THIS is global warming!

[Phillip Allen]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070710/ap_on_re_us/gang_rape_4;_ylt=An8HflYa.NUvI04eiHjA1vEE1vAI

Lets see if Gore can address this and get the same publicity

"So a lady was raped. Big deal," resident Paticiea Matlock said with disgust. "There's too much other crime happening here."

[seanz]

Why Gore , let's pick another ex VP to take care of crime.
Why not Quail? He's not doing much is he?

For the record , I regret opening that link.
:(

[martin schulz]

For the record , I regret opening that link.
:(

2nd that...and what the H*ll does that have to do with Al Gore???

[Phillip Allen]

here's what it has to do with Gore...NOTHING and he has NOTHING to do with it! Gore is a distraction while we ignore more important issues...it is relitively for people to sit in trees and think they are helping mankind while ignoring more salient problems

For those who are further DISTRACTED by my reference to Al Gore, it ain't about Gore, it's about ALL OF US

[WX]

for people to sit in trees and think they are helping mankind

The environment around us disappears though a process I call the death of a thousand cuts, if it wasn't for a few shaggy haired characters we would not have any truly big 500 year old trees left to show our children.
Where I grew up I lived about a mile out of town...grass road verges and lots of forest to run around in. Now?..it's all gone, it's housing estates and there is a set of traffic lights outside the house I lived in!
Gobal warming is a salient problem, so is the fact that in many areas a woman can not walk down a street at night with the same sense of safety a man can.
yes, it is about all of us.

[Phillip Allen]

care to get back to the viciousness of the crime in example?

[Paul G.]

forget about global warming...its a bleeding heart liberal crock, a gravy train, a falling sky.

Environmentalism yes, guilt trip no. its not about progressing forward and finding solutions to environmental issues. PROGRESS is the problem!

I absolutely agree that its shadowplay while the real issues that affect society are largely ignored by those in power.

[seanz]

What do you want Phillip? A concert against crime? Remember , if we all hold hands we can stop violence.:rolleyes:
People like to worry about bogeymen.Like gobal warming. In NZ we had a few kids (sadly) die from meningitis in the last couple of years , big issue , quick , lets vaccinate all the young people. So they did and I haven't heard much about it since. Now , about 100 young Kiwi's will die on the roads this year and sad to say but it's just an accepted fact.It's human nature , when a problem is endemic people look past it.

[Phillip Allen]

Be careful what you wish for...

Improving "lifestyle" and "quality of life" has been a political mantra since I began noticing things outside my mother's house in my childhood. Now we have our two bonless chickens in our microwave ovens and we are complaining about its affects! We have thirty-something people riding $3,000 bicycles but no children trundling up and down their neighborhood streets on Shwinns or Western flyers...and the thirty-somethings gnash their teeth over the "best" helmet to foist off on the public so to aswage their sense of guilt..."see us, we care, we are DOING something good (aren't we?)

[seanz]

So little tetchy this morning? Worlds going to hell in a handbasket aint it?
I'm off to bed where the troubles of the world cannot find me.
Oh , by the way. Anyone want to buy a used bicycle?
:D

[Singlegrandad]

Some peoples should find a more productive hobby, than creating useless meanderings on a chat forum.

[Mrleft8]

You occasionally surprise me Phillip.... A person who clearly loves nature, the outdoors, and animals, and yet you seem to be indicating that you think the enviroment that we all live in, is capable of taking care of it's self just fine. That species dying off is part of the plan... Perhaps it is. Perhaps pollution is hastening this die off... Perhaps it's not...

[geeman]

Judging by a few of the comments here , it appears some resent reality being "forced" on them.As long as its some one else, somewhere else ,they would prefer not to know.
This is the life some in this country are forced to live,as we ignore it.
Sleep well , you who do not want to be exposed to others miserable lives, suffer.
Sleep well tonight.

[geeman]

Personally,if they can find all who did this deed to that poor woman and her son,my suggestion would be to put all the vermin in the general prison system and make sure their NOT PROTECTED in any way,,,,,,,
And the reactions and comments of some tell me more about the direction our country and or world is headed . More so then the deed these slime commented.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Phil, I bet you could post a soup recipe and turn it into a rag on Al Gore or Bill Clinton, or Nancy Pelosi or whoever your current liberal hate is at the moment.
You are going to have to live with the fact that the Neocon sun has come down like a spent canon ball and is now buried in the mud. It will ne'er rise again in your lifetime or mine. It is "kaput", 'fini" "koniec", "das ende",etc., etc. Not even a bayonet charge by the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" will reverse current Neocon misfortunes.
We are in the seventh year of an eight-year disaster and most of your fellow Americans want out and want out bad.

[John of Phoenix]

here's what it has to do with Gore...NOTHING and he has NOTHING to do with it! Gore is a distraction while we ignore more important issues...it is relitively for people to sit in trees and think they are helping mankind while ignoring more salient problems

For those who are further DISTRACTED by my reference to Al Gore, it ain't about Gore, it's about ALL OF US

Are you drunk?

[George Roberts]

Phillip Allen ---

That we let incidents like this does speak poorly of all of us.

That politics has focused on issues larger than the individual also speaks about us.

There needs to be a balance. There is a valid reason to focus on the future, but unless we solve a number of current problems, few of us may enjoy the future.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

(Quote)
Lets see if Gore can address this and get the same publicity
Lets see if Gore can address this and get the same publicity
Lets see if Gore can address this and get the same publicity
Lets see if Gore can address this and get the same publicity
Lets see if Gore can address this and get the same publicity
Lets see if Gore can address this and get the same publicity
Lets see if Gore can address this and get the same publicity
Lets see if Gore can address this and get the same publicity
Lets see if Gore can address this and get the same publicity
Lets see if Gore can address this and get the same publicity
Lets see if Gore can address this and get the same publicity
(First line of post #12,161 by Phillip Allen)

[Bruce Hooke]

There are lots of things wrong with the world that need our attention. We each have to pick our issues based on both what calls out to us and where we think we can make a difference. Raging about which issues someone else chooses to focus on seems to be a waste of time and energy. Pick YOUR issue and GET TO WORK. Do something about it. If you can't do something about it then pick a different issue that you can do something about.

Keep in mind as well that global warming is not just some fuzzy environmental issue with no real impact on human lives. There is good evidence that part of the background to the slaughter in Darfur is the change in climate there that likely ties into global warming. If the brutal raping and murder of hundreds of thousands of people is not something to get worked up about, I'm not sure what is.

[dmede]

So your answer would be drop everything and just focus on violent crime? Or just rape? What's your point?

There's a lot to be done... and individuals can't tackle it all so some people focus on global warming and the environment, some on education and others on crime. I mean what are you asking people to do? If I donate $50 to a particular charity am I suddenly an a$$hole for not giving to them all?

[Phillip Allen]

The whole point of my original post was to complain about political posturing...this earth has had the ice advance and the ice recede and I know that if man did not exist the ice would advance and recede again...I hate being manipulated and, more to the point, I think it is a shame we focus on acorns falling from oaks while we strangle in the tendrils of mundane violence because it lacks the drama we crave.

[Kaa]

TThere is good evidence that part of the background to the slaughter in Darfur is the change in climate there that likely ties into global warming.

Care to provide some links for that evidence?

The basic reason Sahara is expanding is that people who live in Sahel don't die as early and as frequently as they used to. Accordingly, their numbers grow, and so does the number of their goats and cattle. The herds overgraze the land, making it desert in just a few years -- and Sahara expands. No global warming is involved.

Kaa

[Phillip Allen]

Today I was working inside a new elementary school. The building is pretty vast and is now nearly finished. Air conditioners are keeping it cool and nearly all the acoustic ceilings are in place. Desks are being assembled in the cafetorium where I was installing expansion joints and fire barriers. I turned a bucket bottom up and sat down to read the instructions on a tube of adhesive…sitting my hard hat down beside me to let the sweat in my hair dry a little (I had been outside). The project manager came by and told me to put it on because the channel 5 news camera crew was on their way. Well I put it on then thought: if it is dangerous for me to be bare headed now then it will be just as dangerous for the children who come this fall. What kind of a nation have we become that the bare headed news crew was shielded from our bare heads…how have we managed to pass laws requiring stupidity while ignoring the other crime around us?

[dmede]

Today I was working inside a new elementary school. The building is pretty vast and is now nearly finished. Air conditioners are keeping it cool and nearly all the acoustic ceilings are in place. Desks are being assembled in the cafetorium where I was installing expansion joints and fire barriers. I turned a bucket bottom up and sat down to read the instructions on a tube of adhesive…sitting my hard hat down beside me to let the sweat in my hair dry a little (I had been outside). The project manager came by and told me to put it on because the channel 5 news camera crew was on their way. Well I put it on then thought: if it is dangerous for me to be bare headed now then it will be just as dangerous for the children who come this fall. What kind of a nation have we become that the bare headed news crew was shielded from our bare heads…how have we managed to pass laws requiring stupidity while ignoring the other crime around us?

Short answer: Lawyers :D

[Bruce Hooke]

Care to provide some links for that evidence?

The basic reason Sahara is expanding is that people who live in Sahel don't die as early and as frequently as they used to. Accordingly, their numbers grow, and so does the number of their goats and cattle. The herds overgraze the land, making it desert in just a few years -- and Sahara expands. No global warming is involved.

Kaa

It was in the Atlantic Monthly so you have to be a subscriber to get access to it. However, I put in a lot of qualifiers in my original post because I don't think the link between global warming and the ecological changes in Darfur have been completely proven.

In any case, leaving aside Darfur, if you are not convinced that global warming will have real and very negative impacts on lots of people then I don't think there is anything I can say that will change your mind.

[Bruce Hooke]

The whole point of my original post was to complain about political posturing...this earth has had the ice advance and the ice recede and I know that if man did not exist the ice would advance and recede again...I hate being manipulated and, more to the point, I think it is a shame we focus on acorns falling from oaks while we strangle in the tendrils of mundane violence because it lacks the drama we crave.

So in other words you are pissed that other people think global warming is a serious problem and that other people think we should put a lot of effort into addressing it. I'm sorry. However, it seems pretty unproductive to me to try to rage against global warming using the round-about method you are taking on this thread.

You could start another debate about whether global warming is a real problem that needs to be addressed, but as you've probably discovered it is getting to be a harder and harder to make a real case 'against' global warming.

[Phillip Allen]

I've got a vastly greater chance to make a difference locally than I have to ignore local troubles and worry about theory

[ljb5]

I've got a vastly greater chance to make a difference locally than I have to ignore local troubles and worry about theory


So, what are you doing about it? Besides trolling an internet chat room with a shamelessly mistitled, disgusting political attack?

[ljb5]

The whole point of my original post was to complain about political posturing....

Yup, you sure pointed out how pathetic and sick your political posturing is.

[Tanbark Spanker]

The lower forth dimensional reptilian shapeshifters thrive on violence. This is why they control our world as if it were a prison. Read David Icke, you'll begin to understand why we are plagued with such horror and ..."the horror, the horror."

There is hope ...and the BSE prion.

[skuthorp]

There's a point of view that says that Govts don't mind this sort of trouble in politically powerless groups as a distraction from other problems and as an opportunity to kick the 'law and order' can for electoral reasons. Disadvantaged communities with low policing, low employment and low incomes will always have crime problems. The hard thing is to fix the disadvantage, there's no votes in it.
If you want to do something concrete, see if you can help support them so the son doesn't go down the same path. As for the perpetrators, while revenge is a natural reaction what good will a spell in jail do for a 14 year old. It would be more humane to kill him, quickly.

[ljb5]

The basic reason Sahara is expanding is that people who live in Sahel don't die as early and as frequently as they used to. Accordingly, their numbers grow, and so does the number of their goats and cattle. The herds overgraze the land, making it desert in just a few years -- and Sahara expands. No global warming is involved.

This is really quite remarkable.

For years we have heard that humans could not possibly alter the environment....

...and now we here that they have changed the environment!

Obviously, the conservative can only admit such a fact when he believe it suppports his political position. Still, any progress is a step in the right direction.

Let's try this line of reasoning one more time, but instead of thinking only of a tribe of nomands and their goats, imagine a population of billions of people and their hundreds of millions of cars and coal plants.

Is it really so hard to believe they might have more of an effect than goats?

[Kaa]

This is really quite remarkable.

For years we have heard that humans could not possibly alter the environment....

...and now we here that they have changed the environment!

LOL. Feeling like building figures out of straw?

Of course humans can and do change the environment. That has been true for a very long time. The first human-caused species extinctions date back to cavemen. Look at the development of irrigation, deforestation, etc. etc.

What you mean is that until recently some people said that human activity cannot change the global climate which is not exactly the same thing as the environment. These people turned out to be wrong.


Obviously, the conservative can only admit such a fact when he believe it suppports his political position. Still, any progress is a step in the right direction.

Conservative? Moi? :-) You really should broaden your frame of reference beyond the simple left-right axis.


Let's try this line of reasoning one more time, but instead of thinking only of a tribe of nomands and their goats, imagine a population of billions of people and their hundreds of millions of cars and coal plants.

Is it really so hard to believe they might have more of an effect than goats?

They do, of course, but I don't know what you are arguing against. The issue isn't whether humans have any effect on the environment -- that's a silly thing to argue about -- but about managing (or attempting to manage) this effect and about the cost and benefits of doing so in a particular way.

Kaa

[Popeye]

.. people who live in Sahel don't die as early and as frequently as they used to.

did they once die more frequently ?:D

[ljb5]

The issue isn't whether humans have any effect on the environment -- that's a silly thing to argue about -- but about managing (or attempting to manage) this effect and about the cost and benefits of doing so in a particular way.

Well, Kaa, I responded to your post, but I did not mean to imply that you're the only one who has expressed an opinion on the subject.

Although you readily admit that humans do have an effect on the environment, there are many on this forum who steadfastly refuse to make such an admission.

It was to these people that my comments were directed.

After we're all up to speed on the basic facts and science, we could then move on to the more difficult subject of managing the effects and the cost/benefits therein.

Since so many are still being "silly" (your word, not mine), it's difficult to move on to the more interesting subjects.

[Kaa]

Although you readily admit that humans do have an effect on the environment, there are many on this forum who steadfastly refuse to make such an admission.

You're still unclear on the difference between the words "environment" and "global climate", seems like :-)

Kaa

[Kaa]

did they once die more frequently ?:D

Yep, they did.

If a village used to have a death each month and now a funeral is a once-a-year occurrence, then yes, people in this village used to die more frequently. Confused between the plural and the singular, are you?

Kaa

[George Roberts]

"There are lots of things wrong with the world that need our attention. We each have to pick our issues based on both what calls out to us and where we think we can make a difference. ...

Keep in mind as well that global warming is not just some fuzzy environmental issue with no real impact on human lives."

I think I will continue to spend my efforts to argue against fighting global warming.

While I don't expect to make a change on this forum, I believe that as long as some argue against fighting global warming the effect is that governments will not force unreasonable actions on all of us.

[ljb5]

You're still unclear on the difference between the words "environment" and "global climate", seems like :-)

It's not so much a "difference" as it is a "relationship." Perhaps even an "interdependence."

[Popeye]

.. people in this village used to die more frequently.

last i checked , the frequency with which death occurs in most mammalian species is approximately 1

:D:rolleyes::D

[Kaa]

last i checked , the frequency with which death occurs in most mammalian species is approximately 1

:D:rolleyes::D

You might want to check again and start with a dictionary. You seem to be a bit confused between the words "frequency" and "probability".

Kaa

[ljb5]

Oh, give it a rest, Kaa.

We all know what you meant, but they way you said it was pretty funny.

Popeye gave us a laugh by pointing it out. You're not going to help youself by playing an endless game of redefining what you said while accusing others of having misunderstood.

These were your words:
...people who live in Sahel don't die as early and as frequently as they used to.

That's not quite the same thing as "the freqeuency of deaths per constant number of people has decreased...."

You should have said simply, "people are living longer and the population is growing."

We've all had our chuckle already. Why don't you join us and then we can all move on?

[Milo Christensen]

Yeah, let's moveon.org to parsing this little gem of English competency:


. . .imagine a population of billions of people and their hundreds of millions of cars and coal plants. . . .

Lotta nerve tellin' folks to give it a rest.

[Kaa]

Well, conversations with Popeye tend to turn surreal around the third post, and positively Dadaist a few posts after that. I am curious where this one would go :D

And if I want to be anal-obsessive about words, why, a 'net forum is an excellent place for that :D :D I am not correcting your spelling (yet), am I? :D

Kaa

[Leon m]

If it means so much to you ...do something...talking aint gunna fix it YOU gotta get in there and get your hands dirty. "Walk the walk"

[George Roberts]

I would like to believe that I can die more than once, but like most others once will do it.

[Popeye]

You might want to check again and start with a dictionary.

kaa, you are fumbling with the 'mortality rate' or the 'death rate' for population statistics , thus ..

Mortality Rate

Relationship of the frequency of deaths of individual members of a group to the entire group membership over a particular time period.


let me know if you need anything else , ok ? :D;)

[Kaa]

let me know if you need anything else , ok ? :D;)

Ah, yes, please.

You said "the frequency with which death occurs in most mammalian species is approximately 1".

"Most" is not "all" -- presumably you know of some mammalian species where the probability of death is not 1. I would be very interested to learn what these species are.

Kaa

[Popeye]

-- presumably you know of some mammalian species where the probability of death is not 1.



yes, all the dead mammals ... :D:D:D

[Kaa]

yes, all the dead mammals ... :D:D:D

There is a distinct species of dead mammals? :eek: Or are they really undead? Beware of zombie bunnies!!!

Kaa

[Popeye]

"Most" is not "all" -- presumably you know of some mammalian species where the probability of death is not 1. I would be very interested to learn what these species are.

human species , having expired and who have no vital signs and are revived would be another example .. so yes 'most' , and not 'all' is the correctyist term

touche :D:D:rolleyes:

[ljb5]

Well, conversations with Popeye tend to turn surreal around the third post, and positively Dadaist a few posts after that. I am curious where this one would go :D

In all fairness, you both made good points... Popeye just happened to be a little funnier. :D

Kaa, you tripped up a little. We know what you meant, but it was worth a chuckle. You meant to say the death rate decreased. We understand that.

Don't embarrass yourself further with all this, "I meant to do it" hogwash. You're the one who is being surreal. We all understand what you meant to say -- and we all can see exactly what you did say... and there is a slight (albeit insignificant) difference between the two.

Have a chuckle and get over it.

[John of Phoenix]

One of my coworkers suffered a cardiac arrest a couple of weeks ago. They paddled him six times before he came back, so he actually has one under his belt already and conceivably could chalk up even more. (God forbid!!)

I suspect there may be a few folks on this forum with a similar story.

Probably not statistically significant though.

[George Jung]

Don't embarrass yourself further with all this,

Sorry, just have to laugh - getting that kind of advice from a worst-offender!

[Popeye]

kaa , we all know what it is you meant to say by proxy .. in context it is fine

now get over yourself

[ljb5]

Don't embarrass yourself further with all this,

Sorry, just have to laugh - getting that kind of advice from a worst-offender!

I'm having a hard time remembering the last time you were right about anything that was relevant and significant.

That seems to be the core of the problem.... significance.

I don't think it's worth two pages of chatter to discuss the difference between "death frequency" and "mortality rate." Big whoop. Who cares?

On the other hand, I do think it's worth our while to carefully examine the scientific basis of global warming --- or the political mechanisms underlying our Iraq war policy.

Some subjects are significant.... others just aren't worth so much attention.

I readily admit that I occasionally (perhaps even frequently) commit errors of spelling, typing, grammar and word use. Who gives a fukk?

If you can't look beyond such minor, insignificant issues far enough to important, relevant issues, you lack some element of reasoning and comprehension which makes us human.

How's that Iraq war going? Did they find them WMDs yet? How many Americans have died since Bush said major combat operations were over? Did they catch Osama bin Laden? Did the Bush administration commit a crime (or series of crimes) to force us into an unnecessary war?

Do you think those issues don't matter?

Why are some people afraid of answering (or even discussing) these questions... yet they think it's worthwhile to spend all day nit-picking grammar?

Which questions do you think we should pursue.... and which should we just let rest?

[brad9798]

I like peaches.

[George Jung]

I'm having a hard time remembering the last time you were right about anything that was relevant and significant.

Hold it right there, squirt, I can help you out. I was right, right here:

Don't embarrass yourself further with all this,

Sorry, just have to laugh - getting that kind of advice from a worst-offender!

If there is anyone else on this forum who comes even remotely close to rivaling you for arguing a point to death, even when it's as obvious as the nose on your face that you're wrong, I'd love to hear your nominee! You are in a(n) (under)class of your own, kid!

You might keep these words of wisdom close by (I'd suggest having them tattooed, backwards, on your forehead so you can read them clearly in the mirror each day, before attacking the forum again:

I don't think it's worth two pages of chatter to discuss the difference between "death frequency" and "mortality rate." Big whoop. Who cares?

I'm a bit disappointed in your clumsy attempt to 'change the subject'. I don't blame ya, understand; you look rather doltish, throwing a big hissy fit, then complaining about someone doing a pale imitation of your very style. But we'll agree on one thing; it's not a topic worthy of an on-going dialogue; just good for a lil' chuckle....

[ljb5]

If there is anyone else on this forum who comes even remotely close to rivaling you for arguing a point to death, even when it's as obvious as the nose on your face that you're wrong, I'd love to hear your nominee!

I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again, George...

If you ever have reason to think I've said something wrong, (either deliberately or by accident), feel free to present the evidence, the facts, the documentation.... or any other information which demonstrates that you are correct and I am mistaken.

I have offered this challenge for years to anyone on the forum and no one (you included) has ever been able to back up their claims.

As you are no doubt aware, I take great care to provide thorough and verifiable documentation to support the claims I make. It amazes me that you do not.

Put up or shut up.

[ljb5]

If you got the evidence, George, feel free to show it.

(Same goes for you Jeff, as always.)

Still don't know what you're claiming Jeff. After three years of arguing, the only thing we ever learned is that you falsely accused me of misquoting you---- you were mistaken about the voting demographics of Florida.... and you use the term "die hards" to refer to swing-voters.

You were wrong, wrong, wrong. Unlike you, I can back up that claim.

How come you can't?

[ljb5]

George, you asked who would be my nominee for arguing long, long after they are proven wrong?

My nominee would be Ironmule.

When I'm wrong, I admit it. When most people on this forum are wrong they just slink away and say nothing (like you're doing now).

When Jeff is wrong, he raises the issue over and over and over and over again.

[George Jung]

:D but sometimes, ya just have to! My observation is spot-on, Lil'; refute THAT if you can....

[ljb5]

Cop out. :rolleyes:

You said I'd been wrong. Please back up your claim or withdraw it.

When was I wrong?
On what subject?
In what context?
Proven by what evidence?

(I know what you mean, George... I feel awfully bad about needling a senile old man like you... but it's just too much fun. :rolleyes:)

[ljb5]

I dropped it at one point untill you misquoted me at a level I considered to be a deliberate lie. I then picked it up again.

I never misquoted you. At one point, you accused me of having reversed "Gore" and "Bush" in one of your quotes... but I did not. It was your mistake, not mine.


Kid, you like to argue. I don't.

Yeah, whatever. :rolleyes: You bring it up every chance you get. You've already admitted you were wrong. Now, you just like to get kicked around again and again.

Back in 2004, I said: (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/archive/index.php/t-30432.html)


Jeff, I'm pleased to see that you admitted your mistake. Clearly, you were thinking of Florida in the 50s (perhaps even up to 1996). I was discussing Florida in November 2000.

You did a good job of educating me on the history of the Democrats and I am happy to have educated you on the current state of the Republicans.

I hope this will be the last word on the subject.

Alas, that was more than 3 threes ago. You were wrong then and I've not brought it up since. Only you bring it up, not me.


I can take it on as a challenge, like cleaning a latrine with a tooth brush when the sergeant is trying to see if you'll break under pressure.

I think of you the same way.


Several forumites PM'd me during the exchange to tell me I was wasting my time.

I've had the same experience. :D


I presented you with reams of data about how rainy a spring it was in Texas when Bush did his face plant while mountainbiking. You used your elastic way with definitions of what "recent" and "rainy" meant.

The last rain was 30 days before the incident. Get over it.

Mission accomplished.


My objection to your posts, was not that Bush deserved protection, but rather that there ought to be some substance to political arguments.

More than three years of talking to you and I'm still waiting for you to produce some substance. :rolleyes: That's why I try not to talk to you much.

[ljb5]

My objection to your posts, was not that Bush deserved protection, but rather that there ought to be some substance to political arguments.

That's a very remarkable statement, Jeff.

Four years ago, even six years ago, I evaluated the available information.

I pointed out the corruption, arrogance and incompetence of the Republicans. I said Iraq was a bad idea. I said the Republicans would disintegrate in their own corruption.

I was not wrong. That's substance.

Most Americans have finally come around to see the evidence I saw five years ago.

You talk about substance now?

Maybe five years ago, you hadn't seen the light. Now you have.

[ljb5]

Seriously Jeff... here's a great chance for you.

What's your substance?

Give us your analysis.

What do you think of Bush?

The Iraq war?

Give us your analysis.

Am I wrong? Prove it.

[BrianW]

Ljb5,

Why does nearly every thread you participate in, end with you trying to prove others wrong, and you right?

Maybe Ishmael can do a study on the topic, and share it with us.

[ljb5]

Why does nearly every thread you participate in, end with you trying to prove others wrong, and you right?

Because being right matters.

Because five years ago, I saw we were going down the wrong path, and I felt it was worthwhile to point that out to somebody.

Because a lot of obstinate a$$holes need to be pounded with the truth before they'll acknowledge it.

Because even Republicans in the Senate are finally starting to see things the way some of us saw it years ago.

Because 3,600 Americans have died in Iraq and some people here don't think that's "substance."

Because those people who already know I'm right don't feel the need to argue about it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

A better question, Brian is why would anyone try to argue against that?

[BrianW]

It's just an observation. More defensive, and also offensive, than anyone else here.

[ljb5]

It's just an observation. More defensive, and also offensive, than anyone else here.

Sure, whatever.

Say whatever you want about me... I don't care.

How's that Iraq war going?

Find any WMDs yet?

You think a few thousand more Americans need to die over there?

Are we safer?

Are there fewer terrorists in the world?

How come all these Republicans keep getting arrested for stuff?

I really, really don't care what you think about me, Brian. I'm not vain. I simply don't care.

I stand up for what is right. I'll keep doing it even if you think I'm offensive.

I think you're offensive. So what?

[ljb5]

Seriously, Brian... a better question would be, "Why do some people on this forum constantly feel the need to argue with me.?"

They never present any facts. They don't use logic. They never back up any of their claims... they just argue.

When you realize that these are the same people who thought the Iraq war was a really super idea, it all becomes clear.

[Phillip Allen]

Seriously, ill-jay... I'll bet Gore doesn't have a belly button either!

[George Jung]

I posted my first comment after a nearly 20 post exchange between Lil' and Kaa (32 - 52), ending with Lil posting....

Kaa, you tripped up a little. We know what you meant, but it was worth a chuckle. You meant to say the death rate decreased. We understand that.

Don't embarrass yourself further with all this, "I meant to do it" hogwash. You're the one who is being surreal. We all understand what you meant to say -- and we all can see exactly what you did say... and there is a slight (albeit insignificant) difference between the two.

Have a chuckle and get over it.

Now having drawn the wrath of the Lil' Chimperor, I've been treated to
post after redundant post about anything but what I posted to:

I'm having a hard time remembering the last time you were right about anything that was relevant and significant.

How's that Iraq war going?

Put up or shut up.

Cop out. :rolleyes:

You said I'd been wrong. Please back up your claim or withdraw it.

But you get the picture.....
Lil', you're a great case study for aberrant behavior; with your permission, I'd like to use you for teaching rounds.....

And, for the record, I did not say you were wrong ..... don't know where you got that - maybe a guilty conscience?

The original point - my point - was that you yammered at Kaa for going on, ad nauseum, about some minor nuances in his posts (which you contributed to - the nauseum part), and then said:

Kaa, you tripped up a little. We know what you meant, but it was worth a chuckle. You meant to say the death rate decreased. We understand that.

Don't embarrass yourself further with all this, "I meant to do it" hogwash. You're the one who is being surreal. We all understand what you meant to say -- and we all can see exactly what you did say... and there is a slight (albeit insignificant) difference between the two.

Have a chuckle and get over it.

I like that last line the best - and you probably still don't get it!

[George Jung]

I posted my first comment after a nearly 20 post exchange between Lil' and Kaa (32 - 52), ending with Lil posting....

Kaa, you tripped up a little. We know what you meant, but it was worth a chuckle. You meant to say the death rate decreased. We understand that.

Don't embarrass yourself further with all this, "I meant to do it" hogwash. You're the one who is being surreal. We all understand what you meant to say -- and we all can see exactly what you did say... and there is a slight (albeit insignificant) difference between the two.

Have a chuckle and get over it.

Now having drawn the wrath of the Lil' Chimperor, I've been treated to
post after redundant post about anything but what I posted to:

I'm having a hard time remembering the last time you were right about anything that was relevant and significant.

How's that Iraq war going?

Put up or shut up.

Cop out. :rolleyes:

You said I'd been wrong. Please back up your claim or withdraw it.

But you get the picture.....
Lil', you're a great case study for aberrant behavior; with your permission, I'd like to use you for teaching rounds.....

And, for the record, I did not say you were wrong ..... don't know where you got that - maybe a guilty conscience?

The original point - my point - was that you yammered at Kaa for going on, ad nauseum, about some minor nuances in his posts (which you contributed to - the nauseum part), and then said:

Kaa, you tripped up a little. We know what you meant, but it was worth a chuckle. You meant to say the death rate decreased. We understand that.

Don't embarrass yourself further with all this, "I meant to do it" hogwash. You're the one who is being surreal. We all understand what you meant to say -- and we all can see exactly what you did say... and there is a slight (albeit insignificant) difference between the two.

Have a chuckle and get over it.

I like that last line the best - and you probably still don't get it!

[ljb5]

And, for the record, I did not say you were wrong ....


...even when it's as obvious as the nose on your face that you're wrong....


:confused: :confused: :confused:

This might surprise you, George... but I actually read your posts and respond to them as if you were a reasonable, intelligent person who uses precise words with specific meanings that bear a close correlation to reality.

When you say something is "obvious" I naturally assume you mean that it can be observed, documented and verified.

That I ask you to substantiate your claims merely reflects the fact that I have a modicum of respect for you (or at least the process of discussion.) If I thought you fool, I wouldn't ask you to defend your statements.

[Wild Dingo]

Oh for gawds friggin sake get the hell over yourselves! :mad:

[Phillip Allen]

Evnin Shane...how's the house commin?