Nug needs help

[nutmeg2go]

I posted this before as part of another thread but didn't get any responses. I'll try again.

I recently purchased a 20 year old lapstrake, fasten with copper rivets, which has been varnished inside and out, and has green copper paint below the water line. The wood (tamarack) has turned very dark over the years, due to UV effects on the varnish, I think.

I planned to strip the boat (heat gun and scraper) and then refinish. A friend suggested using a penetrating finish (DAK?). I haven't seen much mention of this product on the forum.

I'm new at this, and open to suggestions on how to proceed. Advice regarding technique, products, and mistakes to be avoided very welcome.

Thanks

[NormMessinger]

Well, now, not that I am quailfied to answer your question but maybe I can get something started.

To many on the forum the penetrating part of the finish would be CPES followed by a high quality finish of your choice. I just spent the day with a friend who finished the inside of his Calidonia Yawl with Deks Olje. #1 peneterates #2 puts on the shine. It is a beauty.

What ever. Good luck.

--Norm

[nutmeg2go]

Thanks, Norm. At least I now know that it is Deks and not Daks. Isn't progress wonderful?

[Rich VanValkenburg]

Sorry to put down a product, but I've used Deks and the stuff wasn't meant for any area of a boat where you expect wear. I think these guys that use it on their topsides aren't sling-launched. One hour in the slings took 5 coats of Deks (including all the #1) clean off and past the stain. I've got an old unopened quart, ya want it?

Rich

[PugetSound]

Deks ("Deks Olje" is the commercial name) is basically a combination of hard drying oil and varnish resins. The big advantage of Deks is that it is easier to apply than varnish. Actually, that seems to be its only real advantage. Some like it and some don't. In any case, you don't want to use Deks anywhere where you wouldn't want to use varnish. Durability wise, it has better durability than oil finishes and mabey not as much as varnish.

As far as being a penetrating finish, well most any varnish will penetrate about as much as Deks (that is to say some but not much). CPES is a whole different kind of stuff (Clear Penetrating Epoxy System is what I think CPES stands for) and has a good reputation. Personally, I would opt for wooding the boat and then varnishing it (assuming the boat won't be left out in the sun). Use those cheap foam brushes to do the varnish job and you will save yourself alot of grief in the cleanup department.

[ 06-30-2002, 05:27 AM: Message edited by: PugetSound ]

[Concordia..41]

Mistakes - you can worry too much and try to hard. You always want to address anything structural or anything that may contribute to future damage, but try not to get hung up on the cosmetic stuff.

When I first started dismanteling the interior on Sarah, I was dismayed when I removed something and there was dramatically lighter wood underneath. My first thought - "I gotta get this all light" - WRONG. That's her patina. That's her beautiful dress of age. It's how a 45 year old boat is supposed to look. Wood isn't monochrome. If you want one color, call Kirby's (paint company).

I think you mentioned dark spots around the rivets in another thread. If it's just a little discoloration it could be be addressed if you want to take the time. To keep my high standing in the Obsessive Compusive Association, I bleached and re-stained 1200+ screw holed in Sarah's ceiling boards. But, that also saved having to measure, plane, re-fit and refinish a zillion linear feet of wood.

Always do your best, but keep in mind that there should be signs of age and wear. There's folks out there paying extra for "patina." For now, get her fit, get her in the water, enjoy her, and a couple of winters from now go back and readdress the truly cosmetic stuff.

Happy refinishing!

[nutmeg2go]

Thanks. I have two weeks around home before I take the boat up to her home in Penobscot Bay. The kids are going to be off a soccer camp and my school year is finished, so I have some time to spend. While not prone to worry or obsessive rumination (or compulsive acts), I do want to do a good job.

Thanks for the direction.

[Art Read]

To my mind, the advantage of Deks Olja on the interior surfaces of a semi-open boat is that come re-finishing time, you won't be playing "dentist", sanding, scraping and picking tired, old varnish out of all those nooks and crannies in there. You're gonna know ALL about that once you get finished "stripping" that varnished interior. A good scrubbing and a light sanding are all it should take to "prep" Deks Olja finish as long as you don't wait so long that the wood weathers as the Deks wears away. A traditional "boat sauce" of turps or kerosene with linseed oil is a similar approach, but in my experience, Deks won't pick up as much grime, or darken the wood, as quickly as the boat sauce does. (Won't smell as good either though...) That being said, it WON'T protect the wood from dings as well as paint or varnish, you'll have to commit to more frequent, (though much less laborous) mainainence and over time, the wood WILL darken and discolor somewhat.

If you do want to varnish the interior, CPES first will provide a great sealer coat to make that varnish go on faster and easier and also last longer, and it won't make refinishing when the time comes any more difficult. But you can't use it if you want an oil finish like Deks instead. The oil won't soak through it.

Personaly, I'm hoping the "patina" that is sure to develop on my own boat's Deks Olja interior will make a nice contrast with the shiny varnish and paint work I'll maintain on the exterior. If not, I'll probably just paint it when it looks too "grubby". It's your boat and a varnished interior with all that beautiful structure highlighted is a magnificent sight. As for me, I'll save my obsessive/compulsive tendancies for the Mahogany transom, covering boards, cockpit seats and coaming and for the Sitka spars. If I ever build a nice little lapstrake tender someday, well....

[nutmeg2go]

What I gather from the above discussion is that it is Kosher to use CPES on lapstrake construction if it it taken down to bare wood. Is this correct?

Is the CPES applied both inside and out, or just to the exterior?

Any recommendations on product (by name)?

Quick responses are appreciated. I'm starting in ernest tomorrow.

Thanks

[NormMessinger]

CPES on bare wood under any brand of your choice, inside or out.

--Norm

[Art Read]

Bare wood, (or as bare as you can get it...) Inside OR out, or both, before varnish or paint, (within a day or two...) but not under "oil" or stains.

[Concordia..41]

CPES = Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer by Smith and Company.

Smith & Co.
5100 Channel Avenue
Richmond, CA 94804
1-800-234-0330

It should be applied to any bare wood, inside or out prior to varnishing or painting (NOT OILING). The CPES acts as: 1) a sealer and 2) a chemical binder between the varnish or paint and the wood itself.

Bare wood = CPES and don't set fire to anything should be two of your most basic rules. ;)

- M

[ 07-02-2002, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Concordia..41 ]