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G. Schollmeier
04-04-2007, 12:25 PM
I checked the search thing and there isnít a lot of talk about sliding compound miter saws. For years I have used my table saw and hand saws for boat and carpentry work. It is time to buy a new tool. I expect moderate to heavy use for trim and framing. Like all my tools the limits will be tested. I want to make accurate repeated cuts. I want to bring it to the job. Please share your opinions/recommendations.

Gary :D

Bruce Hooke
04-04-2007, 12:40 PM
There was some good discussion on this thread...http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=3465

Some of it is about 12" saws, but some is about 10" saws...

gary porter
04-04-2007, 01:53 PM
Jim, I was thinking of buying the Bosch. Can you tell me a bit more about why I shouldn't? I only have a fixed Delta chop saw and an old Craftsman Radial that I'd like to get rid of.
Gary

Bruce Hooke
04-04-2007, 02:05 PM
I've got a Bosch 3915 and I am very happy with it. I don't know if this is the model Jim is referring to. I can't think of anything that I'd call a "bell or whistle" on it other than a clamp designed to hold down the wood. I rarely use the clamp but it is detachable so it can be stuffed in a drawer somewhere if it really bugs you. I don't use the saw day after day to cut big pieces of wood, but I have had it for a number of years and hauled it around to various job sites. It was used to cut most of the (solid wood) sheathing for a small house up in Maine, and it is accurate enough to cut neat, clean miter joints for picture frames...

Brahm Thexton
04-04-2007, 02:14 PM
We have the Hitachi C10FSB... We've used it 5 days a week for 2 years, and it still works like new.

Specs
http://www.toolbarn.com/product/hitachi/C10FSB/

StevenBauer
04-04-2007, 02:47 PM
My friend has the Bosch 12" with the cool handle that rotated into several different positions. Until it broke off! :eek: I've had my Dewalt for years, still going strong.

Steven

Nicholas Carey
04-04-2007, 03:19 PM
Don't get the Bosch.Get the Bosch :D if for no other reason than the front mounted controls (see below). I've got a Bosch 5412 (12-ins) and it's great. Oneof the things that sold me (outside of quality) is the handle..if you're left-handed, it's great: safety buttons on both sides and you can rotate the handle to suit. Other features I like...the bevel lock is right up front as is the detent release for when you need to get make a 44-5/8 degree cut.

Hitachi now has a line of SCMS that, thanks to clever design, require zero clearance to the rear of the saw (most SCMS require considerable clearance in back of the saw to accomodate the rails and power unit). If that had been available when I got mine, I would have seriously considered it.

WRT differences between a 10-inch and 12-inch SCMS, they can be boiled down to these:
A 12-inch SCMS is considerably bigger and heavier than a 10-inch. Depending on often you need to hump it around, this might be an important consideration to you.
Most 10-inch SCMS are right at their limit trying to cut stock 4x lumber. If you need to chop 4x stuff on a 10-inch, you might have to make 2 cuts, one from each side -- which means the cut is likely not going to be as neat as that made by a single cut. A 12-inch slider can chop 4x stock w/o breathing hard.
A 12 inch slider can cut slightly wider stock than a 10-inch. My 5412 can do a square cut on a board 4-5/8 x 12 inches in one pass.
12 inch blades are more expensive and hard to find than 10 inch blades.
If the saw or the blade has significant runout, it will be exaggerated on the 12 inch SCMS as compared to the 10-inch SCMS.
A 12 inch SCMS is considerably more expensive than the same manufacturer's 10 inch saw -- the differential in street prices might be more than $100.When I was looking to buy mine and researching sliders was that pros mostly seem to drive Bosch or Makita sliders, with Hitachi and Dewalt playing backup -- which dovetails with my own observations on job sites.

The Journal Of Light Construction (http://www.jlconline.com/) (a trade rag for light construction trades) has a Tools & Equipment Forum (http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16) (trades-only please) that's a good source of information. Ditto for Fine Homebuilding (http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/) -- they run a forum called Breaktime (http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime). Breaktime's "Tools for Homebuilding" section has some good info as well.

The difference in cutting capacity may or may not be a significant factor, depending on your plans for the saw (planning on cutting bit lumber or big crown molding right-side up?)

Regardless of the manufacturer you pick, I'd go for a double-bevel slider, and look for one that can swing past 45 degress on both the vertical and horizontal axes, as in the real world, square things usually aren't :D Makes mitering corner's that aren't 90 degrees much easier.

And if one were to do high-end trim work, it's probably worthwhile spending $$$ and buying a good blade, like the Forrest Chopmaster.

kc8pql
04-04-2007, 03:26 PM
I've had a Bosch 4212L compound miter for a couple of years now. I like it. I use it as a cabinet shop miter saw though, no house framing, and I use a radial arm saw for big and heavy stuff.

Don Z.
04-04-2007, 04:24 PM
Love my Bosch 10". Been slicing through purpleheart with it (8/4) no problems...

KNOCKABOUT
04-04-2007, 05:04 PM
We have the Hitachi C10FSB... We've used it 5 days a week for 2 years, and it still works like new.

Specs
http://www.toolbarn.com/product/hitachi/C10FSB/

Ditto. What he said. The thing is an animal.

merlinron
04-04-2007, 07:14 PM
i've used the Hitatchi C10FSB, the Bosch5412,and the Dewalt 10" at work numerous times. i would rate them in the order i listed them as far as rigidity. the one thing to keep in mind is that no mater which you get, it is imparative above all to use and keep a sharp blade on any of the sliders if you want to get good straight, clean cuts.any of them will wander as soon as you take the slightest bit of edge off a blade. with that in mind, a 10 incher will do all but the thickest work you're going to encounter in most projects, the blades are less expensive to purchase and keep sharp. the 12 inch saws are definately a luxury, but, I.M.H.O., not worth the extra initial and long term costs for the average to advanced woodworker when costs are comming out of your own pocket.

coelacanth2
04-04-2007, 09:45 PM
I picked up the 12"DeWalt at the local Lowes 3 years ago and have no complaints. I'm NOT a professional but felt that I wold probably have he tool for the rest of my life - possibly another 30 years - and wanted the best since the cost will be amortized over a very long period. Besides, it was a tax writeoff.:D It is a better tool than I am a carpenter and makes me look far more competent than I reeally am. It IS a bit on the heavy side, though.

Tom M.
04-04-2007, 10:04 PM
Too many bells and whistles and not enough beef. Take a look at the Hitachi. I had one of those before and it's a good saw.

This has been my experience as well. Well, luckily not mine, but two friends of mine in the trade. The Bosch is neat, but it can't take daily finish carpenter duty. But maybe it'll work fine for boat work.

I've used Hitachi for about 10 or 12 years now.

StevenBauer
04-04-2007, 10:55 PM
It IS a bit on the heavy side, though.


You're not kidding there! I think my saw is around 60 lbs. Sometimes I have to lug that b****** up three flights of stairs. :eek:

I just saw the review in Watercraft magazine about Bosch's new lightweigt mitersaw, the GCM 8S. I wonder if they'll sell it over here, too. Weighs 33 lbs.

http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-uk/modules/oragetblob.dll?db=boptocs&item=advasta.r5.v$m$d$lobvalues&id=1381,20,96919&maxwidth=270&maxheight=270&mime=image/jpeg

Steven

Lew Barrett
04-04-2007, 11:07 PM
I like my Hitachi a great deal, one of the most used tools in my shop. Three years of regular use and no complaints whatsoever. The laser feature is handy as well, and the tool is bulletproof. Heartiest recommendation.

Bruce Hooke
04-05-2007, 12:08 AM
This has been my experience as well. Well, luckily not mine, but two friends of mine in the trade. The Bosch is neat, but it can't take daily finish carpenter duty. But maybe it'll work fine for boat work.

I've used Hitachi for about 10 or 12 years now.

Are you and Jim talking about the Bosch 3915 or this newer one that Nicholas and some others have been talking about that has this rotating handle on the front (Bosch 4410L)? I just can't image what you'd put in the category of "bells and whistles" on the 3915. It is a solidly built saw. I've owned it for a number of years now and I've lugged it to quite a few job sites. No, I don't use it every day, but it is built to take every-day use.

Bosch makes two 10" sliding compound miter saws so you really need to say which one you're talking about. Thanks!

G. Schollmeier
04-05-2007, 03:58 AM
Any comments on the Makita LS1013FL 15 Amp 10-Inch, the reviews are good. Anyone here use one?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GJTDJO/ref=pd_cp_hi_title/103-8318102-5964629?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_r=1HWQRC6Z1YJW780Y2KHJ&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=277661601&pf_rd_i=B0000789HL (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GJTDJO/ref=pd_cp_hi_title/103-8318102-5964629?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_r=1HWQRC6Z1YJW780Y2KHJ&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=277661601&pf_rd_i=B0000789HL)

Gary

Ron Williamson
04-05-2007, 05:32 AM
I've been using my Makita 1013 for 10 years now.
The only complaints I have are regarding the the bevel lock ,bevel detents and the wee bevel gauges.
The lock is hard to reach at the back and bottom of the saw and the handle hangs down so it snags the back edge of the bench.
The bevel 0 deg. detents are mushy so it's hard to to tell where you are.
The lame plastic bevel pointers are hard to set because they squirm as you tighten them and the whole gauge/protractor deal is too small to be read accurately.
On the Bosch the front controls are kinda confusing at first,but I think I could get used to them,especially since it will go well past 45deg.in both directions(50 and 60 IIRC.)
It seems durable but kinda klunky, except for the twistable handle which feels like it will break off any second(I'm a pretty adaptable lefty and don't like it it any position)

The Makita is a light and relatively compact piece of gear and far easier to tote around a jobsite than the Bosch.
R

John B
04-05-2007, 06:02 AM
Electra Beckum. induction motor.. no screaming skull noise like you get off the brush motors.
Go forever.

Nicholas Carey
04-05-2007, 01:50 PM
I'm glad to see we've all reached consensus on th SCMS issue :D :D

Tom M.
04-05-2007, 03:01 PM
Are you and Jim talking about the Bosch 3915 or this newer one that Nicholas and some others have been talking about that has this rotating handle on the front (Bosch 4410L)? I just can't image what you'd put in the category of "bells and whistles" on the 3915. It is a solidly built saw. I've owned it for a number of years now and I've lugged it to quite a few job sites. No, I don't use it every day, but it is built to take every-day use.

Bosch makes two 10" sliding compound miter saws so you really need to say which one you're talking about. Thanks!

I'm talking about the new one. The older one looks sturdy, but I don't know anyone who uses one. I liked the looks of it when it became available, but didn't like the angle detent system. If I recall, it was too difficult to set an angle at 44 and 3/4 degrees, it kept wanting to pop into the detent. Anyone I know who's been an on site finish carpenter for any length of time uses Hitachi or Makita, and of the two, Hitachi gets the most praise. A friends 1 year old Makita LS1013 doesn't have accurate angle detents anymore. Never heard complaint about Hitachi. Granted, my Hitachi barely HAS detents, and I don't use them....I just put the pointer on the number and tighten.

Bruce Hooke
04-05-2007, 03:21 PM
There is a very easy system for overriding the detent system on the Bosch 3915. There is a little clip that you flip into place and then the detents are taken completely out of the picture. I do like to have good detents, especially at zero degrees. On a 10" wide board (cut at 90 degrees) a difference of 0.1 degree means being off by 1/64" at the end of the cut, which is enough to matter in many situations, and 0.1 degree is tough to judge based on the pointer.

katiedobe
04-05-2007, 04:57 PM
Still using the 8-1/2" Hitachi for fine work and framing lumber.
I have a 12" radial for the large hardwoods.
Love the Hitachi.

Ron Williamson
04-05-2007, 05:04 PM
The angle detents on my saw loosened up after a long while.
If you turn the saw up on its back,there are four or so screws that hold the detent rod in place,it was actually these screws that were loose.
Tightened up,it's like new.
R

Peter Malcolm Jardine
04-05-2007, 05:58 PM
I have a Makita LS1013. I use it almost everyday in my work. It lives in the back of my truck most of the time... It's been a great saw, dead accurate, the stock blade is excellent. It has been rated as one of the top five sliders for a long time. I've had mine three years.

That said, there are a lot of good ones now... I have heard the bosch is good, and the dewalt too.

Stiletto
04-05-2007, 06:13 PM
I've had my German made Elektra Beckum for around 18 years, it is still accurate and going well. Having a brushless motor means there is next to nothing to wear out. The bearings seem fine.

If I were to replace it I would seriously consider the new Hitachi that has their new rail system that takes up less room at the rear of the saw.

G. Schollmeier
04-06-2007, 04:05 PM
I bought the Makita LS1013FL, thank you for the input. For my budget I think I’ll be happy.

Gary :D