Pitch in the bilge

[david clack]

I have a small clinker wooden yacht. When she was built it seems that she had some pitch poured into the deepest part of the bilge.This allows the bilge water to gather at a point where it can easily be pumped out.
Can anyone advise what sort of pitch would have been used. It is now fairly hard and has been painted over. Is pitch a good preservative when used like this.Was this commonly done?

[ssor]

When I purchased my Islander 30( forgive me it is plastic) the bilge aft of the ballast was filled with what I perceived to be roofing tar. It was imposibly lumpy and had about a gallon of antifreeze (Prestone type) poured on it. (the boat leaked from the top). I washed it out as best I could, dried it and glassed the top of it. I wish I had built a sump in it for the pump.

[Paul Stohlman]

We put a mixture of pitch and bee's wax in the bilges of a 1924 spidsgatter we had re framed (80%) and replanked.

The idea was that it was flexable enough to allow the boat to settle into her new shape once she was in the water for a while. It would be easier to change or remove than cement.

The ratio wasn't exact science, about 2 parts wax. 1 part pitch.

[Bob Cleek]

Pouring pitch in the deep recesses at the keel aft in a wineglass hull section was commonly done. Actually, it is just hot roofing tar. The purpose, as you correctly surmised, is to prevent water from setting down in the nether regions of the bilge where the pump can't get to it. It should last darn near forever, since it went in hot and formed to fit the space. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[Thad]

The pitch used in these parts is not roofing tar but a tree pitch, pourable when heated and hard in an almost crystaline manner when cool. Kirby carries it but where it would be had in England I don't know.

[Canoeyawl]

Thad is correct, marine pitch is not roofing tar. I understand that it is the residue from the distillation of turpentine. As a preservative I have always found the wood under it in good condition (black and greasy!)A quick search under "marine pitch" found this UK site
http://www.tradboats.com/conglues.html

[Magwitch]

Jeffries Marine Glue poured hot would do the job if you can get it in the US.
IanW

[Bob Cleek]

Check your back issues of WB. In one, about a schooner Nat Benjamin was building, they used 3M "hot mop" roofing tar (hard, crystaline, melts when heated) to pay deck seams, as with Jefferies. They said it worked fine, as I've found when others used it to fill the bilge pockets. This is not "Henry's" soft asbestos fibre "wet patch."

[Paul Maselli]

I' restoring an Alden Sloop, the "Elliot White". Working with a damn good shipwright who has built several large vessels including "Sultana" the colonial schooner built in St Micheals MD. He suggest the use of pitch to create drainage and overcome the poor limber holes in the counter section of the stern. Pitch mixed with linseed oil so it's just solid in the summer heat. A penny should "float" on the surface sinking slowly into the mix. This proves the right consistancy in the winter. The pitch is Roofers Hot Tar heated just below a boil.

[ssor]

Paul, Close! Sultana was built in Chestertown,MD on the Chester River. St. Michaels,MD is on the Miles River. Nancy and I sailed down to see her under construction in October 2000. White oak on osage orange frames.
Ross in Bel Air, Md

[Paul Maselli]

I stand corrected. (never was too good with geography). Josh Herman is the Lead shipwright I am referring to, The Oak on Osage Orange is also correct. Josh has now taken up residence as the Lead Shipwright at our Long Island Maritime Museum in W.Sayville Long Island. Upon finishing the restoration of Priscilla he has joined on to work with me on the "Elliot White". BTW the Osage Orange sawn frames we installed in Elliot White's bilge are from off cuts of the Sultana Frames. Incredible wood... smile.gif Thanks to Al Terry for a contribution of Osage logs as well...

[ssor]

My wood encyclopedia also lists red mulberry as extremly durable along with osage orange and black locust. I like black walnut as interior wood for under foot, it is tolerant of wet feet and treated with teak oil stays nice looking.

[Cosmo Lengro]

;)

[Spissgatter W-9]

Having gone through a similar inquiry (see much earlier thread) I settled on roofing tar. Bought a big hunk for $5 from a roofing company and melted it over a BBQ outside in a makeshift double boiler. I used a coffee can with a makeshift spout and a ladle for tight spots. Seemed to work ok. I had a good pair of gloves and a pair of vice grips for a handle on the coffee can. An old coffee pot might be just the ticket. However, there wasn't much room to tip at stem or stern. You might want to make a dry run first.

[Andrew S/Y Rocquette]

I think what people are talking about here is "Stockholm tar" as distinct from a petrochemically-based roofing tar, and was made from the preserved tree stumps and roots of pine trees (often uprooted from bogs). These were heated in a reducing (i.e. sealed) atmosphere, which turned the wood to charcoal and the liquid which was expressed during the process was a thick gooey black turpentine substance. This was then heated, and either neat or mixed with beeswax, was painted onto wood as a natural waterproofing preserverative. I believe it is still used in Scandanavia for classic boats, including many 8mRs.

[Clan Gordon]

Can anyone advise what sort of pitch would have been used.
AS OTHERS HAVE ALREADY ADVISED, SOME SORT OF TREE DERIVED PITCH OR OTHER EQUIVALENT WOULD MOST LIKELY HAVE BEEN USED, BUT A ROAD TYPE TAR/PITCH MAY HAVE BEEN USED, DEPENDING ON THE ERA AND QUALITY OF BUILD. UP TO 100 YR AGO THE SOUTH EAST UNITED STATES PRODUCED AND EXPORTED A HUGE QUANTITY OF MARINE PITCH FROM THEIR SOUTHERN PINES (UNFORTUNATELY MOSTLY BY BURNING THE OLD GROWTH TREES RATHER THAN THE OLD ROOTS)

Is pitch a good preservative when used like this.
YES - AND AS FAR AS I KNOW THIS APPLIES TO BOTH TYPES - ALTHOUGH SOME MIGHT SAY THE ORGANIC TYPE IS BEST

Was this commonly done?
YES - VERY COMMONLY DONE - ESPECIALLY ON WORKING BOATS. YOU CAN PROBABLY BET THAT IF THERE IS A 100 YEAR OLD CLINKER WORKING BOAT SURVIVING ON THE WEST COAST OF SCOTLAND THAT IT HAD OR STILL HAS ITS ENTIRE INSIDE COVERED IN PITCH.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

As`Magwitch says, in the UK we use Jeffries No 2 marine glue for this job.

Why no 2? - 'cos they don't make no 1 any more.

Works fine.

[John Meachen]

Unfortunately,events have overtaken Andrew's post;according to September's Classic Boat the makers have gone into receivership.So now they don't make Number 2 either.There is some hope that the recipe could be sold to another manufacturer.

[Nicholas Carey]

Marine pitch, pine tar and other naval stores, including real gum terpentine, are manufactured by

Auson AB (http://www.auson.se/)

Auson AB
Verkstadsgatan 3
SE-434 42 Kungsbacka Sweden
tel: +46(0)300-562000
fax: +46(0)300-562001
info@auson.se
http://www.auson.se/

They can probably tell you where/how to order what you need.