What is it?

[Tylerdurden]

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c350/mudhutwarrior/PICT0004.jpg

[Tanbark Spanker]

Big ol' junk rigged hampton boat with a poop deck? Beautiful boat.

[robtcw]

44 foot cat ketch......a really nice cruising liveaboard boat...

[Tanbark Spanker]

Do I see a chine? *squints*

[rbgarr]

Freedom 40, Garry Hoyt/Halsey Herreshoff designed after a hull of his grandfather N.G. Herreshoff (iirc). I saw it on HH's desk when I 'college-interned' with him in the 70s.

Here's one for sale with more info and pics:

http://tinyurl.com/3brbjv

[StevenBauer]

Man, Dave, you're good! Did I call that one, Mark, or what? :D
I told him last week you'd know what it was. :)

Steven

[Tanbark Spanker]

The center cockpit model.

[Tylerdurden]

Man, Dave, you're good! Did I call that one, Mark, or what? :D
I told him last week you'd know what it was. :)

Steven

You did indeed!

[rbgarr]

The price (fruits?) of an unhinged obsession with boats. ;)

[Paul Fitzgerald]

What is the word on those Herreshoff designed cat ketches?
Bob Miller (aka Ben Lexen) designed a knockoff, the Revolution 36 here. They had a bad rep for handling, the windage of the foremast blew the bow off in heavy winds, especially when reefed or under power.
One was lost with all hands somewhere in South Asia.

One or two were converted to a conventional sloop rig.
I always liked the layout and the deck arrangements, and have remained intrigued as the design seems to be popular in the US.

What is the opinion on them as serious cruisers?

[rbgarr]

AFAIK the Freedom line of cruisers switched over to sloop rigs with a 'camber spar' jib in order to keep the simplicity of the unstayed mast and a self tacking jib.
http://i14.tinypic.com/4uymviq.jpg
They sail pretty well from what I've seen, but my reference is mild New England cruising conditions, not offshore, etc.

Hoyt now favors big roach mains and a jib-boom of his own design such as seen on the Alerion 38:
http://i11.tinypic.com/66ab095.jpg
http://i14.tinypic.com/4t7pst0.jpg
I have sailed on one of those and they are speedy, but take some getting used to sail-trim-wise.

[Hwyl]

The suffered from an inability to hoist and lower sails, they had sleeve luffs, like a Laser.

Gary Hoyt was an advertising guy. He made up all kinds of stories to go with this boat (mid 70's), great stories, lots of sizzle, not much steak.

[Ian McColgin]

I've loved the original Freedom 40 since she came out. Sailed a couple and always wanted one to be available when I was available for a price I could afford.

They sail better with the more costly upgrade of a fully battened main in a track.

I had the amusing pleasure a dozen or so years back to sailing about to monitor a Shake-a-Leg race in one that Ev Pearson (the third leg, along with Halsey Herrishoff and Gary Hoyte in developing the F 40) had taken back in trade from a customer - a fameous actor who was trading for a larger boat. We also had Hoyte and one of his sons.

Ev had tricked her out with everything, including a bow thruster, on which Hoyte heaped much good natured scorn. "Why our version didn't even have an engine." At that point Hoyte's son piped up with the whole truth, how his Dad made the boys row these big sweeps while he beat time on some large pots. "The Slave Ship of the Carribian."

One Freedom 40 came past my life twice under successive owners, both times my best guess as the the lowest I could get them was a good $15,000 past my upper limit. Ah well.

I think Hoytes's original idea of great simplicity - perhaps not so extreme as to do without a bit of Detroit breeze - is where it's at.

Hoyte is indeed a marketing genius who introduced color, novelty, and accessability to sailing. Marvelous force in our lives at sea.

[robtcw]

O.K. so I was off by 4 feet.....had a couple of friends that had them and retired to the caribbean...they loved them.

[Tylerdurden]

She did look like she would go nice, Thats why I took a photo.
Gonna have to figure out how to cop a feel of one.

[Uncle Duke]

they had sleeve luffs, like a Laser.
Early ones were actually 'wrap-around', not sleeve - essentially a 2-sided sail which wrapped around the mast. Great aerodynamics but a pain to reef. Wishbone booms provided built-in vanging and great sail shape.
All the later ones had 'conventional' tracked sails with booms and most of the original rigs were converted later, some with 'normal' booms and some with tracked sails retaining the wishbone.
The Freedom 40 was the original design, available with aft-cabin and the much prettier (to my eye) aft-cockpit. It was followed by the F-44, F-33 and F-28 cat-ketches.
Post-that, you got the F-36/38 available as either a cat-ketch or as a sloop. It was a little bow-heavy as a cat-ketch - one owner had Eric Sponberg do a nifty hull-mod to re-work the bow shape:
http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/Wobegonbow.htm
F-39 was also available as cat-ketch or a weird cat-schooner (Ron Holland designs at that point). After those they went to sloop rigs for everything - but still all free-standing carbon-fiber masts. Not cheap.

Full-disclosure - I'm a big fan of the F-33 and almost bought the original cold-molded one which was used as the mold for the 'glass ones. I still have a 40' carbon-fiber mast for a Freedom hanging on my back-fence if anybody needs one...I know that SWMBO is pretty tired of looking at it....:D

[MiddleAgesMan]

The previous post is correct, 2-ply sails wrapped around the aluminum masts. Later models had carbon masts with sails on tracks.

I had an early F-33 with the 2-ply sail. It could be a bear reefing and getting the sail down in a blow but it went like a witch. Another problem was when first setting up to go dead down wind. If you weren't careful the wind could get between the sail's layers and open up the sail. You didn't want that wishbone on the centerline when you turned downwind.

Mine came from the Annapolis area, former name was Homer. We re-named her Polecat.

[MiddleAgesMan]

I always wanted the Freedom 40, settled for a F-33.

You may recall a famous F-40 named Charlie's Crab, owned by a south Florida restauranteur. The boat was in the news a while back, caught in a storm in the Gulf Stream and lost with all hands. The theory was the boat was knocked down and that deep center cockpit filled with water. The companionways were probably open as well. I don't recall if anything was found. The cause was simply speculation, IIRC.

[rbgarr]

I still have a 40' carbon-fiber mast for a Freedom hanging on my back-fence if anybody needs one...I know that SWMBO is pretty tired of looking at it....:D

For the taking? If so, do you know the approximate weight and diameter at the base? Is it a plain spar or does it have a track attached to it? PM me if you want to pursue. Thx-

[Uncle Duke]

PM me if you want to pursue.
Well, not "for the taking", but cheap. Sent you a PM with a promise to send actual specs when I get home, as well as a note on a different issue.