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Sailing-Randy
11-30-2001, 02:17 PM
After my last post I am almost afraid to come back on for fear of being laughed off.

I am looking at the Black Swan 22' gaff cutter by Selway Fischer. I was hoping to see one up close before making a final decision, but was told by Paul Fischer that no one in the states has built one yet. Soooo, I was wondering...

For those of you who have built a Selway-Fischer boat, what has been your experience? Have the plans been easy to work from? So far the rsponses have been very timely and quick - I like that.

As an aside, I like Black Swan for the length, generous head room, gaff sail, strip-plankable and trailerable, though not a day sailer. Paul doesn't know anyone who has rigged her for single handling, but didn't see why it couldn't be done. Could you suggest another design along these advantages?

Fire away! I am looking for stories from experience and opinions.

I'll just stand stand here quietly in the corner waiting for responses.

BTW, I will be out of overnight doing a reward for my 8th grader making the A honor roll. (I'm glad someone got some brians in this family besides his mother)
Randy

garland reese
11-30-2001, 03:16 PM
www.golantgaffer.co.uk (http://www.golantgaffer.co.uk)

Here is a nice gaff cutter. She's a bit smaller than 22 (18.5), but is supposed to be nicely roomy for two. Very pretty boat. It sounds as though there have been a number built too, but I don't know where. I love this boat, but I don't think she'd be easy to trailer.......certainly easier than the 22 footer, I'd think, but no daysailer either. She is set up to be easily sailed shorthanded though (methinks).
I hope this helps. Another thought; Check out Norm's Farne Islander (several threads here on the forum). That is an Iain Oughtred design, and a very nice one. Norm did a very fine job of her too. Norm is a "Husker" as well......you might see him out there on the prairie water sometime. I'm not sure where you live in relation to his location. I think Norm keeps his boat at home and trailers her to sailing destinations.
Are you looking specifically for a gaff cutter? What are the parameters for your search? Will you trailer or keep it in the water for the season (I'm guessing trailering??)?

BTW......what happend to the Huskers with Colorado????? Similar thing happend to the Sooners (though the Sooners have been bound for defeat all season, IMO). Wouldda been nice to se a re-match in the Big 12 Championship though.
Good luck,
Garland

[This message has been edited by garland reese (edited 11-30-2001).]

LarryJacobson
11-30-2001, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by garland reese:
www.golantgaffer.co.uk (http://www.golantgaffer.co.uk)

Here is a nice gaff cutter. She's a bit smaller than 22 (18.5), but is supposed to be nicely roomy for two. Very pretty boat. It sounds as though there have been a number built too, but I don't know where. I love this boat, but I don't think she'd be easy to trailer.......certainly easier than the 22 footer, I'd think, but no daysailer either. She is set up to be easily sailed shorthanded though (methinks).
I hope this helps. Another thought; Check out Norm's Farne Islander (several threads here on the forum). That is an Iain Oughtred design, and a very nice one. Norm did a very fine job of her too. Norm is a "Husker" as well......you might see him out there on the prairie water sometime. I'm not sure where you live in relation to his location. I think Norm keeps his boat at home and trailers her to sailing destinations.
Are you looking specifically for a gaff cutter? What are the parameters for your search? Will you trailer or keep it in the water for the season (I'm guessing trailering??)?

BTW......what happend to the Huskers with Colorado????? Similar thing happend to the Sooners (though the Sooners have been bound for defeat all season, IMO). Wouldda been nice to se a re-match in the Big 12 Championship though.
Good luck,
Garland

[This message has been edited by garland reese (edited 11-30-2001).]

LarryJacobson
11-30-2001, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by garland reese:
www.golantgaffer.co.uk (http://www.golantgaffer.co.uk)

Here is a nice gaff cutter. She's a bit smaller than 22 (18.5), but is supposed to be nicely roomy for two. Very pretty boat. It sounds as though there have been a number built too, but I don't know where. I love this boat, but I don't think she'd be easy to trailer.......certainly easier than the 22 footer, I'd think, but no daysailer either. She is set up to be easily sailed shorthanded though (methinks).
I hope this helps. Another thought; Check out Norm's Farne Islander (several threads here on the forum). That is an Iain Oughtred design, and a very nice one. Norm did a very fine job of her too. Norm is a "Husker" as well......you might see him out there on the prairie water sometime. I'm not sure where you live in relation to his location. I think Norm keeps his boat at home and trailers her to sailing destinations.
Are you looking specifically for a gaff cutter? What are the parameters for your search? Will you trailer or keep it in the water for the season (I'm guessing trailering??)?

BTW......what happend to the Huskers with Colorado????? Similar thing happend to the Sooners (though the Sooners have been bound for defeat all season, IMO). Wouldda been nice to se a re-match in the Big 12 Championship though.
Good luck,
Garland

[This message has been edited by garland reese (edited 11-30-2001).]

Randy,

I can't respond to their gaff cutter but I'm currently building a 24' Snow Bunting Launch using Selway Fisher's lofted plans.

Not only have the plans and associated notes been very helpful but Paul Selway has promptly responsed each time I've emailed a question regarding the construction process.

As a result, I enthusiasticly recommend the Fisher Selway plans- you'll be impressed with them!

Good luck.

Larry

Bob Cleek
11-30-2001, 08:50 PM
You may want to check out Laurent Giles and Associates' stock plans. http://www.laurentgiles.co.uk/

They offer a number of very nice boats designed for "independent builders" (no sense selling ourselves short by calling it anything else!). A number of them are very similar to the boat you are considering. Their thoroughbred reputation is beyond dispute and their service and assistance to those building their boats is legendary. Good folks, good boats.

Sailing-Randy
12-04-2001, 12:29 AM
Thanks for the response Garland, Larry and Bob!

I have considered the Gollant Gaffer and really like the way it looks. However it seems a bit small. I could be wrong since I have never done any cruising, but...

Laurent Giles stock plans are difficult to see. How much is 5.00 (+1.00p&p) anyway to get a copy of their book?

I found some pictures of the Vertue I really like. However, none with a gaff rig even though it was originally designed that way. Is there a web site that would offer more info? Has anyone ordered their plans book? How long does it take to get?

Larry, thanks for the positive comment on Selway Fischer. I also have found them to be prompt in their responses and am glad to hear that is true after the sale.

Thanks,
Randy

Bob Cleek
12-04-2001, 11:09 PM
Run "Vertue" through your web browser and you should find a bunch of sites and a few pictures. There are photos in the Cheoy Lee owners association web site, I believe. The gaff Vertue plans are an option you can order from Giles. They are quite nice, although the jib headed main version sails better. I have one of the latter. Been happy with her for years and years.

I really wouldn't recommend tackling building a Vertue yourself unless you have several years and are a master boatbuilder. The Vertue is a full keeled, deep draft boat and very, very heavy for her size. She is traditionally designed, although I believe that Giles has redeveloped the plans for a strip planked or cold molded version as well. Build as designed, you would have to put as much work into a 25' Vertue as you would a 35' or 45' heavy cruising boat. If you ever get a look at one up close, you'd know what I mean. Trust me. LOL

I believe the current exchange rate is somewhere around $1.50 to the pound, but I could be wrong. 5 pounds should be around 7.50. Order the stock catalog off their web site and use your credit card... they'll figure it out for you. LOL It's worth the few bucks. Lots of pictures and so on. Once you have found a boat or two you like in there, spring for their "study plans," which will give you a lot more information. E-mail Barry Van Geffen, Managing Director, at Giles and he can answer your questions for you. Tell 'em Cleek sent you and that I'm still working on his Dyarchy model! LOL

garland reese
12-04-2001, 11:25 PM
Randy,

Check with Paul Gartside. www.gartsideboats.com (http://www.gartsideboats.com) He has some wonderful gaff rigged designs. There is a 22' double ended gaffer on his web page that might fit the bill. Mr. Gartside is very nice, and can give you some good advice. He may have some ideas for you. He sent me a draft of a beautiful little 16 foot gaffer that is still on the drafting table. It is on my short list. I would love to build a larger boat (20-22'), but the more I think it over, the more I lean toward something less than 20'. You haven't said whether you'll be trailering the boat exclusively or if you just need to trailer on occassion. That would make a difference in the design that you might choose. Trying to trailer a boat that will take lots of time to set up and a large tow vehicle to pull will likely get old pretty fast. Better to build something that you will be inclined to use without having to block out several days to justify the trip. If you'll be cruising with just two, you can get by with something fairly small. Give us more details as to what you're wants, needs, usage intentions, sailing destinations (lakes, rivers, oceans??), etc. are. You will get more advice that way, and you might save yourself some frustration over the long haul. But then maybe you are planning to do some coastal cruising, which you would then need something more comfortable and capable.
Please don't take that statement the wrong way. Ultimately, you know best what you are looking for and what you want. You know better than anyone, what your physical and financial capacities are. Maybe you are an old salt and don't need this advice. But since you are asking, give more details. There are plenty of extremely knowledgeable folks here that can give you good, sound advice.....I'm just giving opinions. Have you looked at Tony Dias' designs?
Hope this helps,
Garland

Sailing-Randy
12-06-2001, 01:50 AM
Hi Cleek and Garland!

I just came home from a disappointing meeting, that's why it's so late, and this little discussion lifted my spirits. Thanks!

Cleek, the Vertue looks good, but your observations scare me. Soooo, on to others. Maybe I'll order their plan book.

Garland, as to the question about needs, this is what I am thinking. I have a pipe dream that may never come to fruition, but I enjoy the trying when it is something like this. In ten years my wife and I will be almost empty nesters. I would like to put a boat in the Missouri River about Sioux City and sail down to the gulf, around Florida, up the coast and back in through the great lakes. Then trailer it back to wherever home will be then. Between building and river launching I plan to keep it on the Lewis and Clark Reservation - 46 square miles of lake.

How's that for dreaming? I want to strip plank, but probably could be convinced to cold mold or carvel, but strip planking is what I am drawn to.

As far phyiscal shape I'm better in that than financial at 47 years old. God provides for my needs and if He is in this, it will happen. I know that sounds lofty and unrealistic, but I am doing good serving a smaller church in a small town. God is good and I am not afraid to do the unconventional. Hey, isn't that pretty true of all boat builders!

I have built a minimalist 15' sailing skiff according to Rabl's design, well it needs finishing touches, and I have learned allot! I would use regular materials even if I got them in unusual ways, such as cutting the trees. However, I am open to ideas.

Thanks, guys!
Randy

Tom Dugan
12-06-2001, 08:44 AM
Well, since you've defined what your needs are, and that happens to be my strong suit (professionally speaking), let's see if I can clarify.

Your boat will need to be:
1) A sea-going vessel although
1a) not necessarily ocean-crossing
2) Trailerable (pretty much knocks out carvel planked from the list)
3)Allow for extended travel (1 week?) for a middle-aged/elderly couple

That's really all you've provided so far, but if you're realistic, you've cut out a lot of designs since you have to satisfy both #1 and #2. Without delving into the discussion above, I'd be looking at a cold-molded or strip-planked centerboarder, maybe 25' or so. You don't make it sound like you'll be doing a LOT of trailering, but you don't want the hassle of oversized and heavy loads when you do. Gartside's #106 that Garland suggested fits the requirements as we see them so far. Selway-Fischer's Black Swan looks interesting, but I don't know how I'd manage that keel on a trailer. Then again, I'm not very trailer-savvy.

Any thoughts? Further needs?

-T

Jack C
12-07-2001, 09:47 AM
Here's my 2.5 cents. If you want standing headroom inside a trailersailor, then build a powerboat.

Since your looking at plywood designs (good idea), check out the Norwalk Islands Sharpie line from Bruce Kirby. I've built the 18, which is a bit smaller than what you're looking for, but check out the 23 and 26. Look at the website at http://pages.slic.com/wempsall/home.htm

Good luck.

Jack

Sailing-Randy
12-07-2001, 10:58 AM
Thanks, Tom, for summerizing where we have come so far. I appreciate the help! Jack and your help is exactly waht I was looking for! Someone to help me ask questions I am missing. What other information would help?

Jack, the Black Swan can be built in either the plywood or the sheathed-strip versions. I want to go the strip version at this point, unless economics clearly push me back to plywood.

Tom, I don't understand the keel issue/trailering since both Gartsides #106 and Black Swan have centerboards. The drafts are 2'1" and 2'5" respectively which doesn't seem like much of a difference to me. I have just sent an email to Paul Fischer asking about trailering, so I will let you know what I find out.

Thanks, guys. Keep the questions and insights coming!
Randy

Tom Dugan
12-07-2001, 11:17 AM
Randy, it just looked like a pretty hefty (ie deep) keel. More than you'd see on, say, a sharpie. Like I said, I'm not very trailer-savvy.

Sorry for the confusion.

-T