Preferred respirators or dust masks to use in shop?

[dmede]

The post on dust in varnish and air filtration reminded me that I meant to ask you all about what dust mask/respirators are best suited to sanding and cutting woods like Western Red Cedar?

I’ve been doing plank work in WRC lately and have noticed that my throat and lungs are getting much more irritated than usual. Since the first bad day I have been religious about putting in the dust mask when I go into the shop now but I still get some irritation. Do I need to use a special respirator or just a different dust mask?

This is what I’m using now: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/eserv/eclipse.ecl?PROCID=WEBDISP.WOEB.MAIN&ID_1=882&ID_2=886&CLEV=4&TRACKNO=J100076 5260

Dave

[George Roberts]

Lots of ventilation.

I find masks to be uncomfortable. Push the dirty air out. Pull clean air in.

[JimD]

Dave, maybe try a welder's mask. That's what I use. They are similar to a paper mask but are the delux version with a neoprene gasket around the edge to provide a near perfect fit to your face, and a breathing valve in front. They will run you a few bucks, tho, maybe $8 or so, but give far better protection and the breathing valve actually makes them easier to use and more comfortable than the cheap paper ones.

[htom]

I've gone to the 3M 6200 half-mask respirator for almost everything. I have a full beard and get much better filtering with that than with any of the masks like you're describing. I see that they've come out with a new one, the 7500; I haven't used it.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/eserv/eclipse.ecl?PROCID=WEBDISP.WOEB.MAIN&ID_1=6&ID_2=876&ID_3=883&ID_4=891&ID_5=8 95&CLEV=4&TRACKNO=J1054113192

[rbhawk]

Dave, I've been using a North 7700 half-mask respirator for years and find it very comfortable. I would strongly recommend a P100 type of cartridge, as it filters out virtually every particulate- it's rating is something like 99.97%. Another thing I like about the North is the particulate cartriges are smaller and lighter than other brands. This is probably one reason it feels more comfortable for hours. Suppliers like Grainger and Lab Safety carry North.

Ray

[NormMessinger]

Nose hairs. However, they are not alway efficacious.

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Dave- I use the Racal powered system- a little pricy but very comfortable to use all day long. A butt pack holds the battery, power unit and air filters- it blows cool filtered air up a hose into a hardhat that subsequently dumps it on you face behind a plastic mask. You get positive air flow behind you mask- no dust can reach your face.

[Dave Gray]

I use the 3M respirator half mask. Cursed with glasses since the age of 9, I find anything else fogs them up. The respirator has the benefit of being comfortable, more so than a paper mask, and filters down to much smaller particles. Less crap to cough up later on...

[John of Phoenix]

Hook your sander up to a shop vac. Makes a huge difference.

[dmede]

Thanks all. I do have a half mask respirator I use for anything with fumes. It works great but generally gets too hot and humid in there after a while. I may just need to use a better version of my regular dust mask. Ive seen some washable fabric ones, but pricey.

[Hal Forsen]

I have one of the washable dustmasks "Dust Be Gone" that is marketed by a wood turner. Got it about 5 years ago and think I paid $25. It has paid for itself many times over I'm sure. For sanding and general woodwork it's a big improvement over the standard fare; it filters quite well, is very comfortable, doesn't cloud my glasses and when I'm done with it for the day it gets washed and hung up instead of going into the landfill.
My 2 cents.
HF

[JimConlin]

I use the 3M half-face mask. #6200 is the medium size, #6300 is large and #6100 is small. Jamestown doesn't have the 6100 or 6300 but they're widely distributed.
Does anyone know whether the vapors of WRC are toxic or is it just the dust? If the vapors are nasty, too, there are a variety of cartridges for the 3M 6XXX masks for organic solvents and other bad stuff. I wonder if the organic solvent cartridges take care of WRC smell. They work very well on various paint solvents.

[ 03-16-2005, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: JimConlin ]

[Jim H]

I switched to the 3M 6200 w/organic vapor cartridges after the first time I used Smith's CPES.

[Bruce Hooke]

I am no expert in this but I would be mighty surprised if western red cedar gave off enough vapors to matter. So, if you go the respirator route I would get a straight dust filter. If you want to go whole hog get a HEPA dust filter. If you want to extend the life of whatever dust filter you get, then get a pre-filter that fits over the main filter...

That said, while a respirator would certainly do the trick I agree that wearing one all day is not much fun, so I would probably start by trying to figure out whether a less drastic route is viable. On the other hand, you don't want to mess around with your health!

Lab Safety Supply is certainly a good source for this sort of thing. The only downside is that they then proceed to regularly send you 2" thick catalogs on a regular basis, which I find a bit annoying. At the least their website is a good way to figure out what's available. http://www.labsafety.com

[Donn]

Originally posted by NormMessinger:
Nose hairs. However, they are not alway efficacious.I find if you braid them into dreadlocks, they are much more effective.

I couldn't read much of the thread, because it's been blown up. Did anyone mention the full-face, sourced air masks? They're spendy, but they look comfortable and they'd work over whiskers and glasses, and keep you cool as well.

[Doug Canada]

HEPA =High Efficient Partical Arrest
Used only for dust!

Dust respirator vs. (paper) mask
Respirators should be fit tested.
Dust mask must have two straps and can be bought any where.

Ogranic Vapour (cartridge) respirator is primarily a charcoal filter.
Used with epoxy.

3M makes them all.

A "Racal" positive presure respirator is a nice idea.

Doug

[StevenBauer]

I've been thinking about trying this one:

http://www.garrettwade.com/images//product/family/46S0101.jpg

'Positive Pressure Dust Mask'
Cartridge masks are always the best way to protect yourself. But let's face it, as necessary as they are, even the best masks are uncomfortable. This one however, is a great improvement at a reasonable cost. The secret of the design is light weight and a small 2-speed fan built into the front of the silicone mask. Powered by 4 AA batteries (not included), the fan helps pull air through the filter, bathing your face with cool, clean air.

We think that this is the most innovative design in a cartridge respirator that we have seen in many years, and we are very excited about its very nice function at a fraction of the cost of other powered styles. Made in Taiwan.

Each comes with three cartridges, two for dust and a third for solvents (paint and lacquer fumes) and 10 fiber pre-filters. (Respirators usually only come with one cartridge.

$79 bucks at Garrett Wade

Steven

[Norske3]

My filter....3M charcoal ...is for vapors... how come I can still smell the vapors?...paint spray. :confused:

[ 03-16-2005, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: Norske3 ]

[JimConlin]

If you can smell the vapors, the cartridge is shot. They adsorb the nasties in activated charcoal. When the charcoal is charged, it's done. Store the cartridges in a plastic bag or better yet, foil to lengthen life.
I gather that activated charcoal can be cleansed, i suppose with vacuum. I'll try it on a pair of cartridges and report results.

[Figment]

After years of paper-masks I finally bought a half-mask respirator a few years ago. Wow, what a world of difference it made.

A few months ago Jamestown had a sale on the full-face 3M unit (#6800?). Again, WOW what a difference.
Spraying paint may be ok with a half-mask, but for any extended sanding or grinding, where you need your face right up in the mess to see what's going on, the full-face units are worth their salt.

[Brian Palmer]

Norske,

You may also have a poor seal or fit. If you are using a mask for organic vapors, you should be clean shaven and have a fit test, as someone else recommended. In the mean time, try taking the filters cartridges off and cover the inlet holes and inhale. If you can inhale, you have a poor fit.

I took a fit test at work. They put my head in a large bag with the mask on and a smoke tube. The smoke WILL make you cough if any gets through the mask. Sure enough, I coughed and had to go to another size mask.

-- Brian

[Rod Tait]

I have been working with cedar for years and always wear a good quality 3M mask and have three 1000 CFM filters running almost full time in the shop along with dust collection at source as much as possible. Can't be too careful with that stuff. Have also seen a respirologist twice to make sure I am not developing any long term effects of the dust. The toxins in red cedar irritate the linings of the esophagus, causing the production of mucous. The effect may not happen for many hours, which means if you are waking up in the middle of the night in a coughing fit, you are over-exposed. Believe me from someone who has had it, it is not fun.

Many retired mill workers in my area (pacific northwest) are have a tough time of it, since safety and knowledge was not available years ago.

Take care.

Check out this site for lots of info on dust collection and hazards.
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/DC4Dummies.cfm

[Bob Smalser]

Originally posted by NormMessinger:
Nose hairs. However, they are not alway efficacious.I prefer one of my Peterson or Duncan Hill briars charged with a load of Half and Half.

[JimConlin]

The 3M 6800 is the medium size of the full face mask. Small is 6700 and large is 6900. They're out there, but not via Jamestown.

[dmede]

Wow! This topic sure caught fire. Great advice, I'm glad I asked.

I think I may look into getting particulate filters for my half mask just to try it. Should be lighter than the vapor cartridge so maybe more comfortable. I wish I had thought about having the half mask do double duty when I bought it, I might have picked a better model.

Thanks again.

[Ed Harrow]

Originally posted by John Teetsel:
Hook your sander up to a shop vac. Makes a huge difference.Bingo! Get it at the source.

[dmede]

Originally posted by Ed Harrow:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John Teetsel:
Hook your sander up to a shop vac. Makes a huge difference.Bingo! Get it at the source.</font>[/QUOTE]I work in an old, detached, single car garage that for some reason shares elctricity with the bathroom in my house and maybe the hall light (I'm not sure). There are two bare copper wires that connect my garage to the house and they occasionally tick... the circut breaker trips if it even thinks you might turn something on.

Point is, I can have my shop lights and overhead flourecents on and one power tool plugged in, or two tools plugged in and no shop lights (but I can have the flourescents on). I can run the vac and the planer together for short periods of time but only with all the lights off, no radio and the bathroom cant be in use.

So lets see... shop vac and RO sander, overhead lights but no shop lights, don't need the radio cause I wont be able to hear it and if I can keep the fiance out of the bathroom were good!

hmm.

[ 03-17-2005, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

[John of Phoenix]

I can run the vac and the planer together for short periods of time but only with all the lights off... http://www.rodin.cc/17397.gif

Watch your fingers around that planer. ;)

[Tristan]

The oils and other chemicals produced by some woods can be nasty. As noted in this thread, western red cedar can produce lasting effects. Also, some people are terribly allergic to cedars. I had an interesting experience with a tropical hardwood that grows in S. Florida. Was turning a small piece Jamaican Dogwood (a large legumemous tree) when I began to feel a peculiar soapy taste in my mouth. Yep, they also call this tree "Fish Fuddle," because it is full of rotenone. Best to avoid the dust of any wood, as the least you can get, over time, is emphysema.

[L.W. Baxter]

I like to pull my t-shirt over my nose when the going gets really bad.

[Doug Canada]

If you can smell any thing through the respirator, you probably do not have a proper fitting respirator / mask.
You "need" to be fit tested.
It takes a lot to get "break through" (full cartridge).
I would dare say that over 50% of respirators or masks are used improperly.

A proper fitting respirator is every thing!

Not all makes and models will fit your face.

If you have facial hair (beard) you will never get a proper fit!

A positive presure respirator is the easiest and most expensive way to go (in most cases).

"Local" exhaust ventilation is another option.
Removing the problem at the "source".
The exhaust ventilation must be right at the source (within an inch or two).
It must capture all of it.

Do not confuse this with "general" exhaust ventilation, which will draw the fume, dust, gas or mist right by your face.

To be "sensitized" to a material (eg., wood dust or epoxy) destroys all the fun in making boats.
I will also say that to become sensitized to a material can take several years or less and that it is dependent on a variety of things.

Doug

[NormMessinger]

Originally posted by L.W. Baxter:
I like to pull my t-shirt over my nose when the going gets really bad.Heh heh! I know a good lung surgen when you are ready.

[NormMessinger]

"I work in an old, detached, single car garage that for some reason shares elctricity with the bathroom in my house and maybe the hall light (I'm not sure)."

You need to put a penny behind the fuse and run a heavyier wire from your bathroom. :eek:

[dmede]

I have a nice Hamptom Bay High Velocity floor fan from HD. It has 3 speeds: high, super duper high and "you beter have everything you dont want on the street nailed down".

Would placing this in the door to my garage at floor level, blowing out be of any help in keeping dust down in the garage while working? Or will it just make things worse?

[Doug Canada]

StevenBauer

The positive pressure respirator that you mention above may not be 100% recommended.
You still are counting on proper fiting.
If you do not have a good seal the (dirty) air will always take the path of least resistance.

Not sure if the Racal has been mentioned. $$$

If you want to go with a cartridge respirator (vs. dust mask) I highly recommend to be fit tested.
Fit testing is about a 1/2 hour specific
procedure.

Where do you get this done?
Ask a safety supplier in your area.
I belive 3M does it for free if you buy their product (and probably in volume).

The problem with respirators is that they may give you a false sense of security.

I have to often seen the "twenty plus years" after effect of a false sense of security, in the work environment.

All the best,
Doug