Simplicity (an ode to the handcranked car window)

[ishmael]

How many here have electric windows in their cars? When I was doing my various dances trying to get this Corolla up to snuff I drove loaners and rentals from the Toyo dealer. All of them had electric windows. I didn't like them, probably because I didn't have the cars long enough for them to become easy to use.

My first, and only extensive, experience with electric windows was in my grand-pop's last car, a '61 Cadillac coupe. Pretty fun as a kid, but don't they go wonky with some regularity, the window either refusing to roll up, or roll down?

This Corolla has window cranks, and no other frills either. No anti-locks, no cruise control(a thing I'm gonna miss). Now that I've got the motor sorted out, I think it's going to be a solid little car for a few years.

Just musing on gadgets and complexity. One of the reasons I bought this car was that it didn't have a lot of gadgets. Less to go wrong(I'm starting to mimic my father, oh no! LOL). When a window refuses your command to go up or down, particularly a driver's side front, but any other that refuses to go up because of a short or a bad motor, doesn't that just ruin your whole day? Take it to the shop, that will be three hundred smackers to make your window go up again.

I'll exercise my elbow and wind a crank any day. Asking just in fun. The electric windows in that Caddy were pretty cool to a kid.

[Bruce Hooke]

I've got hand cranked windows on my Ford Escort and I like it that way, but I suspect hand crank windows will be harder and harder to find. On the other hand, I bet the electric version is getting a lot more reliable as cars in general get more reliable and as electric windows move from being a novelty to a standard item.

[PatCox]

OK, Ted.

[Popeye]

they don't put in a simple way to get the window up if (when) the motor or switch fails , how hard can it be to have a small port in the door panel , reach in with a socket wrench and turn .. duh

had a honda prelude once with electric pop-up headlights , and yes , indeed if the motorized version failed there was a simple crank right-there-behind the headlight , you could turn it with an allen key (provided in the tool kit btw) to get the lights up

[cs]

Sometimes you are in the driver's seat and you need to roll down the passenger window. Electric is nice for that.

Chad

[LeeG]

aint nuthin like a 90's american car with busted electric windows. My daughters '92 station wagon has one,,one functioning electric window. Maybe they've made them more reliable since then.

[Paul Pless]

i thought odes were sposed to be lyrical

[Norman Bernstein]

I've had electric windows in all my cars since at least the early 80's, and I like the convenience.... I appreciate being able to roll down the passenger side window for better ventilation without having to reach over and crank.

However, I'll admit that when they break, they're very expensive to fix. The dirver's side window crapped out on my 99 Accord last year, and the tab to fix it was over $350. The drivers side back seat window is making noises now.... so i'm trying to avoid lowering it at all.

[ishmael]

Yeah, I'm the next Ted, Pat. What's your address again? I have a special present just for you.

That, as you well know, or should after our long cyber-association, is a bit of dark humor.

I'm not anti-technology. I think we need to press forward with all due speed and figure out more copacetic, elegant solutions to things. I'm not sure electric windows in cars are an improvement.

Bruce,

While I'm sure they are more reliable now than in '61, when one fails it can be a major bummer. To be fair, the driver's side front in my Mazda pickup, a cranked window, was a PITA. In cold weather something got all tangled up in there and stopping for a quick forty from the ATM meant getting out of the truck because the damn window just froze up. I had a Porsche 914, for a total of a week and half, with cranked windows that were junk. Being inquisitive and into working on such things back then I opened up the doors to have a look see and try to fix it. A nightmare of cheaply made parts, though not inexpensive to buy the parts to fix it. I ended up putting sticks in there to keep the windows up.

Again, just musing in fun, though when the windows in your car don't work it can seem pretty serious for a bit.

Lighten up, Pat.

[PatCox]

I am so lightened up that I am giggling, Ish, just thinking about an anti-technology post on the internet. There should be an internet anti-technology bulletin board, with videoconferenced chatrooms!

[LeeG]

can we post about composting heads?

[PatCox]

I use oil lamps on my boat for light, exclusively. Can't read the GPS without them.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

A joke from my adolescence in the Sixties.

A chauffeur driven Rolls-Royce pulls up at a traffic light.

A tramp knocks on the window.

Plutocrat inside presses button; window goes down.

"Can yer loan us a tanner fer a cuppa tea, Guv?"

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be! - Shakespeare!"

Presses button, window goes up.

Tramp knocks on window again.

Plutocrat presses button; window goes down...

"****! - DH Lawrence!" :D

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Good ones Pat. :D :D :D

I like power windows but I do miss little vent windows and ooh floor mounted high beam switch you can activate with your foot. Nothing like negotiating a tight twisty road with both hands on the wheel and just a click of the foot to turn your high beams. Now you have to let go with your left hand to dim the high beams for an oncoming car. :(

[Norman Bernstein]

Good ones Pat. :D :D :D

I like power windows but I do miss little vent windows and ooh floor mounted high beam switch you can activate with your foot. Nothing like negotiating a tight twisty road with both hands on the wheel and have to let go with your left hand to dim the high beams for an oncoming car.

You remember floor mounted high beam switches? Gawd, you're such an old fart, Joe! :D:D:D

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

You remember floor mounted high beam switches? Gawd, you're such an old fart, Joe! :D:D:D

My first car had em I believe ;)

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m320/fosterhere/IMG_0545.jpg

God I miss that car :(

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=68910

[Norman Bernstein]

My first car had em I believe ;)


Hmmm...seems damned unlikely to me. I'm 55, started driving in 1969, and those floor switches were gone by the time I started. My first car was a 62 Chevy, and I don't recall it having a floor switch (But I remember my father's 55 Buick having one).

I could be wrong, though.....

[Paul Pless]

Floor dimmers were still being used in the mid seventies, I had a 1976 Ford Truck that had that switch.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Hmmm...seems damned unlikely to me. I'm 55, started driving in 1969, and those floor switches were gone by the time I started. My first car was a 62 Chevy, and I don't recall it having a floor switch (But I remember my father's 55 Buick having one).

I could be wrong, though.....

Had em also on my '76 Jeep Cj-5

[Norman Bernstein]

Interesting history of auto accesories... didn't really answer the floor dimmer switch, but you might find it interesting:

http://www.motorera.com/history/hist11.htm

[Paul Pless]

Nothing like negotiating a tight twisty road with both hands on the wheel and just a click of the foot to turn your high beams. Now you have to let go with your left hand to dim the high beams for an oncoming car. :(Does this in any way explain your inability to keep your cars shiny side up last year?;):p


let me throw in a few extra smilies here so you know I'm just joking with you:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Found it for a 61 GTO


C40008388 1961-61 Grommet, Dimmer Switch, for carpet application, 2 3/4” W flange for stitching, 1” hole for dimmer switch, for closed bodies $6.50/ea

http://www.pontiacparts.net/pimages/fs_C40008388.jpg

http://www.pontiacparts.net/tempest/default.htm

Can't seem to find it for a 69 though :(

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Hand cranked windows? Power windows? When I drove my 1964 2CV, I just flipped the windows up, and hoped they didn't come loose and smack my arm. When the six volt battery died, I just stuck the hand crankin the middle of the cooling fan, fired 'er up.

http://users.skynet.be/vincent.beyaert/V2004/MOD_AZC1966b.jpg

There's your ode to simpicity. :D

Got to qote you Fred or POOF it's gone. ;)

[Popeye]

i once had a hand crank in my car , but that's a different story

[ishmael]

Why back when I was young...!

My mother's cars, the family car, was always a Chevy station wagon. They had the floor dimmer switch, as did the '72 F-100 Ford pickup, the second vehicle I owned. Pop's car for many years was a VW bug, with the dimmer on a stalk off the steering column. Push it back and forth and the lights went up and down, push it up and down and the wipers went. IIRC, the first car I owned, another 72, a Toyota Corolla(great little car btw) had a similar arrangement to the bug.

Taking your hands off the wheel to dim the lights, Joe? How many years have you been driving?

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

They stopped putting dimmer switches on the floor because the road salt from your shoes would rust them and then knock out the switch.
Up here in the North anyway.


My 73 F-100 (effy as Shane would say) had the switch on the floor.
Had to replace it a few times.


My 91 Taurus has manual window cranks but the lady I bought it from, special ordered it that way.

I miss the vent windows too.
Especially if the A/C doesn't work.

[PatCox]

I remember little vent doors in front, down by your outboard foot when you are sitting in the front seat. Open the little door and you got outside air blowing in.

[Norman Bernstein]

Does anyone remember when windshield wipers were operated by manifold vacuum? When you accelerated, they'd slow down! :D

[PatCox]

I had onions tied to my belt, which was the fashion at the time. Anyway, I was going to take the ferry to Shelbyville to buy a walking bird, which was what we used to call turkey.

[bamamick]

Dodge dealership and told the lady that waited on me that I wanted a pickup truck with no electronic gadgets on it whatsoever. A radio would be nice, but not necessary. No heater or air conditioner. No power anything. This was to be a work truck and frills were not needed. She just laughed. 'Well, I guess that we could order you something but there's no telling how long it'll take to get it here' was her reply. Needless to say I compromised, but the memory of driving around with wooden wedges holding up the car windows stayed fresh in my mind from an earlier vehicle that I had owned and was not able to afford the small motor replacement that was needed when they failed on me.

I have a high end Ford truck and my wife drives a newer model Volvo wagon now (I also keep a little VW GTI as an extra car). I've got so many sensors and bells and whistles that it's unbelieveable on this stuff. I don't like all of that nor do I need it. On the other hand, the quality on these cars is very fine. Go drive a car from the '60's again and see how quiet or smooth the ride is. When I was a kid I had a '65 Mustang, and if I hadn't known how to stop and dry out my points I wouldn't have been on the road very much in our wet climate. Haven't had to do that sort of thing for awhile.

I admit that our 'need' for advantages and luxury in our automobiles is somewhat ridiculous, but overall we are getting a much higher quality product than anything we have had before (imo).

Mickey Lake

[John B]

What about that automated advance on the distributor stuff.. whats with that? springs and vacuum and suchlike. Gee, my first car had it on the column like an indicator switch ,and if you got it wrong the neighbours came out to look.

[hokiefan]

They stopped putting dimmer switches on the floor because the road salt from your shoes would rust them and then knock out the switch.
Up here in the North anyway.


My 73 F-100 (effy as Shane would say) had the switch on the floor.
Had to replace it a few times.


My 91 Taurus has manual window cranks but the lady I bought it from, special ordered it that way.

I miss the vent windows too.
Especially if the A/C doesn't work.

Vent windows for when the AC breaks??? Around here, if the AC breaks you roll down all four windows all the way and pray you don't have to stop at any lights!!! Or beg your wife to borrow her car for the errand:D.

Vent windows might be nice in the winter though.

I started driving in the mid 70's and remember the dimmer switch on the floor in several cars, early 70's Ford Galaxy, and mid 70's Dodge Darts. And in my first car, a 1980 Pontiac Sunbird. Not the greatest car in the world, but man I sure enjoyed it. Fun times in your first car.:)

Bobby

[TimH]

my Ranger has em. And I like em. No need for lectric windows...how lazy do they think we are?

[ishmael]

Geez Norman, you remember vacume run windshield wipers? You ARE a geezer! LOL.

One last memory about that Porsche. I was still wet behind the ears and bought it on retained adolescent impulse. A stupid little car, if fun to drive. I sold it when a week in the windshield wiper motor crapped the bed and I found you had to pull the fuel tank to replace it. Sold it to another kid wet behind the ears who was just back from a six month civilian stint at McMurdo in Antarctica. They say almost everyone goes a little mad after six months down there. He was ripe with cash, and even nuttier than I was. I saw him one time after the sale and the entire little cab of that buggy was full of stuffed toy penguins, a nice variety, various sizes. Went up to say hi, how's it going, and he stuck a penguin in my face that squawked when he squeezed a rubber bulb. I think more people were eating LSD back then.

And I agree Micky. My first car, a six hundred dollar Toyota Corolla, was a dependable little beast, the Japanese answer to the VW bug, but comparing comfort and ergonomics to this current Corolla is comparing night and day.

Fun stories, gents. Pat, go pound sand.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Ford of Britain loved vacuum operated wipers.

They were still putting them on the Ford Anglia in the Sixties.

[ishmael]

I think the vacume operated wiper went out in the fifties here in the states. I never had personal memory of it, but it was standard on pre-war cars.

A funny quirk on dad's VW bug. The pressure to spray windshield fluid came from the spare tire not an electric motor, a hose running from the tire which was stored up front.Oh, those Germans!

[rbgarr]

I'd be dead from second hand cigarette smoke if it weren't for the old vent windows. That one on the driver's side of my Dad's car was opaque due to his chain smoking.

Better than roll down windows was the flip down windshield on our '47 Jeep and the safari wind screens my brother put on his VW bus. Talk about the wind in your hair. I had tears in my eyes!

[ahp]

You guys don't know what hard is. Before automatic transmissions, before turn signals, you cranked the window down, down shifted, stuck you hand out and signaled, and steered around the corner, all at once.

[rbgarr]

and double clutched and drank Nehi and swotted skeeters and ate roadkill and washed and waxed your own car and operated the gas pump and plugged tire punctures and crank started.... ;)

It's amazing we got where we were going!

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

I had a Citroen Visa - which had hand cranked windows - which went backwards.

[Steve Paskey]

I've never had a problem with electric windows, but I'm sympathetic to Ish's thoughts about simplicity. I appreciate things that are durable, well-made, easy to repair, and not needlessly complex. Most stuff sold these days isn't.

I still remember when I broke the mirror on my '68 Ford Falcon. I don't think I spent more than $15 on a replacement mirror, and installed it myself. Similar story with the starter: the price of a rebuilt one was reasonable, and any fool could've installed it -- loosen two or three bolts, drop the old unit, reverse.

On the other hand, the first time someone knocked off the power mirror on my 1998 Subaru a few years back, it cost *$300* to have it replaced. The second time it happened (in the same winter, no less), I drove around with it duck-taped in place for a couple of months, then paid a different mechanic $50 to stick it on more securely with drywall screws. That held just fine until I sold it two years later.

[Old Sailor]

I'm the crank in my car.
Old Sailor

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

When I was nearly new, my father's Austin Cambridge had a crank; I remember it being used in good earnest on at least one occasion. It was many decades later that I understood why my parents called it "the family car" - my arrival had led to the sale of an Alvis two seater!

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I just remembered a hysterical story about growing up with hand crank windows in my dads car. He would pick up my great grandmother in the Bronx in some old 4 door, it was in the 60's so there was nothing but hand crank. I would usually be sitting in the back passenger side seat. My great grandmother in the front passenger seat. She had a nasty habit of hocking a loogie and spitooning it out the window. At a certain speed the loogie would fly out the window and then come back in through the back-seat window. :eek::eek: So I remember when hearing my great grandmother start haaaaaaaaack haaaaaaaaaaack I would start rolling up that hand crank window as fast as I could PITOOOOOIE >>> out would fly the loogie and sure enough Splat it would hit the rear window just in time ;) :D Ahhh fond memories ;)

She also had a fondness for great grandma kisses where she SMACK KISS you in your EAR causing momentary deafness in all her great grandchildren :eek: :D

[Milo Christensen]

Great story Joe! Man, I needed a laugh this morning.

I remember Grandpa driving the big ole Buick with a chaw stuffed in his cheek. Dad in shotgun, me in the middle. Women -- Grandma, Mom, two sisters --stuffed in the back seat. Sunday drive, Iowa summer. Windows rolled down, Grandpa hawking, ptooie, hittin' Grandma smack in the face.

[geeman]

I owned several cars that had a floor dimmer switch.I can remember a cple of times having to replace the dimmer switch,because of water damage.Having said that I'd much rather take 5 minutes to replace a floor dimmer as opposed to having to replace a column dimmer switch.
Electric windows? not for me. Id rather crank em the old fashioned way.The very small problem of having to reach over to crank down the right side window isnt worth the cost of replacing all that lectric gadgit stuff in there.
In fact, when I'm car shopping one of my "have to haves" is no electric windows, door locks etc.

[ishmael]

Lord, spitting so it comes back into the car. Yuck. This Corolla has a cigarette burn or two frum a wayward cigarette ash that made it from the front seat, out the window, to the back. If you're riding in the back you can always smash them out. What do you do with a gob of spittle?

Yuck.

[pipefitter]

The handles on hand cranks strip out too. Not good if it is the post that strips and not the handle. The modern windows motors are really a long lasting piece of equipment but the plastic drive cogs will dry out and crack into little pieces if you "don't" use the windows but are a easy to repair. Ever notice the window used the most operates freely? It's good to open and shut all the windows periodically,make sure the weather stripping doesn't become hard or brittle as well. It's actually a good idea with hand crank windows too.

My Bronco has the wing windows and the floor side vents. Nothing like pulling the cable and have leaf bits come flying out.

Edited to add: there is no side floor vents on the bronco that are activated with a cable. There is a trap door that you have to reach under and unfasten a latch and open the door.

Also,I had a 65 rambler that had vacuum wipers.

[pipefitter]

Somehow,the visual of the smaller vise grips clamped to a window crankshaft will not escape me.
The rambler I had(antique when I got it) was a sweet running little machine. The vacuum wipers were definitely not designed for FL.

[rbgarr]

I hate it when the windows freeze shut from a winter ice storm. Hand cranks will bust if forced. Electrics don't in that situation. During my driving history/memory (half century?) I've seen more problems with hand crank side windows than electric except for the electric windows in station wagon tailgates.

[Caleb Chia]

What happens if you put a turbo on a car with vacuum wipers? Will they run backwards?

I also hate electric windows. The motors are never strong enough! Three of my family's cars had windows jam at some time. But the worst thing is the automatic transmissions. Of course they're easier to drive, but only give you a crude control over your engine revs, they're more complex, use more fuel, you can't push start an automatic car, you can't rev up the engine before accelerating, and they're boring to drive, which can cause you to fall asleep behind the wheel..:mad:

[rbgarr]

... and they're boring to drive, which can cause you to fall asleep behind the wheel..:mad:

LOL.

"Well, Officer... if only I weren't so bored I wouldn't have run over that kid on the bike. Stupid automatic transmission. It made me do it."

;)

[amcvt]

Here's my old girl. She's about as simple as they come but classy as can be (in my humble opinion). 1961 Chevy Biscayne, almost completely original. No power brakes, no power steering, no power windows or locks, no AC, no oil filter, no clock, no automatic transmission. She does have the optional "Deluxe" heater installed though, lol.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa207/amcvt/HPIM0352.jpg

Al

[Kevin G]

My first four cars had foot operated high beams, foot operated starters and crank down windows. #1 1940 Ford 4 door sedan, later outfitted with '57 Chevy engine, #2 1936 Chevy Deluxe 4 door sedan with "Knee action" shocks, mohair-type upholstery and split crankout window in the back seat, #3 1940 Plymouth 4-door flathead six. Next was a '38 Ford 4 door sedan with crank out everything, including the front windshield. Put a '55 Chevy in that.Then I "graduated" to a 1952 MGTD which had (and still has) nothing.