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S/V Laura Ellen
04-18-2007, 07:01 PM
After the first three days of scheduled races, all races have been cancelled due to lack of wind.

John B
04-18-2007, 09:09 PM
its deja vu

Stiletto
04-18-2007, 09:51 PM
Yep, all over again.

John B
04-18-2007, 10:18 PM
I knew you were going to say that.

Woxbox
04-18-2007, 10:20 PM
Right, never any wind? I'm going out for the first time this weekend and, sure enough, no wind on the bay inthe forecast.

John B
04-18-2007, 10:26 PM
ah woxbox old chap, been expecting you.

bamamick
04-19-2007, 07:45 AM
Valencia weather. As a guy who has raced all my life I am not too worried about the wind, it'll come when it comes and it won't really effect the serious contenders. It WILL effect those teams like Germany who are still scrambling for sponsorship. It's not cool to invite people to watch a major sporting event and then have the dance be cancelled while you are waiting, but those of us who do this stuff understand.

From what I have read the wind will come and when it does it will be steady and of consistant strength. The only thing that bothers me is that it is now coming out that they always knew that this was a possibility and that they have tried to run the regatta a little earlier than they perhaps should have to avoid the 'normal' tourist season (July and August) along the Spanish Med. Hotels have already been booked, all of the guide and tour boats have already been booked, etc. Apparently the summer is the normal busy season in Valencia and the city fathers and Bertarelli worked together to ensure lots of euros falling from the sky this year, regardless of weather or not there was wind for racing in April.

But once again, the severity of the lack of wind is unexpected. They had to cancel about half of the Dragon Gold Cup in Palma last week. It'll come when it comes, and from what I've read we can look forward to an exciting series when it does.

Mickey Lake

Popeye
04-19-2007, 07:50 AM
as a billionaires sport , with marked exclusivity , i find it hard to take an interest

Russ Manheimer
04-19-2007, 10:02 AM
Mickey,

Have you tried the virtual cup coverage (http://www.americascupanywhere.com/). It's $40 but very cool. Especially the starts. The fleet starts were crazy; the match racing starts will be fun to watch as archived as you can speed up or slow down the action.

Still no wind this AM in Valencia.

Russ

bamamick
04-19-2007, 12:05 PM
And I probably won't. I will pick up the reports after they happen. I probably enjoy reading about it as much as I would watching it. To be quite honest with you, I get easily bored watching sailboat races (I know, that sounds funny, but unless I am in it I usually don't get too interested).

Mickey Lake

Popeye
04-19-2007, 12:28 PM
part of the excitement of sport would be projecting yourself into the role or having a personal stake in the outcome , point of pride etc ..

none of which is offered in megayachting

bamamick
04-19-2007, 01:40 PM
I would imagine that the television people are getting antsy. It's not like you've got a backup game in another city set up in case of rain, eh?

They should just take it back to Fremantle and do it every four years regardless of who wins. I have had many people tell me that those races are what got them interested in sailing in the first place, and for those of us who have done it, the spectacle of those boats racing in those conditions was pretty awe inspiring. If anyone cared to do something for the sport rather than for themselves, they would take the thing back to West Oz.

jmo Mickey Lake

MarkC
04-20-2007, 04:25 AM
none of which is offered in megayachting

except;

watching how a team works together or not

watching the skipper make decisions

watching if the mechanics of the boat hold-up or not

watching the decisions of the judges

watching to see if the design of the yacht suits the conditions (as not in the case of the NZ defender against alingi).

There is plenty of excitement there. There is point-of-pride with a minority sport such as sailing commanding world attention - for once.

bamamick
04-20-2007, 08:34 AM
Sounds like the Latin Rascals are fast against the Kiwis. Oracle crushes Germany. Sweden over SA. It's on, now.

Mickey Lake

bamamick
04-22-2007, 08:53 AM
The Germans and the Chinese held on respectively well. And Areva was whipping Desafio the last time I looked. Oracle came out very slow against the South Africans but seem to have found their stride. I am getting hooked (hey, it's racin' :)). I knew that I would once all the politicking stopped and the sailing began.

Like any other sport, the hype gets so aggravating, but when they blow the whistle, what happens on the field is more often than not a thing of beauty.

Mickey Lake

S/V Laura Ellen
04-22-2007, 08:59 AM
Things not going too well for NZ. Lost the first race, then sat out a race then a day of cancelled races. I'm sure they want to get a win under their belts soon so they can get their confidence back.

bamamick
04-22-2007, 09:14 AM
The guys like Germany, China, +39, and Areva (even though they are hanging on to a lead over Desafio right now) are not going to make the final four. Desafio, Victory, Shosho, and Luna Rossa are probably going to fight it out with the Latin Rascals for the last couple of spots. A lot of people are saying the ETNZ isn't fast and that they won't make the final four, but I don't believe that. They have too many resources and too much experience for that to happen, imo. Oracle looks very solid right now.

Personally, I think that Alinghi is going to crush the challenger in this thing. I am not sure that there has ever been a stronger team put together. Just kind of odd that Ed Baird is a relative unknown in his own country and that he is driving for the Swiss in this. I have never met Ed, but have known people who have known him for 30 years. A Laser guy from the St.Pete area who got into this pro sailing stuff when it first got going again and has kept at it and kept at it. Good on him.

Mickey Lake

S/V Laura Ellen
04-22-2007, 09:25 AM
What's with the China boat, is it just really slow, is it the crew that's slow or both?

NZ got their first win, that should help team morale. Oracle didn't look that strong, they didn't look faster than Shocholoza. If Shocholoza didn't screw up the spinnaker drop they had a good chance to win.

bamamick
04-22-2007, 09:59 AM
of the most impressive debuts that I can remember. The whole country is behind them (or so it would seem). They are using this as a way for black and white South Africans to come together just as they have in cricket and rugby. A pretty good start for this program. I hope that they don't fall victim to the politics.

The Germans are doing basically the same thing. German designers and of course, builders (which I think is about the only nationality requirement that they still have), a very high percentage of German sailors on the boat. They are learning. They approach every race as a chance to learn. I just wonder why Michael Illbruck didn't get involved in this? Doesn't matter, they are accomplishing what they wanted to get accomplished in this cycle.

The Chinese were talked into taking over a bankrupt French syndicate and they are using the same approach with a slightly different twist. There are only a few Chinese sailors in this go round. The vast majority of this team is French. They have commited to doing a few more cycles and most people believe that they are a couple away from competing. They will spend just enough money this time around to keep them in the game. That makes sense. They have no chance anyway. Now is just the time to learn and that's what they are doing.

The Brits have commited to the next one. Remember when Japan was considered an up-and-comer? Without the Dubai money will there be another New Zealand challenge in Europe? What about the guys from Oz? Rumors stir of a Brazilian challenge in the near future (you remember their VOR boat this last go round?). This thing is nowhere near death, and apparently there is just as much interest in an event where you can throw beaucoup of money at a bunch of guys doing something that has almost bankrupted me as there ever was. But as someone said, this is the one chance that we get as sailors to see our sport take front and center on the world's stage. As opposed to the six minutes of sailing 'highlights' that we get during the Olympics here in the States, this stuff will just get bigger and better over the next two months.

Mickey Lake

bamamick
04-22-2007, 02:13 PM
The wind petered out. What a regatta (so far). Even in the pitiful breeze there have been some very interesting races. They will try and do two flights tomorrow.

One thing that I will say for these monsters: someone reported yesterday that they were doing 9 knots in 6 knots of breeze. That's the kind of thing that we used to speak in awe of Tornados doing. What's so cool about the ACC's is that they are stripped down to the bare essentials for going fast. No head. No bunks. Nothing that's by necessity on a VOR boat. No freakin' engine. If it ain't for speed it ain't on the bloody boat. That is cool.

They'll have racks for the crews next. Mark my words. If they can figure out a way to do it they'll either have racks for the crews or they'll have deck wings like the old Kiwi 35 (unless it is penalized as beam, and then someone will figure out how to do it anyway more than likely). I have been studying the rigging on International Canoes quite a bit lately. That's what these things remind me of in spirit. No compromises. The only thing that matters is speed. I am glad that our sport has an outlet like this.

Mickey Lake

rbgarr
04-22-2007, 04:11 PM
If the boats can move at nine knots in six of wind you'd think they would lower the required windspeed for starting races (they only start and race in 7-23 knots). Maybe seven is the lower limit for downwind racing, though.

S/V Laura Ellen
04-22-2007, 04:15 PM
I find the most amazing thing is the manoeuvrability of these boats. The pre-start tactics are amazing.
I wish I could get some TV coverage of these races.

John B
04-22-2007, 04:24 PM
Its a bit terrifying when its 'lottery' conditions though isn't it.

I asked me mate the wbf lurker about Alinghi's keel and got a very nice answer back. to paraphrase 'Its black , has UBS written on it , its about 4 m long and has a cigar shaped bulb with wings, weighs about 18 tonnes......' yada yada. LOL. Just what I expected to hear in other words.

elf
04-22-2007, 04:44 PM
Here it is, guys. Wow!http://www.americascup.com/multimedia/images/img_traitees/2007/04/lvrr1070422cb_08829w_slideshow.jpg

HR
04-22-2007, 06:22 PM
We can't get TV coverage either, but you can get video highlights (about half hour per day) here (http://www.americascupanywhere.com/internet_tv/) - click on "On Demand" on the menu to the right of the window and "Highlights" on the top menu.

bamamick
04-22-2007, 06:46 PM
question mark, with the 'bump' just below the keel flange?

I was looking at some photos of the RC/44 the other day (the Coutt's marketed one design sailed on that pro circuit) and wondering about the evolution of sail design. The VOR boats still mirror the old standard 3/1 loa/beam formula, but have canting keels and daggerboards for upwind work, whereas the ACC boats have gotten more and more narrow with really deep keels. The idea behind the ACC boats appears to be to reduce the amount of wetted surface to a bare minimum while retaining the righting moment that the huge rigs require. You can have a long narrow hull if you have a very deep keel with a bulb. Cool. I also like the fat head mains. I figure that that will trickle down to boats like Finns and Stars before too long, as classes continue to search for that little extra oomph and try to fight off this movement afoot towards more radical and athletic dinghys.

As amazing as it sounds the VOR boats have huge consessions to their usage included in the design. You wouldn't think that about a 70' boat that will reach speeds over 20 knots, but all you have to do is look at the ACC boats for your proof. The ACC boats are 80' of nothing but a search for that last .1 of a knot. I think that they are awesome.

Looking forward to the thermals finally breaking through in Valencia. There's going to be some great racing over the next two months.

Mickey Lake

Wild Wassa
04-24-2007, 02:51 AM
"Maybe seven is the lower limit for downwind racing."

RBG, as a racing sailor you will know that above 7 is considered shifty, below 8 is always fluky.

What is the most disrespectfull slight you can serve up to an adversary? ... Your win was just a fluke? ... sailing is, win the start win the race?

When the wind is fluky, in the box it isn't a fair contest. At >7, both have a fair chance at an even start.

Warren.

MarkC
04-24-2007, 08:16 AM
I just wonder why Michael Illbruck didn't get involved in this?

Two different sailing groups - and the influence of a powerful sponsor (united Internet).

Illbruck built a boat-hull last time and offered it up as a 'German Team'.
No-one rose to the occasion with money.

There is/was an orignal group of Germans only interested in the Cup - and had been trying for decades to get involved.

Illbruck either:

- didnt want to crowd the 'original' team,
- didnt get along with the original team,

But if I remember correctly the sponsors United Internet didnt want to share the sponsorship rights with the allready very prominent Illbruck building-materials brand.

United Internet sought 'exposure'. Then Deutche Telecom sponsored the South Africans to counter the internet access offered by United Internet.

bamamick
04-24-2007, 03:36 PM
and finished 56 seconds behind the Swedes. The surprise of the day was Shosho winning over Luna Rossa. And then Luna Rossa came back to go neck to neck with Oracle before losing by 6 seconds!

ETNZ cruised today and look like they've got whatever slows they had earlier worked out. I saw wind readings in the mid-teens with puffs over 20, so it was a fun day on the water after being postponed for lack of wind earlier. Maybe the pattern will break through now and they can get on with it.

Mickey Lake

Wild Wassa
04-24-2007, 04:38 PM
It was a good race between Luna Rossa and Oracle.

1200m from home when Luna Rossa jibed, it didn't make sense, to me, I felt that their timing was out. They were travelling faster than Oracle. If they had have gone across Oracle's stern then and taken their wind, that would have shortened Oracle's lead by about 12-20 metres or more with Luna Rossa's faster boat speed. Oracle then would have had to jibe again to parallel them and 'if' Luna Rossa had continued towards the layline, their next jibe (heading home) would have had them being the priority boat. They could have pushed Oracle up then, if Oracle had stayed with them. They eventually made that decision closer to home but by that stage they had left it too late. The final leg showed how good Luna Rossa could end up being and possibly challenging the Emirates for the other top Challenger spot. Oracle has the wood over the others it appears, it is who takes the second spot, that could be the surprise.

The thing that is most noticeable is the big differences between the boats during the starts. There haven't been many close starts, from the races that I've seen. The Emirates' win against Desafio was a good effort after going back and dipping the line when they crossed early. It took a while to claw their way back against Desafio and they then went on to hammer them. A very good effort by ETNZ.

Warren.

rbgarr
04-24-2007, 08:52 PM
A "blow by blow" transcript: http://www.tackbytack.com/archives_results.asp?id=48

S/V Laura Ellen
04-24-2007, 11:00 PM
Wakeboarding AC Style at Valencia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnOYkrICSQE

bamamick
04-25-2007, 11:11 AM
Latin Rascals by a very respectable 24 seconds today and are tied up with the boys from EnZed right now. The New Zealanders defeated the South Africans this morning, bringing them down to earth a little bit after their fun day yesterday.

The Germans have really done pretty well so far, even though they only show one win. Basically they have been losing every start, which surprises me with Bank and Dellenbaugh on board, but I don't know the method behind the madness with match racing, having only done it a couple of times. Not my forte at all.

Mickey Lake

Wild Wassa
04-26-2007, 01:31 PM
Luna Rossa knows how to sprint and she knows how not to get distracted by covering other boats. Failing to sail her true course at the first mark against ETNZ, I thought it was very dodgy. She mustn't have been far off infringing ... but by not more than 50m at least, within 2 lenghts off the mark? The rounding pushed the limit.

They must have been thinking well we have nothing to lose ... at the worst it would only neutralize ETNZ's penalty.

It was a very interesting win, although I was surprised how long Luna Rossa spent on the unfavoured side of the course when beating on the port tack ... and got away with it. They sacrificed many a good advantage on the right side of the course, while on port, and gained each time they tacked back onto st'bd. I also like how they kept putting ETNZ back in the race, after having them on toast.

This race was the most interesting race to date and certainly showed the bountiful imagination of the Italians ... or was it of the Australians? ... but it was nothing like the imagination shown by ETNZ by popping the kite on the first beat ... well I'm guessing that was a world sailing first. I'd like to know what ETNZ were thinking when that happened. The wobbily approach to the first rounding could have disoriented someone in their crew ... it pays to keep your head out of the cockpit.

Warren.

Popeye
04-26-2007, 01:35 PM
ZZZzzzzzz

Wild Wassa
04-26-2007, 01:58 PM
Dupe post removed

Wild Wassa
04-26-2007, 02:00 PM
"... or having a personal stake in the outcome, ... etc ... none of which is offered in megayachting"

Bet on the yachting and then tell us you don't have a stake in it. You are old enough to place a bet? ... or is it past your bedtime?

Warren.

bamamick
04-26-2007, 07:00 PM
She is a top boat.

Personally, I like to follow the guys at the back of the fleet! The Germans lost today by about a minute. They seem to lose all of their races to the tougher teams by a minute, which isn't bad really. It just disturbs me that it seems that they are happy to sail around the course behind the better boats. Of course, I'm one to talk, aren't I?

Tomorrow is a big day for UITG. They go against Areva and +39. If they can win one of those (and I think that they WILL win against +39) then you'd have to call it progress. Their time in Valencia is winding down. They got RR2 to do and then they're through. It'll be interesting to see if this team continues on to the next go round (assuming it'll be held in Europa again, which I do).

I think that Dickson and Eric Doyle and the other guys on Oracle are mentally tough enough to get this done. I just don't think that they've got the boat.

Mickey Lake

MarkC
04-28-2007, 09:33 AM
The poor Germans.... cant get a trick right.

The spanish have beaten Oracle in flight 10.

bamamick
04-28-2007, 08:13 PM
She will be in the final four.

UITG blew it against +39 yesterday when they held the lead the entire race and let it get away on the final run. They went from 39 seconds ahead to 39 seconds behind on that last leg. And of course, Areva blasted them by over a minute. Areva is a team that has shown bursts of speed from time to time but rarely wins a race.

You know, it is so odd catagorizing these teams the way that we do. Luca Devoti (+39) is a several time Olympic competitor. Jesper Bank is one of the most decorated keelboat sailors in Europe. All of these guys are very, very good. Every last one of them.

Mickey Lake

S/V Laura Ellen
04-28-2007, 10:09 PM
Hey Mickey:

Can you explain to me about the redress issue with Areva's penalty turn.

How can they not have not crossed completely over to the course side of the finish line if they made their penalty turn around the finish pin?


At the hearing, Principal Race Officer Peter Reggio clearly stated that at no time was the entire Areva Challenge boat, FRA 93, on the course side of the finishing line, as it made its penalty turn around the finish pin, as required by the Racing Rules of Sailing.

MarkC
04-29-2007, 08:11 AM
How can they not have not crossed completely over to the course side of the finish line if they made their penalty turn around the finish pin?


They tried to snap-it-in-fast - like Victory Challenge did - but heeled-over so far that their Mast did not go over the line (the mast actually was right over - covering the bouy)!

Now that is good umpiring! - to see that.


- interesting observation from 2 days ago - with the big waves, Areva was pushing through the waves and Team United Internet Germany were hobbying over the waves and going much slower- Germans were faster down-wind though.


All of these guys are very, very good. Every last one of them.


Match-racing 24 tonns of boat and getting a bucket-load of crew to function as a team - all the while remaining cool during the pre-strart antics.

Wild Wassa
04-29-2007, 05:46 PM
Umpires being eagle eyed ... and not missing a thing?

I've spent time on the water with the International/ACC umpire John Whitfield. He was umpiring races here, as he does each Spring for the CYC's Spring Cup. He lives here in Canberra and I was lucky to be able to spend time on the chase boat with him while he was refereeing six races. I was able to pick his brains during the races about the fine art of pushing the limit ... but not until after the start of each race. It was ultimate quiet until after the start of each race. This coming Spring Cup I'm hoping to do the same.

On the water umpires see everything. They take the helm of the chase boat and drive the boat during the race and put the boat in the handiest positions (all done at great speed) to enable them to see all. When they drive the boat during the races they get so close to the racing boats at times, just within feet, that the natural reaction for some sailors is to shout at them ... "Keep clear." Then the umpire will shout something appropriate back at an offending Skipper or crew.

Watching a mast going virtical, through the virtical and past the virtical and booms clipping marks ... we all know what that entails but for the finer points and issuing the little known interpretations of the rules, umpires are well tuned to seeing and doing their worst.

When a boat is either rounding or when taking penalties there are more eyes on the race boat doing it than there are compound eyes on a fly ... but the only pairs that ultimately count belong to the umpires.

I hope the quality of the racing improves during the next round. China and Germany are so out of their depth, I've stopped watching races that they are in ... they really have very predictable non-tactics and no imagination to race well. On one of the boats I'm imagining that yesterdays dialogue went like this.

"Skipper we are taking a huge knock" ... "Let's just wait to see how big it is."

"We are in for another lee bowing Skipper, our 10th in a row" ... "Let's just wait and see if they change their minds."

"Skipper the pressure is on the other side of the course" ... "Let's just wait and see if it arrives here before we do anything rash."

"Skipper that was a very uninspiring race that we did" ... "Uninspiring for who?" ... "For our final supporter Skipper, unless he's jumped camp already."

Can you guess which boats and races that was aimed at? ... well, it wasn't during one of the postponed races yesterday. The postponed races were exciting.

I'm sure Alinghi can't wait to meet the final pretender ... because there aren't contenders racing.

Warren.

rbgarr
04-29-2007, 09:09 PM
Interesting human interest link about the pre 1900 America's Cup.
http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/07/0429/

JimD
04-30-2007, 03:57 AM
Sailing: Scramble to replace +39 mast after racing collision with German rivals

By Stuart Alexander in Valencia

Published: 05 April 2007



Nightmare became reality for Iain Percy and the crew of +39 yesterday when, in the second of yesterday's fleet races for the America's Cup contenders, their newly installed, €500,000 (£253,000) carbon fibre mast broke in three pieces and crashed to the deck.
But, while it was something everyone had feared because of major last-minute problems and frantic round-the-clock work to prepare the boat, it was a collision with the German team boat that did the damage. No one was seriously injured, though Percy was hit by the topmast, bruising his back.
Both were approaching the first, windward, turning mark in a breeze that had stiffened to between 18 and 20 knots. As Germany's Danish skipper, Jesper Bank, like Percy an Olympic gold medallist, swerved, his mast came upright but he was so close that he hit +39, which was at full speed and heeled over, ripping one of his own mast fittings off.
Technically, the Italians were preparing a protest against the Germans and, in the event of it being upheld, will claim against German insurance.
Practically, Percy, whose team includes double silver medallist Ian Walker, who narrowly missed being speared by a falling piece of rod, will try to install an old mast. "The Germans apologised and offered as much help as possible, but I think it is unlikely we can sail [today's] races," he said.
The South African team was also in strife, a blown headsail ripping a fitting off the mast, which punched a hole in the mainsail. But they managed to finish.
Earlier Team New Zealand's Adam Beashel had been rushed to hospital with a badly injured finger.
A testing day saw two victories for the Swiss defender, Ernesto Bertarelli's Alinghi. Duringthe second, the wind died just before the finish, leaving a tightly bunched fleet with sails hanging like forlorn washing on a line.



Broke into three pieces. A mere $167,000 a piece.

S/V Laura Ellen
04-30-2007, 04:35 AM
Broke into three pieces. A mere $167,000 a piece.

In this case the sum of its parts is not worth more than the whole.

Wild Wassa
05-01-2007, 05:04 PM
The Jury for the 32nd America’s Cup has fined the Italian Mascalzone Latino 10'000 Euros for a technical violation of the measurement rule for the America’s Cup Class.

Those notorious Latin Rascals used a different paint from that called for in the America’s Cup Class Rule ... no, no, no, ... it wasn't varnish, varnish lovers.

The team will begin repainting its boat immediately ... and so they should.

Does anyone know if someone with an Italian accent rang George Kirby in the last two days?

Warren.

bamamick
05-01-2007, 05:16 PM
it was TOO blowy. But I don't blame them. It was pretty blowy.

Mickey Lake

Wild Wassa
05-01-2007, 05:43 PM
Mickey, on the Official America's Cup site, they have a section called quotes of the day, perhaps you have seen the postings?

I only read few quotes this morning ... most sailors I gather, were a touch disappointed not to race. The wind was averaging 30+kts for several minutes at a time ... a little above entry level?

In the prerace, "Well OK boys, it's time to gybe." "No! no! Skipper the boat is moving far too slowly, the pressure will total the boat." "Have no fear young lad, we're going to do a granny gybe." WACK!!

Warren.

MarkC
05-02-2007, 01:53 AM
The Jury for the 32nd America’s Cup has fined the Italian Mascalzone Latino 10'000 Euros for a technical violation of the measurement rule for the America’s Cup Class.

Those notorious Latin Rascals used a different paint from that called for in the America’s Cup Class Rule ... no, no, no, ... it wasn't varnish, varnish lovers.

The team will begin repainting its boat immediately ... and so they should.


They notified the measurement committee in writing before the series what paint they were using...

In writing.

Seems a bit harsh that they are charged.

What sort of excuse is 'Yes we have your correspondence on file, we must have overlooked your letter (cough, cough, splutter) - but we still have to charge you'. The committee should demand the boat re-painted but to fine?

S/V Laura Ellen
05-02-2007, 02:53 AM
it was TOO blowy. But I don't blame them. It was pretty blowy.

Mickey Lake

The inability of these fragile race yachts to sail in heavy weather was the impetus for the formation of the International Fisherman Cup Races between the Canadian and American fishing schooners.

Popeye
05-02-2007, 06:48 AM
http://www.canada-meetings.co.uk/images/c2c/newfoundland1-003.jpg

Wild Wassa
05-02-2007, 11:21 AM
Give a boat a slippery new skin and put a Kiwi on the helm ... and Mascalzone were hot. Desafio's defeat puts pressure on them for the 4th position. Desafio didn't know what hit them in today's first heat. A good race for once.

Shosholoza committed suicide against Oracle during the third leg in the first heats today. They had Oracle well covered and 'on toast' and it looked like they were about to hand Oracle their third loss in Oracle's last 4 races ... and they tacked away and broke the cover. Shosholoza headed to the right of the course while Oracle kept left and the Africans turned a 40 metre advantage into a 70 metre deficit within the next 300 metres.

Oracle has the most advanced weather team, of all the challenging teams. Oracle's weather forcasting has proven to be correct all through this tornament and Shosholoza tacked left ... it was an believable mistake to have made at any level.

The second heats have started ... bye.

Warren.

MarkC
05-02-2007, 03:23 PM
and Shosholoza tacked left ... it was an believable mistake to have made at any level.


They didnt have any choice! They were blocked by the Chinese team whom they were overtaking (lapping?) - they came around the mark had dirty air and had to keep away from China.

S/V Laura Ellen
05-02-2007, 04:52 PM
I'm really am missing TV coverage of the AC races this year. It really stinks.

bamamick
05-02-2007, 06:17 PM
in this last week.

I worked 84 hours last week, sailed the Finn for one day, and have already worked about 40 this week. ACC action has not been in the forefront of my mind, sad to say. I did just read that the Rascals are coming on strong now and may steal Desafio's spot in the final four.

Looks like Oracle, ETNZ, Luna, and either the Rascals or Desafio. The Chinese, Germans, and the Itlaians on +39 have already been eliminated and they are sailing for fun from now on out.

Mickey Lake

John B
05-02-2007, 10:03 PM
84 hours Mickey!. , you need to back off a bit pal.

Its run at midnight through to 2am something here and I can tell you that doesn't work too well for me.
Highlights at 7 am are about all I see but I suppose that when it gets further along I'll be staggering around with the matchstick eyes.

Wild Wassa
05-03-2007, 05:13 AM
They didnt have any choice! They were blocked by the Chinese team whom they were overtaking (lapping?) - they came around the mark had dirty air and had to keep away from China.

Cheers Mark. I went back and looked at the replays. Being on the Alcatel Lucent program when I overlayed the two races there was the ACC wantabees, 'Team Franco-Sino', causing maximum drama.

The Franco-Sino team didn't only lose their race they lost Shosholoza their race as well.

Seb Destremeau, Tactician, from Franco-Sino, on the problems with the mast track before the race, "The shore team sent us the material and the guys fought like mad to try and repair it as quickly as possible. They spent an hour and a half on the mast. We are happy we managed to race even if we were late. The most important thing is that we prove our competitiveness; that we are there”.

Some big deal that was, from the Franco-Sino jerks, they are not the slightest bit competitive and they shouldn't have even been on the course with a badly prepared boat. It was daylight between them and Victory. They were totally uncompetitive in their race and cost Shosholoza their race. Shosholoza are fighting for the coverted 4th spot, the Franco-Sino ACC wantabees aren't even fighting to hold onto last place. Not a good look by a very ordinary bunch of sailors.

Warren.

bamamick
05-04-2007, 08:52 AM
Our coverage up here is spotty. No, spotty would be a compliment for what we have.

Anyway, good racing this morning. Oracle over Luna by 19 seconds (after trailing the first lap) and it looks like ETNZ will get by Desafio pretty easily. The Spaniards have to be the most inconsistant bunch out there. Shoz and the Swedes also log wins in the early flight.

Mickey Lake

Stiletto
05-04-2007, 06:27 PM
I was awake at an ungodly hour here, so watched it. There was some great camera work zooming in from the helicopter and finding the small tear in ETNZ's spinnaker.
A team NZ spokesman said they have been into covering their opponent rather than going for large win margins.
Makes sense when one previous loss was caused by separation from the opponent.

The South Africans seem to be the up and comers, they have progressed well, and will probably be serious contenders in future events.

I am looking forward to the ETNZ match against Oracle. Pity it will be during the working week, so I wont watch it live.

bamamick
05-04-2007, 08:09 PM
The team that probably gets overlooked is the Swedes. They are better than Shosho but don't get any kudos for it. The South Africans have done themselves proud in their first attempt, but in all honesty, it sort of reminds me of Japan a few Cups back. Just how far can they go when Larry Ellison is willing to spend 300 million dollars on this thing?

Honestly? I believe that the rest of the world has caught up to the New Zealanders somewhat, sort of like the way the world has caught up with the Americans in basketball. The New Zealanders used to exhibit a sort of professionalism about yacht racing that was unusual in it's day, but has become pretty commonplace even at the national level in one designs. They pioneered that attitude, imo, but others have taken note, and in a world where money talks, it looks like New Zealand is just one of the gang now.

Of course, if they beat the American New Zealanders on Oracle I will happily come back and eat my words. :)

Mickey Lake

Stiletto
05-04-2007, 10:22 PM
Lets hope you have to!:D


I agree that the the other teams display a level of professionalism that wasnt always there in the past.


I've heard a few commentators here speculate that if ETNZ doesnt win they will have a hard time financing another attempt. There just arent enough filthy rich Kiwis.

bamamick
05-04-2007, 11:26 PM
That the Emirates will sponsor their own team and when they win it (and they will) they will bring it to Dubai! Why? Who the heck knows? We are going through a debate in the Dragon class over whether or not we should participate in a major event in Dubai offering a considerable cash prize. My comment? Why the heck would they want us to do that? What's in it for them? Are we no more than horses or dogs so that these billionaires can place wagers on their favorite colors? I just don't understand the motivation.

Mickey Lake

John B
05-07-2007, 02:50 PM
Gee, thats a nasty new wrinkle... drop your kite by casting off the halyard and sheet and dumping the whole thing in the tide. Dont take it with you because its faster to throw it over for your tender to pick up, plus it has the added advantage of making an obstacle for the trailing boat.:(

friggin mockery.

rbgarr
05-07-2007, 04:51 PM
Dubai. It reminds me of the uber-billionaire in that movie with Jody Foster who time-travelled. It's a world unto itself: http://tinyurl.com/24ozqz

John B
05-07-2007, 06:12 PM
No thoughts on the precedent of discarding sails during the race? whats next .....chuck the genoas over for the last downwind, perhaps a crewman or two for good measure?

crap seamanship, bad precedent, poor form, cheating?

waters'l
05-07-2007, 06:20 PM
If they want to go faster, they need to throw their cannon off and pump their water over the side. That is what they did in the old days. I think that anything other than that should be cheating.

John B
05-07-2007, 06:24 PM
maybe a few counter measures as well. spiked buoys ,magnesium flares ,journalists...

bamamick
05-07-2007, 06:30 PM
over at SA, since the Swedes apparently did it today against Desafio (in a crucial Swedish victory - no pun intended).

I am not even sure how they came up with this other than the fact that you could always cut loose sails if they were a problem. We just never had the thought that you would pay someone to follow you around picking up sails while you were racing, even if that boat is supposed to be out there picking up the lads when they go plunking off the sides.

How about +39's shocking win over the South Africans? The Latin Rascals disappearance? And has the cream risen to the top just at the right time? Has ETNZ gotten their act together here at the end?

I guess the important question for those of us who watch is this: how good is Alinghi? imo, very good. Too good to lose? That's the big question and I believe the one that will finally polarize the sailing community into watching and cheering during these next many weeks. It looks like either Oracle or ETNZ vs. Alinghi, just as the oddsmakers had said it would be so long ago. I am hoping for a 5-4 finale, with any of those three teams stepping up as worthy champions.

Mickey Lake

John R - Kitenui
05-07-2007, 10:18 PM
The Spanish were flying a protest flag. Any body know the result?
Totally bad form.Worth disqualification methinks.

John R - Kitenui
05-08-2007, 12:18 AM
If this can be allowed what is to stop you from dropping any old rubbish in the path of the following yacht.

Wild Wassa
05-08-2007, 03:30 AM
Is it just dawning on some WBF Members that these guys are playing for keeps?

A late drop of the spinnaker, and casting it adrift has happened a few times before yesterday's Flight ... and yet no complaints before now.

Casting off the spinnaker happened a few times during the LVC Acts.

What rule did the Swedes break? ... I see no infringment to the rules of match racing.

There certainly isn't enough information to condem the Swedish crew ... and to call them cheats. At no stage during yesterday's Flight was Desafio inconvenienced nor did they have to change course because of the spinnaker in the water.

Warren.

The Bigfella
05-08-2007, 04:43 AM
Is it just dawning on some WBF Members that these guys are playing for keeps?

A late drop of the spinnaker, and casting it adrift has happened a few times before yesterday's Flight ... and yet no complaints before now.

Casting off the spinnaker happened a few times during the LVC Acts.

What rule did the Swedes break? ... I see no infringment to the rules of match racing.

There certainly isn't enough information to condem the Swedish crew ... and to call them cheats. At no stage during yesterday's Flight was Desafio inconvenienced nor did they have to change course because of the spinnaker in the water.

Warren.


I guess the issue that appears to be contentious here is one of sportsmanship, rather than "playing for keeps"

bamamick
05-08-2007, 06:34 AM
a protest. The Swedes did not break a rule, therefore no protest. I guess the whole point of the argument was the intent, and since I didn't see it I can't comment on it.

Forecast for 15 knots today, and the Oracle/Desafio rematch is a highlight match, along with Victory fighting for their lives with the guys from ETNZ. Luna Rossa and the Rascals go at it as well. I believe that my German team is up against Areva, another one of those teams that seems to have a boat-speed switch. Sometimes they are really fast, yet they don't win that much. I am rooting for the guys in the white boat to win at least one of these last two.

Mickey Lake

Wild Wassa
05-08-2007, 03:20 PM
Now it is sorted. BMW, Emirates, Prada and Desafio are into the semis but there is still one twist ... the last Flight today.

BMW race the Emirates today. The Emirates need to smarten up their starts, they can't keep relying on their boat speed, unless it is again sailed in a boring, 9-12 knots. I can't recall a single gust this entire series. Fast boats win in 9-12 ... and good sailors on slower boats have nothing to work with. This boring regularity has been a real feature of the VLC so far.

The winner of the BMW/Emirates race will choose their opponent in the semis, who will get to choose Desafio? Sportsbet hasn't set the odds yet. The market will be interesting if looking for a bit of value ... there is no value if it is again 9-12 knots.

Warren.

Stiletto
05-08-2007, 05:24 PM
Yep I will be a bit bleary eyed tomorrow as I definitely want to watch ETNZ vs Oracle tonight.

I agree that ETNZ need to smarten up their starts, its a bit of a worry at this end of the competition.

Russ Manheimer
05-09-2007, 07:58 AM
ETNZ just rounded the first mark with a 54 second lead. Ouch.

Popeye
05-09-2007, 08:01 AM
ouch

rbgarr
05-09-2007, 08:33 AM
Posted on Scuttlebuttsailing.com Forum

From John Longley: I was listening to the Americas Cup Radio on the net
Monday night and was amazed to hear the dramatic description of the "Chase
Boat Take Down" performed by the Swedes. Evidently the boys in Adventureland
were a bit slow in getting the jib up and the take down line rigged so they
literally let everything go - halyard, sheets, spinnaker, the lot - all into
the heaving main. The Spanish red flagged them for leaving half their sail
plan as a big fishing net in their way. So far I have not heard the outcome
of the protest, assuming they went ahead with it, but my question is when
did this become acceptable behaviour. As a forward hand/ grinder on 5
America’s Cups Challengers/ Defenders, albeit way back when, it was news to
me that this was allowed. By the way the guys on the AC Radio are doing a
great job.

Curmudgeon’s Comment: While the Spanish flagged the incident on the course,
they never filed the protest. Tom Ehman noted on the BOR blog that the
understanding from their team’s “rules guru Richard Slater (AUS) is that
this (douse) breaks no rules -- unless it is deemed to have been done
intentionally to impede the other yacht.” Photos and video revealed that the
Spanish’s progress was not arguably impeded, which is likely why they did
not pursue the case. As for when this douse became acceptable behavior, we
asked Paul Cayard, who said it was in 1992.

bamamick
05-09-2007, 11:04 AM
We will see pretty soon whether it means anything or not.

I am most dissapointed for my German team. A 30 second loss to +39 polished off a tough couple of RR's in which they could only beat the Franco-Chinese. +39 led at every mark. I hope the guys are not too down on themsleves or the program. I have a feeling that if it's in Europe or the west coast of the US next time that they'll be back, but I don't know about what will happen if it's in New Zealand. Personally I hope they come back and do it again. This time around was a learning experience and if it's anything like the guys that I work with they are already evaluating and planning for the next challenge.

Well, now we are getting down to business. The final four. I think that the uncertainty of the way things stand right now makes it pretty interesting. EnZed swept through the second round robin and obviously didn't let the criticism of the first round robin effect them. Oracle looked rock solid until today. The Italians and Spanish show flashes, but flashes won't be enough now.

We are just getting to the good part :).

Mickey Lake

rbgarr
05-09-2007, 11:19 AM
Also from scuttlebutt:

HOW THE FOURTH SLOT WAS WON
The Desafío Español 2007 have earned the fourth slot of the semi-finals, and
a look back at the race results from RR1 and RR2 reveal how small the
differences were between the ousted Victory Challenge and the Spanish. What
it came down to was 3 things: 1) the 1 extra point the Spanish had over the
Swedes as a result of their performance in the Acts that preceded the Louis
Vuitton Series (Spanish had 3 pts to Sweden’s 2 pts); 2) Desafío Español
2007’s win over BMW Oracle Racing, which was the only victory by either team
over the leading 3 challengers; and 3) the upheld protest the Spanish filed
against the Mascalzone Latino-Capitalia, which allowed them to re-sail and
win a race they had earlier lost. The Spanish beat the Swedes in RR1, but
the result was reversed in RR2. As Victory helm Magnus Holmberg said, ”We
have become stronger and stronger, but it was not enough.”

Russ Manheimer
05-09-2007, 12:37 PM
The pairings for the Semi- Finals have ben set. It's a best of nine series with ETNZ against Desafio (no suprise there) and Oracle vs. Luna Rossa.

Mick,

Why do you think Oracle went left today and let the seperation get so large? Do you think they thought left had greater pressure? It was depressing to watch as the seperation kept getting bigger and the ETNZ lead larger and larger. What were they thinking?

Russ

Wild Wassa
05-09-2007, 01:18 PM
Oracle have the most advanced weather forcasting team of all of the pretenders. They certainly got it wrong today ... unless a few of the Chinese team snuck onto Oracle and took over. This seems to be the most plausible excuse.

Having watched Oracle drop their bundle today, in such an extreme way ... has made for a very interesting semi series. Good to see.

Go Prada.

Warren.

S/V Laura Ellen
05-09-2007, 01:47 PM
What happened to Oracle on the first leg, they weren't even in the race?

Were they just trying to take it easy on the boat and crew or are they that slow in the higher wind conditions?

bamamick
05-09-2007, 02:12 PM
and I didn't see it, either Oracle had a weather reading that left was the way to go, OR they didn't give a damn. The people who saw the presser said that Dickson was very calm and collected in addressing the media, then again that may just be Oracle supporters seeing what they want to see.

Who the heck knows? Who the heck knows if we know what these guys have got? From the first week it was apparent that ETNZ, Luna Rossa, and Oracle were in. For anyone else to have made top-three would have been a major upset.

I look for Oracle and ETNZ to cruise to the semis. Torben Grael is one of the greatest sailors in the world, but you just have to believe that Oracle with all of their professionalism is going to get it done. Same with Barker and his boys. The final three (if you include Alinghi) may be as strong as any syndicates there have ever been contending for this thing.

Mickey Lake

Wild Wassa
05-09-2007, 03:27 PM
"Who the heck knows ...?"

I'll have a stab at it.

When the race started the right side of the line was slightly favoured on the angles but the left side of the course had half a knot stronger wind. Both boats started on starb'd in the centre of the line with Oracle closest to the pin. The wind over the line was 10.2 knots with about 11 at the pin. There was only 1 second difference at the start between the boats.

At the 1 minute mark holding 14 metres advantage, Emirates tacked onto port. The wind had been slowly shifting from 5 minutes before the start. At the 10 minute mark of the race the wind had swung through 35-40 degrees shortening the distance to the the first mark for the Emirates. Oracle being so far out on the left of the course, was then crucified. Oracle's weather team got it very wrong today.

The pressure also had been changing to Emirates favour and she basically sailed the first leg in about 1/2 knot faster wind for the rest of the leg, after she first tacked. When the Emirates tacked again, she tacked taking a small lift and that shut the gate. It was follow the leader after that.

The wind wasn't big on the course today. 9.2-11.5 knots appeared to be the range during the race. About 12.5 was the highest reading that I saw on the wind readouts ... and that appeared to be one gust.

Warren.

S/V Laura Ellen
05-09-2007, 03:43 PM
Thanks Warren. The coverage I can get is terrible, I can tell who won but little else.

Wild Wassa
05-09-2007, 04:39 PM
Allan you are welcome.

I have the same program as Russ M, purchased on his recommendation. The Alcatel-Lucent ACC access. It has some amazing features. 20 wind readouts at any one time around the course. Trajectory history to spot the lifts and knocks, unlimited replays from any angle. All the speeds and distances in real time. They don't have a commentary worth squat with the A-L program unlike the old Kiwi VSACC program.

The TV reports here in Oz are totally useless for the LVC except for BBC World's ACC Updates, that's why I purchased the Alcatel-Lucent access otherwise I'd see little here until the actual Americas Cup. ESPN has in the past shown the AC but not the LVC. I hope ESPN has the rights to the AC again.

One other feature of the Alcatel-Lucent's access, is a complete history of the LVC lead up Acts over this past year. It appears to me that the Challengers had better start racing for the Americas Cup now ... because Alinghi only has to turn up to receive their Cup after looking at the history of the lead up races. Alinghi could even miss the first three races and still win. Alinghi's odds on Sportsbet will be almost unbackble ... almost.

Areva and Mascalzone Latino have been through LVC campaigns before now. Their teams are the real disappointments of this series. They should employ more Kiwis ... and they should do it now.

Warren.

Stiletto
05-09-2007, 05:06 PM
Good analysis Warren.
The scuttlebutt here after the race was that ETNZ got the word to go right at the very last minute.

The thing that pleased me was that ETNZ kept increasing her lead on every leg. The wind shifts explained the results of the first beat, but what explained the increasing lead?

Did Dickson see it as a lost cause and cruise the rest of the way, or is ETNZ faster? I dunno.

John E Hardiman
05-09-2007, 05:09 PM
It appears to me that the Challengers had better start racing now for the Americas Cup ... because Alinghi only has to turn up to recieve their Cup after looking at the history of the leadup races.

Alinghi odds on Sportsbet will be almost unbackable ... almost.

Warren.

I'll be bold and put my money on BMW Oracle. First rule of the AC....circa 1851...never let them see your true speed. Come'on....loose to the Chinese?...and come up a single point below ETNZ? Who would have thought? :rolleyes:

You know as well as I, 2nd place controls the race except in a walkaway...which this isn't.

bamamick
05-09-2007, 05:34 PM
headstay blew out in 13 knots of breeze. They lost today because ETNZ went the right way and they didn't stick.

Whenever I am racing if I am pretty sure the other guys are going the right way I clear my air and I go with them. My intent being to minimize losses. From what I am hearing Dickson knew pretty early on that they had chosen wrong and after that just sailed around the course. Maybe they didn't throw the race, but they sure didn't try to minimize losses so that they could attack downwind. Who knows what the truth is, but one truth is that in the two round robins (what the heck does that mean, anyway? round robins?) the score is 1-1 for each of the heavyweights.

Mickey Lake

John E Hardiman
05-09-2007, 05:42 PM
headstay blew out in 13 knots of breeze.
Mickey Lake


Headstays on a boat racing for the AC do not "blowout" in 13 knots.

Edit: Especially after what happened to get Alinghi the cup

bamamick
05-09-2007, 05:58 PM
the race bald-headed. I am not sure what you call it. Not the headstay, the thing that you can put up two sails together? Supposedly the luff pulled out of the track. With ACC sails I can believe it considering the fact that they are cut for such tight wind ranges (and I have done it on a Finn!).

Mickey Lake

Stiletto
05-09-2007, 05:59 PM
what the heck does that mean, anyway? round robins?)


A tournament where each competitor plays against every other competitor.

bamamick
05-09-2007, 06:00 PM
they talking about? The bird? What's a robin other than a bird?

So many questions......

Mickey Lake

Wild Wassa
05-09-2007, 06:21 PM
Oracle's forfoil delaminated in the race against the Franco-Sino team.

To call them Chinese is unfair ... it was the French Afterguard on the boat who didn't perform.

bamamick
05-09-2007, 07:34 PM
I remembered that we used to call them headfoils. Damn, it's been a long time since I used to grind on that 60 IOR boat. Haven't been on a boat with one of those things since.

We call them 'Chinese' because that's what the table says. You are right of course. Last time I looked there were maybe three Chinese on the sailing team. Sort of like the fact that there are three Americans on the Oracle sailing team, eh? :)

The tactician on ETNZ is an American. The driver on Oracle is a New Zealander. We believe the driver of Alinghi will be an American, with an all-New Zealand afterguard. Maybe in some ways this is the best of all worlds? Maybe this is what the future needs to look like, eh? Maybe we forget too often that this is a challenge among YACHT CLUBS, not bloody countries?

To be quite honest with you, now that my Duetschlanders are out of it I really do not care who wins. I just want there to be good, tight racing.

Mickey Lake

Russ Manheimer
05-09-2007, 07:58 PM
Warren,

Glad you're enjoying the A-L product. I'm on the East Coast, six hours behind Valencia, so I can sneak a peek at the office first thing.

John has a good point, but passing up the opportunity to sail against Desafio in the Semis must have hurt. Luna Ross is the stronger boat, no?

It all comes down to a wrong guess on pressure and direction. Weathers a bitch.

Russ

Russ Manheimer
05-14-2007, 08:20 AM
Semi-Final racing has started. Oracle and LR in a tacking duel on the first leg. Spithill likes the left. ETNZ and Desafio splitting. Great starts for both pairs.

Anyone watching?

Russ

S/V Laura Ellen
05-14-2007, 08:33 AM
Luna Rossa is leading Oracle on the first leg, Oracle gaining fast.

Seems to be he only race today.

Russ Manheimer
05-14-2007, 08:38 AM
Oracle and LR even.

S/V Laura Ellen
05-14-2007, 08:52 AM
Not any more.
LR caught a wind shift and pulled away.

S/V Laura Ellen
05-14-2007, 09:10 AM
LR leading by 1:21 at third mark.
LR beats Oracle by 2:19

Wild Wassa
05-14-2007, 10:00 AM
It was Prada gaining the overlap at the second mark, then it was shut the gate. Oracle's (swollen) head got stuck in a gate today ... well and truly.

Oracle deserved to lose today, because of their bad sporstmanship. It was dirty play, which backfired on Oracle badly that cost them the match. They failed to sail their true course and Prada made them pay dearly. If Oracle had continued sailing to the second mark, rather than the attempt they pulled, by trying to push Prada off the wind and force Prada to round up, Oracle would have had that match. What Oracle did is the ordinary play that I expect to see on VKS multiplayer ... when racing virtual sailors. By meer fact that Oracle hunted Prada shows that Oracle didn't have faith in their ability today or their boat's ability.

Sailing through gates is very interesting if you haven't done it. I dislike gates when racing. Making the choice of rounding isn't always done because it is the shortest line to the closest gate but today it should have been for Oracle. I don't ever see boats winning because of the gate they pick ... only boats losing races because of the wrong selection of gate rounding.

Prada might not be the fastest boat, but they sure are smart sailors on Prada, who aren't intimidated by bad sportsmanship.

Warren.

Wild Wassa
05-14-2007, 04:42 PM
The ACC Official site's interpretation of what happened, by Cameron Dunn.

"The main area to this race in my view was the approach to the leeward gate at the end of leg 2. BMW ORACLE Racing had made a huge gain down leg 2, but Luna Rossa Challenge were defending the left side of the course. Luna Rossa wanted to round the left gate mark looking upwind so they could get to the left up leg 3, after spotting more wind in that direction. They gybed into a windward position close to BMW Oracle which allowed BMW Oracle to luff Luna Rossa and try and force them out to the left and subsequently lead them back to the gate.

Luna Rossa did a nice job in breaking the overlap just in time, which then forced BMW Oracle, in a Rule 17.1 situation, to gybe back to the gate (sail their proper course). Luna Rossa gybed immediately with BMW Oracle and just held onto a small inside overlap at the 3 length zone for the left gate mark. This allowed Luna Rossa to round what they thought was the favoured mark and forced BMW Oracle to go to the right gate mark. From then on there was a big split and as Torben Grael had predicted, the left side of the course had more wind which allowed Luna Rossa to extend to a massive lead at Mark 3 and the finish.

If Luna Rossa hadn’t been able to break that crucial overlap for a further 10 seconds or so, I think the race could have been a very different story."

bamamick
05-15-2007, 02:48 AM
attack. The one big difference between these boats and the 12's is that the afterguards are frequently taking fliers and shooting corners and the other team is letting them go. I don't ever remember teams splitting tacks so often in the 'old days'. Could it be that these guys have more faith in their weather forecasts than they do in their own ability to sail their boats?

To lose to ETNZ the way that they did and give away the #1 seeding was one thing, but to let Luna Rossa get away from them is sort of perplexing.

As I have said all along, I rooted for UITG in this thing and now that they are spectators I don't care who wins. I 'sort of' wanted to see a BMWO-ETNZ finale because of the high drama, but it doesn't matter really. I just know that I won a Star race earlier this year because I threw about 10 good tacks at the boat right behind me on the last short weather leg and put him away on boat handling. This is the kind of thing I am used to in the America's Cup, not corner shooting and throwing dice.

Mickey Lake

rbgarr
05-15-2007, 08:21 AM
[quote=Wild Wassa;1572801]Luna Rossa wanted to round the left gate mark looking upwind so they could get to the left up leg 3, after spotting more wind in that direction. They gybed into a windward position close to BMW Oracle which allowed BMW Oracle to luff Luna Rossa and try and force them out to the left and subsequently lead them back to the gate.

Luna Rossa did a nice job in breaking the overlap just in time, which then forced BMW Oracle, in a Rule 17.1 situation, to gybe back to the gate (sail their proper course). Luna Rossa gybed immediately with BMW Oracle and just held onto a small inside overlap at the 3 length zone for the left gate mark. This allowed Luna Rossa to round what they thought was the favoured mark and forced BMW Oracle to go to the right gate mark.[quote]

I wasn't aware that the leeward mark is a gate now. Can the boats round the same mark in the gate or are there special rules?

Russ Manheimer
05-15-2007, 10:25 AM
All tied up. Oracle came from behind on the last leg to win. Serious downwind speed.....Spain lost to ETNZ again.

bamamick
05-15-2007, 10:54 AM
seem that this was one of the more exciting races. 16 seconds? Something like that. It is rather disturbing to those who root for BMWO that Spithill has owned the last couple of starts. It would be nice to see BMWO sail with the lead just to see what they would do with it.

ETNZ is walking all over the Spanish boat, but I suppose it's no real surprise. Desafio was a lot closer to Victory than she was to the top three in the RR's.

Mickey Lake

Wild Wassa
05-15-2007, 11:59 AM
rbgarr, a Skipper can choose which ever mark they want to round in the gate but must enter the gate and not exit through the gate, unless the RO sets special conditions.

It is only in Championship races that I would find gates. They are at all Championships I find. Something to do with testing the sailors ... apparently.

For example, lets call the buoys of a gate mark 1 and mark 0 and let's say that they are 30 metres apart. This example is from a race during last year's Flying Fifteen Nationals. The course was triangles with alternating sausages. The sausages were through gates.

The RO set a rule in the sailing instructions that the rounding of both marks 1 and 0 were to starb'd for the first lap. The second lap only the 1 mark was rounded to port. The third lap both 1 and 0 had to be rounded to starb'd and the final lap either marks 1 or 0 could be rounded through the gate then the lap to the finish, finishing to port of the pin ... The RO moved the finish boat to between 1 and 0 giving two pins, one on each side of the finish boat. Half of the fleet failed to read the sailing instructions and were disqualified for finishing on the wrong side of the finish boat or going through gates when the gates were closed.

Several sailors asked members of the race committee who were on the finish boat had they crossed the finishing line correctly because there were two pins. Someone on the finish boat said "yes" to a couple of the sailors. A competitor Rupert Leslie who finished third at the Nationals, protested the race lodging a protest against the race committee because of outside interference ... and won the protest. The race was resailed. Rupert Leslie went from 10th to 3rd.

We finished that particular race correctly, but we did a second finish by sailing over the finish line on the other side of the finish boat to be doubly sure. Gates can be tricky.

Warren.

bamamick
05-15-2007, 12:23 PM
clear their air a little easier on the beat and avoid jam-ups in big fleet events.

Since I am tactically a pretty simple guy, I will usually take the starboard gate since that puts me farther to weather right off the bat, unless there is an obvious shift to the right.

Mickey Lake

Wild Wassa
05-15-2007, 12:46 PM
Mickey, I'll be racing through gates this coming weekend on a Flying Fifteen in South Australia.Thanks for the good tip. Your fee is in the mail.

The final leg by Oracle was excellent today. The finish by Prada was a shocker, Spithill will be having nightmares tonight (Valencia time). Every time Prada gybed they got it wrong during the final leg. It was as though they were gybing to react to non existant shifts and missed the real shifts. Gybing out of an advantage isn't something that is often seen at this level. Their last gybe had them finishing with the wind right up their hammer ... real novice stuff. I've sailed with several skippers who over complicate things and drag defeat from the jaws of victory.

Approaching the third mark I can't figure out why Oracle started to raise their spinnaker and then they quickly hauled it in and why Prada got the death wobbles up at exaclly the same time, when the boats were close to each other. Something bizarre went on 150 metres from that 3rd mark ... (it was probably China getting in the way again).

Warren.

brian.cunningham
05-15-2007, 05:00 PM
This is interesting ...

-----Original Message-----
From: edatkeson@earthlink.net
To: IceBoating@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [IceBoating] America's Cup


Here's the America's Cup site: http://www.americascup.com/en/

Karol Jablonski is a DN class iceboat champion, but he's also
skippering a boat for Spain in the America's Cup races in Valencia.
Hard water, soft water, he has pretty good success.
best,
Ed A

Wild Wassa
05-15-2007, 05:39 PM
The Official ACC site's quote of the day by Michele Vivaldi the Navigator on Prada, on why Prada (Luna Rossa for youngsters not up on history) was passed by Oracle on the final leg.

"We lost our lead because we were a little slow in reacting .... it was a mistake that we paid for dearly."

A little slow in reacting? I thought that they were gybing to imaginary shifts. So they were only "a little slow," for a minute there I thought that there could have been a problem, after spending millions of dollars on research.

So slow that I wondered if Michele Vivaldi was on the boat and sending information to the Skipper by carrier pigeon.

Warren.

Stiletto
05-16-2007, 02:50 AM
They were very slow getting the spinnaker hoisted for the run home.

S/V Laura Ellen
05-16-2007, 10:56 AM
What happened today? I missed the action.

Luna Rossa and Desafio Espanol win round three.

Luna Rossa (Prada) over BMW Oracle 2 to 1 so far in the semis. This has got to have BMW Oracle scared.

Wild Wassa
05-16-2007, 11:50 AM
Desafio sailed what I think was the most efficient race sailed so far in the LVC. They went straight up and straight down the centre the course on each leg ... basically.

The Emirates had a penalty put on them in the prestart for failing to keep clear. This may have unsettled them for the duration of the race ... but probably not as much as Desafio unsettled them. At no stage of the race was Desafio wanting for good boat speed, and at no stage in the race were the Arabs from the Emirates really in it. The Arabs took their penalty at the death. This made the result look more impressive. The Emirates tried to fox Desafio into a tacking dual at one stage but doing from 130 metres in arrears, only had them tacking in Desafio's dirt and had them repeatedly gassed for their troubles. All which, only strengthened the term ... "they sailed like dense Arabs".

Prada (go Prada) were good today. Their covering of Oracle was to the second on every occasion except on the last leg ... something stern must have been said to the crew then and after yesterday's race debarcle of course. Oracle were made to look somewhat ordinary today. I can only imagine the sweat produced by the crew from the stress.

Oracle tried hard during the last leg and at one stage Prada failed to cover and I though, "here we go, they are at risk of losing the plot again" ... just like the average spagetti western. Prada then got back into concentration mode and finish right on the angles.

It really was a good day's racing and both race winners (today) were worthy of an AC Challenger. I don't know about those Arabs though ... it could be time to change the camel jockey. Desafio sailed like Champions (today).

I won't get to see the next 10 races as I'll be eating crows ... so good luck to who ever you are supporting.

Warren.

S/V Laura Ellen
05-16-2007, 12:03 PM
Warren: Thanks for the commentary!

John B
05-16-2007, 03:47 PM
Desafio sailed what I think was the most efficient race sailed so far in the LVC. They went straight up and straight down the centre the course on each leg ... basically.

The Emirates had a penalty put on them in the prestart for failing to keep clear. This may have unsettled them for the duration of the race ... but probably not as much as Desafio unsettled them. At no stage of the race was Desafio wanting for good boat speed, and at no stage in the race were the Arabs from the Emirates really in it. The Arabs took their penalty at the death. This made the result look more impressive. The Emirates tried to fox Desafio into a tacking dual at one stage but doing from 130 metres in arrears, only had them tacking in Desafio's dirt and had them repeatedly gassed for their troubles. All which, only strengthened the term ... "they sailed like dense Arabs".

Prada (go Prada) were good today. Their covering of Oracle was to the second on every occasion except on the last leg ... something stern must have been said to the crew then and after yesterday's race debarcle of course. Oracle were made to look somewhat ordinary today. I can only imagine the sweat produced by the crew from the stress.

Oracle tried hard during the last leg and at one stage Prada failed to cover and I though, "here we go, they are at risk of losing the plot again" ... just like the average spagetti western. Prada then got back into concentration mode and finish right on the angles.

It really was a good day's racing and both race winners (today) were worthy of an AC Challenger. I don't know about those Arabs though ... it could be time to change the camel jockey. Desafio sailed like Champions (today).

I won't get to see the next 10 races as I'll be eating crows ... so good luck to who ever you are supporting.

Warren.


Thats totally insulting on all sorts of grounds, including racial.
You're way out of order.

rbgarr
05-16-2007, 05:35 PM
Yes... inexplicably bizarre.

Stiletto
05-16-2007, 07:48 PM
Has he stopprd taking his meds?

S/V Laura Ellen
05-18-2007, 10:44 AM
Luna Rossa (Prada) take another win over BMW Oracle.
Is BMW Oracle getting nervous yet?

Any comments about the matches today? I missed the live coverage.

bamamick
05-18-2007, 12:17 PM
Torben Grael is proving to be pretty stout. I don't think that it's BMWO that needs to be nervous but ETNZ. A Luna Rossa/Alinghi final would be pretty cool, eh?

Mickey Lake

S/V Laura Ellen
05-18-2007, 12:22 PM
Torben Grael is proving to be pretty stout. I don't think that it's BMWO that needs to be nervous but ETNZ. A Luna Rossa/Alinghi final would be pretty cool, eh?

Mickey Lake

That certainly would encourage some local (to Valencia) fan participation.

Stiletto
05-18-2007, 09:07 PM
A Luna Rossa/Alinghi final would be pretty cool, eh?



No, I dont really think so!:eek:

S/V Laura Ellen
05-18-2007, 10:58 PM
BMWO had a problem with their flipper. The best I could tell it is a rigging/mast component (like a spreader).

What is a flipper?
How big of a disadvantage would it be to have a broken flipper?


There broken flipper is shown on the Day 4 video at the following web site.
http://www.americascupanywhere.com/internet_tv/

Stiletto
05-18-2007, 11:46 PM
The TVNZ explanation about a flipper was that it helps the headsail maintain its correct shape. I'm still not clear about it myself.

The Bigfella
05-19-2007, 03:40 AM
Oh dear - he's been relatively well behaved in the bilge (with one notable exception) lately. What is it with this guy?

johngsandusky
05-19-2007, 08:16 AM
Big Trouble. BMWOracle incurs 2 penalties at the start. I think Dickson should step down, he's lost every start in this series.

Russ Manheimer
05-19-2007, 08:17 AM
It's over. LR just gave a lesson in starting to Dickson and company. Larry could have done better. Two fouls including hard contact.

Great start by Desafio; could be interesting.

My Saturday morning is slowly slipping away. Here's a link to a Swedish dissertation (http://www.na.chalmers.se/~bathfiel/CYR/jinwoobaik.pdf) on the IAAC hull development.

S/V Laura Ellen
05-19-2007, 08:29 AM
Does BMWO have to do two 360 turns to clear the double penalty? What does the rules say about this?

It seems that one penalty had to be taken immediately so that still leaves on penalty to be taken.

johngsandusky
05-19-2007, 08:41 AM
Yes, it's two turns,they had to do one right away, but they're carrying the other, and trailing.

Stiletto
05-20-2007, 07:45 AM
It's over all right.Dickson has been sacked. Not just removed from the helm but banned from the premises.

Tom Lathrop
05-20-2007, 08:47 AM
Hey,

It's just that some of the Kiwi's are better than some of the other Kiwi's and their Kiwi's are better than our Kiwi's.

Stiletto
05-20-2007, 09:53 AM
I know what you mean Tom, an impressive win for the Spaniards against ETNZ nevertheless.
A good race to watch.

Oracle is out, ETNZ has to keep trying. They didnt have the speed advantage in today's stronger winds.

Rest day tomorrow, then back at it.

Nearly 3am here, I'm off to bed.

elf
05-20-2007, 10:12 AM
It's over all right.Dickson has been sacked. Not just removed from the helm but banned from the premises.

Wow. Heavy, man.

S/V Laura Ellen
05-20-2007, 10:24 AM
Now that we have witnessed the meltdown of BMW oracle, we have the match between Luna Rossa Challenge and Emirates Team New Zealand to look forward to.

ETNZ will be coming off their unexpectedly tough battle with Desafio Espanol with doubts about their chances (assuming they can actually win the semis), while Luna Rossa Challenge will have time to prepare for the finals.

ETNZ must have been watching the LR/BMWO matches closely and should be nervous about the upcoming races.

The reality of a America's Cup series between Luna Rossa Challenge and Alinghi are starting to look like a real possibility.

GO LR!

John B
05-20-2007, 03:50 PM
Thats the truth, I think TNZ needs some more gas in the tank to beat Luna Rossa, they're looking sharp.

A bit of talk here from Russell Coutts says that he thinks Alinghi has something special going on in the rig department.

rbgarr
05-20-2007, 04:53 PM
"The Spanish boat parked along the harbor front of Port America's Cup to celebrate with spectators, with sailors spraying champagne into the crowd while team cheerleaders waved pompoms after the victory."

Makes me want to sign up for the Versus network! :)

Stiletto
05-21-2007, 02:17 AM
I an starting to think that ETNZ will have to find something extra to do it.They looked to have good boatspeed in lighter winds, but not so good once windspeeds increased.

Luna Rossa's helmsman is working the starts very well indeed.
In contrast ETNZ's starts have looked fairly ordinary.

Wild Wassa
05-21-2007, 11:04 AM
So how are the Arabs going JB and Stilleto? ... I didn't say the Kiwis are Arabs JB and Stiletto. You are both being precious over reactionaries. I was referring to the Arab investors, boys. Your fragile egos are bigger than your boats. Aren't the Emirates an Arabian company or have I missed something? Learn some geography boys there is a big wide world out there. The Emirates employ the Kiwis ... before you get more geographically dislocated and embarrased and have it stuffed up ya, ... take a bearing boys. The Arabs employ the Kiwis, got it? I have.

Go Prada still counts here. Yeh Go Prada. Well done, nice wins so far.

If you learnt to pick winners boys, or your champion sailors remained loyal, maybe you Kiwis wouldn't be so irritable or so overly precious.

JB, I do actually admire your precious huge ego ... I try to cultivate mine to the same level. Obviously I'm not up to it, I promise to try harder, Maaa.a.t.tt.te, and mind your manners. Do your worst but remember your image is all important to you.

Warren.

Stiletto
05-21-2007, 07:17 PM
I saw the connection Warren, I was responding to the fact that your posts about the Farrier and painting etc. are informative and interesting, but you sometimes branch out into what , from here , looks like rabid behaviour.

Congratulations on your successful trip away.

John B
05-21-2007, 07:27 PM
You're just being deliberately insulting Wassa. No skin off my nose, you've demonstrated your belief system for all the world to see.

Wild Wassa
05-21-2007, 07:33 PM
"Rabid behaviour," get real, don't quote Ian Gatenby or I'll not respect you, that Limp Wrist is a flake and water-baby wantabee ... and he only works on his boat when his boat caddy lets him.

I don't give a flying'-f if anybody reads me here, I'm not looking for virtual friends or pretenders. Gatenby accolites don't worry me ... does it worry you two?

If you guys went to Sailing Anarchy they would just laugh at you ... at least I give you a hearing.

Don't patronise me.

Warren.

John B
05-21-2007, 08:02 PM
You crack me up Wassa.

ego , LOL.
Coming from the egomaniac extraordinaire thats really something.
Froth away old son , froth away.

The Bigfella
05-21-2007, 08:42 PM
Ahh - narcissism raises its head above the bilge. As C223 said in another post down below:


In time, the narcissist learns how to leverage his pathology, how to use it to his advantage, how to deploy it in order to maximize benefits and utilities - in other words, how to transform his curse into a blessing... they are very competitive. They are strongly compelled - where others are merely motivated. They are driven, relentless, tireless, and ruthless. They often make it to the top. But even when they do not - they strive and fight and learn and climb and create and think and devise and design and conspire. Faced with a challenge - they are likely to do better than non-narcissists.

Yet, we often find that narcissists abandon their efforts in mid-stream, give up, vanish, lose interest, devalue former pursuits, fail, or slump. Why is that?

Narcissists are prone to self-defeating and self-destructive behaviors.

http://http://samvak.tripod.com/journal48.html

John E Hardiman
05-21-2007, 10:05 PM
I'll be bold and put my money on BMW Oracle. First rule of the AC....circa 1851...never let them see your true speed. Come'on....loose to the Chinese?...and come up a single point below ETNZ? Who would have thought? :rolleyes:

You know as well as I, 2nd place controls the race except in a walkaway...which this isn't.

Looks like I'll have to put that bottle of A^3 Chandon back into the cellar. It looks like the afterguard lost thier understanding about how the starts work. And i was so looking forward to an "in the Bay" race.

Edit to add. Now I'll have to dig out my vintage '91 Il Moro t-shirt

Figment
05-21-2007, 10:11 PM
If you guys went to Sailing Anarchy they would just laugh at you ... at least I give you a hearing.


Has the world really come to this? Is SA really the benchmark now?
Time to burn the modem.

Wild Wassa
05-21-2007, 10:18 PM
"Time to burn the modem."

Figment, don't just talk about it do it. When opportunity knocks don't complain about the noise.

You will enjoy being on broadband once you burn your modem. I'll support your wish to change over to broadband. You'll gain more speed than buying a Majic 25.

Warren.

The Bigfella
05-21-2007, 10:39 PM
Warren:



When opportunity knocks don't complain about the noise.



Its a pity you don't practice what you preach. This is a selection of the noise you have generated this year:



MarkC:
“I shouldn't grumble - I used to sound like Wild Wassa when I was in Uni - but then I guess I sauered with age.”

Larry P.:
“Warren you are a liar.”

Donn:
“Warren likes him. That's more than enough evidence for me.”

Larry P.:
“Sorry Warren you are not a liar, just a damn fool……. and a pathetic one at that.”

Hwl:
“A bit over the top Warren.”

Paul Fitzgerald:
“Warren, the essence of wisdom is learning when to say "no".”

WX:
“Jeezus Warren, fair suck of the sav Mate. Ease up or you'll go blind.”

Ian Marchuk:
“Warren surely you can make your point without dragging this forum
into the sewer , languagewise . Michigangeorge was punted outahere for this very reason among others.
I hope others will chime in at this point in supporting me in asking Warren to edit his post, eliminating the sewer mouthed trash.
Over to you ladies and gentlemen....”

Skuthorp:
“I'm sorry Warren that you're so upset about things. But there's no need for that sort of display, it does you no credit, or respects the privelige we enjoy here.”

Shamus:
“It's not so much the language as the lack of finesse that I object to in that post.”

Doorstop:
“Well, in Warrens case it might be a case of "so many spits, so few dummies!".... settle me crazed little Canberran, settle!”

Ian Marchuk:
“Since when does a smear job contribute anything to the discussion.
Warren , reread #7 and try to understand that for those of us not very familiar with Philip Ruddock and Aussie politics your contribution
is of dubious (to be charitable) value. Quite the contrary , I am left
doubting your case .
Warren , such a post only preaches to the converted. Would you care to make your case to those on the other side of the world who
do not have the insight that you have?
Evil rubbing off ....??????
Perhaps an exorcism is in order..... sheesh....”

Stiletto:
“I saw the connection Warren, I was responding to the fact that your posts about the Farrier and painting etc. are informative and interesting, but you sometimes branch out into what , from here , looks like rabid behaviour.”

JohnB:
“You're just being deliberately insulting Wassa. No skin off my nose, you've demonstrated your belief system for all the world to see.”

JohnB
“You crack me up Wassa.
ego , LOL.
Coming from the egomaniac extraordinaire thats really something.
Froth away old son , froth away.”




Opportunity knocks Warren - how about toning down the noise?

Wild Wassa
05-22-2007, 04:29 AM
I'm surprised that you care so much Ian Gatenby. I really appear to have gotten to you. If I make you itch Ian Gatenby have another big scratch on me.

I'm so used to your public school prefect harping and bullying it is like water off a ducks back.

Your hate sheet that you keep publishing only builds my infamy. Having only fifteen minutes of infamy just will not do. Keep up the good work Cyber Bully and keep adding to my reputation ... I like it.

When ever I do well racing you drag your hate sheet out. Do you even realize that you are doing it? You will get a dog in the manger reputation. Woh! ... Big Fella Woh! Go'n get back in your box.

Warren.

MarkC
05-22-2007, 05:23 AM
The pressure on team NZ must be terrible.

As far as I know there is 25 million NZ dollars of public money in the team.

As rabid as the NZ 'supporters' are getting now - if you read the blogs - how are these supporters going to react if tnz lose? 'You have wasted taxpayers' money - we will have our revenge!'

The Team NZ will have to stay overseas - or the 'Black Hearts' will hunt them down.

and I though Nzealanders were good sports...

The Bigfella
05-22-2007, 05:48 AM
I'm surprised that you care so much Ian Gatenby. I really appear to have gotten to you. If I make you itch Ian Gatenby have another big scratch on me.

I'm so used to your public school prefect harping and bullying it is like water off a ducks back.

Your hate sheet that you keep publishing only builds my infamy. Having only fifteen minutes of infamy just will not do. Keep up the good work Cyber Bully and keep adding to my reputation ... I like it.

When ever I do well racing you drag your hate sheet out. Do you even realize that you are doing it? You will get a dog in the manger reputation. Woh! ... Big Fella Woh! Go'n get back in your box.



Good to hear that you did well racing Warren. Congratulations to the skipper too.

Public school prefect - yet again, a wrong assumption on your part. You forget - I'm not only a self-made man but also a veritable legend in my own mind.

Bullying? - seems to me the only one around here acting like a bully isn't me. I just speak up whenever I see bully boy behaviour. Strewth - I even speak up when people jump queues - so don't be surprised when I point out what you get up to.

Care to see why I commented:

All YOUR words Warren:



You are both being precious over reactionaries.......

Your fragile egos are bigger than your boats......

Learn some geography boys there is a big wide world out there. ... before you get more geographically dislocated and embarrased and have it stuffed up ya, ... take a bearing boys.


JB, I do actually admire your precious huge ego ... I try to cultivate mine to the same level. Obviously I'm not up to it, I promise to try harder, Maaa.a.t.tt.te, and mind your manners. Do your worst but remember your image is all important to you.

....that Limp Wrist is a flake and water-baby wantabee ...


All that just on the last page....

oh - by the way - the "boat caddy" as you just derogatorily called a mate of mine is a dual world champion in a premier skiff class with more skill in his little finger than you've ever demonstrated. Fancy winning a world championship in a boat you've built yourself?

... as for your attack on John. I had the pleasure of having lunch in the shade of an Americas Cup yacht early last year and discussing mutual contacts in the AC field. A thorough gentleman with none of the attributes you try to slur him with - and well up on what's happening with the AC. As a matter of fact, he's been well up on a lot of the issues before the fact - as opposed to analysis with the benefit of hindsight.

Keep slagging off at people mate - I'm more than happy to air your dirty laundry for you.

Wild Wassa
05-22-2007, 06:54 AM
I notice at no stage do you say who made the first personal attacks or that my posts were responses to those attacks.

... but then your type of bully wouldn't. That would defeat what you are about Ian Gatenby.

Do your worst.

Warren.

The Bigfella
05-22-2007, 07:15 AM
I notice at no stage do you say who made the first personal attacks or that my posts were responses to those attacks.


As I recall it, some bloke hiding behind a pseudonym made a racist attack. Got a mirror handy mate?

The Bigfella
05-22-2007, 07:21 AM
I notice at no stage do you say who made the first personal attacks or that my posts were responses to those attacks.



Yep - there it is - Post #117 - Oh, it was YOU was it?

Wild Wassa
05-22-2007, 07:32 AM
That wasn't being racist not at all. Is being an Arab being a particular race of people. I was being cynically bigotted. Please learn the difference. What, you have never cracked a biggoted joke yourself? ... only you will know if you can even be honest to yourself. Don't ever expect me to be politically correct.

But I suppose any attack you make is in the Forum's best public interest ... it must be good being the one who is self delegated to do it on behalf of the Forum and that they are public interest sorties that you perform and not attacks. It is good that you have chosen me to be your wipping boy. Do you get your jollies off doing it ... do you? You are a Sydney party boy.

Do you know one definition of having a disordered mind Ian Gatenby. Being irrational by repeatedly doing the same task but expecting a different result, that is one of the act of a disordered mind. Well I don't think your plan to drive me off the site is working sport, but just stick with it because it will take its toll on you. Sticking to your irrational task of continually posting your hate sheets will just confirm that you are mad ... of that I don't need confirmation Cyber Bully.

Go'n get back in your box ... Woof!

Warren.

The Bigfella
05-22-2007, 08:05 AM
That wasn't being racist not at all. Is being an Arab being a particular race of people. I was being cynically bigotted. Please learn the difference. What, you have never cracked a biggoted joke yourself? ... only you will know if you can even be honest to yourself. Don't ever expect me to be politically correct.

But I suppose any attack you make is in the Forum's best public interest ... it must be good being the one who is self delegated to do it on behalf of the Forum and that they are public interest sorties that you perform and not attacks. It is good that you have chosen me to be your wipping boy. Do you get your jollies off doing it ... do you? You are a Sydney party boy.

Do you know one definition of having a disordered mind Ian Gatenby. Being irrational by repeatedly doing the same task but expecting a different result, that is one of the act of a disordered mind. Well I don't think your plan to drive me off the site is working sport, but just stick with it because it will take its toll on you. Sticking to your irrational task of continually posting your hate sheets will just confirm that you are mad ... of that I don't need confirmation Cyber Bully.

Go'n get back in your box ... Woof!

Warren.



No one has ever asked you to leave the site Warren - have they? Scot maybe - I seem to recall him having to delete one of your threads.

Plenty have asked you to tone your behaviour down - at least a dozen foruimites - not including me - in the last few months. You know - acceptable behaviour - ever considered the concept?

BTW - whats a
wipping boy?

Oh - and post #117 is racist.

S/V Laura Ellen
05-22-2007, 08:41 AM
Getting back on topic:
Racing postponed today due to high winds.

http://www.americascup.com/multimedia/images/img_traitees/2007/05/lvsf070521cl_00002_2col.jpg

Russ Manheimer
05-22-2007, 09:05 AM
Thanks Allan. Any predictions for tomorrow? Desafio seems to like the NE breeze. It will be fun to see them racing in some serious waves.

Russ

Stiletto
05-22-2007, 11:24 PM
It will be fun to see them racing in some serious waves.


I wonder what colour Team NZ's bucket is this year.;)

bamamick
05-23-2007, 07:50 AM
hell breaks loose.

Is Dickson really out (not that it matters)? Well, as I had thought this is a turning point for Ellison and perhaps for the America's Cup. Whoever challenges from the USA the next time I suspect that it will be a yacht club challenge and that there will be a healthy infusion of Americans on the boat. Probably won't make any difference as far as sailing goes, but it would go a long way towards getting the people (and maybe the sponsors) behind it. Not that it matters much to the rest of the world, but imo future American involvement in this thing is on shaky ground.

Also imo, Luna Rossa won every start before I went off on my trip. If Ellison has all of these assets at his disposal then he should have made some changes after say, the second race. Whatever. Luna Rossa deserves their spot and ETNZ better watch out. I love the drama personally. I may have to put on my UITG cap and sit in front of the telly to watch some of this upcoming series.

Mickey Lake

S/V Laura Ellen
05-23-2007, 08:11 AM
Thanks Allan. Any predictions for tomorrow? Desafio seems to like the NE breeze. It will be fun to see them racing in some serious waves.

Russ

It may be just wishful thinking, but I hope Desafio takes the series. It's not likely though. Desafio has no room for any gear problems.

S/V Laura Ellen
05-23-2007, 08:26 AM
Desafio blew the start and doesn't look like it is doing well in the slop. Unless ETNZ breaks something the semis may be over. But if somethings going to break todays the day.

Wild Wassa
05-23-2007, 11:08 AM
"Desafio blew the start" or the Emirates kept them away from the line?

The Emirates wouldn't let Desafio anywhere near the line and being the downwind boat they owned the start. They crossed the line 14 seconds in front of Desafio. On the first beat the Emirates matched tacks so by the first mark it was all over.

I was surprised to see Desafio playing follow the leader as much as they did today. The wind was excellent on left of the course. The left layline the wind was 2- 3 knots stronger than the right side of the course yet they didn't try to exploit those conditions.

When Desafio tried to do something different which was far too late in the match, they went to the slow side of the course.

The Final of the Louis Vuitton should be a good contest. Go Prada.

Warren.

epoxyboy
05-23-2007, 11:17 PM
"Desafio blew the start" or the Emirates kept them away from the line?

The Emirates wouldn't let Desafio anywhere near the line and being the downwind boat they owned the start. They crossed the line 14 seconds in front of Desafio. On the first beat the Emirates matched tacks so by the first mark it was all over.

I was surprised to see Desafio playing follow the leader as much as they did today. The wind was excellent on left of the course. The left layline the wind was 2- 3 knots stronger than the right side of the course yet they didn't try to exploit those conditions.

When Desafio tried to do something different which was far too late in the match, they went to the slow side of the course.

The Final of the Louis Vuitton should be a good contest. Go Prada.

Warren.


Is he just grumpy because a team from the West Island of New Zealand doesn't feature, or what?

Pete

Paul G.
05-24-2007, 02:05 AM
Those west islanders haven't had a contender since the last one sank if I i do recall


During a challenger trial race on March 5, an Australian boat suddenly split in half and disappeared below the water in less than two minutes, becoming the first yacht in America's Cup history to sink. Fortunately, all crew members were rescued.

Stiletto
05-24-2007, 05:28 PM
Saw two interviews with Grant Dalton (CEO, and crewman of ETNZ).

He said that the Kiwis would be happy to have all their races in conditions like yesterday, and commented that Barker's toughness is often underestimated.

He also speculated as to how good Luna Rossa really is, given Oracle's meltdown, but wouldnt comment further on Oracle, saying it will all come out over time anyway.

The point was made that the Kiwis have the smallest budget of all the remaining contenders.

bamamick
05-24-2007, 05:42 PM
and after doing some thinking, I really think that I should root for the guys on ETNZ from here on out. 25 million of public funds mean one thing to me: winning this thing means one hell of a lot more to the people of New Zealand than it ever would to anyone in the US. Sure, a cynic would say that it was an investment towards bringing the Cup back to New Zealand and the money that that would mean for the country and the city of Auckland, but I can just imagine what would happen in this country if someone tried to pass a measure donating 25 million dollars towards a sailing competition?

ETNZ really showed their stuff in the seas yesterday from what I have read. Seems that there were some Cheshire cat smiles when asked about the funny bow in the waves. Could it be that they found their sweet spot? Hats off to Desafio for a gallant fight. Everyone was so enamored of the South Africans that the home team sort of got overlooked, but they did a great job.

Now on to the meat and potatos. I am picking ETNZ over Spithill and Grael even though Luna Rossa looks so tough right now. And then I am picking Alinghi over ETNZ. I don't know, but something just seems rather sinister about the way that the defender just sits back and waits while all of this goes on. Whatever happens, it's been a very interesting Cup season. Maybe if Alinghi or ETNZ win we won't have to wait five years again. They need to get this thing on a schedule like the World Cup so that we'll know what's going on. They can leave the nationality rules the way that they are and perhaps should, but I would like to see a legit yacht club from the US make a proper challenge the next time. I don't care how many Yanks are on the boat but it would do a lot for public support if there were at least a 50% ratio.

Mickey Lake

John B
05-24-2007, 06:07 PM
Those conditions in the last race are typical Hauraki gulf stuff, 18 or 20 and a close to land seabreeze chop. They've learnt from the last one about making the boat stay together though, I sailed past them training out there in all sorts of weather over the last season, including returning from Kawau one day when it went 30 in gusts easy.
Their problem is if it goes light for the finals I'd guess.
But yes, more emerging about Alinghi eh. some new mainsail material on top of Coutts comments about the rig.

Wild Wassa
05-24-2007, 06:27 PM
I have supported Prada from the outset because of James Spithill's involvement and genius, so not supporting the Emirates makes me grumpy to you Kiwis? ... I'm not all adoring of the Emirates boat, so if that makes me grumpy, so be it. I wonder how many here are all adoring of the Emirates boat ... only you Kiwis?

I like to bet on yacht races. I did my doe on Silver Fern in the last America's Cup. Team New Zealand put up the most lame defence of the Cup in the history of the Cup, some say. I can only fully agree ... I can't afford another bad session on a New Zealandish boat (financed by an Arab airline?). The boat isn't called Team NewZealand Emirates.

If Prada wins the Challenge against the Emirates, I'll not have money on Prada against Alinghi, that would be stupid. Alinghi looks unbeatable ... then the Italians on WBF can call me grumpy!.

Put things back in perspective Kiwis. If the Emirates beats Prada ... will you guys be put your money where your mouths are against Alinghi? ... I doubt it.

Bask in it while it lasts boys ... because there is a Swiss boat out there sailed by someone called Cootes and Butterworth. Do those names ring a bell Kiwis?

This race isn't about nations challenging and defending the cup, it is about the best professional sailors joining the best teams with the best sponsors dollars to pay for reliability. I wonder how long it will be before nationalities aren't even considered as part of the equation. It is a no one knows where the headquarters of Coke-a-Cola is, scenario.

I couldn't tell you how many US, Australians or Kiwi sailors are on the different teams ... but I bet there is at least one of each nation on each boat, or if their isn't, their designers are. Who was the designer of Oracle again? ... I think I know.

I was listening to a German engineer from BMW who was on Oracle's design team this morning. He was saying that the ceramic blocks used allowed Oracle to raise her spinnaker 1/10th of a second faster than any other team in the Louis Vuitton. When this trickles down, now that will thrill me.

Warren.

The Bigfella
05-24-2007, 07:57 PM
I sailed past them training out there in all sorts of weather over the last season, including returning from Kawau one day when it went 30 in gusts easy.


This sort of conjures up images of Waione powering past the AC boats - a nice image John - but ........???


I did my doe

and that conjures up images akin to Kiwis and sheep .......



call me grumpy!.


Yeah, I'll probably awaken that side of you - but relax - its a joke - get it?

rbgarr
05-24-2007, 09:05 PM
Coutts' and Cayard's pictures taken down from America's Cup display: http://sailmagazine.blogspot.com/2007/05/whats-wrong-with-this-picture.html

John B
05-24-2007, 09:31 PM
Geez wassa, Coutts hasn't been with Alinghi for a couple of years, surely you know that.

Russ Manheimer
05-31-2007, 08:15 PM
Finals tomorrow at 9:00am EDT, Kiwis win series 5 to 2. I'll wager a sail on Sjogin, any takers? Jamie?
I found the IACC Rule (http://acregatta.americascup.com/multimedia/docs/2006/06/ac_class_rule_version_5.doc.pdf) poking around the official site (http://www.americascup.com/en/). There should be an amendment to Rule 14 that states "At no time shall the Sheerline show any shape other than that which is pleasing to the eye". You could argue that if the hulls at least looked like some of the recent Spirit of Tradition class, it might gather a larger following. The current boats are ugly but the racing's (usually) fun to watch.

Enjoy,

Russ

Still sailing as slow as I can. (http://www.sjogin.com/?p=92)

bamamick
06-01-2007, 08:07 AM
report from Valencia that the wind is up? Should favor the Kiwis if so.
Damn but I wish that I had OLN here in Spanish Fort!

Mickey Lake

S/V Laura Ellen
06-01-2007, 08:34 AM
Looks like a real close match. Should be an exciting series.
Go LR!

bamamick
06-01-2007, 09:31 AM
Super stuff!

Mickey Lake

rbgarr
06-01-2007, 09:35 AM
FWIW- If you can't watch, there's an almost tack-by-tack, real-time, refreshable commentary here: http://www.tackbytack.com/index.asp

Russ Manheimer
06-01-2007, 09:56 AM
First one to ETNZ

rbgarr
06-01-2007, 09:58 AM
The race took about an hour and a half. What speed over the ground were the boats making? Anyone know?

bamamick
06-01-2007, 10:16 AM
Awesome stuff. Oh how I hope that this continues on into the America's Cup finale.

Mickey Lake

Wild Wassa
06-01-2007, 12:46 PM
Rbgarr, the wind was overly consistant between 12.6 - 12.9 with the odd gust to 13.6. there was one windshift that possibly gained the Emirates 150m when they were the lee boat 2/3rds of the way to the 1st mark. I thought that was the defining moment of the race. Although the advantage held wasn't great before the shift, after the shift it was. If the shift hadn't come the Emirates would have been stuck out on the right side of the course ... the 150m below Prada would have crucified them.

On the works the boats were doing 9.6 - 9.7 (mostly). When running they reached a heady 11.6 on one occassion. What made the race so fast was that neither boats sailed out of the basic 10/2 o'clock zone. The Emirates did once, I noticed, but the shift changed that quickly. Then when running both skippers saved much distance by tight rhumb lining.

On the works the lead changed many times. Barker and Spithill have all the skills to beat each other. It was a top race and an excellent display of tight sailing and distance saving.

Warren.

rbgarr
06-02-2007, 02:10 PM
Race 2, ETNZ wins by 40 secs. Some say a different mainsail was a factor.

Wild Wassa
06-02-2007, 03:59 PM
The Emirates team are looking good. They appear to have changed from flat out sprinting to tidy covering.

The Emirates were faster through each turn and they were on the fast side of each tack. The tacking duels were the most untidy and out of phase that I've seen from Spithill. He lost 5 metres on each turn. The Emirates were consistantly faster on all but the dead runs, when I checked the boat speeds. There were dead runs ... if only a metre or two.

Approaching the 3rd mark the ETNZ picked up a shift that was huge, it had to have been better than a 40 degree lift. The Emirates didn't need to take all of it either. This shift shut the gate on Prada. Prada were too close to the layline to gain any benefit from it. It must have hurt watching ETNZ sail straight up the rhumb line. Prada could have been broad reaching for the last few hundred metres to the 3rd mark if they were also on the good side of the puff.

It was during the third leg tacking duel that the real damage was done. The Italians must be still lighting up cigarettes each time they finish a turn and throwing their butts overboard when they are about to tack ... just watch the smoke signals on Italian boats.

On the final run the Emirates gained only a second over Prada. The run home was Prada's only good leg. If it was the new mainsail that was working for the Emirates? ... it was working well during each turn. Spithill if he is wise, will keep well away from the Emirates today and sail anywhere except near them to limit the turns ... but he should also limit smoking to running downwind.

Warren.

bamamick
06-02-2007, 04:43 PM
to do well, but this racing seems to me to mean that ETNZ is ready to take on Alinghi, and that's really what I wanted to see. I don't favor either boat (ETNZ or Alinghi), but I do think that it would be great for the sport if the finals are well contested.

Seems like just yesterday that Barker and Spithill were kids sailing in a man's game. Not anymore, eh? Wasn't Spithill the driver on Steak n' Kidney when it was a 'young people's challenge' sort of thing?

Mickey Lake

rbgarr
06-03-2007, 11:22 AM
ETNZ by 98 seconds today. Ooof for LR.

bamamick
06-03-2007, 02:02 PM
How was the breeze? When I went to sleep (I worked last night) the reports were of light and fluky and they weren't sure they'd get it off, but then it appeared that the sea breeze punched through from the east and they were more hopeful.

98 seconds leads me to believe that it was light. Either that or the Kiwis have really found their legs. Oh, how I hope that the AC final is tightly contested.

Mickey Lake

rbgarr
06-03-2007, 03:30 PM
The wind was about 8-10 knots.

Russ Manheimer
06-03-2007, 03:46 PM
Anybody know where Coutts is?

John R - Kitenui
06-03-2007, 05:14 PM
who cares ???

S/V Laura Ellen
06-03-2007, 06:42 PM
Anybody know where Coutts is?


Coutts is a village in Alberta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta) and the location of one of the busiest Canada – US (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada-United_States_border) border crossings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_crossing) in western Canada. It connects Alberta Highway 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_provincial_highway_4) to Interstate 15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_15), an important trade route (CANAMEX Corridor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CANAMEX_Corridor)) between Alberta, American states along I-

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Coutts%2C_Alberta_Location.png

bamamick
06-03-2007, 08:12 PM
could have done with another syndicate. Considering that he is acknowledged to be a master in comparison to guys like Spithill and Barker it would have made things very interesting to see what he could have done on a boat like Desafio.

When this is over I would like to see an unbiased reportage of what the people at BMWO think that they did wrong after all these years and $300 million US down the drain. They were so outclassed by Luna Rossa and in all honesty their pure boat speed may have been no better than middle of the pack at the end, when it mattered most.

Sadly (because I think that he has done wonders in creating wholesome offshore designs that are much easier to sail fast than most of what had come before), it appears that Bruce Farr and Associates struck out once again. I am not sure how the design was split between he and Juan K, but the boat was not fast in the end and that's all that matters.

Mickey Lake

JollyJack
06-04-2007, 05:04 AM
Russel Who? Brad Who? like who needs tom, brad & Rusel?

3 zip. Looks like the New Zealand Cup (AKA. America's Cup) is on its way back to Auckland!:rolleyes:

Hi Guys n Gals,

Ive just foud this site today and it looks Great. Ive been away from modeling for about 25 year and am now just geting back into it.
Just built BluenoseII form a kit. Locking now for plans of working squear rigger that i can sail.

Cheers
JollyJack.:)

Wild Wassa
06-04-2007, 04:56 PM
"Russel who? ..."

The Russell who the New Zealand Government honoured with a Commander of the British Empire and a Distinguished Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit ... that Russell.

Coutts came to am amicable agreement with Enesto Bertanelli after not appreciating Bertanelli's "new aspects of management style." Which I'm presuming was putting a syndicate lackey in charge of the team over Coutts. Coutts then left Alinghi.

He joind Paul Cayard and they have teamed up with Portugese sports promoter Joao Lagos to start the World Sailing League which will begin in 2009. Twelve national teams will compete in an annual event in state of the art 70ft cats. 70ft cats are OK for novelty events. (Wake me up when the World Sailing League is over.)

The real racing is on again today ... and how come people keep calling P R A D A, Luna Rossa? It is written on the front of the boat ... P R A D A. LUNA ROSSA is written on the back of the boat. Today, I hope the Emirates look at LUNA ROSSA for the entire race. Go P R A D A !

After racing on Sunday, we were waiting for the race presentations, drinking beer and discussing the Cup and my Skipper Lee says, "I want NZ to win but don't tell Kiwis that. There is nothing worse than a smug Kiwi sportsman." Instantly the two South Sea Island Pom sailors who I'm sitting with, who my Skipper hadn't met or heard their unmissable accents said, "Oonly smugg Aust-rali-ans." Too true I can only agree. The rivalry doesn't stop ... nore should it.

Warren.

rbgarr
06-04-2007, 10:12 PM
I didn't see the race yesterday but read this commentary:

While watching the race Sunday morning on Versus, I was amazed by the move
Spithill made to let ETNZ off the hook. Those Kiwi's were toast. I'm no
match-racing expert, but this move (or lack of a commitment to sail around
the end of the line at the committee boat - with ETNZ significantly behind
and still controlling both the right and left) has to go down as one of the
major blunders of the LV CUP this year. Cayard had it right: "but then with
1 minute to go and his opponent trapped above the line, he mysteriously
gybed away and went for the left end of the line."

If Luna Rossa wanted left they still would have had that option – IF - they
rounded the committee boat with the Kiwi's on their tail. The big bonus
would have been the controlling position - AHEAD - in case the ETNZ tacked
right after crossing the line, significantly behind. The right has been
favored on all 3 races - and after two losses going left, why wouldn't you
want to get right just to have that chance - especially if you have a
significant advantage of "starting ahead". Starting both clear ahead and
significantly ahead would have allowed the Italians the ability to go
whichever way they wanted. Sure, James Spithill and Luna Rossa hit the line
on the money and with speed, but this advantage paled in comparison to what
they gave up with a minute to go.

Is that what happened at the start? Could Spithill have thought that LR would start upwind before ETNZ got back down to the line for an on-time start at the gun?

Wild Wassa
06-05-2007, 03:04 AM
This is what happened.

Both boats entered the box at -4.48 minutes. The Emirates from the pin end.

They started to dial up at -4.20. Approaching the line the Emirates attempted to bearaway just before the line (on a port tack) so as not to cross to the course side but Prada held them up.

Both boats then crossed the line and started to luff up at -3.55 and eventually completed the ugliest looking dial up that you will ever see at -3.00. They were luffed up for about 30 seconds and then the Emirates broke away onto the starb'd tack. Prada not accelerating as quickly dropped down and remained the priority boat, that was a good move by Prada.

At the -2.31 both boats headed directly downwind to the line, both boats were doing less than 2.0 knots heading downwind. Prada was ever so slightly, attempting to hold the Emirates closer to the pin end. At the -1.20 the Emirates who were now 75 metres from the line and nearly a boat lenght behind Prada dropped behind Prada and Prada immediately covered. Both boats were only doing 1.3 knots at that stage at the start of a reach. The Emirates were on a broad reach on port and Prada still covering, held them up. Both boats were running slowly along the line, Prada was 50m on the course side.

Prada was over sheeted and accelerated far too rapidly to 9.6 knots while reaching. The Emirates who were accelerating almost as quickly went slightly head-to-wind and bled off speed. Closing overly fast on the Committee boat Prada dropped below the line and started a high speed turn back towards the pin. The Emirates were going somewhat slowly at a touch over 7 knots dropped into the space that Prada had just created. They re-entered the box and completed their turn towards the line close to the Committee boat. Prada held a 20 metre advantage at the start while the boats were seperated by 150m ... Prada was too far to the left.

It must have been a puff that Spithill wasn't warned about that caught them out.... the boat accelerated quickly and on this occassion Prada was seriously caught out when needing to go slowly. The Emirates when they re-entered the box with 33 seconds to go did a tight turn immediately before the start while Prada, to complete their turn, went via Gibraltar. I imagine that Spithill had nightmares about not forcing a possible OCS on the Emirates. I'm still having nightmares over it ... but go P R A D A!.

Warren.

rbgarr
06-05-2007, 10:31 AM
ETNZ 4, LR 0

52 sec win

Wild Wassa
06-05-2007, 04:04 PM
I can't figure why Spithill failed to attack the Emirates half way up the first leg. Prada had just proven to themselves that forcing a starb'd call on the Emirates payed big dividends and then when the Emirates tacked back onto port Spithill was in a perfect position to tack again and to put another star'bd call on the Emirates but he failed to do so. This gave the control of the match to the Emirates. Prada tried to out drag the Emirates ... getting into a drag race with a seriously faster boat is not on for sane sailors. Maybe in the Italian's contracts they have enforced cigarette breaks .... smoko we call it and this break caused Prada to stop outsailing the Emirates. I still can't believe that Spithill gave away the control of the race. You wouldn't see this ordinary tactic happening in midweek club racing.

The margin of 52 seconds looks a lot better than the race was actually sailed by Spithill and the crew.

The Italians can afford to lose one more race (strategically) before they start the comeback of this century, :rolleyes: .

Yesterday's race gives me something to laugh at and to distract me today while I continue resurfacing a sorry Farr 6000, by knowing that some in boating are far worse off when dealing with New Zealand boats. At least I'll get to have a win.

Warren.

rbgarr
06-05-2007, 04:40 PM
LR can lose another and not be out?? I thought this was a best of nine series.

John B
06-05-2007, 04:50 PM
This is the new WBF joke thread. Cracks me up.

Wild Wassa
06-05-2007, 05:10 PM
Hola ... (I'm practicing Spanish).

What do you mean only the best of nine? ... I'm booked on a flight directly to Spain at 1.00pm today to watch the last 6 races in the LVC Final ... I'm just about to confirm my flight. I'm taking a discount flight with another 100 blind sailors.

When we get to Spain, we are going to hire a bare boat and buzz the course but we can't figure out which of us will keep watch. It says in the Int Col Regs, "A watch must be kept at all times." This could create a problem.

Have a good day ... Ahora tengo un plano a coger.

Adios Hippy Gringos ... (my Spanish phrase book is somewhat old).

Warren.

Paul G.
06-06-2007, 10:35 AM
Hey Wassa........EAT MY SHORTS!!!!:D

htom
06-06-2007, 10:41 AM
5-0, TNZ. I thought that Spain was going to win this one for a long time.

bamamick
06-06-2007, 10:45 AM
Great showing for the New Zealand boat. They should be as ready for the challenge of taking on Alinghi as anyone could be.

Congratulations as well to the Luna Rossa crew. There is little consolation in finishing second in a series like this, but they were great competitors and represented their country (I guess that I should say 'countrIES') and their syndicate very well.

Now comes the good part. Somehow or another these finals usually wind up being boring sweeps by one side or the other. I hope that that's not the case this time.

Mickey Lake

bamamick
06-06-2007, 10:53 AM
in the way that you meant.

Before Valencia was named as the homeport for the LVC and the AC Spain was not really a big time player in the world of yachting. Then came the news that they would be hosting and all of a sudden Spain became the new hot spot.

The first combined ISAF world's went to Spain. The Princessa Sofia has turned into one of the truly great international regattas. The Dragons had our Gold Cup in Palma this year even though the Dragon fleet in Spain is as small as the one in the US. Sailing is happening in Spain, and I think that they can give Ernesto Bertarelli a big 'thank you' for that one.

If Alinghi goes on to win this and Valencia hosts again then this thing should only get bigger and so will sailing on the coast of Spain. It's a happenin' spot right now. Sure would like to give it a go myself some time.

Mickey Lake

martin schulz
06-06-2007, 12:09 PM
...and so will sailing on the coast of Spain. It's a happenin' spot right now.

Mickey Lake

Ohh, and I always thought Flensburg is THE hot-spot for sailing.

John B
06-06-2007, 04:40 PM
Yeah, good result.
What I find amusing is the false satellite data/interpretation being accepted as gospel by all and sundry.
I've watched that virtual eye distance marker flick over like a airport ticker in situations when obviously no such thing is happening.

In another aberration( for example),at the first mark in todays race it showed LR 50 m behind when they had been out 100 metres past the lay line. It was still locked in a vector mode when clearly they were in a drag race chase for the mark , the real difference was 100 m approx.

The thing is obviously affected by atmospherics or other influence , but the software has some big holes too.

Wild Wassa
06-06-2007, 05:03 PM
John B, what sattelite data were you watching?

The Lucent Alcatel programme shows 'the up wind advantage' and 'the separation between the boats' it doesn't show distances to the marks. If there are glitches, the distances can be calculated from the grid if it is displayed. I don't watch the actual event in real time there are too many problems. An hour after the races I like to slowly watch the replays several times over ... and then form my interpretations.

Congratulation to the Emirate Airlines the major financiers of the winning boat. Congratulations to the minor financial backers of the syndicate as well and a really huge congratulations to Team Luna Rossa Prada and all Prada's Italian supporters and their loyal supporters world wide for having their boat get as far as she did in the Cup. I'm sure that in the Emirate States, the Emiratey supporters will be blown away by their boat's financiers' wins ... I hope I haven't forgotten to congratulate anyone of importance?

Let's see how short lived this win will be? Go A L I N G H I !! and remember Silver Fern's last defence of the Cup Team Alinghi ... it is an easy act to follow.

Warren.

John B
06-06-2007, 05:37 PM
Its the data that comes with the live TV coverage.
Creates an advantage line between the boats etc.
I've seen some bizarre GPS readings flick up on my boat unit over the years so it doesn't surprise me that they have errors too.
I did a max speed of 20 knots once according to Mr Garmin.Not.

Paul G.
06-06-2007, 06:19 PM
Wassa, While the rest of the world congratulates team NZ for a truly magnificent effort, you seem to choke blood at the thought of giving these fine international yachtsmen any credit for their skill and dedication.

I guess sour grapes, and mean spiritedness go hand in hand with underarm bowling. I am so glad to have met many fine Australians that are the total opposite to you.

Put that in your thinners cup and sniff it:D

The Bigfella
06-06-2007, 06:59 PM
Yep - well done ETNZ.

The Bigfella
06-06-2007, 08:15 PM
Wassa, While the rest of the world congratulates team NZ for a truly magnificent effort, you seem to choke blood at the thought of giving these fine international yachtsmen any credit for their skill and dedication.

I guess sour grapes, and mean spiritedness go hand in hand with underarm bowling. I am so glad to have met many fine Australians that are the total opposite to you.

Put that in your thinners cup and sniff it:D


Paul - careful now mate - that's a big assumption there - are you sure he's an Aussie? I know he supports Sri Lanka in the cricket (oops, they lost too) and you may actually find that he's possibly a Pom?

Paul G.
06-06-2007, 08:34 PM
I think you're right, the true Ozzie spirit supports the battler mentality and the kiwis this time are battlers, underfunded and coming back from a 5 nil drubbing...

Anyway Wassa is a Tossa

epoxyboy
06-06-2007, 11:30 PM
I'm sure that in the Emirate States, the Emiratey supporters will be blown away by their boat's financiers' wins ... I hope I haven't forgotten to congratulate anyone of importance?

Let's see how short lived this win will be? Go A L I N G H I !! and remember Silver Fern's last defence of the Cup Team Alinghi ... it is an easy act to follow.




Now let's not forget the $35mil the NZ government generously put in on behalf of us taxpayers - my invite to the grand finale must have got lost in the mail though!
So what happened to Go P R A D A and Spithill the "genius" - I hope you didnt have any money riding on them LOL.
And yes, I think TNZ does remember the last defence - thats why the buckets havent featured this regatta on "our" boat, and not much seems to have broken.

Pete

WindHawk
06-07-2007, 01:09 PM
Flensburg IS the center of the sailing world.

Tanbark Spanker
06-07-2007, 02:24 PM
*remembers being lost in a hurricane just south of Cadiz ...on a bicycle* Yes, viva Espana, indeed.

Wild Wassa
06-11-2007, 03:51 PM
"Wassa, While the rest of the world congratulates team NZ ..."

Not on this Forum they aren't. Only one of the 15,420+ members has even bothered to say well done. Don't kid yourselves ... the World doesn't give a toss. You have probably been listening to Kiwi sports commentators.

No, I didn't back P R A D A, I knew who would win the Louis Vuitton. I didn't like what I knew though, I just hoped PRADA would pull something special out of the woodwork. I didn't want to see another lame Kiwi boat in the Cup. Sure the best of the Kiwi sailors are hot sailors, but the hottest ones aren't on the Emirate's boat ... nor are they a couple of weekend cruising sailors.

... 5 Zip. That is the sound here ... ZIP. Even the escaped Kiwis here, reckon it will be 5 zip to Alinghi.
I haven't seen any signs at all of this all admiring World. If you want platitudes and to be mentally masterbated by me ... don't hold your breath.

I doubt that I'll get better than $1.65 on Alinghi with Sportsbet ... but I'll wait. The all admiring world might support 'Fly Emirates' to help jack-up the odds with some late money, hopefully ... but for that, I wont hold my breath.

Warren.

bamamick
06-11-2007, 06:15 PM
on who wins this next series, but is there any talk of an Australian team participating in the 33rd Cup races?

As far as an American team for the 33rd, Larry Ellison has made noises as if he would go again, but it appears that the BMW euros will not be a part of an American challenge. Personally I would like to see a real challenge from a real yacht club, but the obscene amounts of money being spent on this thing have made it a multi-billionaire's game, and there are only so many of those to go around. We don't have one at our club :).

Why in the world have a two week break between races? I assume that it was to make sure they got in all of the races in the LVC, but two weeks?

Mickey Lake

The Bigfella
06-11-2007, 06:26 PM
Wild Wassa:


No, I didn't back P R A D A, I knew who would win the Louis Vuitton. I didn't like what I knew though, I just hoped PRADA would pull something special out of the woodwork. I didn't want to see another lame Kiwi boat in the Cup. Sure the best of the Kiwi sailors are hot sailors, but the hottest ones aren't on the Emirate's boat ... nor are they a couple of weekend cruising sailors.


Oops, that doesn't quite line up with what you said in post 141 now, does it?


Go Prada still counts here. Yeh Go Prada. Well done, nice wins so far.

If you learnt to pick winners boys,......


Oops - didn't pick the winner eh mate? Still at the personal attacks though I see Warren - time for some more pills perhaps? Is the world out to get you?