Electrolysis- removal of rust, and what else?

[hansp77]

So I bought myself a bunch of lovely old tools from the local trash and teasure market and have started on restoring my first plane (just an old Australian Stanely copy- a Falcon-Pope 9").
This gave me a chance to learn how to remove rust using electrolysis, something I have wanted to learn for a while..

So, after reading up on a few online articles about it, this arfternoon I got a new car battery charger, with big plastic bucket, lectric salts, and a couple of lengths of scrap stainless tubing as anodes- I have it all set up and it is bubbling away happily.
I can't really show results yet, but am wondering what else can be done with this basic set up.

Is it right that one can remove chrome this way?
Also, what happens to brass parts treated this way?
(I couldn't get the brass adjustment wheel off, so that has been in for a little while which I will go check on now, to see if it will budge)

any discussion on methods, tips, success's and failures are welcome.

[hansp77]

Ok, brass adjustment wheel still wont budge, and other than being a bit shinier, doesn't seem any worse for the wear.

My other main quesiton is,
I simply got an entry level, cheapo battery charger.
I needed one for my boat anyway, but don't really know if it is worth getting a bigger/more complicated one.
I can take this one back tomorrow, if I have to, but the price difference is from the $20 one I have now, for a range of ones up to $100.
Any recomendations of this would be great (ie the most recomended charger for doing electrolysis, and for charging my cold cranking battery on the boat).

Cheers,
Hans.

[nedL]

Electrolysis is a very popular rust removal method for the "antique engine crowd". They can take an 80 year old stationary engine that has been sitting out in a field for decades, drop it in an electrolysis tank and within a day or so pretty much push the piston right out. I haven't used the process myself yet, but I've seen some pretty amazing before & after rust removal pictures.

[nedL]

Hans.. It looks like we were cross posting. As I said I haven't used the process, but for some advise from the 'experts' I'd suggest going to the web site "Smokstak" and asking on their antique engine forum, it is a regular topic of discussion there. They are to antique engines what we are to wooden boats.

[hansp77]

thanks ned,
I am pretty sure that 'smokstak' site came up in a few of my searches, so I well read a bit deeper into it.

It certainly is fun.
I have been thinking about using the method to help restore my old stuart turner inboard, while still inboard my boat. I has been begging for a paintjob at the very least, for a while now.

What you can do apparantly, is, rather than submerging the entire object to be de-rusted, you wrap it in rags that are kept wet with the lectric salt solution, connect the negative to the object (engine block) and the positive to the cathodes burried in the wet rags (but not touching the object).
It may be easier than pulling the whole engine out (which frankly I just am not going to do).

Thanks.
Hans.

[nedL]

Now that's a pretty neat idea! It could take a bit of work to get the wet rags in contact with most of the surfaces, but I guess it would work fine.

[Mrleft8]

Apparently it works for unwanted hair removal too....

[The Bigfella]

Ahh - thanks Lefty - I'm not sure tha I needed the mental image of Hans attaching electrodes to his unwanted hairs

[Frank Wentzel]

Hans

If the $100 charger says its a three step charger you may find that it is the most economocal one in the long run. If you leave batteries on the cheap charger too long you will destroy them it short order. The three step type shut down and won't overcharge your battery.

/// Frank ///

[Dave Fleming]

www.yankeetoys.org/lee/electrolysis.htm (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/www.yankeetoys.org/lee/electrolysis.htm)

[seanz]

Never heard of rust removal via electrolysis before (hair yes rust no)
So I'll be off out to the shed to find something rusty,shouldn't be hard.
If I should ever seek to justify the amount of time I spend on this forum #1 reason;I learn new stuff. :cool:

[Thorne]

There have been some other threads on battery chargers -- worth a search. I got the home-style three-step "smart charger" one from Waste Marine with the fan, now wish I'd gotten the smaller solid-state 'on-board' model without fan, as the fan runs 7/24 even when the charger isn't charging (battery is topped off).

[The Bigfella]

Never heard of rust removal via electrolysis before (hair yes rust no)



I've heard and seen it, but don't recall the details

[pipefitter]

With the same battery charger,you can anodize all of your aluminum parts pretty easily as well. You can either chemically polish them or machine polish them. It's pretty simple. The results are quite fantastic even done at home. Some aluminum alloys will turn black with the process so you kind of have to know what you have to start with but most will anodize fine.

http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize99.html

[George Ray]

My guess is that most of the 'Smart' battery chargers will NOT WORK for anything other than charging batteries. This is a case where simpler is better. Maybe an electronics guru will wade in here but my experience is that the 'Smart' charger used this way will likely tell you that (a) the battery is bad, or (b) charge complete or some such and will save you from yourself and shut down the output.
I use a manual 30 amp battery charger and a small variac as my adjustable low voltage power supply and manually adjustable current battery charger.

[hansp77]

Thanks for the reply's everyone,

that link was really interesting pipefitter,
George, I think you are right about the charger for this, simpler is better.
I will be keeping this little cheapo one for elcrolysis as it is working a treat, and get a new one specifically for my boat at a later date.

for anyone that isn't familiar with the details, this article (http://www.htpaa.org.au/article-electro.php) lays it out pretty clearly,
the ratio of lectric salts I am using is one teaspoon per pint of water.
One very handy thing I have done is to buy a small bag of electric cables (very thin) from Dick Smith (is it something like Radioshack in US?) with little alligator clips on the ends. This allows you to do multiple parts at once, and saves you from having to painfully wire up each part as I was doing first. While the copper would disolve if it was on the positive end, because it is on the negative (with your part being stripped) it does not.

I have stripped all the parts from my old plane, and have just done the final coat of epoxy enamel, and am currently varnishing the wood, I have done a lovely big old G-clamp (with the date 1888 cast into it) which came up very nicely, and have done a range of old tarnished brass bits and peices.
The brass gets it's crusty layer of green corrosion knocked off pretty easy and quick and comes out a sort of burnished colour (as the steel comes out a grey colour), this layer is real easy to scrub off if you want to take it off. For some things, as my old G-clamp, it is nice to leave most of it on.

This has been great, lots of fun, and such a time and object saver. For some reason I tend to spend a lot of time brushing off rust from things I am salvaging and restoring, inevitably leaving marks from the wire, and no doubt breathing in a fair bit of rust... never again.
If you have anything to de-rust, you gotta try this.
I am pulling all sorts of old cleavers and things out cupboards and boxes to derust.

[Rob Stokes, N. Vancouver]

I'd switch the stainless anodes for regular iron or steel. The anode is sacrificial, which means you're turning it into vapour over time. I'm not sure what's in the stainless you're using, but it should have a a chromium component at a minimum - something I'd rather not be ingesting.

Rob

[willmarsh3]

I could not click on the Yankeetoys link at first so I fixed it here

http://www.yankeetoys.org/lee/electrolysis.htm

Also another technique of rust removal that does not involve electrolysis is using a solution called Evaporust. I soaked some rusty engine parts in this yellow, nontoxic liquid for about a week. They came out a dull gray color. The liquid turned black as it got used up and was ok to pour down the drain.
But this electrolysis seems like a simple enough process that I will try it myself.