I just had a Circular saw accident-a reminder to be careful

[mike hanyi]

well Im no evangelist on a certain brand of new tablesaw but Im ready to buy one.

Damage report:
index finger and middle finger cut 30% thru, both luckly behind the nails and did not hit the bone, index finger major skin loss requiring skingraft about the size of a penny, Doc said I lost sensation on thumb side of index permanantly, Mentally I dont know but lets see how they heal. I am crying for my loss, As a boatbuilder,cabnetmaker without self confidence is a loss. I love to make things for my kids, and hold the 2 of them also.

Just like to remind you all to PLEASE think about every cut before you turn on the saw, where your fingers will be thru the entire cut.get that pushstick out and place it where you can reach it before you turn it on. it is not worth the risk of loss to be lazy.
LOWER THE F**KING BLADE to just above the wood surface you need to cut. If I would not have been lazy in not lowering it I might not be typing with 8 fingers. If your pissed off and cant concentrate dont turn on the machine, if your mind is thinking of something else dont turn on the saw. keep the mobile on the workbench and not in the pocket(vibrating ring tone has made me jump)tell your buddy to not bull**** when the saw is on.

please think of your most valuable tools before using the machinery.

take care everyone
-now unemployed for at least a month (my shop)
Mike Hanyi

[boatbear]

Heartfelt sympathy, Mike. Isn't it amazing how many nerve endings there are in those digits? Don't think 'lack of confidence', think 'healthy respect for sharp spinning things'. May you have a quick recovery.

[George Ray]

Be well ...........

[shellback]

I think it was in Discover Magazine a few months ago under a section called best inventions of the year that there was a saw that sensed when the blade touched a finger or any flesh and STOPPED before a serious cut could result.

[StevenBauer]

Bummer, Mike. Sounds like it happened on a tablesaw. A circular saw is a portable hand held item to me. Has Sawstop finally released it's 'contractors' saw? I'd consider switching over. I use a tablesaw everyday and haven't had a run-in yet. I hope it heals up quickly. I remember when Russel with Victorious had his tablesaw accident. What an amazing thing to follow through with the restoration after that.

Steven

[htom]

Heal well, Mike. Do the exercises when they begin, take the pain pills.

[J. Dillon]

Sorry to hear about your accident.:( Tables saw sure demand respect. Made the same mistake my self . It was a small 1 1/2" blade on a saw used for ship model making. I stupidly thought it couldn't hurt me but it did and clipped off quite a bit of meat off my left thumb. That was about 10 years ago. I'm just now getting feeling back. Hope yours will respond to feel sooner .

JD

[geeman]

I was shaping tuners for a Mtn Banjo I'm building for work a cple of hours ago. As I ran the tuner across the grinder to touch up the shape I went too far and reshaped part of my index finger too.Its not near as bad as your injury but it smarts a bit anyway.

[Lew Barrett]

Soory Mike! Be well.

I haven't heard that Saw Stop's contractor saw is out yet but if I were buying a new saw, the Saw Stop would be my choice for a range of reasons, starting with the safety issue but not ending there.

[donald branscom]

Sorry to hear about your accident.

Hope it won't discourage you from making things.
I had a serious accident once. My hands were never the same.
It is not like other injuries.

Good luck ahead.

[PeterSibley]

Good Luck Mike , take it as a warning ,I cut off my right thumb back in 2002 .
http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=6680&highlight=thumb
It has healed perfectly and I'm a LOT more careful these days .:)

[outofthenorm]

So sorry to hear this Mike. Every time someone is hurt like this, I squirm to think about the dumb things I've done with tools and gotten away with, and it makes me pay even more attention. Best wishes to you for your recovery.

- Norm

[JimConlin]

I nicked my left forefinger on the table saw maybe five years ago. The sensation is slowly returning to the affected side.

According to the Sawstop site (http://www.sawstop.com/), the contractor's saw will be out in 'late 2007'.

[Bill R]

Sorry to hear this Mike. Glad it wasn't worse. Listen to the doctors and heal quickly.

[Ron Paro]

Mike, sorry to hear about your accident. I too hope for as speedy and thorough recovery as possible for you. Your post reminds me that I need to put the guard back onto my table saw before I use it again. Thanks for the reminder.

Ron

[pcford]

ditto on all the get well quick messages.

I am such a space cadet that it is remarkable that I have not been injured in thirty some years doing this stuff. However, on starting a machine I imagine where my hands are at the beginning and the end of the operation.

Tuesday night there was a terrible accident at the shop where I have been working. The story....as I was told....a guy was driving a forklift; a guy was walking beside the forklift. The guy beside the forklift evidently had his hand somewhere on the forklift carriage....apparently the driver of the forklift nudged the side travel lever and it sheered off one of the guys fingers and badly damaged the others.

Both of these guys are very good guys and I wish both of them all the best.

This stuff happens so quickly. Think when you are around machinery!!!!

[mike hanyi]

thanks guys, I know im not the only on.

about putting the gaurds back on.

well only if the saw is still useful without the gaurds, at school we got a SCM with the upper gaurd-vacuum on a swing so it is real easy to remove for those half depth cuts.

I wish sawstop company could someway ease their royalty fees to allow some real players to build under licence, god i love that scm, such a sweet saw with the 10 ft sliding table.
blade stops so quick that after you push the off button it is about one second untill the blade stops...and wont turn.

the piece of metal directly behind the blade is a very important part, I was once cutting ply in half when the ply fluttered and the rode on top of the blade,which accelerated the ply into the other hand,hitting the tips of the fingers, hurt like hell and it took me a small investigation to figure out what happened as i was well away from the blade, hurt far more then this initially, but healed up and within 2 days i was at the saw again.

got to get rid of my delta, twice bitten means its gotta go, noisy as hell and i only got bad memories now from it.

ok the drugs are kicking in-back to bed for another 5 hours sleep

[David G]

Having been a woodworker for 30+ years, I've dinged myself mildly a few times - 2 on the table saw. Of course, I've seen far worse. I cringe every time I hear a story like yours.

I sincerely hope you heal quickly and well.

I have always trained my employees, my friends, and my 2 boys to act as if those power tools are Absolutely Out To Get You!! I know they have limited mobility, but their teeth are far sharper and faster than ours. They are malicious! They lie in wait - lurking, and seizing any opportunity offered by a lapse in judgment or concentration. It is our job to make sure they don't get the opportunity to strike. It's kinda like working with the big cats. You just don't wanna be doing it when you're drunk, distracted, tired, or otherwise at all inattentive.

"Let the fear of danger be a spur to prevent it, he that fears not, gives advantage to the danger" -- Frances Quarles (1592-1644)

[Don Victore]

I'm truly sorry to hear of your accident. It never fails to send a chile up my spine hope you recover well and don't lose to much confidence in your self. The pain pills were worse then the pain. They seamed to amplify it rather then subdue it. Hope it does not do that for you. Power tools (like most people do) I respect with a cringing fear. I had always taken hand tool accidents for granted. I was cutting a bridle joint one day and had the piece positioned so that I was paring the little bit of a scribed line off when like an idiot went clear through the other side. The chisel went right into my left index at the second joint. It was so deep and impacted that at first all the blood just collected in a pool in the little pond I had just created. Turned out I had cut a tendon.That was a painful one. Then not a month later with the very same chisel I ended opening up ten inches of fore arm on the upper side. I had the chisel clamped to a bench fitting a new handle on it. When I reached over to grab another tool I ran it up my arm. It opened up to an inch no blood at first but it came soon enough. To date the worst I have sustained and the dumbest of them was when This 1500 lb. boat cradle landed on me. Split ankle apple, broken hip, and can you say blue ball, 6 month hospital stay, 1.5 year recovery And still no sensation in my foot. I now have a $260,000 leg that does not work as well as the cheeper one. The sponge baths were nice though:D

[pcford]

I'm truly sorry to hear of your accident. It never fails to send a chile up my spine hope you recover well and don't lose to much confidence in your self. The pain pills were worse then the pain. They seamed to amplify it rather then subdue it. Hope it does not do that for you. Power tools (like most people do) I respect with a cringing fear. I had always taken hand tool accidents for granted. I was cutting a bridle joint one day and had the piece positioned so that I was paring the little bit of a scribed line off when like an idiot went clear through the other side. The chisel went right into my left index at the second joint. It was so deep and impacted that at first all the blood just collected in a pool in the little pond I had just created. Turned out I had cut a tendon.That was a painful one. Then not a month later with the very same chisel I ended opening up ten inches of fore arm on the upper side. I had the chisel clamped to a bench fitting a new handle on it. When I reached over to grab another tool I ran it up my arm. It opened up to an inch no blood at first but it came soon enough. To date the worst I have sustained and the dumbest of them was when This 1500 lb. boat cradle landed on me. Split ankle apple, broken hip, and can you say blue ball, 6 month hospital stay, 1.5 year recovery And still no sensation in my foot. I now have a $260,000 leg that does not work as well as the cheeper one. The sponge baths were nice though:D


YIKES!!!!!

[mike hanyi]

when I was in summer camp we had a shopsmith in the woodshop, I do recall there was a sign on the wall

"Fingers grow but once"

dont know who said it but im going to make one.

I do notice that cabnetmakers are more machinists then woodworkers, and boatbuilders spend far less time with the stationary equip giving us better statistics.

I also believe that you are more likely of pushing a chisel thru your finger then a circular accedent- 4x chisel stiches in the first school year tells me you are not as scared of handtools then machinery, those one toothed sabercarrots are also very dangerious,but luckily they dont bit as deep or as jagged.

[The Bigfella]

Sorry to hear that Mike. Best wishes for a speedy and full recovery.

You know that it is traditional around here to post photos of the offending digits - with or without bandages.

Ian

[Salty Sailor]

The Local Boat builder down the road dropped his chisel from where it was hanging on the wall and he lost a toe.. :eek: He has closed up shop for a couple of weeks..

[Ron Joslin]

Mike, Thanks for the reminder. I think I will go clear off my workbench and clean up the shop. Get well soon.

[sandingblock]

I feel for you! Don't beat yourself up to much, I think everyone on this forum who's done a lot of woodworking has at the very least a few near miss stories. I've come damn close a few times.

I'd like to say that the reason that I've still got all my digits is skill or diligence, but secretly I know it's just dumb luck!

[Tylerdurden]

Those saws demand respect at all times, Hope you heal real fast.

[Rational Root]

My grandfather, a ships carpenter, lost a few fingers to high speed spinning blades.

So far my only injuries at the expense of power tools have been to push sticks.

Seeing how quickly saws, planers and routers can take a chunk out of a push stick, especially when you don't realise it's that close to the sharp spinning thing, that can be pretty sobering.

"If I'd been using my hands...."

Heal well.

[mike hanyi]

if you want to see my destroyed fingers, sorry I dont care to see them myself, I only briefly looked at them after he stitched in the graft, actually the hole in my arm hurts more then the fingers at the moment.

want to see blood and gore rent a film, in real life it is a bit less entertaining.

[geeman]

My grandfather was a carpenter.Built houses for a living and was also a fiddle player/banjo player.(backporch style)
Many, many years ago he bought one of the new power saws when they came out.He was used to using hand tools only.Soon after he started using his new fangled power saw he cut most of the fingers on his right hand almost off. He got some of the feel back in his fingers but never was the same after that.
Not once tho , in all the years can I remember him saying one word about the accident other then it happened.No complaining,no excuses,it just happened.

[Frank Wentzel]

Sorry Mike! It seems about once a year one of us forumites makes a similar post. I am so damn afraid of my table saw. I have a rule not to get any closer than 3 inches but, as noted, attention wanders. So far I've been lucky.

/// Frank ///

[MattL]

Sorry to hear of your accident. As everone else said, heal fast and well.

[MiddleAgesMan]

Sorry to hear about the accident. The bright lining would be, thank g_d it wasn't worse.

I want to remind table saw users there is an even more serious injury possible than a lost finger, especially if your saw is high powered. In a shop I used to work in we had a half-dozen or so big industrial table saws. Most were 5hp models but a couple of them had 10hp motors. One of my co-workers was on a 10hp saw when he had a piece of plywood kicked back at him. Damage to his abdomen was pretty severe so he was taken to the emergency room where he was stitched up and sent home. He was back to work within a couple days but dead within a couple weeks. The doctors had failed to check for internal injuries and it turned out he had 'em pretty bad.

This isn't likely to happen with a typical home or contractor's saw, 1, 2, or 3 hp. But if you're working with a big one use that splitter and don't ever try free-handing a cut.

[mike hanyi]

well we got one at school that kicked back last season, took out one pane of a double glazed window, it was ash and they were making archery bows (size) was not there to see what happened but i believe it was due to fluttering before takeoff, nobody hurt.

our big SCM is 8 horse, and a beauty of a saw that few can afford, (over 10k) 10 ft sled and 4x8 ply carrage. both these saws I feel more comfortable as they are real professional tools with perfect fences and measurements, my ****ty delta has always made me nervous, noisy,jolt when starting, and long time to stop spinning.

as for surface planers 2 years ago someone left the pushstick on top of the fence,I turned it on and it fellinto the blade accelerating it across the shop and nearly going thru the window.

best advice is
dont expose any more blade then you need and use a pushstick.

I wish the patent will run out on the sawstop so others could use the technoligy to put it in other brands.

remember in the movie Tucker the issue of seatbelts??? if they put seatbelts as standard equip in cars it means that cars must be dangerous... that was what 1948? didnt take untill june 1964 untill it became law.
cars dangerous.... what are people thinking!

[Bob Cleek]

Yes, it happens and it's a service to remind others of the danger, even at the expense of one's own injuries.

Sometimes, you can't preach safety too much. The problem is, the one that gets you is the one you didn't see coming.

As for table saws (let's hope pride doesn't come before a fall!), I benefited from being taught by a dad who was perhaps too afraid of power tools to ever use his much. A generational thing, I suppose. Powered flight had only been in existence three years when he was born! I learned early that power tools were wicked dangerous.

I am myself "too" careful. I'm sure if I were working in a production shop, I'd be fired in a hot minute for taking too long to get anything done. I've spent a fair amount of time working alongside pros, and I have to say NONE of them met my old man's power tool safety standards. Let me say I LIKE Norm and catch his show whenever I can, but his "professional" approach to shop safety never fails to amaze me. I think I saw Norm use a block plane once, and a chisel to clean out a mortise, but beyond that, every tool he uses seems to be powered. I swear the guy has some manufacturer whose given him an electric gizmo to tie his shoelaces! Of course, Norm begins every show with his routine "safety speech" ("...and always wear these, safety glasses...") but then proceeds to do things that make my skin crawl. Not only that, but he does them so nonchalantly, he makes it look like that's the way it's supposed to be done.

Next time you watch old Norm, check out how he stands in line with the blade when running his table saw. I can't remember ever seeing Norm use a push stick. He never has a blade guard on anything. (Well, okay, neither do I.) He routinely reaches over the blade at the end of a cut. How often have you seen him rip thin molding stock freehand on his saw without a feather board? He plays fast and loose with his router table, although now he has a heavy duty shaper that can take off even more meat and faster. Pretty amazing he still has ten fingers. If he were so concerned about shop safety, he'd skip the pat homily at the begining of his show and mention safety, safety, and more safety, while he's explaining what he's building.

Me, I have a "to the side and one foot" rule I try to follow always on table saws. I never stand in line with the blade and I never reach over a blade and I never let my hands get closer than a foot from a turning blade. This means I use a push stick a whole lot of the time. I have three or four dedicated push sticks, one going back to my dad's day. HALF OF THEM have some sort of chunk missing out of them. Some of those chunks came as sudden surprises. They are a good reminder.

[ssor]

I have been told that hide and bone don't bother those machines none.

[JimD]

Sorry about the accident, Mike, and a speedy recovery to you.

[kenjamin]

Mike, I sincerely hope you have a speedy and complete recovery.

I sing in a barbershop harmony quartet with a guy who lost 1&1/2 fingers in a tablesaw accident on his hand shaking hand. We routinely shake hands at the beginning of every practice so I'm often reminded of shop safety.

Thanks for the video on the Riviera – enjoyed that very much. Nice boat and a great story.

Get well soon!

[Chan]

I'm helping a guy out, his wife is opening a pre school, I'm building some cubbies for them. Last weekend he ran his hand over the table saw, cross cutting a piece of plywood I guess and it jammed, unfortunately his hand didn't,
ran through all the joints in his right hand. The local E.R. said he'd lose em all, he went to Mass. Gen. and after 6 hours of surgery they saved em all. No gaurantee to thier future usefulness.
Hope you heal well, but it could have been worse.

[ssor]

An equally dangerous move comes from backing-up a portable saw (7 1/4 inch type) My son has nursed several men that had the saw climb out of the cut and run back into their leg. It is so fast that the guard doesn't have time to fall.
Heal well and soon. One thing that can be said these thing sure do happen fast.

[Jay Greer]

Oh shet Mike! Having had a couple of the same with band and table saws, I know how you feel!! I did get the feeling back in my thumb and index finger by following my surgeons advice. He told me that once the trauma was healed to start (lightly) tapping the finger tips on my work bench for a few minutes each day. It hurt like hell but it did work. Remember, it was light tapping.
Heal well.
Jay

[carioca1232001]

An equally dangerous move comes from backing-up a portable saw (7 1/4 inch type) My son has nursed several men that had the saw climb out of the cut and run back into their leg. It is so fast that the guard doesn't have time to fall.
Heal well and soon. One thing that can be said these thing sure do happen fast.

I had a tough time routing out the white-wood (hard!) strips set in mahogany planking on my front deck. A friend suggested using a 7 1/4 " portable saw instead.

Very effective in comparison, but on a couple of ocassions, the saw nearly rode over my feet.:eek: Scared the living daylights out of me

[Chan]

carioca
Sounds like you had the gaurd pinned, or no guard at all.

[carioca1232001]

Chan,

Obviously one has to hold the guard back with one´s fingers to let the saw bite into the white-wood strip and once this is done, one lets go.

However should the blade bind for any reason, the whole contraption kicks out of the groove and comes dangerously close to one´s feet.

If the guard then flips back instantaneously into place seems unlikely, as the saw teeth left some vicious marks on the deck while lunging at my feet.

[ssor]

When you mark out a section that needs to be removed, Whether it is an old floor or a new stair carriage, You must lift the blade guard to get the cut started. The temptation is to get in a hurry and back the blade out of the cut. DON'T!! just let the saw run to a stop. If you didn't get a good start at the begining of the cutout it is too tempting to work back to the corner .DON'T. Start the cut over. I have been very lucky but I have had incidents, and I don't need to be told twice.

[mike hanyi]

all that writing about the festool handcircular is true, I have been working with it for at least 3 years- well worth it for safety also.

the blade is never exposed unless there is pressure under it, the following finger is springloaded to ease plunge cuts.

36 hours now since the accedent, last night i kept reliving the "twing" and the "ahhhhhh" almost threw up. it didnt hurt as it happned so fast, the fingers were numb like they were cold, shoved it in a plastic bag and wife had me in the er in 15. in 18 the doc was there, took over 2 hours to do the work.

its letting go of the vivid memory that I wish to do and the sensation of having the hand pulled thru the blade, I sware I felt bone hit.
yes it is grose talking about it but hope everybody senses the dangers with this.

[WX]

Sorry to hear mate, hope it's a speedy recovery.
Dangerous things these powertools, I've had some near misses.

[Robmill0605]

Get well soon Mike.

I have never lost my respect/fear for my powertools. My son walked up behind me one day when i was running a large piece of oak through the tablesaw . I had on my saftey glasses, my ear protection and i was concentrating on the cut when he tapped me on the shoulder.
I jumped, startled, and the oak kicked back like a rocket launcher.:eek:

Since i was standing to the side, of the cut it flew backwards and broke the windshield in my wifes car.

My son is an adult, and I can't print the expletives that came out of me.

Bottom line is, when you least expect it.....

[katiedobe]

Sorry to hear about your accident. I got bit by my saw just before I left mexico. Nothing but a scrape and a torn rubber glove. Power was off, blad spinning down to a stop and I was impatient and reached too soon.

As for Sawstop and the Royalties issue. Some facts are in order. It was invented by a man in Portland, Oregon, a lawyer and hobby woodowrker I think. Once he invented the basics of the sensor and the spring and the aluminum that jumps into the blade he took it to all the big machine makers (powermatic, delta, general etc) at first they were all interested. But since it cannot be retrofited to existing machines and only installed on new they were concerned about a product liability lawsuit since they have it on one machine and not another. Some such BS. So no one would begin to install it on their new machines since they could not offer it as a retrofit, or maybe because they would need to "recall" and unsafe device (old machines that don't have the safety system).
So he was determined to put this finger saving device on the market and he tooled up and began producing a good and safe tablesaw.
Next saw I buy will be one.

[merlinron]

woodworking tools are a different breed of animal.......it seems the more you use them, the higher are your chances of injury. i know very few people who live by thier woodworking tools that don't have an injury or two to tell about, some more. i have a stiff right index finger due to stupidly sticking the second knuckle in a running jointer. they demand every ounce of attention when using them. follow the rules and use the pusher sticks, etc. if you feel hurried, that's a good time to take a break from them, also.

[skuthorp]

EWW!! I looked at my fingers after reading, all healed up now. Sent shivers down my back. Best wishes for a good recovery.

[donald branscom]

thanks guys, I know im not the only on.

about putting the gaurds back on.

well only if the saw is still useful without the gaurds, at school we got a SCM with the upper gaurd-vacuum on a swing so it is real easy to remove for those half depth cuts.

I wish sawstop company could someway ease their royalty fees to allow some real players to build under licence, god i love that scm, such a sweet saw with the 10 ft sliding table.
blade stops so quick that after you push the off button it is about one second untill the blade stops...and wont turn.

the piece of metal directly behind the blade is a very important part, I was once cutting ply in half when the ply fluttered and the rode on top of the blade,which accelerated the ply into the other hand,hitting the tips of the fingers, hurt like hell and it took me a small investigation to figure out what happened as i was well away from the blade, hurt far more then this initially, but healed up and within 2 days i was at the saw again.

got to get rid of my delta, twice bitten means its gotta go, noisy as hell and i only got bad memories now from it.

ok the drugs are kicking in-back to bed for another 5 hours sleep

Speaking of kicking back....that is what it is called.
If you are cross cutting (and with ply your are always crosscutting)
you can get a kickback and the blade can accelerate the material back at you at the speed of a 22 cal bullet. You can get broken ribs etc.

When you are cutting a big sheet of ply you have to be extra careful.

[Wild Dingo]

Hope its healing alright Mike.

Savage beasts power tools... had one or two runins with the buggars... totally my fault I admit that split second of inantention or that thinking I gotta get this done so not using the right power tool or a clamp and suddenly theres meat and gore going every which way and a long stint in the ER of the local hospital followed by a long stint in surgury getting tendons "repaired"... and now some months later the damned fingers still unable to straighten properly or bend properly

Watch the bastards and make sure you take your time to do it right! BE AWARE.