incinerating toilet, no holding tank needed

[sdowney717]

http://www.incinolet.com/

Actually this looks like a good idea for a larger boat.
Anyone seen it used?

[Gary E]

Define "larger"

Here is what it needs in the electric dept...

Uses 120 volts (some 240 volt models), at 15 amps. Uses about 1½ kilowatt hour of electricity per cycle. Electric drawn only when toilet is in use

That's a lot of lectric and either generator or converter time to vaporize a .... I would think your better off with a Lectrosan.

[Bob Cleek]

It also comes in a cordless model:

http://www.lehmans.com/images/us/local/products/detail/00BP.f.jpg

$47.95 at Lehman's. web page (http://www.lehmans.com/jump.jsp?itemType=PRODUCT&iProductID=691)

[ 11-28-2005, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Bob Cleek ]

[sdowney717]

I know it takes some power to run, thus the idea of a larger boat with generator, etc...

I have a lectra san, came with the boat and can discharge it into the chesapeake bay.
I had to rebuild it a couple years ago, the plastic motor seals were bad, needed new slingers and bearings. Last time I used it the power draw was too low, So I think the electrode is going or dirty.
I wonder how many boats actually have properly functioning lectra sans.

[sdowney717]

Can the bucket be legally dumped overboard, or not since the waste is intercepted into a bucket. Seem to remember Peggie Hall saying it is legal to go directly over the side but nothing else? Cant imagine it though. No way my daughters or wife would do it.

[sdowney717]

Why not just make a poop board with a hole in it, and hang it off the side of the boat.

[Thorne]

Hey, how about a whole DECK devoted to poop-boards...

...oh, been done, eh?

;- )

I remember when my idea of a perfect date was a lass who could blithely piddle behind the jib...

...Mercer Island daze.

[Ken Hutchins]

Forumite David Pratt has a composting head in his boat and he likes it, hopefully he will see this thread and add some information. I recently met another boat owner who has installed a composting head, he is also very happy with it.

[Bob Cleek]

The rule, I believe, is that you must have a holding tank if you have a "Marine Sanitation Device" installed on board. An "MSD" is anything that discharges waste overboard through a through hull fitting. If you have an "MSD" with a holding tank, it cannot be capable of pumping overboard. If you don't have a holding tank, your "MSD" has to be "rendered inoperable" while in territorial waters, which means take the seacock handle off of it. There is no law against using a plain old bucket and, as far as I know, no particular law against emptying the bucket overboard, as long as you don't do it through a through hull. Rules vary with location. Your mileage may vary. Sailing is like camping. If your tush absolutely requires a plush covered seat, sailing isn't your sport.

[seo]

Bob Cleek said: If you have an "MSD" with a holding tank, it cannot be capable of pumping overboard. "

I think that's only true in certain areas. For sure the Great Lakes. In coastal waters, the jurisdiction of the USCG to regulate sewage discharge doesn't extend beyond a certain distance from land. Last time I knew the rules for sure, it was 3 miles.
So, for example, I worked for a while running a tug that was chartered to the Navy. We tended a barge that was set up to receive sewage from Navy ships tied up alongside doing guest visits in Maine towns. When the barge was full we'd take it outside the three mile limit and dump it.
At the same time (late '90's) I owned a coast guard inspected passenger boat. Typical sewage set-up: head, holding tank, macerator pump.
About ten years ago I wrote an article for Professional Boatbuilder detailing a much simplified holding tank arrangement. It was the subject of much impassioned and fanciful denunciation, mainly from "experts" who were in the business of selling very expensive sewage treatment solutions. They wrote with great assurance, but with limited mastery of the relevent laws and good engineering practice.
seo

[Dan Lindberg]

FWIW, years ago our neighbor at the lake had a Insolate (sp) toilet in their cabin.

When it was just the 2 of them it worked fine, but when they had more people, it couldn't keep up with the liquid, and the guys had to go outside and use a tree.

Dan

[Ian McColgin]

The incinerating units are best in larger commercial vessels and yachts. We had lovely units on the tugs, which always had more power than could be used anyway.

For boat use in temperate to warm conditions, the current composting units appear the best provided you size them correctly to your use.

For boats that will be in cold weather, perhaps the holding tank remains the best. I plan on next boat to have only the deck outlet, to meet the law in Canada, but to also have connectors for my Edson so I can pump the holding tank when necessary.

[Tonyr]

We are going the composting route, using a dedicated solar panel, deep cycle battery and fan. The boat design lets me do this (big space on the house roof for the solar panel), but without that I can't see how to make it efficient for smaller boats. Mine is a 24" power boat, but I am keeping the engine and head circuits separate, with two batteries. In our previous (sail) boat we got fed up with the smells of holding tanks, which seemed to re-appear no matter how hard we tried.

Tony.

[Uncle Duke]

seo said:

About ten years ago I wrote an article for Professional Boatbuilder detailing a much simplified holding tank arrangement. It was the subject of much impassioned and fanciful denunciation, mainly from "experts" who were in the business of selling very expensive sewage treatment solutions. They wrote with great assurance, but with limited mastery of the relevent laws and good engineering practice Is that article reachable anywhere, or could you post it somewhere as an item of interest for those of us interested?
Gracias.

[Craig Lekven]

I think the "bucket and chuck it" routine gets you in trouble with the Clean Water Act, rather than the USCG MSD regulations. I would venture that throwing a bucket of sh*t overboard within the 3 mile limit could constitute an illegal discharge of waste to the waters of the United States, punishable by a fine of up to $10 per gallon discharged. Probably peeing over the side could be argued to violate the Clean Water Act as well. Fortunately, the water quality regulators have more important and significant things to keep themselves gainfully employed than chasing Mr. Cleek around SF Bay.

Just think, all those little kids playing and peeing at the beach are all violating the law... :rolleyes:

[Al Owen]

I've been thinking about this one for sometime. What is the bad on these units? http://www.airheadtoilet.com/Air_Headx.html

[duck builder]

I have been researching this for several years now. What I have concluded (just another country heard from) is:
1. Anything that punps, whirs and discharges can and will clog/break.
2. Holding tanks are smelly, fill up way too fast and the alleged pumpout infrastructure is unreliable and spotty, even in areas where capacity is alleged to be adequate.
3. Pooping in a bucket is a thing of the distant past not to mention just plain wrong
4. Incinerating toilets do smell during the burn
5. Composting toilets can work but they are fighting an uphill battle when pee is added to the mix.
6. The airhead, is a design improvement in that it uses a urine seperation toilet seat keeping pee and pooh seperate. The pooh composts quite nicely once the pee is kept seperate.
7. I have opted to make my own urine diversion composting head using a urine diverting seat which is commercially available from ecovita. You build your own enclosure customized to your head dimensions and use the urine diverting seat. I removed the old head this fall and am building the enclosure this winter so I can't brag about how well it works yet, but the process is proven. Main expenses are diverting seat for about $100 and a day/night solar vent to vent the system.

[Dayton Eckerson]

We have used the SunMar composting head on our boat for 2 seasons and it has worked great -- no odors, no pumpouts, no clogged pumps, and nothing to rebuild. In terms of power usage, we use a Nicro day/night solar-powered vent, so there is no drain on the batteries. If we ever manage to retire and go cruising full-time, we'll probably have to install the 12-volt fan that came with the unit, but there again we're only talking about a 4 watt draw, so a small solar collector can easily handle that load. The only drawback with the SunMar unit is size: if you have a small head enclosure, it may not fit. In that case, I'd give serious consideration to the AirHead model. I've never used one, but it got good reviews from Practical Sailor a few years ago, and its about the same size as conventional heads.

[Tonyr]

Dayton, glad to hear the good experience with the Sunmar unit - that's what we have bought. I designed a really large head specially for the composting toilet, and also to provide space for a sink and privacy for (shy??!) ladies to change into swim suits etc.

My wife likes that thinking!

Tony.

[ 12-01-2005, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: Tonyr ]

[TimothyB]

Since the thread started talking about incinerating toilets, I thought I would mention that you can get Propane powered ones, which would be usable on a boat if you worked out the venting right.

http://www.realgoods.com/renew/shop/prod uct.cfm/dp/2400/sd/2406/ts/1044806 (http://www.realgoods.com/renew/shop/product.cfm/dp/2400/sd/2406/ts/1044806)

Yes, she be big. smile.gif Also uses a lot of propane. But it's sure nifty!

[ 12-01-2005, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: TimothyB ]

[sdowney717]

http://cgi.ebay.com/LitterMaid-Self-Cleaning-Litter-Box-Hardly-used-w-supp_W0QQitemZ7728332615QQcategoryZ29853QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

Why not design a human toilet using this same idea?
A rake device moves the 'solids' into a sealing container containing clay liter. Urine would pass thru into a holding container where it would be stored or evaporated or something like flushed into bilge sump pump container and pumped overboard type of thing? Like they use on showers.
The clay cat liter would work the same on human waste as animal waste. urine and liquids from solid waste would soak into the clay liter drying the solid waste.

[Steve Lansdowne]

I have it. Jump in, do your thing, hop out, dry off, sail away. Just like the little ones do in your pool when you aren't looking.

[Rick Clark]

Amen on that Steve.
I take care of the pool where I live so I told the kids that I put a solvent into the pool and if they pee in it , it will turn red.
Which I did put it in and it works but is costly. ;)

[ 12-01-2005, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Rick Clark ]