Hull refinishing

[alws55]

Hello all !!......This is my 1st post...I'm glad I found this forum...I just sold my '59 16 ft Lyman and aquired a '58 16 ft....I just removed the windsheild and and am planning on flipping it over to get serious stripping the hull....I have 5 laps or so done ....I really don't believe it needs any work on the lapstrakes its really in good shape for a '58....

I seeking any pointers if anyone specializes in this area or has done it before.I'm very exp. in wood working and have stripped countless pcs. of furniture...are primers necessary? Is marine paint necess. if it will be trailered? I noticed the filler is coming off some of the countersunk nail heads. These will have to be gone over again. Do the copper nailheads have to be sealed to prevent any oxidation or whatever that is that happenes to copper after time?....thanks for any replies...E mail me for pics.

Frank

[ 08-21-2004, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: alws55 ]

[alws55]

No help??.........I'm sure someone has been here before.........thanks for the replies......

[Stiletto]

I have found that when refinishing , if the old paint is really hard to get off you might as well leave it there and feather the edges. If the paint is sticking that well, nothing is to be gained by removing it.

[S/V Laura Ellen]

When you re-paint, look for a system from a major paint company and stick with it. The system should have fillers, primer, top coat and thinners that are guaranteed to be compatible.
Interlux (as I'm sure do most paint companies)has a technical support number that is a good source of information and should be able to answer any questions that you may have.

Good luck on the project.
Allan

[TimothyB]

Then again, you could call George Kirby ( http://www.kirbypaint.com/ ). He's an expert on coatings, mostly traditional type oil based paint systems but I'm sure he is knowledgable in many other areas. He could give you professional advice, and will too. Very personable and easy to talk to.

[alws55]

WOW....The paint is peeling and chipping ,its been painted over the same way it looks now....I now have starboard side done bow to stern....I used paint stripper for the 1st 4 or 5 boards...then I flipped it over, and I'm using a belt sander....I find there is quite a lot of paint I'm leaving due to excellent adhesion. I priced primer and finish paint about a 100.00 a gallon...the primer is designed to hide inperfections in the surface and the finish is a white polyurathane(sp?)...I guess for best protection its the way to go....

What about a wood filler to cover screw holes where the filler has shrunk and fell out?....if the paint seals like it should any high grade filler should do....correct??.......thanks for the help !!

[Bob Cleek]

Like they said in another post... check the FAQ... it's a goldmine!

From FAQ:

SANDING AND PAINTING
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do go back and check out the past posts... but, I'll do it once again for old time's sake.
Sand her very fair, preferably to bare wood. Soak her in CPES. This product, by Smith and Company, is the only thing to use. DO NOT use thinned hard epoxy. Use CPES. (A little goes a LONG way. Ask Smiths how much. Check the posts on CPES in here... there's a million of them.) The same day, spray Interlux or Z Spar white undercoat. (If you paint over CPES within about 36 hours, you will get a molecular bond between the penetrating epoxy sealer and the paint and it will stick like nobody's business... this you want.) This stuff has talcum or whatever in it and it will fill some and also sand easily. Spray, because otherwise, you will have nothing but brush strokes with this stuff, or else, you will have to thin it so much that you will have to put fifty coats on to get where you need to go. Use a decent Binks spray rig, or the equivalent. Start working around the hull until you CAN'T SEE ANYTHING BUT SNOW WHITE. If you spray, it should dry by the time you work around to the start and you can just keep going without down time waiting for it to dry. (Wear sunglasses or you will go snow blind... no kidding!) Remember this... and repeat it like a mantra... "My enamel will NOT cover... My enamel will NOT cover..." Believe me, it will not. That's the base coat's job.
Now, when it's all white, go over the hull with Z Spar Dual Purpose Surfacing Putty or the equivalent, filling EVERY little bit of grain and divit. Then sand again with 120, working down to 220. Make sure the surfacing putty isn't standing proud anywhere. Repeat this mantra at this point..."Every imperfection WILL show... Every imperfection WILL show..." They will. When it is perfectly smooth and there are no dings or anything left to fill with the surfacing putty... and you now know how important that first sanding step was way back when... Spray it with more undercoat, repeating the "My enamel will NOT cover.." mantra. The previous sanding will likely have raised spots that show through, you see.
Now, sand carefully with 220, working down to 320. Use your compresson to blow off all the dust. Then tack thoroughly.
If you want a really decent job and you aren't an experienced painter, find one to help you on the next step... it's important. Mix your enamel. You have to consider the temperature, humidity and phase of the moon. Add Flood's Penetrol to promote leveling. Add the proprietary thinner for hot or cold weather (fast or slow drying). How much is where the experience comes in. If you are someplace like Kansas where they don't have boat painters, maybe you can ask a professional painter, or if all else fails, practice a bit on some scrap wood until you feel competent. (A BAD topside enamel job is a sad, sad, sight!) Your enamel should be about the consistency of light cream or half and half. Now tack again. Kill a chicken as an offering to the topsides gods. Use a good brush that's the right size... six inches at least... (forget that roller and tipping off BS)... keep a wet edge, work fast and let the paint level itself. Put as much on as you can without starting curtains. Work out of a big cardboard bucket. Your arm will love you for this and you won't get paint all over. (If you haven't learned to paint, get a book on the subject and "brush up" on it! No offense, but about one guy in ten who works on his own boat knows how to use a brush properly.) Let it dry. Brush off all the bugs that landed on it. (DO NOT try to remove them when the paint is wet! TRUST ME.)
Now, sand lightly with 320. Put on more surfacing putty on the spots you missed if you have to. (There always seem to be one or two.. it's that snow blindness thing.) If you do this, lay a light coat of basecoat on the putty spot. Sand it smooth and put a light coat of enamel on the patched spot. Sand that along with the enameled hull. (If you just put another coat of enamel on top of the putty, you will get a dull spot there.) Blow and tack and so on. Put on another coat of enamel. Pray that that one looks okay. If not... go for another. At some point, you will either be satisfied or get tired and consider it done. If all else fails, tell yourself you will do better next haul out! LOL OH... and have fun doing it. This is one of the most satisfying parts of the game. Nothing makes me feel better than having my boat in the yard with a brand new topside job and watching the plastic boaters come up and ask me what kind of gelcoat polish I use! LOL

BTW... if you are stripping paint... try a heat gun and a sharp scraper instead of stripping goop. The heat guy will pay for itself. You don't have to mess with the nasty mess... dry scrapings just sweep up. Most importantly, most all liquid strippers will leave some residue which seems to negatively impact adhesion. And PULEEZE... take it easy with the belt sander! Not the tool for removing paint. Maybe, only maybe if you are careful, you can use one for smoothing after the paint is stripped, but they can get away from you and destroy the surface.

[R Joynt]

Where in Ohio are you? I'm just finishing a 16-1/2 Lyman. I'm on east of Cleveland. There is also the Lyman Boat Owners Association for information.

Bob

[alws55]

Thanks Bob..much appreciated.....I started with the heat gun, it is great but the time factor headed me in a different direction. The belt sander is working great, its a 3" x 9" which is easy to control. I'd like to float her this fall perchin on Lake Erie.

RJ I'm on the westside.....Berea.

[warthog5]

Hmmmmmm! I read all of that and didn't see a thing about adding a guide coat or blocking it by hand to get a stright boat to paint.
If it's Black it better be Stright. This is Awlgrip.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Warthog5/P1010154.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Warthog5/P1010153.jpg

And the scary hand pix to show reflection.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Warthog5/P1010265.jpg

Here's the woodenBoat.
http://www.troutwagon.com/Nautical/SwampWitch/SwampWitch5.htm

http://www.troutwagon.com/Nautical/SwampWitch/images/fb202224.jpg

[ 08-27-2004, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: warthog5 ]

[Big Red]

Gee Warthog, shes beautiful smile.gif Bet you won't be draggin her up the beach.

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

I'm restoring a 1961 16' Lyman.
I live in Amherst,Ohio.
e-mail me if you need a hand with anything.
ref343@yahoo.com

Some good Lyman info on Tom Karoknay's site.
www.lymanboat.com (http://www.lymanboat.com)

I would only use an orbital sander on a plywood boat so I wouldn't sand through the thin veneer of the top layer. Don't take off more paint than you have to, only whats loose or covering the fasteners.
Expose the fasteners at the laps. Tighten the bronze screws (replace the spinners with a larger screw),screws go into the frames and re-clinch the copper clinch nails with a hammer & punch on outside of boat and bucking iron on the inside to peen over the nail. This tightens the laps between the frames. Do this first before you fill anything or paint. ;)

Mine currently doesn't look like this....

http://www.lymanboat.com/ulrich.jpg

:D

[ 08-28-2004, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Frank.....Thanks for the e-mails with the photos. smile.gif
Looking forward to meeting you and your brother in law and seeing your Lyman boat.
~Kevin~

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid137/p99b725c1ba5eb21b87937ee1a6f6f206/f73c23e7.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid137/pf46186b0572cfda96197741c50bcc820/f73c23e9.jpg

[ 08-29-2004, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[alws55]

Thanks Kevin......spent the day finish sanding one side and I have about 1/3 of the screws tightened...every screw turned 1/4 to a full turn before seating...

Theres a 1 x 2 ft area where the trailer bunk made a depression in the hull...any recommendations on how to push this back down...I know it will take time by possibly weighting the area from the inside...I'll use a different trailer so this area is not supported...

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

I have exactly the same problem with my Lyman and have come to the conclusion(after talking to some of the guys here) that cutting out the bad spot and scarphing some new planking in ,is the quickest and probably the best solution. All the other solutions take time and aren't a sure fix. What kind of plywood is your boat made from? It looks like Douglas Fir in the photos.

[alws55]

I imagine it is D-fir..........there isn't a soft piece if planking on this boat....I think I might try weight over the winter ......then decide what to do if it doesn't work......When are you planning on doing yours?

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

I've been planning on finishing this dang boat for 3 years now but I keep running out of money and life keeps getting in the way. :D

In a way it's kind of a good thing because I've learned alot from the truly wise ones here on the forum in the last few years about how to go about it. If I had gone ahead with my original ideas, I would have really screwed things up. I fell in love with wooden boats before I really knew what I was doing. I'm not really a know it all and I still learn something new everyday.

[ 08-30-2004, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]