Life Calk

[bischoffboatworks]

Hi all. I decided at the last moment to run a bead of Life Calk along each lap on a 15' Whitehall I am finishing up. I waited 10 days, then put on a coat of PreKoat. It never dried. I wiped it off, and went ahead and put on a coat of enamel. It also never dried. My shop stays around 54 degrees in the winter so I wiped the enamel off the Life Calk and heated the shop up to 68. After 3 days, I can still wipe off paint/Life Calk. Could the problem be I wiped the whole boat off with Mineral Spirits first before the PreKoat? Does Polysulfide get weird around Mineral Spirits? Thanks for any suggestions.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I think it does.

[Thorne]

Very interested in this chemistry issue, as I'm using Vulkem 116 (a polyurethane) for sealing/bedding many different parts on my boat.

Drying time is slow even with no wiping, not sure if it gets longer because I have been using mineral spirits for wiping off certain parts.

If not mineral spirits, would MEK or another solvent be better? (MEK of course used outdoors on a windy day while wearing a respirator)

Read the online pdf instructions which recommend MEK for prep of wet surfaces, but don't say much about wiping or cleanup. Cure time can be 2 weeks+ depending on dampness and temp, so that may be an issue with the polysulfide caulk also.

http://www.tremcosealants.com/commercial/ products/product_detail.asp?id=1 (http://www.tremcosealants.com/commercial/products/product_detail.asp?id=1)

[ 12-15-2005, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Thorne ]

[Gary E]

I have not used that stuff for 20 yrs, what do the INSTRUCTIONS say to use?

[Thorne]

There are a lot of interesting links on the topic of sealants -- and of course many threads on this forum also.

For most of these products, cure time is measured in weeks, not days -- and for the lap sealing, perhaps a polyurethane would have bound tighter and cured a bit faster?

Here's one from a roofing perspective that is very clear -
http://w ww.roofingcontractor.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,3241,142606,00.html (http://www.roofingcontractor.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,3241,142606,00.html)

And a real basic one from the marine perspective -
http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/35.htm

[ 12-15-2005, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Thorne ]

[N. Scheuer]

I always use Mineral Spirits to wipe the base perimeter of fittings bedded in 3M 5200 (polyurethane adhesive sealant) and have never noticed a problem. The 5200 under the fitting seems to cure just as well as if I had just let the "squeexe out" lie there, unwiped.

I've also used Sikaflex (polyurethane sealant) in architectural applications and wiped the squeexe-out with Mineral spirits with no adverse effects.

Moby Nick

[Noah]

Could you have used Life Seal instead of Life Caulk? Life Seal has Silicone in it, and Life Caulk doesn't.

I used it by mistake when someone at the boat store gave me one tube of it along with a few of Life Caulk. It is worth saying that I would like shove said tube of Life Seal...

Anyway, if you did you use the stuff with Silicone it could be that.

[bischoffboatworks]

No, I checked. It was LifeCalk, not Seal. One site I looked at mentioned that polysulfides MIGHT mix with an aromatic solvent. Maybe Mineral Spirits is in that group.

[David McCollum]

I have used two part polysulfides, and applied them to surfaces wetted with solvents (not mineral spirits, but something else even slower drying). It appeared to me that the cure was unaffected by the wet surface. The solvent merely migrated through the bead of sealant and eventually evaporated. I think your problem is just cold temperature. Give it time before you give up.

[pcford]

A guy was doing a deck job on a very large boat here in Seattle. The polysulphide was not drying. It was winter, so he thought he needed more heat. He brought in heaters. Did not dry.

Polysuphide's set-up time is linked to humidity. If you are working in some place that has dry cold winters and if you are working in a place which is heated or semiheated like an attached garage, the air is likely bone dry.

You might try turning off the heat. Also, guys sometimes spray the goop with a fine mist of water to hasten curing.

[bischoffboatworks]

My shop is unheated under my house in Seattle, so humidity is probably not a problem (mold, on the other hand...). But maybe straying a wee bit of additional water on the seams is in order. thanks.

[RodB]

I don't understand why anyone would ever use mineral spirits as a cleaner/degreaser instead of say laquer thinner or acetone..ie., a hotter solvent. Mineral spirits just takes too long to evaporate and I'm not sure it doesn't leave some kind of residue.

I used lifecalk on bedding my poling platform and lean post flanges... and the tube said use laquer thinner to clean up...which I did. Worked great. I used lifecalk because it is sandable and paintable, and is easier to remove later on if you have to redo something...5200 is just too hard to remove unless you have a very specific use for it and don't mind that.

RB

[Jay Greer]

We once used the product "Life Caulk", during a normal haul out for a bottom and topside job on one of our boats. We filled cracked topside seams with the product according to Mfg. recomendations. That S---t took two weeks to dry!! It screwed up our haul out and reaquired a second in and out just to do the topsides. The factory rep was an air head and less than no help at all!!! I could add some descriptions that are not fit to print here! @#!$%^&*(+!!!
Any fool who will use that SH----T has got to have his head in a place where the sun does not shine!!!
Life Caulk may be of use in the marine industry in a place other than on wooden boats. However, I can't think of where that might be unless it may be to bed down the holding tank valve!
JG

[bischoffboatworks]

Other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Actually, I've never used Life Calk before, but used it on the recommendation of Walter Simmons, in his 1983 Lapstrake boatbuilding workshop book from Duck Trap Woodworking. I agree with you and would not use it again, but I'm stuck with it (or spend countless hours trying to get rid of it). So now I've heated up the shop, and spritz the seams with water every few hours. Geez, what an unnecessary setback.

[Gary E]

Originally posted by bischoffboatworks:
Other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Actually, I've never used Life Calk before, but used it on the recommendation of Walter Simmons, in his 1983 Lapstrake boatbuilding workshop book from Duck Trap Woodworking. I agree with you and would not use it again, but I'm stuck with it (or spend countless hours trying to get rid of it). So now I've heated up the shop, and spritz the seams with water every few hours. Geez, what an unnecessary setback.From long ago I remembered that the spraying of water on it was a REQUIREMENT... not a sugestion.
Why do you blame the product when you failed to follow INSTRUCTIONS?

[bischoffboatworks]

Actually, the instructions don't call for water. They mention that sometimes spraying water on it may accelerate the curing process.

[Jay Greer]

Actually, we did know about the water since the rep had recommended it. It had less than no effect at all. We sugessted that the company might stand for our extra haul out and lay days. The reply was the same as the help they offered. 000000 then they doubled it 000000000000!
JG

[Canoeyawl]

I used life caulk once… when it finally cured it started shrinking and eventually the joint was open. I’m glad it was just a kitchen counter top and not a boat!

[Mike Vogdes]

I Use Life Caulk all the time, mostly for bedding, with positive results. It usually tacks over in a day or so, then cures within a week. Of course it depends on how thick the bead is your using. The bigger the bead, the longer the curing time..

[RodB]

I guess from now on I'll use 3M 4000 UV instead of a polysulfide like lifecalk....but I do like the fact that it is sandable and you can paint atop it. All I wanted on bedding my hardware (flanges on the legs of my poling platform and leaning post) was to seal out moisture from underneath the flange and to allow for painting around the edges of the flanges to pretty up the decks when all installation was done...and its removable easier than say 5200 amd 4200.

RB

[Dan McCosh]

Polysulfides react with water to polymerize, They can get this from high humidity, moisture in the wood, or spraying with water. Dry and cold will prevent the polymerization from taking place.