Making a War Crime Culture

[Ian McColgin]

This army general was tasked with a more general mission that a prosecutor’s investigation into the incident itself. The problems he exposes are not confined to the Marines, and are not unusual in forces operating in unjust or unlawful wars.

Published on Saturday, April 21, 2007 by Reuters
General’s Report on Haditha Condemns Marines
by Reuters staff

WASHINGTON - A U.S. Army general concluded the Marine Corps chain of command in Iraq ignored “obvious” signs of “serious misconduct” in the slayings of two dozen civilians in Haditha, Iraq, in 2005, The Washington Post reported on Saturday.The report by Maj. Gen. Eldon A. Bargewell, obtained by the newspaper, also found that commanders fostered a climate that devalued the life of innocent Iraqis to the point that U.S. soldiers considered their deaths insignificant.

Bargewell’s investigation found officers may have willfully ignored reports of the civilian deaths to protect themselves and their units from blame.

The investigation covered enlisted personnel through the two-star general commanding the 2nd Marine Division at the time.

Bargewell found no specific cover-up, but he concluded there also was no interest at any level in investigating allegations of a massacre, the Post reported.

Bargewell’s report, now unclassified, focuses on the reporting of the incident and the training and command climate within the Marine Corps leadership. It does not address the November 19, 2005 incident in detail.

On that day, a roadside bomb exploded and killed one Marine in a convoy of Humvees. In reaction, a squad of Marines raided several homes and killed 24 Iraqi civilians.

The Marines have told investigators they believed they were taking small arms fire from the houses and were following rules of engagement when they responded.

The investigation began in March 2006 after an initial inquiry found the Marines did not intentionally kill innocent civilians.

A Marine Corps spokesman declined to comment, the Post reported. Marine officials have generally not discussed the incident because it is under investigation.

© Reuters 2007.

[Osborne Russell]

Bargewell found no specific cover-up, but he concluded there also was no interest at any level in investigating allegations of a massacre, the Post reported.

This will always the tendency, even in the best run military in the most just war. That's why countering this tendency is the military's highest duty, next to defeating the enemy.

[Kaa]

Anyone finds this surprising..?

Kaa

[Osborne Russell]

As Watson said to Holmes . . .

[George Roberts]

I thought this was a war.

While I might be outraged, I expected it all along. That is what happens in war.

[Osborne Russell]

I thought this was a war

Against whom?

[geeman]

I agree with George, tho there are "rules of war".Stuff happens,its not all as cut a dried over there nor as easy to navigate as it would seem to us sitting here in our easy chairs monday morning quarter backing.
People get killed in war, and sometimes its not always the bad guys.
We fight wars with human beings, and human beings make mistakes.It will always be so.

[Ian McColgin]

Yeah stuff happens. That's why Gen Patton ordered summary field execution of rapists in his army.

War crimes become more than occasional abberations when the leadership of a criminal war tolerates criminal behavior.

[Osborne Russell]

Watch the last 2 episodes of Band of Brothers until it gets into your block head. Well before the combat ends the effort to gain the trust and cooperation of the enemy and the occupied population kicks into high gear. The masses are easily bought off with choclate and chewing gum but the partisans, the managers, and the intelligentsia require something more substantial. Bottom line, the conquered must be convinced that the conquerors recognize the interests they have in common. This requires the conquerors to state their principles and adhere to them.

Now why would the occupied support a principle that restrains them, but not their conquerors? Like torture of captives, let's say.

For a pack of would-be nation-builders you people are grossly ignorant. "War is hell, duh".

[LeeG]

the first lie undid any positive outcome.

"get the terrists that brung us 9/11"
"drain the swamp"
the ala carte menu of justification for "pre-emptive war"

Nearly 1 in 7 Iraqis have been displaced.
The invasion and consequences are criminal.

[George Roberts]

Osborne Russell ---

Your statements might have worked prior to 1950 but

Times have changed. No one has a need to cooperate. In fact, those who do, lose.

I believe that the Iraq government has 7 major issues to resolve. None are close to resolution.

One of the issues deals with oil revenue distribution. I expect the resolution will be along the lines of: The oil production region will keep its revenue. The US will give large amounts of money to compensate the non production regions.

[Ian McColgin]

And irregardless of whatever political settlement happens in Iraq, our actual methods of engagement cause non-combatant deaths at a rate that is methodologically criminal. That's why we're losing.

[Osborne Russell]

Osborne Russell ---

Your statements might have worked prior to 1950 but

Times have changed. No one has a need to cooperate. In fact, those who do, lose.

Baloney. Whether it's a German general surrendering an army, or a single insurgent, the question is, am I better off surrendering? Depends on what treatment you expect to actually receive.

Otherwise, why does the UCMJ distinguish between lawful and unlawful use of force, in war?

Do you advocate that we abandon the distinction?

The Japenese, civilian and military, were notorious for refusing to surrender, because they convinced themselves, and we failed to convince them otherwise, that they could expect nothing but sadism from their captors. So we nuked them. Is that the direction you want to force the situation between the west and the Muslim world? Would that cause more or fewer otherwise moderate Muslims to join the Islamists?

[Milo Christensen]

So, we've degenerated in a coupla months from a war crimes culture to a culture of atrocity (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=66523)?

The people of the United States elected a majority to the House of Representatives who pledged to end the war, yes? But they got bought off with $30,000,000,000 in pork. Now that's an atrocious war crime, isn't it?

[PatCox]

Most american males seem to have homosexual rape fantasies that lie real close to the surface. Get a typical american male angry and the first thing they do is start talking about sticking something up your ass. They often combine this fantasy with their symbolic penis, their gun, and threaten to stick a shotgun up your ass. These kind of comments are so frequent and predictable its downright comical.

Abu Graihb seems to have simply ennabled some to live out their homoerotic fantasies.

[Osborne Russell]

Gals Who Love The Guys That Love Guns, starring Russell Crowe as Lynndie England.

[Osborne Russell]

So, we've degenerated in a coupla months from a war crimes culture to a culture of atrocity (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=66523)?

The people of the United States elected a majority to the House of Representatives who pledged to end the war, yes? But they got bought off with $30,000,000,000 in pork. Now that's an atrocious war crime, isn't it?

Yep. Post it as a caption to a grainy black and white photo of naked children screaming as they flee a B52 napalm attack.