career/life advice/boat building career?

[deltabrent]

OK this is a big question. I'm not a regular on here. Rather I've only posted once about a 22 foot life boat I found this winter that I did not buy.

I've been doing some major life planning/thinking and am trying to decide wether to become a professional woodworker OR do what my parents want and become a high school art teacher.

I finished a fine arts degree a year ago and have been working at a pub as a waiter ever since. I'm 25 and when I'm not playing in a band or working I'm in the shop building a guitar or a skin on frame kayak, a traditional inuit paddle, a table etc....

I love it and find it quite fulfilling my artistic side and exactly what I want to do on my day off.

So my question is if I decide to do this what would people recommend for school and areas of focus that would be more feasible as jobs.

I realize that alot of areas are less profitable. I've considered the Sylvia bay boat building schools ship cabinet program as an option and then possibly continuing to the boat building program.

I'm really just looking for advice, stories, recommendations and thoughts from those with experience.
Thanks for your time!

[gkl]

At your age you have plenty of options. How far are you from the boat building school? Go spend a day there and talk to the staff and some students.

I attended the Northwest School of Wooden Boat Building in Port Townsend, Washington back in 1998/99. At that time the full course was nine months long. It is now 12 months and they are located in Port Hadlock, a few miles down the bay.

I recommend you take both the cabinetry and boat building courses as they complement each other. These courses open up several directions you can go job wise. Furniture, musical instruments, finish carpentry, boat building and teaching. The courses also fit well with your fine arts degree.

Regards, Gary Larkins

[kc8pql]

Here's the best advice I can give. I've made a living in a one man shop building high end cabinets, furniture and architectural millwork for the last 35 years. Aside from the obvious, being able to do the work, success largely depends on your location. Your clients are the wealthy. If your not where they are you won't be able to charge enough to make a reasonable living.

[outofthenorm]

Your clients are the wealthy, (so be) ... where they are...

Of all the advice you might get here - make sure you pay attention to this bit and make business decisions accordingly. It's blindingly obvious - and often ignored by the young and eager.

Best of luck. - Norm

[Bruce Hooke]

do what my parents want and become a high school art teacher.

From what I've seen, to succeed at teaching you really have to have a love of teaching. The many annoyances you will put up with will only be tolerable if the actual teaching really energizes you.

[Michael s/v Sannyasin]

given the sorry state of funding for art, particularly at the high school level, I can't think of a more at-risk position than a high school art teacher. Not only that, but I'd have to wonder at how rewarding it would be. In high school, kids are in class because they have to be, you might find yourself trying to inspire half motivated students that are really just trying to get out of taking advanced math or something.

If you teach, teach at a college level, or maybe even through a private adult education company. The pay would be better and the students more motivated.

That said, I would suggest you'll get more enjoyment out of being some sort of craftsman/artist. Find the area you like the most... maybe you like to turn out canoes, maybe make tables. You could become known as The One to go to for that particular item.

Or, you can have a trade that is in more demand, like cabinet making. You'll probably be able to make a better living that way, but it may not be as fulfilling creatively.

As mentioned above, look around at what the market is, in the place you want to live. In a place like Port Townsend, you could probably get a lot of business just doing brightwork. Figure out what most people can't/won't do themselves, figure out where those people are most concentrated, and most affluent, then go there and offer those services.

Good luck!

[deltabrent]

well I am situated on vancouver island B.C. and this is turning into a retirement community fast. Lots of people are building houses/renovating old ones. There is definetly money here. Its also prime boating area. The boating school I looked at is an hour away driving and ferry time. So its close. I'll probably go check it out this week some time.
Thanks

[Yeadon]

Just follow your gut. In the end, your parents will still love you.

There is something to consider when you go the independent route, however. If you set out to be a boatwright, or professional woodworker, or whatever it is you choose, then you're not so much becoming a craftsman (because it appears that you already are one) but a small business owner. My advice would be to learn how to create a business plan. And learn to stick to it. It's not that tough.

Being good at the business end will allow you to remain a professional craftsman for a long, long time (and that will lessen the chances of you having to take jobs that you don't really want).

I'm not sure if any boatbuilding schools teach their students start-up skills, but it would be a worthwhile curriculum for them to pursue. After all, if a school's students don't do well in their professional lives, who will send the the alumni donation checks?

[Bruce Hooke]

Just follow your gut. In the end, your parents will still love you.

There is something to consider when you go the independent route, however...


And keep in mind that as tempting as it is to hang out your own shingle right away, there is much to be said for first working for someone else for a while. You get to get paid to learn how things work in real life in your chosen field.

Of course in some fields this simply isn't possible.

[Paul Pless]

I'd say go for it. You've already got the background education to be an art teacher to fall back on, what's the absolute worst that a year spent at a boat building school could hurt that career.

[skuthorp]

These days a 'career' can mean 10-12 years, life moves on, priorities change, technology changes. Do both, keep your options open and BE FLEXIBLE about opportunity. At your age all things are possible. I can even see some synergy in the 2 'careers' you mention. Go for it!
(and be VERY CAREFUL with table saws - yes, ouch again)

[Jim Ledger]

Follow your heart.:rolleyes:

But first...

Find a nice patient girl who has a good job that includes family health benefits and marry her.:cool:

[pcford]

Follow your heart.:rolleyes:

But first...

Find a nice patient girl who has a good job that includes family health benefits and marry her.:cool:

Amen, brother!!

Never forget that it is a business.

[kc8pql]

But first...

Find a nice patient girl who has a good job that includes family health benefits and marry her.:cool:

That may be even more important than a good business plan. It was for me. ;)

[kc8pql]

this is turning into a retirement community fast. Lots of people are building houses/renovating old ones. There is definetly money here.
At first thought that would seem to be ideal, but if you want to do interesting, creative work, it's not. Retirees, even those with money, are into downsizing and preserving their income so it lasts as long as they do and they can pass some on to the kids. They already have most everything they want. The ideal client is a well established business or professional couple in their late 30's or 40's. Household income is well into six figures and still rising. They drive Land Rovers and Mini Coopers. They're trendy and like cutting edge design. If you can find a place with a high enough concentration of them and can give them what they want you can do OK.

[deltabrent]

There is this program called Community Futures in B.C. that gives grants to people starting their own business. Its a course that covers business plans, market research and other aspects of starting and when your done you get a tidy cheque. Its pretty awesome. I think you have to be on employment insurance. I've thought that doing this after the school would be a smart next move.

[Michael s/v Sannyasin]

That does sound like a smart next move. And, it sounds like you're going about the whole process in a very intelligent way, I think you'll do well! Go for it.

[Jim Ledger]

This is the sort of thing KC is talking about. Second homes of the newly wealthy.

If you can get the cabinet contract for places like this then you can make a living. But, nobody wants to hear about you're artistic vision. They pay others to think up the vision thing. The job is to build what they want and make the problems go away.

And the customers, some are OK, all are impatient and some you hope to never see again.

It's all about being good ,versatile and putting out a lot of work in a short time. If you want to make Adirondack guideboats in a garage you will have about ten potential customers in the entire country. You've got to be able and willing to tackle everything.

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[Tom Robb]

That ideal wife was good advice. Maybe not so much for her, however.
So would understanding how to mind the store.
Aside from your craft and artistic vision you have to make the business work.
Unless, of course, you like the idea of being found dead in an unheated shack - the ahead of his time artist whom no one understood.

[Spokaloo]

Here is a left field view that a couple of us might reccomend.

Get hired as a Firefighter. Due to the working conditions and educational requirements, most healthy, able bodied high school grads and college grads qualify. Its a good living wage job.

On top of that, a majority of people on the job carry day off jobs. There is your opening to have benefits, pay, and a smaller than usual time commitment, plus your woodworking business.

As an example, today I am putting the cockpit sole and bow seats in my boat. I will put in 40 hrs on my boat, 48 hours at work, and still hang out with my wife each night. Oh, and I might go catch some bass tonight also!

You have to be prepared for some bad days and some worse days, but overall, I can't reccomend highly enough this path.

E

[Wild Wassa]

Jim L, you couldn't have summed up the boat restoration business better.

"The job is to build what they want and make the problems go away."

That is the boat restorer's lot in life.

"And the customers, some are OK, all are impatient and some you hope to never see again."

Some are fiercely impatient. The good clients are worth a million ... but then they have to be.

"It's all about being good, versatile and putting out a lot of work in a short time."

The heavy workload is a bit wearying at times ... that reminds me, I actually have a boat not just everyone elses. I'll go and pat my boat today, just to let her know that I'm still around. That is what it can be like.

There is one other thing. Clients are absolutely friendly and carefree until the boat is almost finished, then they get overly territorial about their boats. It is probably caused by their guilt and lack of participation and the fact that the boat caddy/restorer has a greater afinity with their true love than they do.

Deltabrent, if your area is turning into a retirement community, you will be amongst what's called 'The Heritage Fleet' or the 'Life Style Fleet' and where they moor their boats ... is known as 'Jurasic Boat Park'.

These elderly people need boat maintenance and boat caddies, make your money doing repairs and build boats on the side ... although I doubt you will have much time for boat building when you have an in with a 'Heritage Fleet'. Start crewing on their boats ... the quickest in to the industry, that you can get.

... and if you construct a business plan, make this your openning statement, "It is all about the finish" ... in my case its the refinish.

Warren.

[deltabrent]

again thank you. I like the Jurassic boat park. Its basically what its like here. Most are fiberglass though. I'm going to talk to some local cabinet makers, Go to the boat school and see what that leads to next. I'll keep you posted everyone. Your opinions and thoughts are exactly what I needed and I appreciate it!

[Tom Robb]

I hear Microsoft needs talented software engineers. Pays pretty well and Redmond WA isn't too far from home for you.
Then there's geriatric medicine - a hot field as the Boomers hit the skids.

[Steve Lansdowne]

Whatever you decide, realize that it is not necessarily forever, just for now. If you like it well enough, you may continue in it. If not, you've got time to pursue other interests jobwise. What your parents want for you won't necessarily satisfy you.

[Wild Dingo]

well I am situated on vancouver island B.C....

Somewhere right close and handy to one Paul Gartsides if Im not mistaken :cool: ... go have a yarn to Paul and Barb say gidday from their mates here (note: take the slap as a given ;) a token woodenboat forum love tap :p ) and find out the ins and outs of the whole WOODENBOAT deal in your area which as I understand it is thriving... but since Im way the buggery downunder what would I know about Canada? :o other than the sheilas who are aweflaminsome in anyones book... ahem but I digress ;)

Go talk to Paul and Barbara mate... be worth the time even if just to stand and gawk drool an run loving hands over his "artwork" now thats a man Id spend a week or two just sitting quiet and listening to! :cool:

[mamllc]

I run my own boat restoration business, so I may have some usefull insight. My biggest mistake was waiting too long to go on my own. I have worked in the cabinet industry, and decided to take a diffferent path for a number of reasons. There is a lot of competition which drives the price down. The work gets very boring, after all a cabinet really is nothing more than a box. The jobs are mostly short term, and a lot of unpaid hours are spent quoting or looking for work. There are some pros too, but overall I thought that the cons outweighed them. In my restoration work the jobs are long term. I dont worry about gettting paid, I have their boat untill I do. Location doesn't mattter, almost all my work comes from out of town. I also think that it can be better to cater to peoples wants than to their needs. People love to spend money on their hobbies, and hate to spend on necessities.
The Hard part is getting started. While I was still building cabinets I bought an old Chris Craft, a pattern boat, and completely rebuilt it, with carefull documentation of the whole process. When finished I put a for sale sign on it and started attending boat shows. I sold the boat and in the process made enough contacts to get the business off the ground.
Woodworking is a big umbrella, use your imagination. Find something that you can do that people will pay you to do. If it also turns out to be something you like doing, you will have achieved something most people only dream of.
David M

[MarkC]

I finished a fine arts degree a year ago

:D :D ahhh the memories.

If you are a good writer, a good arguer, 'present' well to people - go into Public relations. fast paced.

Even faster paced - journalism (blaah- yuck!)

If you like the 'theory' side of your fine arts degree, can write a bit, can argue - then work for your government. They will help you and you can end up with some good responsibility. With the broadcasting regulators, dept. of culture? Or any of them really, immigration, the government radio stations etc. Feel good about yourself jobs that dont pay heaps. But - sometimes...

Were you into paints and plaster? What about house renovation? - always work available.

- the 'traditional' paint companies. lot of interesting stuff to learn there. There is a traditional paint company in the USA who supplies Leaded paint to historical restorations. They use all the old techniques - make Japan black, powdered lead, caesin, hide glue etc.

Or the folks who make the plaster decorations/ornaments for historical renovations. Some make artificial stone. Stacks of old recepies, techniques to learn and remember.

Plasterers and those who make the decorative finishes 'on site' on historical buildings are probably the hardest-working people I have ever met. Hell job.

Carpentry :confused:

Boats! :p

Sound like hobbies!

[bamamick]

Good questions and great answers. I wish you the very best, Brent.

If I may offer one piece of advice and something to think on: as callous as it may sound, money is very, very important to your happiness. I am not talking about riches, just enough to pay the bills, but when the truck needs a new alternator or tires, or your daughter wants to attend a soccer camp, or your dog has to go to the vet for some work, it is amazing how important it is. Macaroni and fishsticks is nothing. A family can live off of that stuff and be happy forever as long as there is love in the house. It's those other things that grind on you and wear you down over the years.

As others have suggested, just cover your bases. By all means follow your dreams and your interests as far as they can go, but be flexible enough to know that one day your priorities may change quite a bit.

God bless.

Mickey Lake

[Larry P.]

Ok here's my $.02. Get whatevern certification you need to teach high school, I'm not sure what is required in Canada. Once all of your education is finished then pursue your woodworking/boatbuilding dreams. An education is something you will always have. A teaching certificate is something you can fall back on if you have it.

Boatbuilding is wonderful but.. it is also hard work, dirty at times and often hard to find. Plus we all get older hands get arthritis, tools get heavier, eyes get weaker etc. Taking an extra year or two in school now to become a certified teacher could be a great insurance policy.

[Nanoose]

Hi fellow Vancouver Islander, from a woodenboat owning teacher!...

Some thoughts:
1. Michael's observations re teaching above do not hold in Canada (BC curriculum, etc.). And, with the baby boomers all hitting retirement, there is going to be a shortfall in teachers in the next 4-5 years - i.e. there aren't going to be enough.
2. Education is never wasted, even if you were on a couple of sub lists while you got a business up and running....or you taught and started a business on the side until it was established and you could confirm demand before going for it full time. Finish up the one year left and have a profession in your back pocket "in case".
3. Lots of boats around here, yes, but our shipwright friend isn't finding work, and most of the shipwrights he knows had a DRY winter. Location, location, location on this one for sure....Nanaimo? Sidney? etc.
4. It sounds like your heart is in the shop more than the classroom, but considering the above combo, you'll keep as many options/doors open as long as you can, which is always a good thing.

All the best!

[Paul Girouard]

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Some good answers guys , but Jim , ah when are these guys going to put on some sheathing:eek: No shear issue on Lungun Island :confused:

[Jim Ledger]

No shear issue on Lungun Island :confused:

That's pronounced Lawng Eye-lint by those who live here.:D

As for the sheathing, I wish the framers would get a move on and close the darn thing in so I can start a new thread.;)