pouring a keel

[amess]

I don't want to!
Learning woodworking methods to build a boat is one thing... Can anyone help locate a foundry in the midwest (Chicago to Okla City) for a mid-missouri builder?
I know, learn to do it yourself!
I'd rather pay for this service and keep on building.

THANKS

[Ken Hutchins]

Lead or iron? How big? Are you going to make the pattern? This info is needed to look for a foundry, then Google foundries, mo.

[Bob Cleek]

Check out Mars Metals. They pour keels. However, if you are building a relatively small boat (under 30'), and the shape of the ballast keel isn't complicated (no fin bulbs!), you will save a HUGE amount of money doing it yourself. It is not hard. Check the search thingy. If you are going to make your own pattern or mold, which is another huge savings, you may as well just pour it yourself. And, it's fun!

[Gerald]

Bought a 38' wood sailboat a while back that had rotted from the top down. One reason for buying the boat was to salvage the lead. The keel was manufactured using 1/2" steel plate and then pored full of lead. The person that formed the steel part had done a nice job. The boat was 27 years old and looked to have been in the water most of the time. I have used some of the 1/2" plate from the old keel and although pitted it is still in pretty good shape.
Just another option.
Gerald

[Don Kurylko]

What size and weight of keel do you need to cast? If it’s not huge, consider doing it yourself. I was very intimidated by the prospect of pouring a 5600 lb. lead keel for my cutter, but in the end it was surprisingly easy to do and I saved a huge pile of cash too. The actual pour only took 4 hours and went without a hitch. The hardest part was lugging all that lead around. Thank God for stalwart friends and a large pack of cold brewskies waiting in the the fridge!

Actually, the most time consuming elements of the project were making the mould, setting up the melting tub and then cleaning up and moving the casting into the shop to fit under the hull. The pour itself was actually the fun part. Everything else was the usual grunt and grind of boat building.

As for health issues associated with working with lead (apart from the obvious hazards of heat and flame) it seems there were none. I had my doctor run some blood tests for me a few weeks after pouring and fairing the keel and they all turned out normal. Go figure!

I took the usual precautions of using gloves, respirator, etc. But I’m a bit of a cowboy and tend to be a tad cavalier about my personal safety. So, for me at least, it seems I would have to eat the stuff to suffer any ill effects. Incidentally, there is a large lead smelter near here and the guys I know that have worked there swear that drinking lots of milk helps clear the blood stream of lead. Don’t know about the lungs.

I guess if there is a drawback to doing it yourself, it is the actual time it takes to plan and execute the whole project. If you have never done it before, there is a lot to learn and prepare for. But then, what isn’t when it comes to building boats? I’m glad I did it though, even if just for the experience.

[PeterSibley]

If you really don't want to do it yourself at least make the pattern yourself, that will be a considerable saving of patternmakers wages.The foundry will give you their requirements and there is a good explanation in Bud McIntosh's book "Building a Wooden Boat " available through WB ( I think).

Good Luck.

[amess]

Thanks for the input guys... I knew you'd all say git 'r done!
I am building the Glen-L Amigo - 22 foot. Balast is either lead or iron 1775 pounds.
I was going to make the pattern using 1-inch insulating styrofoam to shape first. It's laying around here and would be easy to shape. Then send pattern to foundry. (that was suggested)
This is my first boat (or any wood project for that matter) and teaching this old dog new tricks hasn't been easy.

[wyndham]

Come on go for it! There is something primal and invigorating about fire, molten metal, cold beer, the occasinal drop of sweat that hits the molten lead and splatters burning shrapnel around the pour.
There are a lot of posts about how to and not to cast lead. It's not difficult and it's very satisfying when it's all said and done.

[amess]

WHAT IF?
The local steel fabricator suggested he build a keel for me from 1" plate steel... stacked like pancakes, or planking, one atop the other
They could be installed on the boat easier because the weight would be divided into 12 layers of steel and then epoxied, bolted in place...
WHAT'S WRONG with his idea? Dead weight is dead weight. And if I needed more or less the plates could be added/subtracted.
WIll it work?

[RodB]

Many boats have been built with iron as ballast, that is "iron" not steel...and usually cast just like lead. I think its mostly about the size of the boat, budget and how much ballast is needed. I don't know about steel plate...it sure would require protection.

Sam Crocker designed his three Presto boats (36 feet LOD) with long iron keels with a slit in the middle for the centerboard. These boats had lots of protection with the long iron keel running the majority of the length of the hull...
RB

[ 06-15-2005, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[Gerald]

Well, hell yes that will work. We are all pretty sure you know the difference in weight per cubic foot of lead and per cubic foot of steel and you are willing to live with the extra volume? If you could flame spray the plates with zinc it would be a good thing. You need to shot blast the plates before the zinc but how much could all that cost? In the end, in my opinion, what you will have, amess, is a mess.
Gerald

[Gary E]

Oh it will work, but before you do that ask the fellow if he is going to provide the flame cut edges on an angle to fair them or just a simple as most likely 90 degree torch burn.

To get and idea what it might look like go get 2 or 3 decks of cards, give them to the dog for a good chewing so the edges look like ... well.. ragged...

Now stack them not even like this E
and add the next deck of like this E
now the next layer like close to E

If this comes out the way I want it to the E's sticking out represent a chewed up side of each of the flame cut plates.

If your gona grind them smooth, what grinding weels do you buy, I want to buy stock in that company, ditto for the epoxy company.

Cast it mon, it aint rocket science..

[htom]

I suppose you could cut the slabs of steel so that they were on the "inside edge" of the faired keel, drill the slabs so that you could fasten epoxy to them, drill and tap them so that you could bolt them together, and then cover the whole with epoxy and fill and fiberglass and then fair it.

Pouring would be a LOT easier. And faster. And cheaper. And probably more fun!

[StevenBauer]

I've seen this done and it was A rusty MESS. It really looked bad, I'm sure it affected the resale value. I mean, if the builder did that, what else did he do wrong?

Steven

[Bob Cleek]

Stacked mild steel plates for a keel? It never ceases to amaze me that folks will ignore hundreds of years of technological evolution in a tried and true method because they think they have a better idea. Okay, here's what happens to your stacked steel plates: over time, they rust. I don't care how much goo you slather on them, eventually, they will rust. When they rust, they enlarge. When they enlarge, your "stacked deck of cards" turns into something like a loaf of stacked slices of bread. The rust scale rips the whole think apart, your keel bolts tear out of the keel, and your boat sinks. None of this, of course, says anything about what such a harebrained idea will do to the resale value of the boat. You will be putting hours and hours of your life into building a boat. There's no reason not to do it right.

[Billy Bones]

Attaboy Bob.

Don't try to reinvent the wheel. Cast it yourself or have it done.

[George Roberts]

amess ---

If you decide to pour your own keel ...

If the lead gets too hot, much more of the lead gets into the air, your grass, your lungs...

Be careful.