Lightning class one-design - mainsheet "Crosby rig"?

[MuddyFeet]

I'm restoring lightning hull #6046. In looking through old documents and literature that the previous owner passed on to me, I see an article on mainsheet rigging written by the Lightning Class Association's president at the time. (There is no date on the article). Apparently the bridle traveler used on Lightnings today was just coming on the scene. Reading between the lines, only a simple bridle was allowed. That is, the traveler arrangements used today were disallowed.

That’s interesting if you're delving into a Lightning restoration, but perhaps more interesting for this forum is that the writer compares the new bridle to the "Crosby rig". Looking at drawings in some of the other documents, I believe the “Crosby rig” was set up as follows: The main sheet was tied off at the end of the boom, ran down to a block on the port side of the aft deck, across the deck to a block on the starboard side, up to a block on the end of the boom, then midway across the boom and down to a cleat on the centerboard. This arrangement formed a triangle at the aft end of the cockpit. The tiller handle passed through the triangle. The arrangement yields a 2:1 purchase.

My boat appears to have been set up for a Crosby rig and at this time I plan to use that setup when I get to the point of putting the rigging back in. Right now she’s suspended in my garaged and I’m sanding her down to bare wood to see what I’ve got.

Getting to my point (finally): Is the term “Crosby rig” something associated with other boats as well? Did it originate on the famous Crosby catboats? At any rate, I had never heard that term before and thought you would find it historically interesting.

[Alan D. Hyde]

William F. Crosby is the name of a well-known editor of Rudder magazine who was also a designer.

IIRC, the Lightning was designed by S. & S., but they initially used a rig similar to that Crosby had used on the Snipe.

Many racing class rules have gradually been modified over the years to keep up interest by permitting modern gear and approaches to be utilized.

Alan

[ 10-10-2005, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[Thad]

I don't know about the mainsheet arrangement, but it occurs to me that if what you see are blocks on the quarters they could be for spinnaker sheets.

[MuddyFeet]

Yes, it was an Olin Stephens design, S&S Design number 265 drawn in 1937. S&S sold the plans outright to the Lightning Class Association. In his book "The American Sailboat", Gregory Jones quotes Stephens writings, "As we watched the fleet grow we decided not to do that again."

The same book shows an early Snipe with a similar rig. There's nothing that unique about it and it was probably common on various boats. My curiosity was in how it came to be known as the "Crosby rig".

As for the Lightning's spinnaker turning blocks, those are further back by the transom. My boat actually used a simple brass fairlead rather than a block.

[Charlie Santi]

I just aquired #6858 by way of the rescue foundation. Sent for plan set and available history from lightning class association. Will start restoration on mine this winter.

[MuddyFeet]

Good luck, Charlie. We'll have to compare notes occasionally. S&S designed these boats for the amateur as well as professional builder. Those attributes make them comparatively easy repair as well.

A couple decisions I've made on my restoration:

1) I'm using a polysulphide caulk rather than the more traditional Interlux Brown seam caulk.
2) I'll do the deck with Dynel/Epoxy rather than canvas.
3) I'll replace most of the blocks with Harken.

These "modernization compromises" will make the boat much easier to maintain and sail without deviating to far from her character.

[Carl Simmons]

For those of you restoring Wooden Lightnings, there is a yahoogroup with a bunch of guys who have been there, done that. They would be more then willing to answer questions on restoration and rigging. Here is the Link:
Wooden Lightning Yahoogroup (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wooden_Lightning/)

As far as a Crosby Rig, It pretty easy to set up and uses two blocks on the sides of the cockpit and two on the boom (one at the end, and the other over the Main sheet control. I switched from the crosby to an adjustable traveler because the crosby rig doesn't keep the boom centered well enough. Here is a picture of my orignal Crosby rig.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid137/p6ceaae62ffe29e8fc132cceea7916ea7/f7330a8c.jpg

Carl Simmons.

[Alan D. Hyde]

Muddy Feet, it was I suspect called the "Crosby rig" after Rudder editor and Snipe designer Bill (William F.) Crosby, who used it on the Snipe and thus popularized it.

Alan

[MuddyFeet]

Alan - You're probably right about the origin of the term. I find the history of the small racing dinghy's of this period fascinating.

Carl - I've admired the fine job you did on your new wood Lightning. I presume you used a block like the Harken P/N 148 on the bridle. How then do tie this to the traveler control lines? It seems a bit awkard to tie off the traveler control around a "coupled" block like this, but from photos it appears that's what folks do.

I really need to find a well-rigged Lightning in my area and go take notes. :)

Oh, and thanks for the yahoo group. I found that just yesterday. I'll try them out.

[dane@]

Hi,
I am restoring an older lightning that's in terrible shape. The only way I can see getting it in shape is to remove the old rotten mahogany planking and replace it with mahogany plywood soaked in CPES and then clear fiberglass with a thin cloth to appear as a clear finish. The framework is basically sound and the rigging, sails, mast, boom, rudder and centerboard are great. I grew up sailing a Blue Jay which my Dad and I built. This will be a dream come true, but am I crazy to try and re-sheath the hull? I know I'll have to take on one plane at a time. Any suggestions / comments.

Dane Jensen

[johnw]

The setup I've seen on Lightnings doesn't look like the Crosby setup I'm used to. On Snipes, we use either a double-tailed mainsheet or a separate line. Either way, you've got two tails going into the two sides of the boat, meeting at a ring where another line attaches. That line can pull the ring to the center, meaning the pull on the mainsheet will be to the center, or you can ease it so that the ring goes to one side, and the mainsheet pulls from the other side. The line that pulls in the middle is under the deck, and I haven't found any diagrams that show how it works. When it pulls the ends of the two tails to the middle, it shortens the weather part of the line and brings the boom to the center. When you ease the adjustment, the attachment point moved to weather, making the weather line longer and putting the boom over the opposite transom. Here's a picture of one with the adjustment pulled to the center:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LUq93m5woVo/Tq37YjmHiEI/AAAAAAAAqlw/0cyPA9Ib2iQ/w260-h174-k/IMG_0907.JPG

And here's one with the adjustment eased, so that the weather part is longer and the lee part is shorter, so the pull is more toward the lee quarter:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--FmQRs7i_94/Tq38Rkmo2EI/AAAAAAAAqrs/a2J98bjf-_A/w261-h174-k/IMG_1027.JPG

Go to this link (http://books.google.com/books?id=Mt4OtDd_YP0C&pg=RA1-PA21&lpg=RA1-PA21&dq=lightning+class+mainsheet+setup+royce&source=bl&ots=IaQ1KZgYDr&sig=3z-JPq2-EmWprXwvJxxX3A3ef1w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3xUVT87iO8qaiAKb2sDMDQ&sqi=2&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false), and on Page 7 of Royce's Sailing Illustrated you'll see a diagram of the Crosby rig used on the Snipe, which of course Crosby designed. On Page 8 it shows the Lightning setup, which to my eye is a lot less elegant.

[Figment]

As an aside to your question, I'd want a lot more than 2:1 on a lightning mainsheet!

[JimConlin]

I think I've heard similar mainsheet systems on other boats referred to as Crosby rigs.
Ian might have an opinion on whether attribution to the Cape Cod Crosbys is appropriate.
As the two leads from the boom are at different angles, the actual mechanical advantage of the system isn't exactly 2:1, but if the lead from the boom down to the middle of the boat is counted, 2:1 is pretty close.

[johnw]

I think I've heard similar mainsheet systems on other boats referred to as Crosby rigs.
Ian might have an opinion on whether attribution to the Cape Cod Crosbys is appropriate.
As the two leads from the boom are at different angles, the actual mechanical advantage of the system isn't exactly 2:1, but if the lead from the boom down to the middle of the boat is counted, 2:1 is pretty close.I believe the Crosby rig is specifically named after William Flower Crosby, who designed the Snipe.

[StevenBauer]

Not crazy, Dane. Keep us informed.



Steven