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View Full Version : Black Powder = Explosive? OSHA



JBreeze
07-08-2007, 10:43 PM
I came across this stuff via a fishing board.....some feel the proposed regulations from OSHA may have a significant impact on retailers of reloading supplies and ammo.

I don't have any firearms, but those that do may want to keep an eye on the proposed regulation.

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main

OSHA-2007-0032-0001 is the document ID to use in "step 4" if you want to read the proposed rules.

htom
07-09-2007, 12:08 AM
I wouldn't be surprised; they once claimed that casein paint was dangerously flammable when they inspected my shop. Took them outside, poured some gasoline in a little cup, set it on fire, poured from a gallon of casein paint on the burning gasoline, putting it out. They went away, and came back a year later. They were going to write us up again for it, until I asked if they'd care to be present when I repeated the demo in court, and then outside for the local TV crews. They consulted headquarters, and went away angry.

Phillip Allen
07-09-2007, 05:43 AM
its all about bullying people into their bank accounts

Nicholas Carey
07-09-2007, 12:10 PM
Black powder has always been classed by the DoT as a class A explosive, along with dynamite, TNT, etc. Pyrodex and smokeless powders/cordites are class C explosives, much less restrictive in terms of shippability.

With certain restrictions on packaging and size, black powder for small arms (e.g, fffg) can be shipped as a class C explosive. The big difference is that black powder is pressure/impact sensitive; smokeless powders aren't and are therefore much safer to ship.

Not sure how bringing OSHA regulations into synch with DOT regulations of long standing is going to cause a problem. :confused:

htom
07-09-2007, 12:45 PM
More elaborate story: Of Arms and the Law (http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2007/07/osha_proposed_r.php)

Insanely difficult to read proposed rule. (http://www.nssf.org/share/PDF/FedReg041307.pdf)

On a quick reading, the brick of .22 in my briefcase has to be treated as if it's the contents of a major USMC ammo dump.

paladin
07-09-2007, 02:34 PM
A brick of .22 is nothing...I have an American 180 that uses 7 boxes of .22 per magazine.......in less than 20 seconds......so I guess they would call that the entire manufacturers production for a year....:D

JBreeze
07-09-2007, 03:18 PM
I tried to read the proposed rule before I posted last night.....Typical gov't stuff - a cure for insomnia.

What I got out of it was that the rules incorporate some new stuff from National Fire Protection Assn. (?) NFPA......so it sounds like your retailer may have an increased burden with lightening protection, location in relationship to other types of business, etc.

I realize some here do their own reloading and also use antique guns, etc. so I wanted to bring it to your attention so that you can determine through your clubs, retailers, etc. if it is a non-issue or something important to you. SOme guys were getting excited about this issue on the fishing board (many are hunters, also).

George Roberts
07-09-2007, 03:30 PM
The regulation seems reasonable. Explosives are explosives. Real explosives, fireworks, and gun powders should be treated the same.

Phillip Allen
07-09-2007, 03:45 PM
When my house burned last Feb, I hurried to the fire scene captain to inform him of the location of powder and ammunition in the house...he didn't get excited at all. The 7 or 8 pounds in the upstairs bedroom floor was trodden on till the cans were pretty well flatened...that was the HOT room and was guted...the black powder did not go off...I am still supprised...and impressed with the usefullness of keeping it in a heavy cardboard shipping container (designed to hold 50 pounds)

BTW it was FFFFFg, FFFFg, FFg and cannon grade

Phillip Allen
07-09-2007, 08:08 PM
BTW...I can and have made my own black powder...I think the sulfer would be the hardest part to supply regularly...the nitrates are easy if somewhat messy

George Roberts
07-09-2007, 11:42 PM
Phillip Allen ---

Wet cardboard certainly keeps the power from going off.

Phillip Allen
07-10-2007, 10:08 AM
OSHA is accepting comments until (07/12/07) on a proposed rule which would make the storing of powder/ammunition cost prohibitive for most dealers.
You may access the document at their web site here http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main
Select Occupational Safety and Health Administation from the first pull down menu, proposed rules from the second and subject from the category menu then type explosives in the blank space next to the category window. The title is OSHA - 2007 - 0032 - 0001. If you click on the docket ID, you can view the document and add comments.

Hwyl
07-10-2007, 10:36 AM
Black powder has always been classed by the DoT as a class A explosive, along with dynamite, TNT, etc. Pyrodex and smokeless powders/cordites are class C explosives, much less restrictive in terms of shippability.

With certain restrictions on packaging and size, black powder for small arms (e.g, fffg) can be shipped as a class C explosive. The big difference is that black powder is pressure/impact sensitive; smokeless powders aren't and are therefore much safer to ship.

Not sure how bringing OSHA regulations into synch with DOT regulations of long standing is going to cause a problem. :confused:

I agree. Black powder has always been treated with more precaution the modern stuff in the U.K. "conventional" wisdom has it, that it's because of Guy Fawkes and the gunpowder plot, but it may be for the reasons Nicholas stated.

Phillip Allen
07-10-2007, 03:29 PM
So...anyone care to look up the stats on just how often primers and/or black powder has caused the problems outlined/suggested? Can any perspective be had...say compared to electric shock while playing golf?

Hwyl
07-10-2007, 03:45 PM
So...anyone care to look up the stats on just how often primers and/or black powder has caused the problems outlined/suggested? Can any perspective be had...say compared to electric shock while playing golf?

I won't discriminate between the groups, a bunch of dead golfers or a bunch of dead muzzle loaders. It all improves the gene pool.