Small Reach designs!

[Daniel Noyes]

Hi all,
So the Small Reach Regatta boat list has been posted. A really interesting group of small craft.
No formal raceing is scheduled but any one have any thoughts on what boats will be the first to the lunch spot? how about the boats that will get their crew out and back again regardless of the weather!
I hope to attend with the "Peggy Bliss" crew, should be a fun weekend.
Dan


A final fleet list follows, with boat, type, skipper, and hometown:


1 COQUINA, 16'8" Herreshoff cat-ketch, Maynard Bray, Brooklin, ME
2 FAR & AWAY, 18’ Nomans Land boat, Tom Jackson, Brooklin, ME
3 FRISKY LADY, 15'6" gaff sloop, Mike Duncan, Annandale, VA
4 RUFF (or Pagan), 18’ Oslojollen (19’ Oselver faering), Bruce Elfstrom, East Haddam, CT
5 ISLAND LADY, 20’ canoe yawl, David Wyman, Castine, ME
6 Swampscot dory, 20’, Allen Head, Concord, NH
7 SARA, 19’2” Oughtred Ness yawl, Jay Eberly, Round Hill, VA
8 Oughtred Caledonia yawl, Geoff Kerr, Westford, VT
9 HOPEFUL OUTLOOK, 19’7” Banks dory, Sam Manning, Camden, ME
10 RAN TAN, 17’6” Harrier, Clinton Chase, Cushing, ME
11 LITEN KULING, 19’6” Afjords faering, skipper TBA (via Ben Fuller, Cushing, ME)
12 PUCK, 19’6” lapstrake pulling boat, Bob Yorke, Scituate, MA
13 OCARINA, 18’ Shearwater, John Silverio, Lincolnville, ME
14 Swampscot Dory, 17’, Willits Ansel, Georgetown, ME
15 CLC Skerry, 15’, Bill Corbett, Castine, ME
16 EMERSON ALBURY, 16’6” Bahama dinghy, Wade Smith, North Franklin, CT
17 MY FAER LADY, 15’ Oughtred faering, Steven Bauer, Portland, ME
18 SCOUT, 21’ Sea Pearl (Herreshoff Carpenter), Philip Bacon, Hamden, CT
19 DELIGHT, 19’6” Oughtred Caledonia yawl, John Shinaberger, Bradford, PA
20 SALLY LEE, 15’ CLC Skerry, Christopher Drouin, Auburn, NH
21 HERON, 19’6” Oughtred Caledonia yawl, Bill Boyd, Topsham, ME
22 Kingston lobsterboat, 18’6”, David McCulloch, Old Lyme, CT
23 Swampscot Dory, 16’, David Porter, Brooklin, ME
24 JOSEF W., 15’ Delaware ducker, Ben Fuller, Cushing, ME
25 ROSIE B, Penobscot 17, 17’ lug ketch, David Gilroy, East Granby, CT
26 WBRF, 18’6” Dixie Belle (Culler), Michael Spencer, info to follow
27 SELKIE, 19’6” Caledonia yawl, Joel Page, Jeffersonville, VT
28 PEGGY BLISS, Sailing dory, William Richards, Georgetown, MA
29 BLUE MIST, 15’10” Wayfarer dinghy, Richard Harrington, Euclid, OH
30 Atlantic 17 pulling boat, Steve Woll, Pembroke, MA
31 Skerriskiff 17 (Oughtred), Bob Wolfertz, Rosemont, NJ
32 Moosabec Reach Boat, 14’3”, Rick Hayden, Rockport, ME
33 WIZARD, Herreshoff Coquina, Vagn Worm, Brooklin, ME
34 DORIAN GRAY, 16' Hammond Dory, Eric Slosser, Needham, MA
35 Penobscot 17, Tom Williamson, VT, info to follow
36 Kingston Lobster boat, John & Cathrine Princell, Brooklin, ME
37 South Jersey Beach skiff, 15’8”, Steve Dwyer, Merrimac, MA
38 Wayfarer dinghy, Tom Erickson, Gardner, MA
39 Drascome Scaffie, 15’, Thomas Hepp, Liberty, ME
40 SEA BISCUIT, 18’ Swampscot Dory, Jay Irwin, Baltimore, MD

[StevenBauer]

Well I know we aren't 'racing' but the direct competition for Gavin and me in his Oughtred Elf are Chris's and Bill's Skerrys. :)

Steven

[skuthorp]

Now that is one regatta I'd really like to attend. MUCH jealousy Steven!

[Daniel Noyes]

Steven
what to your mind makes your elf comparable to a skerry? size, speed, handeling?
also lines drawings or photos of the boats being discussed would be great! and lets try to refer to boats by number as listed as well as make and model, may make it easier to find boat on the list.

I am very excited to see #6, 20' Swampscott, this type often suffers from being built quite short and I look forward to seeing how a historicaly "standard size" Swampscott will perform in company with some of the big lapped-ply yawls.

[rbgarr]

From what I hear, one of the best things about the inaugural Small Reach event was the lack of focus on competition. People enjoyed exploring the wonderful sailing waters, the islands, the little coves, etc. rather than having to deal with people strutting around at the landing places asking when they got in, what course they sailed, etc.

[StevenBauer]

Daniel, the CLC Skerry and Iain Oughtred's Elf are the same LOA, 15' similar beam, 4'6" Skerry, 4'5" Elf. Similar rig and weight. Their construction is very similar, I think the Skerry has a flat bottom and the Elf a slight V

Skerry:

http://www.clcboats.com/images/skerrynew1.jpg




Elf:

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/Elf2.JPG

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/Elf1.JPG

I'm not really thinking of racing, I'm more thinking of who we're going be near throughtout the day. :) Those of us in the smaller boats might be getting back to shore a little later than the big boys. :)

Steven

[hikingchrs]

I am looking forward to sailing with a skerry that has the designed rig.
mine has a 68 sq' Balanced Lug, I believe the skerry was designed to carry a sprit sail about 10' less or so. I may be takeing my new Caledonia Yawl, if I get it finished I would like to have my wife and child come but the skerry is too small for the three of us under sail. I also suspect that the Caledonias will be quite a bit faster I sailed with Geoff Kerr last summer, I could not keep up.
Chris

[Ben Fuller]

I suspect that you will have several groups: modern ( glue fastened) larger (17 foot plus wants two people rowing) and smaller ( modern single handers ... less happy with two) There would be hard core traditional group, mechanically fastened, again in a larger and smaller group.

[Daniel Noyes]

Hi all
Steven beautifull color planking on the elf! the skerry looks a like a shortened gunning dory, in the photo the foot of her sail seems incredibly high on the mast. Just looking at the two boats it looks like the elf is quite slim at the waterline where the skerry has a chubbier working boat look. Is the elf tender under sail?
It would seem that the skerry could stand up to that extra 10 ft. in your lug sail Chris, and will probably be a little faster than the smaller sprit rig, how is the skerry hull related to a dory?
I was noticing how Ben grouped the boats by size, and build. It should be interesting to see how the traditional plank built boats compare in performance with the slightly lighter ply craft...Im not sure weight will be a big factor unless we end up with real light wind and a lot of rowing!
Another division may be oar oriented vs. sail oriented especially when it comes to double enders and transom hulls. #29 and #38 are both wayfarer dinghys, boats heavily favored when it comes to sailing. with their wide transoms the Wayfarers have the power to keep their feet under much more canvas than a double ender, but may be quite slow when it comes to rowing a long distance. #28 Peggy Bliss also has a rather wide transom and is not very fast under oars.
Daniel
http://dansdories.googlepages.com/Slide13.JPG/Slide13-large.jpg (http://dansdories.googlepages.com/Slide13.JPG/Slide13-full.jpg)

[hikingchrs]

"It would seem that the skerry could stand up to that extra 10 ft. in your lug sail Chris, and will probably be a little faster than the smaller sprit rig"
My boat sails nicely, here is a thread about the sail modifications.
http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?p=666674#post666674

[Daniel Noyes]

Sea Pearl wins race at florida small craft event.
a heavily reefed Sea Pearl took top honors at the Gulf coatst TSCA sailing races beating several larger traditional skiffs and sloops. #18 Scout should be a real fast boat and a very functional one as well. the pearls seem to be great camp/ cruisers but with their long waterline and low rig they can really get up and go when lightly loaded. I dont' know if Scout is wood as most pearls seem to be glass, anyone know? mabey strip planking?
Dan

[Ben Fuller]

Sea Pearls are glass but are based on a design by LFH I think its the Carpenter. Despite the material it would have been nice to see one in the small reach. A very capable boat.

In the process of adapting my ducker racing rig of over 100 feet to the faering so that it has a fore and aft sail that is as big as the square and a low milage Nat Wilson cotton sail at that. Should be helpful.

[Daniel Noyes]

Hi all
Peter, I look forward to seeing you and the Moosabec Reach (#32) out on the water this August.
looks like the Moosabec is the shortest craft at 14'3 and the Hereshoff carpenter/seapearl (#18) is the longest boat at 21'
any ideas what the biggest boat is (displacement) , probably not the pearl.
mabey the canoe yawl (#5)? at 20' it could be a short ship.
Dan

[Daniel Noyes]

How is the fareing/ducker colaboration coming along Ben? is this a effort to make the Fareing quicker for participation in the regatta or just simpler to sail?
Dan

[Ben Fuller]

Faering is a little hard to sail as a single hander with the square sail. It has to come up and down a lot when ever the tacks needs switching. It also requires a bit of training. The fore and aft rig is obviously easier to sail, a little more close winded but less friendly down wind. I had been setting a ducker sail that was converted from a sprit of about 75 feet as a lug ( bang some grommets into the head.) The larger sail creates more horsepower. But the best way to windward is two strong rowers.

[Daniel Noyes]

If memory serves you may be loaning out the Liten kuling during the regatta, so ease of handeling may be important, I would imagine not many of us are familiar with square sails, especially on small craft. Should be real fast off the wind. Are there are any european fareings sailed with fore and aft rigs?
Dan

[Ben Fuller]

Faerings traditionally also carried low spritsails with jibs. The Norwegians have taken the oselver style and put modern dinghy rigs on them and actively race them.

[phiil]

My Sea Pearl has an empty displacement of about 600 pounds. To that I can add about 400 pounds of water ballast. Without getting too detailed about the heft of certain crewmembers and assorted accoutrements, we can probably top out at about 1500 pounds. 135 square feet of sail in a cat-ketch configuration push it nicely.

We look forward to meeting and sailing with all of you in August!

[StevenBauer]

Hey Phil, when we met at Doug's I didn't realize you were entered in the SRR. Gavin and I are really looking forward to this event, too.

Steven

[Ben Fuller]

Faerings traditionally also carried low spritsails with jibs. The Norwegians have taken the oselver style and put modern dinghy rigs on them and actively race them.

In some testing in 15 gusting yesterday, one person sitting on the rail can carry the 100 plus sq ft of gaff sail on the faering. This is more than was traditional. The jib on the traditional rig would be useful as there is reluctance in the tacks. I may cobble something up from the bits bag. Boat goes good. She was dried out a bit from sitting on a beach for some days so weeping. We were getting some air bubbles coming up in the seams. Is it faster? Who knows?

[Thad]

Looking to win, Ben? Sounds like it.

[Ben Fuller]

Actually I am not sailing the faering in the event... boat is being lent to an August Personage. But I may sail it over.

[Russ Manheimer]

Hi Phiil,

Julia and I will be at the SRR as well. (We also met at Lefty's.) See you there.

Russ

[wtarzia]

Someone asked about the Skerry hull and a dory hull. The Skerry hull resembles a Swampscott dory in some ways, though probably has less L/B (compared to the only swampscott I know, at the Mystic Seaport rent-to-row shed), and the bottom is slightly V-ed, if I recall correctly from seeing it last year. A sweet little boat, but true, the sail foot seems high. When I first sailed my Lowell dory-skiff, I kept sail foot high to watch for drunk speedboaters and avoid head bashing. It really sucked though on such a tender boat. Older and wiser, I shortened mast, dropped foot, and sailing is better. I just developed habit of looking under sail often (a window, though not traditional, could save your life, though. Tradition is not always good when life changes around it! Then: time for a new tradition). I foam-padded the boom to protect against loss of teeth, but the boom is low enough now to whack me more in the chest than the face, and life jacket doubles as 'flak jacket' now that I wear it all the time ;-) My question is, why doesn't somebody offer some longer kit-boats, say, 18 footers? The Nutshell Pram and the Skerry are all very fine, but a boat starts becoming really useful at 18 feet long, and still towable by a small car in some cases. But that is a different thread...-- Wade

[Clinton B Chase]

I'd like to throw in a design that I can see being great for the SRR or raid or family beach sail...Vivier's Le Seil:

See a third of the way down on his sail-and-oars page:

http://vivierboats.com/html/stock_sail_and_oar.html

This would be a fun, quick build and a great boat to use...and for family day sailing she'd could take one of the new battery pack outboards that fold up and stow ("the torqueedo"). I have loved the pram shape for a while and thought about starting some drafting for an 18' model then I found Le Seil. Food for thought.

Cheers,
Clint

[Clinton B Chase]

For those who use their small reach design at home as a family daysailor check this motor out...
http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/products/travel.html

She is electric with integrated battery pack and folds up to stow or load from boat to car weighing 25 lbs.

ANyone here using one of these?

Cheers,
Clint

[Ben Fuller]

. A sweet little boat, but true, the sail foot seems high. When I first sailed my Lowell dory-skiff, I kept sail foot high to watch for drunk speedboaters and avoid head bashing. It really sucked though on such a tender boat. Older and wiser, I shortened mast, dropped foot, and sailing is better. I just developed habit of looking under sail often (a window, though not traditional, could save your life, though. Tradition is not always good when life changes around it! Then: time for a new tradition). I foam-padded the boom to protect against loss of teeth, but the boom is low enough now to whack me more in the chest than the face, and life jacket doubles as 'flak jacket' now that I wear it all the time ;-) Wade

Those coming to the SRR will see the ducker boomed sprit rig. Low at the tack but the tradition was to raise the clew so that the boom clears you sitting from amidships aft. That is sail area that is not as as as luff length. You'll also see a brailing line that pulls the whole mess into the mast.

[Clinton B Chase]

ANyone here using one of these?



Sorry, I'll start a new post RE: torqueedo.

Hey, I'd love to see a photo of the ducker if available easily.

We should think about using this forum to collect photos and make a photo book of the SRR through one of the numerous digital photo onlin services. Bring cameras everyone and plenty of spare batteries.

Cheers,
Clint

[Daniel Noyes]

Clinton great Idea, I was thinking it would be nice if we could get a photo of each boat type on the SRR list.

about dory sails
I agree with Ben and Wade a sharply rising foot (30 degrees +-) is great on a dory.

[Clinton B Chase]

Steven Bauer is great at organizing photos. I COULD vilunteer to work on such a project but I am disorganized with photo documentation.

We could have photos of each boat as well as camping photos...life of a raid type of shots.

Clint

[Daniel Noyes]

Hi all
Well it's that time again, time to figure out what you will be sailing on the Small Reach this August.
Bill is going with his Ipswich Bay 18' "Peggy Bliss" again this year, so I know what ever I sail I wont be the fastest, this makes the Schooner Dory an obvious choice, and I know the Sea Scouts will get a big kick out of camping at WB and sailing the reach.
What is everyone else bringing???
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[Daniel Noyes]

Hi all
Thought there may be a member or two interested in the varied fleet of craft showing at this years Small Reach Regatta. Looks like Tom and the crew at Wooden Boat have a great fleet and some very cool suprises for this years event! Lots of interesting designs, and if last year was any indication we should have a great variety of conditions to test them in.
Dan

Participating Boats and Skippers

No. NAME DESIGN SKIPPER HOMEPORT
1 FAR & AWAY Nomans Land Boat Tom Jackson Brooklin, ME
2 Washington County Peapod Charles Chamberlain Brunswick, ME
3 PIECES Drascome Scaffie Thomas Hepp Appleton, ME
4 MARY JO Herreshoff Coquina John Hutchinson Saxonburg, PA
5 OCCAM'S RAZOR Swampscott Dory Malcolm Forbes Merrimack,NH
6 OSPREY Penobscot 17 Tom Williamson Windsor VT
7 Moosabec Reach Boat No. 1 Rick Hayden China, ME
8 WIZARD Herreshoff Coquina Vagn Worm Brooklin, ME
9 DELIGHT Caledonia Yawl John Shinaberger Bradford, PA
10 SCOUT Sea Pearl Phillip Bacon Hamden, CT
11 REBECCA ANN Caledonia Yawl Dave Davenport Linville, VA
12 PUCK Lapstrake pulling boat Bob Yorke Scituate, MA
13 ELSIE Swampscot Dory Allen Head Concord, NH
14 URCHIN Salisbury Point Skiff Wendy Byar Willingboro, NJ
15 PEPITA Melonseed Mike Wick Morristown, NJ
16 DONNACHAIDH’S DELIGHT Caledonia Yawl Mike Duncan Annandale, VA
17 LITTLE OTTER Ness Yawl Jeffrey Horbar Charlotte, VT
18 GIZMO Welsford Tread Lightly Bob Trygg Duluth, MN
19 JACK RABBIT II Exploration 18 Burton Blais S. Mountain, ON
20 VICTORY faering/Swampscot dory Jimmy Vitale Luthersville, MD
21 JASMINE Caledonia Yawl Chris Drouin Auburn, NH
22 MEANDER Matinicus Peapod Michaek Howard Amherst, MA
23 SUPERSEED Melonseed David McCullen Old Lyme, CT
24 ISLAND LADY Canoe Yawl David Wyman Castine, ME
25 THESTRAL II Faering type lug yawl Bruce Elfstrom East Haddam. CT
26 ROSIE B. Penobscot 17 lug ketch David Gilroy East Granby, CT
27 CRICKET Sharpie Jim Luton Brooklyn, NY
28 OCARINA Shearwater John Silverio Lincolnville, ME
29 PEGGY BLISS Ipswich Bay 18 William Richards Georgetown, MA
30 Matinicus Island Peapod Chip Angell Brooklin, ME
31 Drascombe Lugger Al Hansen Wilmot Flat, NH
32 GREY LADY Caledonia Yawl John Gibney Arlington, VA
33 GANNET Atlantic 17 pulling boat Steve Woll Pembroke, MA
34 HERON Oughtred Caledonia Yawl Bill Boyd Topsham, ME
35 LITEN KUHLING Alfjords faering Ben Fuller Cushing, ME
36 RAN TAN Harrier Tony Diaz Cushing, ME
37 JOSEF W. Delaware ducker Ben Fuller Cushing, ME
38 DORIAN GRAY Hammond Dory Eric Slosser Needham, MA
39 LEA South Jersey Beach skiff Stephen Dwyer Merrimac, MA
40 SEA BISCUIT Swampscot Dory Jay Irwin Baltimore, MD
41 RAVEN Norseboat 17.5 Robert Pante' Windsor, VT
42 NED LUDD Oughtred Caledonia Yawl Geoff Kerr Westford, VT
43 HMS VICTORIA Matinicus Double Ender Larry O'Brien Salisbury, MA
44 CALICO JACK Bob Lavertue Ludlow, MA
45 EMERSON ALBURY Bahama Dinghy Wade Smith N. Franklin, CT
46 VERRY SKERRY CLC Skerry Bill Corbett Castine, ME
47 BLUEBIRD Bolger "Surf" Trevor Peterson Brunswick, ME
48 SELKIE Caledonia Yawl Joel Page Jeffersonville, VT
49 BANKS DORY Banks dory Daniel Noyes Newbury, MA
50 BELLA BARCA Kingston Lobsterboat John Princell Brooklin, ME
51 DRAKE Faering Clinton Chase Portland, ME
52 VINLAND EXPRESS modified faering Robert Wolfertz Rosemont, NJ
53 DIXIE BELLE skiff Mike Spencer Greensboro, PA
54 IT’S ABOUT TIME Shellback Ted Stanton Stonington, CT
55 EMMA sharpie John Eastman
56 MY FAER LADY Ourghtred faering Steven Bauer Portland, ME
57 Swampscot Dory Willits Ansel Georgetown, ME
58 whaleboat Don Chapin Pocasset, MA

[Clinton B Chase]

I am finishing up the lines plan for a new boat that I'll probably debut at the '10 SRR. I call it the Maine Coast Dinghy. It is 18'8" (I may stretch it a few more inches) x 6'6" and on the waterline it is 17' x 5'2". She'll be glued lap plywood and built with some sort of half decking. She is made to sail fast but be tolerable to row even for a little distance. The one above, #51 Drake, will be my first design-build and on schedule to launch at this years SRR. She'll have my Shellback dinghy standing lug rig as a sail for off the wind; my spruce is on order for the oars to get me going into the wind! Here she is...

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.b85b120ca4.jpg (http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?b85b120ca4.jpg)

[Daniel Noyes]

The rowing club will be bringing the raceing schooner dory this year.
dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/98/413063854_f7b6be708b_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dansdories/413063854/in/set-72157594574329966/)http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/413058554_4de0e98210_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dansdories/413058554/in/set-72157594574329966/)[IMG]

[sailing canoe]

anyone like to speculate on why the majority of these boats come in just under 20 feet? Is there some Coastgard regulation I have not heard of? Thanks - nick

[Pernicious Atavist]

The size could be dictated by regatta rules.

[Ben Fuller]

Practicality; when you get longer than 20 feet or so it becomes much harder to row a boat efficiently with one or two if its not expressly designed to row ( aka leave all that heavy sail stuff on the beach). And there is the second factor of weight. This is not in paved launching ramp land. Rocky beach and a shallow slope. So getting stuff on and off trailers can be a challenge. FWD and experience in driving on that stuff is a necessity. What dictated Harrier's length and indeed what I suspect is a factor in the popularity of outboards in the 17-18 foot range is that this is what will easily fit into most garage based boat houses.

[Daniel Noyes]

2009 list is in from Tom!

2009 SRR Fleet List — Page 1

Owner and home port

March 27, 2009

1 FAR & AWAY 17’8” Nomans Land Boat Tom Jackson, Brooklin, ME
3 DELIGHT 19’6” Caledonia yawl John Shinaberger, Bradford, PA
4 SCOUT 21’ Sea Pearl 21 Philip Bacon, Guilford, CT
5 LITTLE OTTER 19’2” Ness yawl Jeffrey Horbar, Charlotte, VT
7 no name Washington County Charles Chamberlain, Brunswick, ME
8 WIZARD 16’8” Coquina Vagn Worm, Old Saybrook, CT
9 ROSIE B 17 Penobscot 17 David Gilroy, East Granby, CT
10 GREY LADY 19’6” Caledonia yawl Jon Gibney, Arlington, VA
11 GANNETT 17’ Atlantic 17 gunning dory Steve Woll, Pembroke, MA
12 NEWBOAT 19’6” Caledonia yawl Mike Duncan, Annandale, VA
13 REBECCA ANN 19’6” Caledonia yawl Dale Davenport, Linville, VA
14 SPEAR 21’ Beachcomber Alpha dory Dan Noyes, Newbury, MA
15 GOWAN 15’ Daisy dory-skiff Raymond Danforth, Shelburne, NH
16 no name 17’6” Welsford Pathfinder Tom Williamson, Windsor, VT
17 RAVEN 17’6” Norseboat Robert Pantel, Portland, ME
18 DRACO 18’ Gunning dory Richard Geiger, Castro Valley, CA
19 CARPENTER II 18’ Carpenter Denis Wang, Tilton, NH
20 OCARINA 18’ Shearwater John Silverio, Lincolnville, ME
21 LIFE GOAL NO. 9 13’2” Jimmy Skiff Ron Paro, Dover, NH
22 LEA 15’8” South Jersey Beach Skiff Steve Dwyer, Merrimac, MA
23 MOOSEBEC REACH BOAT 14’2” Moosebec Reach Boat Fredrick Hayden, China, ME
24 BELLA BARCA 18’ Kingston lobsterboat Sam Cousins, Easton, PA
25 HMS VICTORIA 17’ Matinicus double-ender Larry O’Brien, Salisbury, MA
26 BONNIE SEA 15’10 Kingston lobster boat Nathan Rome, Winchester, MA
27 PUCK 19’6” Double-ended pulling boat Bob Yorke, Scituate, MA
28 HERO MOMMY 14’ Small design (Dias) Omay Elphick, Pawtucket, RI
29 JUNIE JUMP-UP 17’ Penobscot 17 Turner Matthews, Bradenton, FL
30 JASMINE 19’6” Caledonia yawl Christopher Drouin, Auburn, NH
31 SNOBBEN 11’7” CLC Passagemaker Erik Linforth, Bethlehem, PA
32 PEGGY BLISS 18’ Racing dory William Richards, Georgetown, MA
33 SKYE 18’ Mower dory David McCulloch, Old Lyme, CT
34 CRICKET 16’2” Stretched Windward 15 Jim Luton, Brooklyn, NY
35 MOXY 15’ Marsh Cat Roy Hendrickson, Bokeelia, FL

No. Name LOA Type

2009 SRR Fleet List — Page 2

Owner and home port

March 27, 2009

36 LILY 19’ Double-ended pulling boat Allen Head, Concord, NH
37 OCCAM’S RAZOR 16’ Swampscott Dory Malcolm Forbes, Merrimack, NH
38 BRUCE’S BOAT 20’ Core Sound 20 Ray Frechette, Lewiston, ME
39 SOUTHERN SKIMMER 22’ EC 22 Graham Byrnes, Vandemere, NC
40 HOPEFUL OUTLOOK 19’7” Banks dory Sam Manning, Camden, ME
41 no name Peapod Giffy Full, Brooklin, ME
43 LITEN KUHLING Åfjordsfaering Ben Fuller, Cushing, ME
44 no name Delaware ducker Ben Fuller, Cushing, ME
45 RAN TAN Harrier Antonio Dias, Narragansett, RI
46 SUNDANCE 2 17’ Sloop Bill Corbett, Castine, ME
47 TREMOLINO Balancelle d'Espagnole Lance Lee, ,
48 NED LUDD 19’6” Caledonia yawl Geoff Kerr, Westford, VT
49 URCHIN 13’ Salisbury Point skiff Wendy Byar, Willingboro, NJ
50 LANCING MADURA Indonesian Gole'an Lance Lee, ,
51 EMERSON ALBURY 16’ Abaco bahamas dinghy Wade Smith, North Franklin, CT
52 ZEPHYR 22’ Sharpie John Rowse, Jamaica Plain, MA
53 LAPWING 15’8” Cat-ketch, sprit-boomed Tom Lathrup, Oriental, NC
54 no name 16’ Swampscot Dory David Porter, Brooklin, ME
55 no name Fusion faering Bruce Elfstrom, East Haddam, CT
56 no name unknown Bob Wolfertz, Rosemont, NJ
END

[Daniel Noyes]

The Big boat this year looks to be the Everglages challenge 22' core sound sharpie.
I'm bringing the A dory at 21' and Scout the Seapearl will be ther again as well (21')
I am interested to see the Mower dory should be fun.
A friend of mine is bringing his lincolnville wherry and Bill is bringing Ipswich Bay 18' Peggy Bliss
The Moosabeck Reach boat will not be the smallest craft this year as there is a little 13' Salisbury pointer signed up to attend.
Thoughts on performance on the reach?
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[kenjamin]

What, only six Caledonia Yawls?;)

[wtarzia]

The Big boat this year looks to be the Everglages challenge 22' core sound sharpie.

--- The EC22 is a great boat. I helped lift it off its trailer at the EC this year, so I think I earned at least the right to sit in it ;-) Is the Small Reach still doable this year or was there a deadline of some kind? Where can I get info about it? I wouldn't mind trying to bring my wooden 16 foot cat-ketch single outrigger sailing canoe. -- Wade

[Ron Paro]

--- Is the Small Reach still doable this year or was there a deadline of some kind? Where can I get info about it? -- Wade

Wade, the application process for this year is now closed. Sorry :(

Here are the application dates and the link to more information:
"We’ll start taking 2009 applications on January 1, by e-mail or mail. Applications must be received no later than March 2, 2009."
http://www.woodenboat.com/smallreach/

The link is found on the WoodenBoat website Home page.

[wtarzia]

Wade, the application process for this year is now closed. Sorry :(.

--- Dang! Thanks for the info. -- Wade

[Ron Paro]

Sometimes there are small reach skippers who are able to take on a crew member. If that is something that you would want to do, post your interest here and perhaps someone will have room in their boat.

[Daniel Noyes]

Does anyone have info on Zephyr? 22' Sharpie, photos? This could be a quick boat.

I cant wait to sail the Beachcomber in company with the Mower dory, these boats were designed within a couple miles of each other at essentially the same time, the Mower dory was drawn by a brilliant young yacht designer who went on to design Americas cup challengers, the Alpha by a dory builder at the height of his career relying on a tradition of working dories and "Age of Sail" ideas on what makes a fast boat.

Wade, like Ron mentions the boat entries are closed, I think the deadline is pretty firm as the Regatta is free. I think reviewing boats and sending out info all spring + summer would take alot of time.
Crew sign up is open
If you have an in with the EC 22 give them a call, also Ray Frechett will be there with the Core Sound 20. Any other names you recognize? I already have a potential 6 crew members for the Beachcomber Alpha wich means we will likely take turns.
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[wtarzia]

Hi -- No, I don't have any ins on the EC22, I was merely one of the Everglades Challenge contestants and helped lift his boat off the trailer, since I was eager for any excuse at all to have a look at that starkly efficient and handsome (I won't say beautiful) boat. I will try to remember to keep an eye out for the next one. Besides being around other wooden boat sailing folk, I was specifically interested in watching how some of the quadrilateral ketch-rig people sailed their boats (Coquina, etc.), and also for them to see how I was sailing my own cat-ketch-standing lug outrigger, so that I might learn what I am doing right or wrong. Where I sail out of New Haven, I'm the only with this kind of rig except for the big schooners, which are out of my social class ;-) -- Wade

[phiil]

Actually, there is a fee this year. I believe it's to cover insurance for the event. But, at $30/boat, it's still more fun then you can have anywhere else. That works out to $10 per day, making it cheaper than staying home.

Phil Bacon and "Scout" (Sea Pearl 21)

[Daniel Noyes]

SRR this week!
hope to get some great video and photos to share.

Alpha dory is on the trailer and ready to row/sail

There is a new flotation requirement after 2 capsizes in 2 yrs (07 ducker, 08 Peggy Bliss) and I have done some last munite design changes including 4 inches of foam, floor boards and foam billets under the two middle seats.
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[Clinton B Chase]

I believe the SRR dates have been released. So, it is time to think about boats for next year. I would like to design an SRR boat with the key guidelines:

--inexpensive and relatively fast to build
--Stitch & Glue plywood, single chine construction (all 6mm)
--very lightweight sail and oar capability
--maximum 5'1" beam, 105 SF lug + a mizzen (so a yawl)
--rowable by one person, or tandem

The idea is somebody who wants to join the SRR or bring a new boat but has little time and $ to bring something new, this design would answer that, an SRR skiff. I've sketched some lines, but thought it be fun and good motivation for me to get thoughts here. It'd be nice to have something that is "marketable" for SRR type use, which is along the lines of use by a family for messing about, or use by serious sailers wanting to go have some fun yet be able to row when the wind dies and not cuss the boat.

[Tom Jackson]

Hi, all—
We've been looking at August 19-22, but it appears there may be some conflict with that date. This should be settled soon, and I'll post dates here as soon as they're finalized.

Tom Jackson

[Daniel Noyes]

I believe the SRR dates have been released. So, it is time to think about boats for next year. I would like to design an SRR boat with the key guidelines:

--inexpensive and relatively fast to build
--Stitch & Glue plywood, single chine construction (all 6mm)
--very lightweight sail and oar capability
--maximum 5'1" beam, 105 SF lug + a mizzen (so a yawl)
--rowable by one person, or tandem

The idea is somebody who wants to join the SRR or bring a new boat but has little time and $ to bring something new, this design would answer that, an SRR skiff. I've sketched some lines, but thought it be fun and good motivation for me to get thoughts here. It'd be nice to have something that is "marketable" for SRR type use, which is along the lines of use by a family for messing about, or use by serious sailers wanting to go have some fun yet be able to row when the wind dies and not cuss the boat.

Sharpie type hull?

[Ron Paro]

Clint, are you still thinking of the Goat Island Skiff as a starting point for this design? I think it meets most of the criteria as designed. Perhaps move lug rig forward a little and add the mizzen?

[Clinton B Chase]

GIS is good, needs to be longer. I may also be interested in something with a little more piercing effect through chop. If it were built from offsets on a strongback, I'd consider just stretching the Goat Island Skiff. The flat bottom is a nice feature for an SRR boat, which pretty well screws up my idea of a v-bottom S & G hull. The Deblois Street Dory may be built by plans holder #1 by the time of the SRR. That would be cool!

Here is what I am thinking for the GIS but longer. I think 17' would be great.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/83ab8c453c.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

Yes, she'd be fun to have at the SRR. Super easy to beach. Just need room for an extra crew member or two. A way to row tandem would be useful, though not essential to be there and have fun. It isn't a race, right? Something that I think is nifty about the Goat is the Aussie style rudder. The boat is fast, too. We blew by some 420s the other day in a customer's Goat. Drawbacks to the boat at this point: needs a mizzen (check, that we can add), needs a little more room for a 3rd crew member, difficult to row because of single rowing station and the only place for crew is on aft tank top. If others are interested, we might be able to inspire the designer, Michael Storer, to make some changes for us. It'd be inspiring for me too, to have two of these at the SRR.

Clint

[Steve Paskey]

The Moosabeck Reach boat will not be the smallest craft this year as there is a little 13' Salisbury pointer signed up to attend.

There's one smaller still ... a CLC Passagemaker pram dinghy, at 11'7".

[Clinton B Chase]

I wonder if AWOL on the other thread in Designs/Plans would be a candidate for my original thoughts. Looks pretty cool.

[Daniel Noyes]

For those interested in this sort of event (who is'nt?) here's the fleet list for SRR 2010!!!

1 FAR & AWAY Nomans Land Boat 17’8” Tom Jackson Brooklin ME
2 DELIGHT Caledonia yawl 19’6” John Shinaberger Bradford PA
3 SPEAR Beachcomber Alpha dory 21’ (replaced by PEGGY BLISS Ipswich Bay 18') Dan Noyes Newbury MA
4 LITTLE OTTER Ness yawl 19’2” Jeffrey Horbar Charlotte VT
5 LEITRIM Amesbury skiff 15’6” Bill McCullom Boxford MA
6 DOLFIN Whitehall 15’ Norman Otto Sandwich MA
7 LADY GRACE Core Sound 17 17’ Susan Clark Tilton NH
8 DRAKE Faering derivative 17’4” Clint Chase Portland ME
9 GOWAN Daisy dory-skiff 15’ Raymond Danforth Shelburne NH
10 RED MOLLY Peapod 18’ Paul LaBrie Exeter ME
11 FRISKY LADY Gaff sloop 15’6” Mike Duncan Annandale VA
13 BONNIE SEA Kingston lobster boat 15’10” Nathan Rome Winchester MA
14 GANNETT Atlantic 17 gunning dory 17’ Steve Woll Pembroke MA
15 SCOUT Sea Pearl 21 21’ Philip Bacon Guilford CT
16 PUCK Double-ended pulling boat 19’6” Bob Yorke Scituate MA
18 SOUTH WIND II Penobscot 14’ Joel Jensen Falmouth ME
19 KINGFISHER New Haven Sharpie 18’ David Thomasson Knoxville TN
20 CARPENTER II Carpenter 18’ Denis Wang Tilton NH
21 LEA South Jersey Beach Skiff 15’8” Steve Dwyer Merrimac MA
22 MEANDER Matinicus peapod 16’ Michael Howard Amherst MA
23 OCARINA Shearwater 18’ John Silverio Lincolnville ME
25 KIWI Welsford Pathfinder 17’6” Tom Williamson Windsor VT
26 PEPITA Melonseed skiff 16’ Mike Wick Morristown NY
27 REBECCA ANN Caledonia yawl 19’6” Dale Davenport Linville VA
28 MARY JO Coquina 16’8” John Hutchison Saxonburg PA
29 NONA B sail and row skiff 14’ Steven Bauer Portland ME
30 DOLPHIN Green Island 15 15’8” Hank Vincenti Sagamore Hills OH
33 PRETTY LADY Drascome Dabber 15’ Don Small Castine ME
34 JUNIE JUMP-UP Penobscot 17 17’ Turner Matthews Bradenton FL
35 PAGAN Faering derivative 18 Bruce Elfstrom East Haddam CT
37 GORP Passagemaker 11’6” Justin Muller Marblehead MA
38 LITTLE SHAVER Core Sound 15 15’3” Stuart Whitcomb Portland OR
39 RACHEL Myst 18’3” Ted Cody Springfield VT
41 BINNACLE BAT Thistle 17’ Allan Pickman Temple NH
42 CUCKOO Coquina 16’8” Maynard Bray Brooklin ME
44 EMERSON ALBURY Abaco bahamas dinghy 16’ Wade Smith North Franklin CT
45 HOLD THE HAGGIS Sea Pearl 21’ John Henderson Wayne NJ
47 LITEN KUHLING åfjordsfaering 19’ Ben Fuller Cushing ME
48 no name Delaware ducker Ben Fuller Cushing ME
52 JASMINE Caledonia yawl 19’6” Christopher Drouin Auburn NH
53 RAN TAN Harrier 17’6” Ben Fuller Cushing ME
54 WALK-ON-WATER modified Grumman canoe 18’ Sam Manning Camden ME
55 SUPERSEED Melonseed skiff 18’10” David McCulloch Old Lyme CT
56 OCOTILLO BLOSSOM Norseboat 17.5 17’6” Tom White-Hassler Newington CT
57 SELKIE Caledonia yawl 19’6” Joel Page Jeffersonville VT
58 CALICO JACK Coquina 21’ Bob Lavertue Ludlow MA
59 OCCAM’S RAZOR Swampscott Dory 16’ Malcolm Forbes Merrimack NH
60 ELSIE Swampscott dory type 20’ Allen Head Concord NH
61 CRICKET Stretched Windward 15 16’2” Jim Luton Brooklyn NY
62 TESS Pelican 14’7” Henry Pinson Attleboro MA
63 NED LUDD Caledonia yawl 19’6” Geoff Kerr Westford VT
64 ZEPHYR Sharpie 22’ John Rowse Jamaica Plain MA
66 BRUCE’S BOAT Core Sound 20 20’ Ray Frechette Lewiston ME
70 SALLIE ADAMS Carolina spritsail skiff 21’ Jerome Bein Erie PA
71 WOLFFISH Washington County Peapod 15’4” Charles Chamberlain Brunswick ME

[StevenBauer]

Here is #29, Nona B:
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/2010%20pictures/07-24-10_1156.jpg?t=1280024286

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/2010%20pictures/07-24-10_1155.jpg?t=1280024286


Steven

[Daniel Noyes]

classic SRR Steven,
will the paint be dry when she goes on the trailer or is it air drying on the way up? :)

SRR 08 I built the Alpha dory, set up the mast and sail in the drive way the night before, took everything down, packed it up and drove 5 hrs. to Wooden Boat for the first ever time putting the dory in the water!

I rember you screwing on oar locks on the elf in 07 right there on the lawn thursday night.

[Daniel Noyes]

SRR video
Ipswich Bay 18, SF Pelican, Coquina, Welsford navigator (I think, red sails), another Coquina, a mellonseed (gaff rig), a gaff rigged yawl with bow sprit and jib, and a streach shearwater with red sheer strake, in back ground, Core Sound 20.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLA9Y6Doc14&feature=channel

[Daniel Noyes]

Here's SRR participant Peggy Bliss my own design I call an "Ipswich Bay 18" sailing dory
Why Ipswich Bay? I was playing off the Massachusets Bay waterline class sloops that she is loosely styled after. I drew her roughly to the waterline class rules for a 12 1/2' waterline wich means she was designed to race competitively with other boats that have a 12 1/2 ft water line, a design with a longer waterline should be faster than her and she should be quicker than shorter waterline length boats. Needles to say these boats developed to cram the maximum boat on the minium waterline.
Here she is at about 10 mph Friday morning the 29th.http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/4865140818_b7e6eeec75_b.jpg

The SRR is loosely based on european Raid Racing events... with out the Race, of course we notice if were passing or being passed but there's no start or finish and no loosers, all winners. The real point for me is to be out there sailing with the fleet watching the other boats (many very interesting historic designs) perform to their best, and hopefully returning the favour for other participants!

[PeterSibley]

Jealousy my friends !...it would have been wonderful !

[Daniel Noyes]

Clint on the photo thread you were making some interesting performance points about Drake, care to give us more #s
5 mph rowing up wind, for how long? did you have a gps along Friday how fast werwe you sailing off the wind? this could prove a pretty impressive set of #s for all around performance, traveling very fast up wind and at a respectable speed off the wind while saving some energy.

Every year at the SRR the row boats are first to the destinations, I have 2 theories
1 row boats are faster
2 row boats are less fun more work, and so pick the quickest easiest course... :)

As a member of Rings Island Rowing Club for 15 +- yrs. I participated in the Great Gerrish Island race in Kittery Maine wich had a class for sail and oar, it was always won by the boat that rowed the most... one year a nutshell pram rowed the course and raised it's sail for the final leg as it crossed the finish line, first in the sail and oar class, it beat a windsurfer and several larger sail oriented designs in moderate (12-18 mph) but unfavourable wind.

[Daniel Noyes]

Jealousy my friends !...it would have been wonderful !

It was...

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Clint on the photo thread you were making some interesting performance points about Drake, care to give us more #s
5 mph rowing up wind, for how long? did you have a gps along Friday how fast werwe you sailing off the wind? this could prove a pretty impressive set of #s for all around performance, traveling very fast up wind and at a respectable speed off the wind while saving some energy.

Every year at the SRR the row boats are first to the destinations, I have 2 theories
1 row boats are faster
2 row boats are less fun more work, and so pick the quickest easiest course... :)


4.5 knts on the nose of the wind rowing the rhumb line gets there as fast as a sailboat sailing 45 degrees off the wind at about 7.5 knts.

Planing boats have a difficult time planing hard to the wind. Generally you need to be about 60-65 ff the wind to be planing, and that would require 9.5 to 10 kknts of boat speed to cover enough ground fast enough to get at same destination as rhumb line.

Now if destination was a beam reach, it would be far easier to come ahead in a sailboat.

[Daniel Noyes]

good points
Ok so now we have the stamina of the rower vs. the strength of the wind and stamina of the sailors, I think the sailors will hold up far longer than a rower.
Seems like the lower the wind speed the better all around the rowing oriented boat, Drake type, does. Maintaining 7.5 kts wich is above hull speed at 45 deg. off the wind will be a pretty tall order for Peggy Bliss, probably require at least 14-18? mph breeze, the big deaql is we have to be fully powered up to achieve these speeds. as the wind gets stronger things look better for us sail boats, because rowing against the wind becomes more difficult.
I see Drake as very effective speed wise because it has vastly superior speed, especially to windward, in the lighter air when our boats are not powered up, this is actually a pretty large percentage of sailing days around Newengland in the summer.

also notice Drake type was no slouch sailing off the wind actually quite fast because of the narrow very easily driven hull and relatively easy to handle.

The Beachcomber Alpha dory has a similar capability to row and sail well, but skewed more in the sailing direction, it is quite inferior to Drake rowing into any sort of wind because of the relatively high topsides... but if there is wind then it can sail, if there is no wind it will still not be as fast as Drake but much closer and certainly much faster than IB 18 or Core Sound rowing.

[Daniel Noyes]

Ray I'm also interested in the displacement hull vs. planing hull comparison
I was struck when sailing down wind to lunch Friday by the speed of the streach Shear water in particular, Peggy Bliss had probably 2x as much sail as the shear water but we just eased past her barely by 1 mph +-
We saw last year the Alpha dory displacement speed relative to the core Sound in very light wind.
How much sail area does the CS 20 carry (and how much with the staysail)?
I would also be interested in the S.A. of the shear water we sailed with.

Ipswich Bay 18, Peggy Bliss carries 180 sqft in jib and main.

I think the relative good performance of the displacement hulls in light wind is largely due to their low wetted surface area, they aproximate a semi circle in their sections, while our planeing boats have wide flat bottoms that have greater contact with the waters surface. we can reduce this by intentionally heeling our hull, thisworks quite well on peggy Bliss, get the weight forward and allow her to heel down near the rail and the shape presented to the water becomes more semicurcular.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

CoreSound 20 rows with 1 person on one oar at about 2 knts.

As I tell clients it is not a performance rowing boat, however it is perfectly reasonable to have oars sole means of auxillary propulsion if you care to not have a motor

[Ray Frechette Jr]

CS 20 stock sail area is 150 sq ft. Staysail adds another 80 Sq ft but can only be carried with effect to about 60 degrees off wind before drag overcomes lift. On points downwind at about 140 degrees Staysail starts to starve the main. I am still learning to use the staysail to advantage. at around 140 degrees you want to drop staysail, gybe the main and rehoist staysail to run wing on wing. As rig is unstayed you let Main run about 20-40 degrees forward of the mast to prevent accidnetal Gybe.

I learned Day two about the starving of Main as we sailed down to Sheldrake Island. It was still pulling better than not having Staysail up, but not a whole lot more than stock sails.

Spoke to Graham that night to get more coaching on the sail and he advised to drop staysail, gybe main and rehoist staysail in those conditions for about a 40% increase in boatspeed.

Day three I tired it out solo sailing around point to Bean Island and found him to be right again.

I too saw how slippery boats can make way nicely in very light airs. Maynard Bray in his Coquina ghosted past me out of the harbor day three in winds measuring under 2 MPH per Davis Windgage. Once underway with staysail up and drawing well after out of harbor I was able to cut up pas thim though and it was a satisfying feeling.

With CS wide hull it is hard to heel it over enough with only 1 person on board, that and tiller extension only allows me so far forward.

Where the CS would really shine is wind speeds over 15 knts.

At 10 knts with stock sail boat readily hops onto plane out to about 7.5 to 8 knts boat speed, I have seen it up to 12 knts boat speed in Stockton Springs harbor sailing with Eric Jergenson, Captain of the Bowdoin.

At SRR with Staysail up and 3 adults on board we were able to get it to plane on a beam reach in as little as 8 MPH windspeed per Davis Wind Guage.

At this point I am still learning to sail the boat to her full potential. My Pointing ability has improved dramatically over last year due to alteration of the rig a bit. I need to add a few telltales to wring out the last bit of speed in her in lighter airs as I am off a bit in realizing what it can do when properly trimmed.

I spoke to Graham about how I was having trouble outpacing Sukie without staysail up and he was downright Brutal. His response is that she was obviously outsailing me. the 17 has less speed potential than the 20, and I also have battens and larger sail roach than her boat.

When I asked Graham what I might be able to do better his response was it was either sail trim or boat trim.

Gee that was illuminating!

Hope to have time on the boat with him next year so he can see what I am doing well and also what I can do better .

[Daniel Noyes]

CS I spoke to Graham about how I was having trouble outpacing Sukie without staysail up and he was downright Brutal. His response is that she was obviously outsailing me. the 17 has less speed potential than the 20, and I also have battens and larger sail roach than her boat.

.

depending on wind speed you could be seeing the same thing with Sukie as displacement hulls, more sail area per wetted surface? also the cs 17 is lighter so should respond a little quicker to light puffs of breeze...
or it could be your sailing (:

untill a wide stable planeing hull is powered up and we're sitting on the rail were actually hauling extra hull and wetted surface area around with us.

The Alpha hull is very narrow and relatively tippy because it has so little boat in the watter, in light wind this means you have a very "small" boat as far as wetted surface goes, as the wind strengthens it heels down and only becomes more stable as more boat enters the water, once the rail is aproaching water level, in this mode of sailing it can take lots of wind, will not plane, but will sail faster than hull speed.

Also I would point out that the displacement boats tend to be light hulls, mostly open boats while the Ipswich Bay 18 and Core Sounds have pretty extensive decking arrangements with the saftey and convience and weight that those entail.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4143/4865143476_b9db82a93e.jpg vs http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2624/3882378845_43e6a2f0ee.jpg

[Ray Frechette Jr]

In extensive testing by Graham the 20 proves faster than the 17 in all conditions.

add to that I have comparatively greater sail area than Sukie with the roach and battens.

Mostly it can only be attributed to lack on the part of the captain.

The 17 weighs in at around 350 lbs before crew and gear and the 20 at around 500.

By and large the boats do not readily give up much to displacement hulls at low windspeeds and they much more than make up for it in higher windspeeds when the light displacement craft need to reef down and are overpowered. Planing hulls on the other hand turn extra power into motive power rather than heeling forces..

[Daniel Noyes]

I'm looking at a geniker for Peggy Bliss, it's for sale for under $300
21' on the luff and 13' on the foot, It would just set from the tip top of IB 18 mast and could be sheeted back near the main sheet traveler, this would be a monster sail but I'm left wondering if the complication of sail and lines is worth it on this boat...