Biscuit Joiner

[Doug Canada]

Is there an alternative to a "biscuit Joiner"?

Can a Spiral Saw (Roto Zip) be used with an attachment on it?

Thanks,
Doug

.

[mmd]

Dowells (drill press, hand drill w/ jig)
Blind splines (table saw, router)
Blind dovetails (router w/ jig, hand chisel & saw)

[Mrleft8]

If you have a router, you can use a "wing cutter" or "slot cutter" on your router, and get perfectly acceptable biscuit slots (Assuming you get the proper size cutter).

[Charlie Santi]

I have always used dowels never got into biscuits.

[Graham Knight]

We use one of THESE (http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=22983&recno=1) at work, mounted in the table router, it works perfectly well at a fraction of the price of a biscuit jointer, assuming you already have a router of course!

[merlinron]

any one of the wing bits for a router will work great for making biscuit/spline pockets. granted, with it mounted in a table,you can get very nicely matched surfaces on straight pieces. but it's hard to beat the ease and portability of a good biscuit joiner. depending on shop size and work piece size, sometimes it'e easier to bring the tool to the piece than the piece to the tool. also, if you have a long mitered joint a router with a wing bit or in a table requires that you make a jig to hold either the piece or the router at the correct angle to bisect the miter joint, with a biscuit joiner, you just set the fence at the right angle and cut your pockets, much easier and with a little attention to holding the tool consistantly, get almost as good match up. for particularly difficult cuts, one trick is to clamp the joiner's fence to the piece with a squeeze clamp.

[capt jake]

I've used the wing cutters on a router with the matching fence and found them somewhat less than satisfactory.

Once my wife bought me a bisquit cutter, I wondered why I never bought it earlier. I don't use it that often, but when I do, it is a real time saver.

On a side note with bisquits, I have found that if the bisquits sit in the shop for a while, they will swell slightly. This makes them too large for the slot. I take them into the house and pace them on a cookie sheet in the oven on 150 for about 20-30 minutes. This dries them enough to fit perfectly into the slot.

[ChuckG]

kinda hard to cut a biscuit slot into the face of a work piece with a router (DAMHIKT). It's also kinda fussy to get the opposing slots perfectly lined up on the router table, I invariably wind up making them a little sloppier than I wish.

Capt Jake, thanks for the tip about baking the biscuits smile.gif

cg

[capt jake]

I invariably wind up making them a little sloppier than I wish. That was my main complaint with the router set up also.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Biscuit joiners are just one of those tools that make the job they do quick, easy, and accurate. Even a cheap Biscuit joiner can do pretty well, the good ones are superb. A cheap one can be had for about 50 bucks. I usually spline stuff on the table saw as a substitute.

[Rick Clark]

Biscuits are the way to go buy one. I put all my ribs together with it and mixed up fiberglass resin a little on the hot side and wood flower to laminate them together' The reason it is stronger then the wood and stronger then any glues you can buy. :D
Just got back from coffee and I should say that it is totally waterproof. You can build things without screws or nails or bolts just clamp and let it cure ;) .

[ 11-27-2005, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Rick Clark ]

[Bob Cleek]

Frankly, I wouldn't use a biscuit on a boat for anything but breakfast, with gravy! Wood on a boat moves with changes in its moisture content. Biscuits aren't designed to do that. Neither are the joints made with them. I have my doubts that Rick's "ribs" are going to last as long as he hopes.

[Rick Tyler]

Bob, biscuits are just splines. Are you also opposed to splines?

[Paul Girouard]

Originally posted by Rick Tyler:
Bob, biscuits are just splines. Are you also opposed to splines?Rick I have to agree with Bob , splines are generally wood , MTL the same type of wood you are jointing , thinner but still real wood . I'd not trust a biscuit joint on more than a light furinture joint . I'd not use biscuits joint on say a bed frame nor a chair , to much stress IMO . Let alone a joint in a boat.

BTW this is what a biscuit is made of , "mostly" , yes you can get metal and plaste biscuits for special apps.

http://www.woodzone.com/articles/biscuit/biscuit_joiner.htm

What are the biscuits made of?
Most biscuits are made from compressed beech shavings stamped out into an oval pattern. Glue in the joint soaks into the biscuit causing it to swell and tighten up in the joint.

[Rick Tyler]

I wouldn't use biscuit joinery on the planks of a hull, and I'm not sure how they'd be used on frames. I have used them to align flat panel glue-ups on canoe decks without any problem (so far), and I wouldn't hesitate to use them on internal cabinetry and such.

I once tried using biscuits to connect the aprons of a small toddler table to the legs. It was a disaster -- the kids put enough pressure on the legs to shatter the biscuits. I replaced them with floating tenons.

One of Bob's comments struck me as odd. He railed against biscuits because of wood movement. Any glued joint is going to have this problem whether you use biscuits or not. Glued splines would cause the same problem. As long as you understand wood movement, neither biscuits or full-length spline is going to cause a problem.

[Paul Girouard]

The ultimate testing ground , KIDS STUFF smile.gif They can tear it up if anyone can :rolleyes:

I'd think a spline of the same type of wood it was holding would move more "in tune" with the wood than a pressed biscuit. Just MO , btw ;)

And ya I'm talking structural joints , light joints ,not under stress, biscuits would be ok / fine.

[ 11-28-2005, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: Paul Girouard ]

[Bill Perkins]

I've had good success with a 1/4 in. winged slotting bit ,using a good grade of matching ply for the splines . The splines are ripped with the face grain perpendicular to their length .Those of us using a router may as well run continuous grooves for splines rather than a series of daps for biscuits in many cases I think .

I have used the biscuits with matching router bit but it's inelegant because the radius of the cutter is much less than that of the biscuit .You have to make the slot longer than the biscuit so it will fully seat .The glue will fill the resulting voids , we hope . I avoid this by grinding down or bandsawing the tips of the biscuits to approximate the radius of my cutter , but this is a time consuming nuisance .

I made a cedar deck about 15 years ago . It was built for a friend so I still see it occasionally .It has a 2by6 laid flat run around its perimeter that miters together at the corners .I ripped splines out of the cedar for this severe exposure and glued the joints up with plastic resin glue .All the joints are as tight as the day I made them . The Southern Summer is made up of some wicked soak and quick dry cycles , and these pieces are out there 365 days a year .Plus people are tromping on them year round . It's a more severe exposure than on many boat pieces .At least those get covered in the off season .

[ 11-28-2005, 05:28 AM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[Ron Williamson]

Paul G
Most biscuits are NOT made from beech shavings.
They are stamped from beech lumber with the grain oriented at 45 degrees.
Break one and see.
R

[Mrleft8]

A few years back FWW did an article on biscuit joints, and determined (as best I can remember) that biscuit joints were stronger than dowel joints, and nearly as strong as
a 1/4" mortise and tennon joint.

[gjordan456]

I have a dedicated trim router setup w/ a 3 wing slotting cutter with bearing in it ( porter cable trim router 119.00 slotting cutter 15.00 ) It's a cheap alternative to a expensive plate joiner and it works just as well if not better, you can buy the pre-fabed "footballs" or you can make your own. The one nice thing about a plate joiner is you can slot splayed or mitered stock with it, which works great when lining up miters but this can also be done on a table saw, IMHO the integrity of the joint is in proper glue up, clamp pressure, temp, and choice of glue for the application at hand.