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View Full Version : Best Small Diesel Manufacturer?



Stu Fyfe
03-27-2007, 07:35 AM
Who do you feel makes the best small diesel engine? Yanmar, Westerbeke, Kubota, Farymann, Nanni, Universal? If you were gonna buy a single cylinder for your boat, who would you go with? I already made a decision for a replacement in my boat. I just want to see what others think.

S/V Laura Ellen
03-27-2007, 07:40 AM
I got a Bukh saildrive in my 25' boat. It's a great combination for the situation. Very small and compact. Vertical shaft horizontal cylinder.
The best engine in that case was one that would fit.

Gresham CA
03-27-2007, 08:07 AM
The Yanmar single that I have vibrates and is loud. I can't speak for the others. If I had to repower I would opt for one of the twins just for that reason.

MarkC
03-27-2007, 08:34 AM
If you were gonna buy a single cylinder for your boat, who would you go with?

Farymann - brand new motors, small, simple, modern, EPA compliant, representatives and services centers all over the east and west coasts usa (good availability of parts - probably at every building-machine rental center), 11,000 engines made per year, owned by Americans (briggs&stratton) and made by Germans.

Used by Fisher/Panda for their generators.

Thad Van Gilder
03-27-2007, 08:41 AM
either volvo or sabb or lister

Stiletto
03-27-2007, 04:03 PM
The Kubota range is used ase the base engine for several marine manufacturers, Nanni, Beta, etc.I think.
The base engines are in use around the world in a myriad of applications.

paladin
03-27-2007, 04:37 PM
and non of the damned stinkin' things is heavy enough for an anchor....

Gulfcoastbreeze
03-27-2007, 04:55 PM
Yanmar seems to do no wrong, from the guys I talk to. Maybe I'm mistaken, but doesn't Westerbeke actually use Yanmar engines in their gensets, and maybe for propulsion units too?

I never seem to hear good things about FP.

GCB

Tonyr
03-27-2007, 08:16 PM
Yanmar had a couple of models of Diesel outboard engines a few years back (27 and 35 h.p. from memory), but they do not seem to be offered anymore.

Anyone know what happened? How did they compare to a modern fuel injected gasoline 4-stroke?

Tony.

Nanoose
03-27-2007, 08:28 PM
Nanoose has a single cylinder diesel Volvo...."putt, putt, putt's" along very nicely.

Had a Yanmar in the previous boat - about 20 horse - excellent.

Stu Fyfe
03-27-2007, 08:49 PM
Thanks for all your input. I opted for a Yanmar 1GM10 to replace my K34 Farymann. I needed 10hp or less. The K34 was 5.5hp. So after two Farymanns over the past 25 years, Redwing is getting a nice new Yanmar.

A Farymann 18w would have fit, but I've had it with their obscurity. When I needed to hire a mechanic to do work beyond my limits, the look on the mechanics face and the inevitable "Never seen anything like this before" comment, was not very assuring. Handbook in German required me to use a German-English dictionary. Parts were only available out of state and VERY expensive.

The Westerbeke 11A had too big a flywheel to fit on the engine bed stringers. Otherwise I might have gone with it. When Phil Bolger designed Redwing, he did so with a Westerbeke Pilot in mind. Unfortunately they don't make them anymore. Two cylinders were out because I like the manual cranking ability. I've had dead batteries before and I like the manual option.
I brought my shopping list to the Maine Boatbuilders Show two weeks ago and thanks to the snowstorm, I was able to have extended conversations with the Westerbeke, Yanmar and Nanni sales reps. Gowen Marine in Portland offered a Show Special and knocked a considerable amount off the list price. The Westerbeke sales rep from Hansen Marine was very helpful, but the Yanmar fit just right and the deal was too good to pass up. Finding a single cylinder diesel that fits isn't as easy as it use to be. The new EPA regs and the changing boat market has eliminated many of the previous options.
So, it's on to the installation!

paladin
03-27-2007, 08:50 PM
I have seen an overwhelming number of Beta and a few less Nanni diesels showing up...more and more the last 4-5 years, and I had a yanmar...but if I build another it will have a Beta unit installed.

Stiletto
03-27-2007, 10:14 PM
Beta seems to get very good reviews in the English mags and forums.

Woxbox
03-27-2007, 10:29 PM
We have a couple of Yanmars in our catamaran with about 4,500 hours on each of them and are very pleased. But to me, the main thing is finding parts no matter where you wind up (because no matter where you go, there you are, right?) and for that, I understand Yanmar is tops. Haven't needed more than a couple of impellers, but Yanmar stuff seems to be everywhere.

MarkC
03-28-2007, 02:36 AM
A Farymann 18w would have fit, but I've had it with their obscurity. When I needed to hire a mechanic to do work beyond my limits, the look on the mechanics face and the inevitable "Never seen anything like this before" comment, was not very assuring. Handbook in German required me to use a German-English dictionary. Parts were only available out of state and VERY expensive.


That is sad. I believe for the newer model range this has changed. The new 18W has the handbook in English. Perhaps for the older K34 parts were hard to find. I dont think that is the case with the newer models.

Westerbeke also use farymann for their generators as do Fisher-Panda.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
03-28-2007, 04:33 AM
One point about the Yanmar IGM10 - be very careful about the oil pipes under the SW circulating pump. It is very easy to miss a drip from the SW circ. pump, the steeloil pipes corrode and suddenly you need a new engine!

I'd have to add that the impeller is not the easiest to get at, either.

Don't bother with the optional hand starting.

And it vibrates a lot. But otherwise, an excellent little engine.

Paul Fitzgerald
03-28-2007, 06:39 AM
The other thing to watch with the GM series Yanmars is the cooling water bypasses the block before the thermostat opens, and goes straight to the exhaust.
If the thermostat is blocked you still see cooling water coming out of the exhaust while the engine is cooking inside.
If you leave out the thermostat (not recommended) be sure to block the bypass so coolant goes through the block before it goes to the exhaust.
I am a big Yanmar fan, wouldn't use anything else.

MarkC
04-01-2007, 02:52 PM
Stu - your k34 farymann
arts were only available out of state and VERY expensive

the west-coast distributer says on their site that the k34 is dis-continued - they offer a full rebuild kit (which would be expensive - new bore, pistons and small end) - but they were offering a trade-in of $1500 on old farymann generators so your engine might be worth some money.

Interestingly - westerbeke use the farymann in their generator (according to the farymann site) - perhaps your westebeke single it is a fary. after all?

Edit: - sorry I miss-read - you have bought a Yanmar single - maybe that is also a re-badged farymann :)

Stu Fyfe
04-01-2007, 07:49 PM
Thanks Mark. I'll give them a call.

MarkC
02-20-2008, 08:40 AM
The Farymann is being used in the new bukh DV7 ME (7ps) - marinised by bukh (Aabenraa Motorfabrik in denmark). It was launched at the Boot Düsseldorf, the biggest marine show in Germany, in Feb 2008.

The farry 7hp is also being marinised by Alpa in holland to make the ALLPA MINI SF-7 http://www.allpa.nl/pdf/katalog/368_nl.pdf

michigangeorge
02-20-2008, 04:16 PM
Westerbeke= smooth
I have a brand new 10 year old 12hp just waiting for a boat to put her in!

soba
02-20-2008, 04:56 PM
There is a lot of crossover with the Bukh/Farymann/Westerbeke/Universal brands.

Bukh is sold as Westerbeke in NA. Bukh and Universal are in fact the same company. Farymann supplies engines for Bukh gensets, but all of these engines are actually manufactured by Steyr, which is a subsidiary of Daimler. Steyr-Puch is their military vehicle arm, Steyr is their weapons arm.

Are the parts interchangable? Sometimes.

I deal with the Steyr rep sometimes, and he unravelled the intricacies of the relationships between these companies. I misremember exactly who supplied who with what when, but you get the idea...

Oh, and Bukh, Farymann, and Universal use some Yanmar blocks. And Yanmar uses some Kubota blocks. Not to mention Bukh using some parts from MAN. Which is another company partially owned by Daimler. Hino uses Kubota parts...it goes on and on.

For what its worth, I have an old Farymann A10 as well as a Westerbeke/Bukh Pilot 10, and a Lycoming 12 (made by Bernard in France) as well. The Bukh is the smoothest and starts the best. I like the red better than the ugly yellow demon, too. It's too hard to get parts to run the Lycoming on the boat ( I like it, though) so it runs my shop generator. I have an old Petter hit and miss for when the power goes out....

The Yanmar is holding the mooring down...I played with it too much (propane injected it) and the lower end went. I gotta stop this hot rod s**t....:-)

MarkC
02-22-2008, 02:52 PM
Soba - not for the small 7hp bukh/farymann - according to the farymann web site the Bukh DV7 ME is the Farymann 18W (water cooled). This motor is used in many gensets - in this (bukh) instance it is used for marine propulsion.

"Greaves -Farymann" (new name) claim the 18W and the other motors are all
da wir die gesamte Produktionskette in unserem Haus vereinen or 'everything is done in-house' - so I don't think the purchasing from Styer is ongoing - but I could be wrong.


This (Farymann 18W):

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8dc03b3127cceb665feb2658e00000025100Aas2zJs2buG PA


to this Bukh DV7 ME:

http://www.bukh.dk/produkter/DV7_ME.pdf

Aabenraa Motorfabrik - they paint it red (alloy block) and mate it to their own marine gear system.

or the Dutch version with a TMC40 gearing:

http://www.allpa.nl/pdf/katalog/368_nl.pdf


And is probably much better than ending up with this sad Yanmar 12hp:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8dc03b3127cceb665febc658000000026100Aas2zJs2buG PA

Jay Greer
02-22-2008, 04:21 PM
My H28 "Bright Star" came equipped with a two cylinder twelve hp. Universal diesel. The engine is smooth, easy to start, almost vibrationless, and produces no objectionable odor.
Jay

Chris Gerkin
02-22-2008, 04:33 PM
I went with a new Bukh DV7 for weight and durability.

soba
02-23-2008, 07:00 PM
Bukh DV7 is a Steyr 00.30002.090 block, according to the Steyr rep.

He says that as far as smaller diesels go, it is cheaper for manufacturers to source from Steyr than to make castings in-house. That being said, the engines are built to spec, not from off-the-shelf parts. So a Bukh DV7 is a Bukh.

However, the company name is Steyr-Bukh. The website is in finnish...I can't read that.

There is also a Steyr-Puch, which I suspect is the same company. They were famous for the Haflingers and Pinzgauers. Steyr-Daimler-Puch as it is now known is owned by Military giant General Dynamics (manufacturer of the original Humvee) and makes mostly Ulan tanks, Pandur turreted armour, etc.

The guy I know sells (sigh) guns and precision metal manufacturing (custom stuff.)

Like I said, it's a big mess of cross pollenation....

heimlaga
02-24-2008, 12:17 AM
Soba
What is the adress to this website you refer to?

I am able to read Finnish somewhat, even though I am from the Swedish speaking part of Finland.

MarkC
02-24-2008, 02:06 PM
Bukh DV7 is a Steyr 00.30002.090 block, according to the Steyr rep.

He says that as far as smaller diesels go, it is cheaper for manufacturers to source from Steyr than to make castings in-house. That being said, the engines are built to spec, not from off-the-shelf parts. So a Bukh DV7 is a Bukh.


Thanks for the information.

I have emailed Farymann and asked what the relationships are. I assume Farymann source a steyr block and I assume that they assemble a motor.

I understand what you mean by a 'built-to-spec' motor becomes 'another brand of motor' so to speak. Farymann say so much on their web-site. If Farymann marinise it for Buhk or Alpa? I dont know. The DV7 ME and the Alpa have the same specs but a different marine gear system.

I hope I find out more.

MarkC
02-25-2008, 04:19 AM
Farymann emailed me back this morning.


first of all, we thank you for your mail of this morning which we will answer with
pleasure.

Generally, Farymann doesn`t offer marine engine of 18W directly so that`s right
for dealing through Allpa or Bukh regarding for a new engine propulsion fitted
with mountings and transmission.

Bukh DV7 ME is a pure Farymann engine marinised by Farymann himself
and without of any purchasing from Styer !

Allpa is a pure Farymann engine but without of engine mountings and transmission
so this will be fitted from Allpa directly.

If there is any question more, please feel free to contact me again.

Best Regards

Greaves Farymann Diesel GmbH