Distributed utility grid batteries in EVs

[TMny]

A remarkable collaboration between Google and PG&E demonstrates (previously unimaginable) common interest between 1)alternative energy buffs, 2)EV/plug-in-hybrid drivers , and 3)electric utilities !!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/technology/19electric.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1182283560-+O7oH7055JfShBAZHfSSrg June 19, 2007
Google and Utility to Test Hybrids That Sell Back Power
By FELICITY BARRINGER and MATTHEW L. WALD
MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., June 18

{the battery packs aren't yet sufficiently refined/proven for broad adoption}
Excerpt: "The Prius that has been converted to allow two-way flows of electricity is a more speculative project. PG&E, the utility serving Northern California, will send wireless signals to the car while it is parked and plugged in to determine its state of charge. It can then recharge the batteries or draw out power. "

In a 1998 publication by a long-time wind energy proponent/consultant , Paul Gipe suggested that the batteries in ElectricVehicles could be used to store utility power, or wind power. [Utilities use their cheapest power for their largest 'base' load, and need employ more expensive power for 'peak' demands].

Thus the same energy storage devices can 1) power cars more economically than traditional IC engines {economical when the battery price drops with scale!}, 2) store windpower for still times, 3) balance peak loads &/or improve power quality for utilities . Distributing the cost of the battery over the multiple uses effectively decreases its price. The utility grid would need be upgraded before the full benefit of the 'grid storage' could be realised. Ideally the inverter in the EV/hybrid (or associated with the battery package) would interface with the utility....

[Dan McCosh]

So instead of driving your car during the day, you leave it in the garage to provide electric power for office building air conditioners. But then you wouldn't need the A/C, since nobody would be able to get to work...

Should help lower greenhouse gases.

[WillW]

On efficiency grounds, it seems a bit of a stretch to have cars contributing to electricity supply. Any juice that's "left in the tank", I'd want to have for the next trip. This is of course depends on developing efficient batteries for plug-in hybrids.

[Vince Brennan]

It also depends on whether or not the auto makers will ever actually come out with an electric car that has more than 70 miles charge.

Interesting (and frustrating) documentary available on NetFlix: http://tinyurl.com/2frfd2

"Who killed the Electric Car?"

[Bob Roncace]

Don't hold your breath waiting for the current crop of automakers to do anything positive regarding electric cars. They've spent many years and millions of dollars killing off the electric cars they had. Vince already pointed out "Who Killed the Electric Car?"

On the other hand, there are some new-starts with big bankrolls out there just about ready to put realistically useable and fun electric cars back on the streets. See, for example, http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php . Now before anyone can carp at me, let me be the first to admit that their $98,000 price tag is way out of reach of most people, and especially if you're already supporting a boat habit. However, they've pledged to continue to develop new models down market (that is, cheaper) in coming years. I'm hoping...

[paladin]

Charging systems are becoming more effective all the time, efficiency is really climbing.

[Bob Roncace]

Charging systems are becoming more effective all the time, efficiency is really climbing.

Chuck;

You'd know better than I, so let me ask. Although some charging systems are better than others, isn't the real limiter to charging speed the chemistry of the battery; meaning, the battery's ability to reabsorb charge?

[LeeG]

which is where the new lithium batteries come in.

[Bob Roncace]

which is where the new lithium batteries come in.

Right. Better than the NiCd, NiMh, Lead Acid, etc... But even the Lithium Ion batteries have a limit to how fast you can push charge back into them. They'll overheat if charged too quickly possibly leading to rupture of the case. If I'm recalling what I've read correctly, they'll also overheat if discharged too quickly. Tricky.

[Popeye]

some of the first ic engines ever built were also tricky and so poorly designed they could not produce enough power to move their own weight

adding capacity to the grid is what it's all about , the battery will slowly dissipate (leak) away its charge over time anyway , it only makes sense to put it back on the grid if its idle