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Hughman
04-10-2007, 01:09 PM
Not boat, but I do use this heap to tow thw trailer....;)

Need a Volvo wiring diagram for a 1990 240 wagon. I've been left on the side of the road with a short in the tank fuel pump harness, and I need to trace the problem.

Appearently, this info isn't available on the net with out a subscription to a repair service.

I'm looking for a Hanes but thats a 5-day wait-for-order :confused:

TIA :)

S.V. Airlie
04-10-2007, 01:17 PM
Hugh.. just a thought.. perhaps far fetched but have you tried Stetsons down on route 90?.. I mean I know, he sells Suburus now.. but before.. Saabs.. Ya never know...He is kinda a ME. Yankee... may have something.

Canoeyawl
04-10-2007, 06:53 PM
I have it at home, can probably talk you through it...or scan it or both - did you check the relay?
home at 5:30 pacific time...

Hwyl
04-10-2007, 07:00 PM
I've got one, and obviously it's yours if you want it. Worst case I cold drive to the big city tomorrow (really don't want to) and give it to RBgarr (along with some vowels)

Hughman
04-10-2007, 08:14 PM
Jake and Gareth,

First, could you discover from your source where the wiring harness goes- port or starboard? and where are the junction block(s)?

I had a new fuel pump installed this week (tank, sender unit also). Had the car towed back to the mechanic. He insists the new pump is bad. The car will run if you pound on the pump-at the tank, which allows a start, but it will quit after a few minutes. (do these DC pumps have a thermal overload?)

I get 6-7 volts at the pump wiring connector :confused: (although 10.5 volts if I unplug the pump and measure :rolleyes: ) I'm looking for a short somewhere, something to account for the voltage drop, which I suspect doesn't help...

Hwyl
04-10-2007, 08:40 PM
It looks like it could be the brain not sending voltage to the pump---stand by

donald branscom
04-10-2007, 08:40 PM
Connect a battery with wires to the fuel pump. If the fuel pump works then the next culprit is the fuel pump RELAY, but to check that you need a KNOWN BAD RELAY. Many mechanics keep one of these in their tool boxes. The connecting wiring should be checked but is seldom the problem. After all the wiring just sits there and is sealed.

BUT here is the problem. Many of these BOSCH injection systems on Porsche Audi and other cars go thru a fuse panel that has little crimp on connectors, and is located under the dash. These crimp on connectors get corroded and always give trouble right after the 60,ooo mile mark. It is damp,humid air under the dash down by the floorboard.
If it is the fuse panel, the dealer will often change it out , And believe me you don't want to have to do it.
They used to charge $140.00 but I do not know any more.
Check the BACK of the fuse panel and see if you can see corrosion.
There is a spray you can try called LPS and they make LPS 1.2 and 3.
That might wake it up.

If you had a short in the fuel pump harness it would lead to a dead battery. You said you wee left stranded but did not say if it was a dead battery or something else. Fuel injected cars work with a system that has to be + or - one volt so of the battery is deficient that can cause problems.
Fuel injection systems have two main modes for trouble shooting. One is start/no start and the other is running but not running correctly. To diagnose any fuel injection system the first step is to know if the FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR is giving the system the required amount of pressure. Then you can go on from there. Any air leaks in the intake system will also cause problems in both of those areas.
Also if you have a short circuit and the key is OFF and EVERYTHING is turned off and the positive baterry cable is removed and re connected and you see a little spark as you re-connect the cable. That means you have something drawing current like a short.

Do not disconnect the battery on some cars with special stereo systems, as it can disable them forever without a special procedure or protocall which must be followed.

Hwyl
04-10-2007, 08:44 PM
Looks like you might want to try removing the relay located by the pedals on the far left, then jump the terminals #30 and #87, see if this gives you power to the pump. 30 is a solid red wire and 87 is a yellow and red.

I'm home tomorrow if you want more instruction

donald branscom
04-10-2007, 09:17 PM
Looks like you might want to try removing the relay located by the pedals on the far left, then jump the terminals #30 and #87, see if this gives you power to the pump. 30 is a solid red wire and 87 is a yellow and red.

I'm home tomorrow if you want more instruction

Good advise as long as there is no corrosion in that fuse box that has all those relays and connections. Sounds like you know your stuff.

Hwyl
04-10-2007, 09:19 PM
Good advise as long as there is no corrosion in that fuse box that has all those relays and connections. Sounds like you know your stuff.

Reading from the book. Don't know nuffin'


Edit, off to lalal land. Call in the morning if you'd like Hugh

few3
04-10-2007, 09:44 PM
http://www.swedishbricks.net/TechTips/fuelpumprelay.html

If you turn the keyhalfway, you should hear the hum of the inline pump whirring for a second. If not, You have a relay fault, which can be jumped by pulling out the center console fuse panel, and pull that relay out while shredding your arm. Before I get into details, start hitting the Brick forums, there are tons of sites.

few3
04-10-2007, 09:45 PM
http://www.swedishbricks.net/TechTips/fuelpumprelay.html

If you turn the keyhalfway, you should hear the hum of the inline pump whirring for a second. If not, You have a relay fault, which can be jumped by pulling out the center console fuse panel, and pull that relay out while shredding your arm. Before I get into details, start hitting the Brick forums, there are tons of sites.

If I remeber correctly, your Fuel relay is white.

Hughman
04-10-2007, 09:46 PM
Donald, this is the tank booster.

Are you referring to the main injector pump?

few3
04-10-2007, 09:53 PM
Go to the Brickboard

http://www.brickboard.com/

This doesn't sound like an electrical issue ( maybe ). But with your brick, the tank pump can go and your inline can still pump, it just will have a shorter life. If your brain has problems, you won't get anything, anywhere.

Hughman
04-10-2007, 10:02 PM
Would low voltage ruin the pump?


Thanks, few3, great site.

donald branscom
04-11-2007, 02:04 AM
BRICKS?? Do you mean cars? Motorcyclists call them CAGES now.
Just like to be clear about all these terms.

Like i said a KNOWN BAD RELAY is a great diagnostic tool because there is a lot going on in those electronic relays.

I read books AND have a lot of practical experience with Jet Tronic, K- Jetronic and K-Jetronic with LHM (Limp home mode).

Hughman
04-11-2007, 07:11 AM
BRICKS?? Do you mean cars? Motorcyclists call them CAGES now.
Just like to be clear about all these terms.

Like i said a KNOWN BAD RELAY is a great diagnostic tool because there is a lot going on in those electronic relays.

I read books AND have a lot of practical experience with Jet Tronic, K- Jetronic and K-Jetronic with LHM (Limp home mode).

So, I'm driving a brick? It looks and handles like one! :eek:

I'm pussled by the voltage drop: if there was a bad ground, etc., the Amperage would be elevated, the voltage should remain the same.

Whats going on here?

Hughman
04-11-2007, 04:16 PM
Ok, things seem simpler today. The car had been towed to the mechanics that replaced the fuel pump, and there it sat while the mechanic insisted it was a bad fuel pump. I wasn't convinced, so I kept going to the shop to study and fool with it. Today I added a jumper ground wire from the tank sender/pump assembly to the car frame, and drove it home.

I think I twisted the mechanics snuggies (Deb?) so now I gotta find a new mechanic for the next time I need something...:confused:

Hughman
04-11-2007, 04:19 PM
This thread and your responses and links were helpful getting me to think things through. GO WBF!!

Many thanks to you guys:)

Nicholas Carey
04-11-2007, 05:12 PM
Would low voltage ruin the pump?I don't know about ruining the pump, but with some direct injection systems, if the pump isn't delivering a high enough pressure, odd things happens. I seem to remember my old VW Scirocco's fuel injection system (Bosch K- or L-Jetronic, can't remember which) ran on something like 250 psi.

If the injection loop isn't properly pressurized, the assorted 'puters and 'droids involved can get a little confused. If the pressure in the injection loop isn't correct, the injectors deliver too little fuel to the cylinder. That means that the various sniffers and sensors read the fuel/air mixture as being too lean, and start asking for more fuel and less air. And since the system is no incapable of properly responding to the request, it can lead to a feedback loop, with the end result that your vehicle is running at full rich, choked all the way down like it would be if you had just fired it up cold on a below-zero winter's morning. Needless to say, this can lead to...uh...suboptimal (that's a good word) performance.

In my case, a long time ago, it lead to severe misfiring and extremely poor performance running across the backwaters of the rural midwest on a holiday weekend -- the VW couldn't go any faster than about 35-40 mph (and it was extremely unhappy about that.)

The only gas station/mechanic I could find open to work the problem had virtually no experience with Bosch fuel injection systems. I wound up replacing -- on spec -- the air filter, spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor cap, rotor, and ignition coil, only to get pretty much the same problem (a littler better, but not much).

Managed to limp close enough to where I needed to be and had the car towed to my brother's VW mechanic, who diagnosed the root cause in about 30 seconds on a short description of the symptoms, even before I regaled him with my tale of woe and intrigue and the list of the gratutious and unnecessarily replaced parts. Worked out the fuel pump had pretty much died -- it was only pressurizing to about 40psi instead of the desired 200+ psi.

few3
04-11-2007, 08:10 PM
so now I gotta find a new mechanic for the next time I need something...:confused:

Like hell you do. You obviously have an ability and "can do" attitude with your Swedish Brick ( they look like bricks ). Now all you need is the worlds largest Volvo graveyard to supply parts. Hmmmmm, let me think.

http://www.greenleafauto.com/loc-detail.asp?id=22

This place is unbelievable. All Volvos, awesome prices, and carries new in box, old refurbished, and off the lot stuff for a 1/4 of the price. I've spent hours going through their yard, I cannot describe the size if I tried. All Volvos.

Hughman
04-11-2007, 08:31 PM
Thanks, few3. I admit to being a backslid 'I Roll' junkie, having nursed a 122 wagon (among others) to 500K miles or so...

I am starting to cringe when I contemplate sliding under a blocked up 'brick' for some knuckle abuse, however.

There really isn't a good replacement for a solid 240, though.

Canoeyawl
04-11-2007, 08:43 PM
Sure there is...
another 240 -LOL

Tylerdurden
04-12-2007, 03:48 AM
Thanks, few3. I admit to being a backslid 'I Roll' junkie, having nursed a 122 wagon (among others) to 500K miles or so...

I am starting to cringe when I contemplate sliding under a blocked up 'brick' for some knuckle abuse, however.

There really isn't a good replacement for a solid 240, though.


Only in a Jeep! My Wrangler is the Anti-Volvo (Vulva as I like to call em').

Hughman
04-12-2007, 08:32 PM
Well, the ground wire was a false positive...At least I got it back from the 'mechanic', the beast sits in my driveway - where it is getting another coat of snow.
Now I gotta find the spawn of Murphy....

Weather is forecast to be plain nasty for 3-4 days.

Hurricane winds? Kinda hard to focus on wiring glitches in a flamin hurricane!


So, as a consolation, I added another gig of memory to this computer-

few3
04-12-2007, 09:36 PM
Uggghhh.

So she starts, then stops.

What did the "mechanic" say he would do?

If he installed the pump, he should replace it.

If he messed up a hookup on the lines, there could be a check valve reversed.

Sometimes, a less than meticulous mechanic with plop in an a new pump and not take the time to seal the new connections, which eventually green up. This can be a source of trouble.

Also, he obviously installed a new filter, right?

few3
04-12-2007, 09:48 PM
Instead of a book, ALLDATA http://alldata.com/products/diy/index.html is a pretty good option. They use to sell CD-ROMS that you activated and could use indefinitely.

Canoeyawl
04-12-2007, 11:27 PM
Guaranteed used Volvo parts…
http://http://www.sawvolvo.com/
http://www.sawvolvo.com/3dflagsdotcom_swena_2fawl.gif

Hughman
04-13-2007, 11:30 AM
I'm not convinced the problem lies with the fuel pump. There is a 25A fuse on the left fender that gets corroded and is "the number one cause of Volvo stoppages and tow ins" - this from the paper that comes with the IPD replacement fuse holder. This is a different fuse from the one Donald wrote about. I haven't checked that one yet.

This replacement fuse holder seems to be designed to function in a hazardous environment underwater during a EMT event! I'll replace this and give it a try.

I'm skeptical of the fuel system relay, too (This car has 260K miles on it). I do have a new tank booster pump to replace the one the "mechanic" thought was faulty. This guy made sure I overheard his complaint about "Why don't customers just trust that we know what we're doing" remark.

Classic! :rolleyes:

Hwyl
04-13-2007, 12:40 PM
Hugh, look in the mirror and ask "How would I like this guy for a customer?".

I think I know the answer.

Hughman
04-13-2007, 04:25 PM
Hugh, look in the mirror and ask "How would I like this guy for a customer?".

I think I know the answer.

Are you suggesting I should write blank checks for idiots? :confused:

Hwyl
04-13-2007, 04:30 PM
Writing blank cheques to yourself is fun.

Hughman
04-13-2007, 04:38 PM
:confused:

Hwyl
04-13-2007, 04:44 PM
Are you suggesting I should write blank checks for idiots? :confused:


Writing blank cheques to yourself is fun.

I'm implying in a jocular way that if you had yourself for a customer, you'd be writing checks to yourself (it was you who said the recipient would be an idiot, and that ipso facto is you).

I'm also saying that you're knowledgeable, somewhat of a perfectionist and with the kind of tenacity that can resurrect most things (somewhat of a chicken and egg situation).Which would make yo the toughest customer. Silk purses from pigs ears are an everyday event in the Hughniverse.

British schoolboy odd humour is carrying me away.

Hughman
04-13-2007, 04:48 PM
It's been a weird day. Thanks for the parse.


Silk purses from pigs ears are an everyday event in the Hughniverse.

LOL! sometimes an timely observation can make all too clear...:eek:

Hughman
04-20-2007, 03:50 PM
Thank you, Rick! Haynes is finest kind! :)

WBF at it's best!