Solo camping designs

[Rick_Tatum]

Hi folks,

I'm new to the forum, and also a new again sailor. I am looking to build a good single handed sailer that can also manage a gross payload of 600+ lbs. I sailed a Lido 14 in my teens, 30 years ago, and in the last few weeks have been renting a Catalina E 12.5 at the local city park lake to refamiliarize myself with being under sail. I'd like to be able to carry two adults with camping gear and supplies for 2 or 3 days, or myself and supplies for 7-10 days if needed. I am an avid bowhunter, and would like to camp/cruise some of the big lakes in N. California where I reside that offer boat only access to excellent hunting. My preference is to be sans motor...good pulling under oar is prefereable. I am a skilled woodworker, but my only boatbuilding experience is a pair of skin-on-frame kayaks. Simplicity and economy are a plus. I'm not overly concerned with performance...ease of handling and reliability are larger factors, tho' I don't want a waterbourne slug either ;). I have been seriously eyeballing the Bluegill, as well as a couple of other potential victims. What say you good folks?

Thanks in advance,

Rick

[boatbear]

The Bluegill looks like it has a transom suitable for an outboard motor (invention of the devil etc, mutter mutter)

A dory of decent size will give you fast rowing and sailing, good carrying capacity and shoal draft. Here's my 18' Sea Chanty One Design - from John Gardner's 'The Dory Book'. Just the thing for lake exploration.

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL405/8230927/15385054/233164560.jpg

Good luck in your search.

[Thorne]

Welcome!

You've done a great job of defining your needs, which makes it much easier for us to give our advice -- whatever that may be worth.

What lakes are we talking about, and what sort of distances do you think you might travel per day? You might find that with the payload and distances in the Fall weather, an outboard might work much better than oars, particularly in windy or stormy weather.

From your description I'd guess you'll want a pulling boat rigged for sail -- which is what I have in my 13'5" Chamberlain dory skiff. I was pleasantly surprised at how stable the boat is, as I was expecting it to be much more tender under sail, but of course it can't compare to sailboats the same length. You'd want something a bit longer, I imagine, as it can only carry me and my camping gear and still be rowed any distance.

http://www.luckhardt.com/stnlgn06-2.jpg

Note that Redmond describes Bluegill as a "sailboat and outboard" utility skiff -- not really designed to be rowed I would guess, but good under sail and power, roughly #4 below.

The hull-design spectrum goes sorta like this:

1. Pulling-only boats - narrow, particularly at front and back, fast under oar, may not take an outboard at all.

2. Pulling boat rigged for sail - somewhat beamier aft, reasonably fast under oar and sail, may or may not take an outboard.

3. Sailboat that can be rowed - beamier center and aft, can only be rowed short distances in light winds, sails fast, takes a small outboard.

4. Outboard boat that can be sailed - wider and heavier than the sailboat, hard to row, takes a somewhat larger outboard.

Here's a thread that discusses sailboats for similar use -
http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=53902

The Christmas Wherry has beautiful lines, should row and sail well, and can take a small outboard -- the Honda 2hp aircooled is the current fave for many in the small boat crowd.

http://www.duck-trap.com/newwherry.html
http://www.duck-trap.com/cw-fwd.jpg

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

http://www.chebacco.com/mainpicture.jpg


http://www.chebacco.com/

[Woxbox]

I think Ian Oughtred is your man. Take a look at his Caledonia Yawl (which would be my choice given your requirements) and his other double-ended beachboats.
http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/mainpages/gallery?KID=34
Some think the Caledonia Yawl is a bit big to row, but it has tremendous capacity and real seaworthiness for its type.
Here's one in action, with a deep reef in the main on a blustery day:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f92/Woxbox/Caledonia.jpg

[Tom Lathrop]

A used Lido would be a good choice too. My favorite wooden boat for such use would be a B&B Core Sound 17.

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/

A proven design for both lakes and open water and the rig could not be simpler or easier to handle.

[chrisk]

I like Alaska by Kurylko. It's built for both sailing and rowing and you can add an outboard if you decide you want one:


http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/images/baja.jpg

http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/images/LT.jpg

It's strip planked construction and should row well. Check out:

http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/index.htm

He also has Myst which is more oriented toward sailing then rowing.

[Bruce Taylor]

I designed my Blackfly 14' for conditions similar to the ones you describe. I wanted a sailboat that could be used like a tandem canoe. It had to be able to carry 650 lbs pounds, but still be light enough to portage when necessary.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p7c493e6b55cce3456a7cffcdff35b772/e8bfcb55.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid69/p692e22ad191b2a34b8286168807b469b/fba70d52.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid172/pf8b2966c0fdb60f610178cef60ce5f34/f3c845e6.jpg

Until recently, free plans were available online, but I closed down the website a couple of months ago. If you're interested I could email the .pdf .

[Osborne Russell]

Is it legal to hunt from a boat? I've gotten closer to deer without even trying in a canoe than I could on land on my best day.

[rbgarr]

OB- Ever tried to carry a dead deer in a canoe ;>

Seriously though, the Walkabout design may suit: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/walkabout/index.htm

[Popeye]

i have heard of small game hunting with a shotgun from a boat , ducks and seabirds like turre (murre) , don't know about big game , it sounds wrong , it is especially easy to harrass a swimming animal from a boat , so i would guess no

[Osborne Russell]

No oarlocks? Do you paddle?

[David G]

The words that stuck out in your inquiry were simplicy & economy. Since I built one, I'm biased, but I'd consider a beefed up Goat Island Skiff, by Michael Storer.

http://www.storerboatplans.com/GIS/GISplan.html

It's about the simplest, most economical build around, especially given its size, short of a Puddle Duck Racer. For your use, I'd probably change the framing from Western Red Cedar to Douglas Fir. I might also be tempted to thicken the plywood on the bottom (and certainly on the thwarts) from 1/4" to 3/8 or 1/2". Other than that, she fits all the other desires quite well.

"There is no human problem which could not be solved if people would simply do as I advise" -- Gore Vidal

[Rick_Tatum]

Thanks for the replies gents. The various cat ketch designs by Oughtred look especially interesting. Having never sailed a two masted vessel of any sort, I must confess some trepidation at the thought. 17' LOA is about the limit that I can build due to available work space. I also don't want a project that will cost many thousands of dollars ( but not looking to go "cheap" either) and several or more months of time.

Bruce, your Blackfly looks like a real beaut'. How much does your example weigh? I'd certainly be interested in looking over the plans if that is ok with you.

The waters I intend to sail are Lake Shasta, Lake Sonoma near my home, as well as Tomales Bay and Bodega Bay in good weather.

[Rick_Tatum]

BTW, shooting big game from a boat is not legal in California nor most other states, and it isn't my intention to do so. The boat is to provide access to hunting areas that are accessable only by boat.

[David G]

Rick - Thought I'd give you a reference point. Maybe others can chime in with their own budget information. Our GIS, which I regard as a simple, economical boat, has over $2,600 worth of materials in it. We kept very good records, so that includes pretty much everything except the outboard. That, we use on several different boats, so didn't allocate to the GIS. It does include plans, materials, supplies, painting, sail rig, and a small, used trailer ($300). If one wanted to reduce costs slightly, one could skip the sail and go with oars and outboard. Our used 5hp 4 stroke Nissan cost us $512. The sail alone, without the (not inconsequential) expense of spars, varnish, lines and hardware cost $565.

Anyone else have hard data or good estimates to share?

"Save a little money each month, and at the end of the year you'll be surprised at how little you have" -- Ernest Haskins

[Rick_Tatum]

David,

Thanks for the information. $2,600.00 is pretty fair I'd say, and well within my budget. My main expense as far as supplies will be in the marine plywood. I want to use the best grade that I can aquire and am willing to shell some frogskins for it. Much of the other lumber I either have or can aquire for free or nearly so. I have 3k b.f. of clear v.g. doug fir that I milled some years ago, a goodly stock of other softwoods and hardwoods as well as a friend or two that are still doing custom milling, and I imagine that I can save a good portion of the material cost versus having to purchase all of it at market price.

[Todd Bradshaw]

http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/File0001%20copy.jpg

Getting them to lie still in the middle ain't bad....but getting 'em to walk again when you come to a portage is a real bitch! 1971 Old Town Canoe catalog photo. (judging by his pants, the guy on the right must have a tee time coming up soon...)

[Stiletto]

Love those trowsers.;) or are they trews?

[andrewe]

I was quoted about $1600 for the sails (main & jib)on my boat, 100sq.ft gunter sloop. Armed with Merino´s book and about $200 worth of sail cloth, I made my own. Very happy with the result. A local loft set the ss grommets in the corners and I borrowed a smaller tool for the rest. Had to budget for a few extra needles on the machine though. I checked out Sailrite, about $350, but was worried they might get stuck in customs.
Using basic tools (vise, angle-grinder, hand drill) I made all the fittings from ss keel band, 3x20 mm., left over from the 6mt. I had to buy.
I also built the trailer from car components from the local breakers yard, cost about $150, having brakes really helps single-handed launching. I realize that this is probably beyond the average buider.
Andrew

[Bruce Taylor]

Bruce, your Blackfly looks like a real beaut'. How much does your example weigh? I'd certainly be interested in looking over the plans if that is ok with you.


~80 lbs when I first built it, but since then I've added some bric a brac...brass oarlocks, blocks, fairleads etc.

Post a PM with your email address and I'll send a copy of the .DXF and/or .PDF.

Bruce

[Thorne]

I'd say it begins to come down to the "Outboard or no outboard" decision.

Tomales and Bodega I have done under oar, and are good unless the wind really kicks up. But Sonoma and Shasta would be very different -- lots of looooooong distance travel, and you could be fighting a strong headwind for many miles on those big lakes.

The two boats recently discussed really illustrate the best of each type -- the Blackfly could be beach-launched and recovered, possibly saving time and distance when compared to launching from a ramp. And the light weight would make it nice to row!

The GIS is a great example of a heavier boat that can be used very effectively with an outboard, and would probably sail in heavier weather than the Blackfly -- but I suspect would be a lot more work to row. Any it would require ramp-launching unless you're traveling with a strong friend.

BTW, I'm very familiar with the bottom of Lake Sonoma -- used to drive it frequently, and even worked there subcontracting through the Corps of Engineers transplanting sedges to below the dam before the lake was filled.

[David G]

The Goat Island Skiff doesn't row too badly. It really seems to be designed as a sailboat first, with oars and outboard OK, but not primary. It is fine for short distances with the 8' oars we stuck her with. I keep saying I'm gonna build some 9 footers. With all that freeboard, I think it would make a marked difference. The other issue is that there's quite a bit of rocker to that dory-like hull. One one hand, that seems to be good, with very little drag. She really scoots along. She's not all that heavy for her size, so the carry is only moderate.

On the other hand, she seems to be better at the slalom course than long, arrow-straight tracks. Mind you, I have not yet tried rowing with the rudder in place. I shall, and have high hopes that this will allow her to track well. My hopes, however, alas, have been dashed before. (Does anyone remember George McGovern's campaign?) She does row Quite Well with a substantial burden. I've loaded her with maybe 5-600 # of gear for a long weekend of comfortable camping with my teenage sons, added the three of us, and she rowed very nicely the 2+ miles to the campsite.

BTW, I've also loaded her with as many folks as would physically fit (I think it was 9 bods), and motered her up the slough, in very calm conditions. Fotos show still quite a bit of freeboard. She was quite civilized. In fact, the more heavily loaded, the more stable she feels.

The other issue, of course, with lots of freeboard is windage. I keep thinking I'm gonna struggle holding a course when trying to row (or motor) into a brisk headwind. The one time I encountered anything near those conditions, I had no problems, but time will tell whether a bit more wind will amplify the problem to a troublesome degree.

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive" -- Robt. Louis Stevenso