CPES and my Hull.....HELP????

[Fingerlakes Boater]

Well I have more and more questions about my pending restoration. I have read almost all pertinent post regarding CPES. None of them really touches on the proper or recommended application. On my project, '65 PLY Flagship, in am interested in it wood preservation properties. Although it isn't clear to me about the paint on my existing hull. I have decided to repair what's in place. Which means that I will strip paint, but should I strip all paint including bottom paint?? The boat has been out of the water for about 5 years. I have not found any evidence of sever separation of the joints.

Basically what it boils down to is can my entire hull be treated with CPES?? And will it require me to strip all paints??

I know it may seem that I am beating a dead horse, but I just want to perform an accurate and purposeful repair and restoration. I want to do it right, not just do the minimum to get her in the water. Thanks to all.
:(

[TimothyB]

What you need to do before making any of these decisions is to get a copy of "Wooden Boat Renovation" from The Woodenboat Store (http://www.woodenboatstore.com/store/Home.asp). Read it as many times as it takes to understand it, and THEN start planning your renovation. You'll have a basic groundwork from which to proceed.

--T

[Fingerlakes Boater]

Tim,

Have read the book. Actually that book, and visiting a close friend in Boston about 5 years ago is what cast the "Wooden Boat" spell on me. Much to my wife's dismay, I have purchased just about every wooden boat restoration publication I could get my hands on. The reasons for my asking many questions on this subject is the fact that many on this site have used said methods and products. In my own experience I have found that hands on knowledge is the best and most accurate source of information. Hence the forum titled "Building/Repair".

[Buddy]

I've used CPES, but not in "every" application. Its real long suit seems to be in preparing a surface on sound wood to which paint or varniah will tenaciously adhere. Truly does so.

Its second purpose is to be able to deeply penetrate rotting wood ( how far in, how far gone?)and replace, in function, the lost lignin that once bound the fibers. It alleges to both return the strength to the wood ( again how much) and prevent the return of moisture which in effect arrests the advance of the latent rot spores still in the wood. As I understand it, CPES itself doesn't kill the spores. Borate compounds, ethylene gylcol are used to do that first for a more thorough approach.

Lots of people here suggest the thorough approach is to cut away all the rotted wood and then some ample margin of sound wood, then replace with entire new components or dutchman inserts, and assemble with traditional farsteners and bedding, or epoxy techniques. For the size of the boats and the rot problems I've encountered, this has been my approach.

I have in the past used a somewhat similar penetrating epoxy product, GitRot, on "minor" problems in the corners of mahogany hatches and pilot house windoe frames, wood toerails and trim strips and such and it seems to work great. But I'm not relying on these injected parts for the structural or watertight integrity of these boats.

It's a judgement call, yours, and I know you're looking for testamonials to review.

Without a doubt, if you're wanting the paint gripping property, you'll have to get back to bare wood first. You cannot slather CPES onto a painted finish and have it magically penetrate to the wood below. Fixing, to some degree, soft spots in problem areas under a finish can be done by drilling many, many, small holes and using a syringe. Then you fill and spot paint. I can think of many places I would be satisfied with this practical solution to extend the life of an existing deck, gunnel or sheer clamp, transom corner, or such and at least postpone., maybe eliminate a major repair. But not a chainplate, rudder gudgeon, rudder tube, mast spreader or forestay fitting. You get the idea.

What are you faced with on this large vessel? If the old paint is tight, just faded and chalky, and the wood underneath "taps" sound no way would I do an overall strip. I would sand and recoat and spend my time enjoying the boat. "If it ain't broke,don't fix it.

If the paint, particularly the primer, is peeling and popping off in many places all over the boat, no way would I do just spot repaisr and then do a fine overall refinish, because I would predict"new" spots underneath that finery would continue to pop and peel. Sometimes it's possible that only one side of the hull or deck house, or just say the transom, baked the life out of the paint in the sun so you can get away with less full stripping. But you can't justify putting new paint over "bad" paint thinking you've painted over the problem. That's why a regular paint maintenance program is less work in the long run. Has this boat been "let go"?

Good luck.

[Buddy]

I've used CPES, but not in "every" application. Its real long suit seems to be in preparing a surface on sound wood to which paint or varniah will tenaciously adhere. Truly does so.

Its second purpose is to be able to deeply penetrate rotting wood ( how far in, how far gone?)and replace, in function, the lost lignin that once bound the fibers. It alleges to both return the strength to the wood ( again how much) and prevent the return of moisture which in effect arrests the advance of the latent rot spores still in the wood. As I understand it, CPES itself doesn't kill the spores. Borate compounds, ethylene gylcol are used to do that first for a more thorough approach.

Lots of people here suggest the thorough approach is to cut away all the rotted wood and then some ample margin of sound wood, then replace with entire new components or dutchman inserts, and assemble with traditional farsteners and bedding, or epoxy techniques. For the size of the boats and the rot problems I've encountered, this has been my approach.

I have in the past used a somewhat similar penetrating epoxy product, GitRot, on "minor" problems in the corners of mahogany hatches and pilot house windoe frames, wood toerails and trim strips and such and it seems to work great. But I'm not relying on these injected parts for the structural or watertight integrity of these boats.

It's a judgement call, yours, and I know you're looking for testamonials to review.

Without a doubt, if you're wanting the paint gripping property, you'll have to get back to bare wood first. You cannot slather CPES onto a painted finish and have it magically penetrate to the wood below. Fixing, to some degree, soft spots in problem areas under a finish can be done by drilling many, many, small holes and using a syringe. Then you fill and spot paint. I can think of many places I would be satisfied with this practical solution to extend the life of an existing deck, gunnel or sheer clamp, transom corner, or such and at least postpone., maybe eliminate a major repair. But not a chainplate, rudder gudgeon, rudder tube, mast spreader or forestay fitting. You get the idea.

What are you faced with on this large vessel? If the old paint is tight, just faded and chalky, and the wood underneath "taps" sound no way would I do an overall strip. I would sand and recoat and spend my time enjoying the boat. "If it ain't broke,don't fix it.

If the paint, particularly the primer, is peeling and popping off in many places all over the boat, no way would I do just spot repaisr and then do a fine overall refinish, because I would predict"new" spots underneath that finery would continue to pop and peel. Sometimes it's possible that only one side of the hull or deck house, or just say the transom, baked the life out of the paint in the sun so you can get away with less full stripping. But you can't justify putting new paint over "bad" paint thinking you've painted over the problem. That's why a regular paint maintenance program is less work in the long run. Has this boat been "let go"?

Good luck.

[Fingerlakes Boater]

Buddy,

Yes you could say this boat was let go, a little. It sat uncovered for about 5 years. It was hauled in '99 to get new bottom paint. however the original owner(about 80yrs. old) passed away and the maintinece was never done. I bought the vessel last october to settle the estate for $1.00. Not a bad price i thought. After sitting in the rain, snow, melting snow and, baking in the sun for almost 5 yeas you can imagine that it is need of some repair. The paint above the water line is pealing and will need to be striped. The bottom, both inside and out, seem to be in good condition. I was thinking of striping all paint, applying CPES as a primer, then repainting. Of course repainring the needed areas of ply in between. Or should i just sand the bottom lighlty and repaint with Kirby's?? Then strip above the chines, apply CPES, then paint?? Open to all sugestion on this one. I hope to be in the water in the spring, and am woking on her as we speak. Foutunatly i built my shop with 20' ceilings so she is nice and warm right now. smile.gif

[Leigh Turner]

I am seriously considering a similar project on a 42' wooden hull and am contemplating sandblasting my hull with walnut shells (so as not to remove any wood), then applying the CPES followed by several coats of Elastuff 120. I suggest you contact the guy who sells this stuff at drrot@rotdoctor.com. He has sent me quite a bit of information on the process and I am close to going ahead in the spring. Would love to hear your thoughts after you communicate with him.....

[Scott Rosen]

If I were you, I’d strip all the paint off, if for no other reason than to be able to see for yourself the condition of the plywood. CPES should not be used over existing paint. The solvents in CPES are so strong that they can lift the paint.

CPES is an outstanding sealer for plywood. Make sure that all of the joints and other areas where water could reach the endgrain get a thorough soaking with CPES.

[Fingerlakes Boater]

Leigh,

I did some investigation on the Elastuff 120 and also the Uniflex 255. I think that may be the way I am going to go. Strip the bottom, apply CPES to the bare wood, apply two coats of Elastuff, and then a top coat of Uniflex 255. If you read the Spec's on these products they recommend a top coat of Uniflex (you can get it colored) if you are exposing the Elastuff to harsh conditions for extra protection. Harsh being prolonged exposure to water, in our case sitting in the slip all summer. I am going to call and confirm this application with The Rot Doc, but I am really leaning towards it.

[Stargazer14]

I have used the Uniflex on my deck - a plywood surface formerly covered with Nautilex -
I cleaned it well, gave it a coat of CPES, then two coats of the Uniflex(in the Sandstone color).
It has held up well for the very short time it has been on. I did not read about using it as a bottom coating and would do a bit of research before i used it as such. Actually I dont see a need for it on healthy ply coated with CPES then bottom paint.
Has the "Doctor' recomended this for underwater use?

[Leigh Turner]

Supposedly, the Elastuff 120, when applied over the CPES soaked wood at least 2 layers thick, provides a solid, fibreglass like covering impervious to anything short of volcanic eruption while maintaining slight flexibility so it won't crack, and no problems with with rotting from the inside. Has anyone out there tried this? My boat leaks like a sieve and would love to hear from someone with actual in the water experience.

[Fingerlakes Boater]

To all From the Rot Doc website. Sorry so long, but thought it would shed some light.

BASIC USES
ELASTUFF 120 is used over a wide variety of vertical and horizontal wood, fiberglass, concrete, steel, iron and polyurethane foam surfaces. Typical applications include wood decks (boat and home), wood boat hulls, fiberglass deck and hull surfaces, wood/ concrete/steel steps, walkways, lanais, swimming pools, pool decks, tennis courts, parking areas, garage floors, concrete top surfaces, pipe interiors, steel floors.

The vertical hold attained by ELASTUFF 120 gives it the ability to uniformly cover coarse or pitted wood and concrete, as well as weld seams, bolts, angles and edges, and other irregular surfaces.

SURFACE PREPERATION
WOOD: ELASTUFF 120 can be applied directly to clean new wood. To additionally protect the wood, one or more coats of CPES™ (Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer) can be applied first, including all seams and edges, and allowed to cure. All cracks larger than hairline should be considered as "moving" and be cleaned and filled with either Fill It™ Epoxy Filler, Vulkem 921 or Sonolastic® ULTRA polyurethane sealants. Sealants should be troweled flush with sufficient pressure to fill the cracks and joints completely. At least 2 generous coatings of ELASTUFF 120 are required on top of the primed or unprimed surface. Each additional coat should be applied perpendicular to the original coating.

Old wood or restored wood should be clean and bare and free of any foreign contaminants. We strongly recommend a prime coating of CPES™ (Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer) if the wood shows any signs of deterioration, softness or rot. After the sealer has completely dried/cured, existing hairline cracks should be filled with Fill It™ Epoxy Filler, Vulkem 921 or Sonolastic® ULTRA polyurethane sealants. Sealants should be troweled flush with sufficient pressure to fill the cracks and joints completely. At least 2 generous coatings of ELASTUFF 120 are required on top of the primed surface. Each additional coat should be applied perpendicular to the original coating.

TOPCOAT APPLICATION
ELASTUFF 120 is designed as a functional coating system providing a durable, abrasion and chemical resistant waterproof membrane on a wide variety of surfaces and service conditions. It will lose its sheen and may chalk slightly after extended exterior exposure. For this reason, it is recommended that ELASTUFF 120 be topcoated in areas where aesthetics are of prime importance, or when a color other than standard flint gray is desired. UNIFLEX 255 is typically used when service conditions are severe. RHINO TOP can also be used under less severe conditions.

UNIFLEX 255 Aliphatic is a two-component elastomeric, abrasion resistant polyurethane finish/final coating. It is formulated from an all-aliphatic, light stable polymer which allows for a wide range of UV stable colors. UNIFLEX 255 Aliphatic possesses high tensile strength as well as an excellent balance of elongation, hardness and abrasion resistance, resulting in long term wear and impact protection. The dense finish is also resistant to staining and dirt pickup, which aids in cleanability.

UNIFLEX
UNIFLEX 255 Aliphatic is an extended pot life system designed for use with standard airless spray equipment as well as brush or roller.

Basic Uses
UNIFLEX 255 Aliphatic was developed as a topcoat for protecting ELASTUFF 120 from degradation caused by normal weathering and ultraviolet exposure, and as a primary coating for wood, concrete or steel where the extra protection of the ELASTUFF 120 is not required.

As a top coating, UNIFLEX 255 Aliphatic provides a semi-gloss, wear resistant finish for boat and pedestrian decks, stairways, patios, balconies, and on its own to protect any primed wood, concrete, fiberglass, polyester and steel.

UNIFLEX Water Absorption: After 30 days immersion in distilled water at 75°F (24°C) there were no visible effects. All elastomeric properties were retained. Tested in accordance with ASTM D 543, ASTM D 412.

[Jim H]

Here's a couple of threads from the FAQ that you might find interesting:

CPES yes or no? (http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=003129)
C.P.E.S. under epoxy, paint & varnish (http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004948)

[Buddy]

Curious as it sounds, if the boat lives in the water, and if water gets past a coating and is absorbed to even complete saturation in the wood below the waterline, it won't rot- too wet to support the fungus. It's in areaa like drips through the deck onto beams, joints inside the bilge, and corners of transoms at the deck or waterline where the wood cycles in between wet and dry where the rot gets established. So likely you have no need to do other than keep good bottom paint below. Check it out, tap and probe, for problems, but I'd bet your problems and CPES candidates are above the waterline.

[Excalibur]

Here's a testimonial. Take a look at my boat:

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?&p=999&uid=6976154&gid=13369318&&imgid=198651440&offset=235

These are pics of the previous owners repairing the hull in '01. After stripping all of the paint off, they put on 3 coats of CPES, followed by 2 coats of interlac primer, and 2 coats of toplac. See how bright and shiney the hull looked in '01? Thats exactly what it looks like today. The boat has been at the yard for the last 2 days having new bottom paint put on (yes, they did me over the weekend), and I looked it over close up. There is nothing wrong with the hull coating at all. I have done no work at all on it, not even wax. I think this is very good performance, and I am sold on CPES.

[Gary E]

If CPES and ELASTUFF are so good... Are there any FACTORY AUTHORIZED APPLICATORS in biz doing this? Comon, if it's so good, there sure should be more than a few.

or...
Is it more snake oil sold to the gullible who "need" the wizbang allpurpose cure for everything that ails you?

I'm guessing your boat is at least 40 yrs old?...
How did it last that long without the magic cureall?

[daveboling]

If CPES and ELASTUFF are so good... Are there any FACTORY AUTHORIZED APPLICATORS in biz doing this? Comon, if it's so good, there sure should be more than a few.


I have found that most companies that have products that have, or require, "FACTORY AUTHORIZED APPLICATORS" are concerned with either the customer misusing their product such that poor results are obtained thus casting a bad light on the company (and product), or charge businesses a fee to be "FACTORY AUTHORIZED APPLICATORS", and limit supply of the product to those so authorized. Perhaps the factory hasn't seen risks of misapplication, or the need for the additional revenue stream.
I've use several products that I swear by in different areas that have no "FACTORY AUTHORIZED APPLICATORS". Could I be that misguided?

dave boling

[Bob Cleek]

There aren't too many "factory authorized applicators" for your basic paint products like CPES. Don't know anything about this elasti-stuff. I'll wait to see if the yards are using it. So far, I don't know. I'd be careful about anything you hear from Rot-Doctor, though. His "rot restoring" claims for CPES (which he sells behind his own label as "Restors-it) are wildly exaggerated. Contact Steve Smith directly and he can answer your questions for you. The number is on the can. http://www.smithandcompany.org/

[Excalibur]

If CPES and ELASTUFF are so good... Are there any FACTORY AUTHORIZED APPLICATORS in biz doing this? Comon, if it's so good, there sure should be more than a few.

or...
Is it more snake oil sold to the gullible who "need" the wizbang allpurpose cure for everything that ails you?

I'm guessing your boat is at least 40 yrs old?...
How did it last that long without the magic cureall?

My boat is a 1967. Actually, it did not last that long, as you say. There was significant rot repair done to the hull prior to applying the CPES, and there is significant rot that has yet to be addressed in the deck and house. Like any other wooden boat, is was painted and caulked often in an effort to keep it healthy. The addition of the CPES appears to stop moisture from cycling into and out of the wood to a certain degree. Not completley, but enough such that the toplac is adhearing very well, and the hull is not leaking after 6 years. It's a bit soon to report on it's properties as a rot inhibitor of course. How did it last this long without CPES? Lots of work and money. Scoff if you want, I don't care. It works for me and I'm happy.

[pcford]

The real name of "CPES" is Restore-It. It was created to do things like restore rotten porches. Its most enthusiastic adherants are found on this board. It may have some uses, but the religious tone of its fans make me more than a little uncomfortable.

Read past threads on the subject.

[Bob Cleek]

Your comment explains a lot, PC. I've always wondered why you were so uneasy about CPES. "Restors-it" is NOT the "real name" of CPES. It is actually the other way around. "Rot Doctor" buys CPES in bulk from Smith and Co. and then resells it as "Restors-it." CPES was around a LONG time before "Restors-it" came along. CPES was created specifically for marine use in wooden boats. (I know because I've been around as long as it has... and Smith's own literature says the same.) It was only when wooden boat owners started using it in architectural applications that Smith began marketing it to the construction industry.

In my opinion, the Rot Doctor makes claims for "Restors-it" that go beyond what CPES is or was ever intended to do. If you've read the Rot Doctor's blubs, I can see how you would be dubious about CPES as a cure-all for rot. Smith's literature does not say this at all.

Smith's own literature clearly explains that CPES's use to "restore" rotten wood is limited to applications where the rot is not so pronounced that the wood has lost its structural integrity. The much touted "restoration" of rotten wood as Rot Doctor tells it is NOT what Smith is saying. Smith says that soaking rotten wood in CPES is practical only with minor architectural trim pieces, not structural wood, which Smith's own literature properly says "should be replaced entirely." I suppose that once Smith sells product to a reseller, there is little that he can do to limit their claims as long as they don't put his name on it.

I urge you to read Smith's research monograph on CPES and its proper use. I think you'll find that those of us who "swear by it" as a SEALER aren't exaggerating by much. http://www.woodrestoration.com/

I don't care whether you use it or not, but a lot of people have found it to be a very good product. The same goes for the General Services Administration and the military.

[pcford]

Your comment explains a lot, PC. I've always wondered why you were so uneasy about CPES. "Restors-it" is NOT the "real name" of CPES. It is actually the other way around. "Rot Doctor" buys CPES in bulk from Smith and Co. and then resells it as "Restors-it." CPES was around a LONG time before "Restors-it" came along. CPES was created specifically for marine use in wooden boats. (I know because I've been around as long as it has... and Smith's own literature says the same.) It was only when wooden boat owners started using it in architectural applications that Smith began marketing it to the construction industry.

In my opinion, the Rot Doctor makes claims for "Restors-it" that go beyond what CPES is or was ever intended to do. If you've read the Rot Doctor's blubs, I can see how you would be dubious about CPES as a cure-all for rot. Smith's literature does not say this at all.

You say I referred to Restors-It. If you look at my post, you will see that I referred to Restore-It. I misspelled the name, the real name is Restor-It. The manufacturers name is noted as "Bels-Smith" on the Fisheries site.
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/online/search.asp?N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=cpes&Nty=1&D=cpes&act=A02&hideprops=1&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial+rel+Inactive

Oh, and the url you gave tells about miracle rot cures for the product. Nothing else.

Some professionals around here use the so-called "CPES" for a sealer...and who knows it might be a good one. However, they don't share the religious born-again fervor for the product that you and a few others exhibit.

Ain't a miracle product...you know, there aren't any miracles in boatyards, at least in my thirty plus years in the trade. It's just good and careful work.

[Dave-Fethiye]

I have some rotten wood on my hull, the other day I cut it out and have applied a wood presever. Perhaps I should have used CPES ?

[pcford]

I have some rotten wood on my hull, the other day I cut it out and have applied a wood presever. Perhaps I should have used CPES ?

Do you believe in magic?

[Paul Girouard]

Do you believe in magic?


Hehehehehheeee:D

[Dave-Fethiye]

The reason why I added my comment/question here was because of the comment that was added to my thread on the Cruisers Forum:

This was the comment (today):
"CPES wont kill rot spores, but can seal the wood and fill the wood to a limited degree of penetration. I doubt that is so good an idea as you are dependent on the wood swellling to seal the boat. I suspect you need preservative on all surfaces.
This site can give you specialist advice The WoodenBoat Forum - Powered by vBulletin (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/index.php) "

So I am just wondering, is the specialist advice:

"Do you beleive in magic" ?

or is it the:

"Hehehehehheeee"

;)

Anyway, I digress,

I guess that I haven't done bad by applying the wood preserver and as I DO need to allow that wood to expand, CPES might be the wrong material for my pine wooden boat ?

Thanks
Dave

[pcford]

The reason why I added my comment/question here was because of the comment that was added to my thread on the Cruisers Forum:

This was the comment (today):
"CPES wont kill rot spores, but can seal the wood and fill the wood to a limited degree of penetration. I doubt that is so good an idea as you are dependent on the wood swellling to seal the boat. I suspect you need preservative on all surfaces.
This site can give you specialist advice The WoodenBoat Forum - Powered by vBulletin (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/index.php) "

So I am just wondering, is the specialist advice:

"Do you beleive in magic" ?

or is it the:

"Hehehehehheeee"

;)

Anyway, I digress,

I guess that I haven't done bad by applying the wood preserver and as I DO need to allow that wood to expand, CPES might be the wrong material for my pine wooden boat ?

Thanks
Dave

If you had done a forum search (always advisable in venues like this), you would have found that Restor-It aka CPES is a subject of much contention. It has its rabid followers that believe it to be a miracle product with many uses; some of us think it is largely hokum.

Not using the stuff could hardly be considered a disaster. Assuming you remove affected wood and put poison on the area, you have done fine.

[Bob Smalser]

I have some rotten wood on my hull, the other day I cut it out and have applied a wood preserver. Perhaps I should have used CPES ?

I take it you cut the rot back to good wood and let in new heartwood to replace the bad? Because that's the best practice.

On order for wood to rot, air temperatures must be above 55 degrees and the wood have a moisture content of 20% or more. Eliminate either factor, and wood won't rot, period. Brush-applied wood preservatives can slow rot fungi down or the better, pressure-treated chemicals can even kill them, but the better method is to control moisture via proven design, construction and maintenance. Most common is rot from rainwater getting past degraded paint and sealants and soaking the wood.

CPES is simply a sealer that inhibits rot by slowing down the cycle of moisture in and out of wood, reducing or eliminating the amount of time it's above the rot threshold of 20% EMC. It doesn't kill rot, it adds no strength to rotten wood, and it contains existing rot merely by keeping the sound wood around it dryer. I'm not sure how well it works because I've never seen comparative moisture content studies done using it....but I'm sure it works to one degree or another....after all, common paint and putty work to one degree or another, too.

As to the efficacy of the "Rot Doctor" implying you can "cure" rot by soaking it in CPES, you aren't curing anything.....you've not repaired the strength lost to the deteriorated wood and at best you're just lengthening the fuze on the time bomb of the rot you've left spreading.

[Bob Cleek]

I'm in complete agreement with Smalser on this one. CPES is a SEALER, as it says in its name. It is a good sealer. Maybe one of the best. It is surely better than any I know of that anyone has used. It doesn't "cure" rot. I belong to the "cut it out" school of rot repair. I don't know why PC is so skeptical. If he used it as a sealer under varnish, I expect he would recognize its value for that purpose.

The URL I posted above has a list of links in Adobe. Those lead you to a scientific report on CPES prepared to address testing of CPES when used to repair "moderately" rotten architectural elements. It tells you all you ever wanted to know about the stuff and its use on rotten wood and isn't a sales pitch. Note, if you read it, that Smith clearly cautions that it is NOT for repairing structural members and does not impart any strength to rotten wood. He suggests non-surface rotten wood be cut out and replaced, as we all know it should.

"Somewhere in between the limits of "cosmetic restoration only" and "original wood remaining is adequate to carry a mechanical load" lies a region where this product and its technology have application validity."

Could it be that PC's connection with the boatyard industry causes him to worry that a product that will extend the life of a paint or varnish job is cutting into the profit margin?

[pcford]

Could it be that PC's connection with the boatyard industry causes him to worry that a product that will extend the life of a paint or varnish job is cutting into the profit margin?

feh.

Mr. Cleek, how many miracle boatyard products have you seen come down the road? How many actually sustained original enthusiasm?

Restor-It (aka "CPES") may be a fine product for repairing rotten porches and perhaps sealing wood. Though I must say that I went to a seminar on rot by the Forestry Department at the University of Washington. They said that wood should not be sealed in a situation like this. I will give them at least as much attention as I do to you enthusiasts.

And no, I am not protecting the rot-digging or refinishing portion of my trade. Don't need the work. Thank you very much. That was a silly comment, not really worthy of you.

[Dave-Fethiye]

Has nobody got any advice (specialist or otherwise) on the important point, namely the possible provention of the expansion of wood when using CPES - which would prevent natural sealing of the boat?

Thanks

[Bob Smalser]

Has nobody got any advice (specialist or otherwise) on the important point, namely the possible provention of the expansion of wood when using CPES - which would prevent natural sealing of the boat?

Thanks

Your wood will expand and contract according to the humidity in the air just as much with CPES or paint as it will without any coatings.

What coatings do is slow down the rate of expansion and contraction....often beating the natural seasonal cycles by slowing swelling or shrinkage to the point where it doesn't reach its maximum before the onset of your dry or wet seasons.

[pcford]

Has nobody got any advice (specialist or otherwise) on the important point, namely the possible provention of the expansion of wood when using CPES - which would prevent natural sealing of the boat?

Thanks

Restor-It, also known as CPES, in the case that you note, will not prevent water vapor from entering the member. It may slow it down.

[Jay Greer]

Has nobody got any advice (specialist or otherwise) on the important point, namely the possible provention of the expansion of wood when using CPES - which would prevent natural sealing of the boat?

Thanks
This is a valid concern that I had when I first started using CPES. So far I have yet to have a problem with it. And have saved several tired hulls using it.

We just launched a lap strake steam launch we treated with CPES and West System roving this week. Although there were a few leaks, it took up in two days.
Jay

[Dave-Fethiye]

Thanks for your input.
This is very helpful
Dave

[Excalibur]

The previous owner of my boat was apparently concerned about that as well. He used 5200 between the planks instead of traditional caulking. This was done between the carvel planks on the sides as well as between the lapstrake ply on the bottom. It's working well so far, 6 years on. The only leaks I've seen so far have been around fasteners where the plugs fell out. Several were replaced last weekend at haulout. Previous to that, the boat had been in the water continuously for 3 years. The only thing that keep any bottom paint on it was the fact that the boat just sat it it's slip. I gained 2 knots at cruise after cleaning the bottom!