Airbus380 lands in LA

[LeeG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPitjFYt3uM

tooooo big

[David Tabor (sailordave)]

Yeah, and wake turbulence separation is 10 MIT versus 5 miles for the rest of the Heavies... (747, DC10, MD11, A340, etc...)

And I can only imagine what the wingtip vortices would feel like...

Where I used to frostbite just south of DCA (National airport) if they were landing north the vortices would upend a Laser if they caught you unawares...but if you played them right you could get quite a boost and blow by some other boats!

[Paul Pless]

No airline from the United States has comitted to ordering it yet. The reviews I've read and heard say that business travelers are unlikely to care much for it. It doesn't fit any existing airport without extensive modifications to the runways, ramps, and terminals.

Could it be a dud???

[GregW]

I read somewhere that they need to sell 100 to break even. I think they currently have 156 orders.
The US airports that will have scheduled service for the A380 have already made the modifications required, one of the reasons for the visit was to see if the modifications work.
Scheduled service will start between Los Angeles and Asia ( I think Singapore) this October, when Singapore Airlines takes the first delivery.

[S.V. Airlie]

I'm not normally up late at night but on the Tonight's Show.. The best joke I heard regarding the airbus was that it has 21 Starbucks shops on board.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I believe that it is aimed mainly at the Asian market, which has very high densities over fairly long distances between hub airports.

It will be a winner on say, HK/Singapore, which is a four hour flight between two major hubs. These airports are re-spacing gates to accomodate it.

[martin schulz]

Out of interest.

How is Boeing doing with their mass-transportation plane?

[Mrleft8]

A few other problems...... The board/disembark time is outrageous even with 2 jetways.
Customs and immigration don't want to even SEE that thing, much less work the crowd when it lands. Apparently they're requesting that it only be scheduled for "dead time" landings, which business travellers won't go for. Business class is the target customer.
spare parts....

[martin schulz]

A few other problems...... The board/disembark time is outrageous even with 2 jetways.
Customs and immigration don't want to even SEE that thing, much less work the crowd when it lands. Apparently they're requesting that it only be scheduled for "dead time" landings, which business travellers won't go for. Business class is the target customer.
spare parts....


Probably a lot of truth there, but lets not forget that some concerns are part of a protectionism policy to help out Boeing.

[Mrleft8]

Probably a lot of truth there, but lets not forget that some concerns are part of a protectionism policy to help out Boeing.
Actually...These are Virgin Atlantic Airways/British customs concerns....Not U.S.

[Taylor Tarvin]

The original breakeven point for the A 380 was 270 aircraft. Last October Airbus revised that to 470 aircraft. There are currently 159 orders for the passenger version and 0 for the cargo version since UPS postponed their order. As far as customs and immigration is concerned it doesn't matter if you get one A380 or two A340s, it will still be painful.

[Mrleft8]

But if you get 1 A-380, and 2 A-340s......

[Tar Devil]

Russians oughta put windows and seats in this thing...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/AN225down.jpg

http://membres.lycos.fr/airbus/747-v-380.jpg

[Taylor Tarvin]

Phil, I saw the AN225 parked next to a C-5 in OKC some years back. Made the C-5 look quite small.

[brad9798]

I don't know about the rest of you ... but can you imagine waiting for your baggage with 800 other passengers?

It's bad enough with 150 folks on board ...

[S.V. Airlie]

And you expect them to have your luggage? :eek:

Didn't I read somewhere that something like 4 billion pieces of luggage were lost or misplaced last year? I say 4 billion as I was shocked at the amount and I filed it away. Probably included a lot of small stuff though.
And no, I do not have the FACTs at my immediate disposal. Off the cuff. but.. Even if I am wrong at the exact amount of luggage lost/stolen/misplaced, it was a heck of a lot of luggage.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

That's the fault of the airport, not the fault of the plane!

Singapore Airport, which is not what I would call a small one, and which is rather positive about the A-380, guarantees that you will be out of the building, with your checked bags, inside 20 minutes. And I always have been.

[S.V. Airlie]

True Andrew but the bigger the plane, the more people. The more people the more baggage..The more baggage the greater the chance of it being lost etc...etc..etc..
No, not the fault of the plane per se.. How about the fault of the system?

[Tar Devil]

Phil, I saw the AN225 parked next to a C-5 in OKC some years back. Made the C-5 look quite small.

I think a US freight operator either owns or leases that beast now. There's several recent videos of it in YouTube.

[martin schulz]

Antonov issue.

A few years ago some politicians suggested that the german military should save money and buy Antonov. Due to blasted lobby work the government cancelled all talks and decided to use the A380 for transportation in the future.

[TimH]

Looks like a terrorist target to me.

[Taylor Tarvin]

Phil, I know that Heavylift out of the UK leases the AN125 and 225, maybe a US operator also. Martin, I thought the GAF was going with the EADS/Airbus M400 like most of the rest of the EU thats in NATO?

[Rick Starr]

I don't know about the rest of you ... but can you imagine waiting for your baggage with 800 other passengers?

It's bad enough with 150 folks on board ...

Utterly irrelevant.

The luggage of those passengers is born to regional airports via various commuter carriers while they are blissfully snoring their way across the pacific en masse.

[Cec]

http://www.planestv.com/vidclips/an225.wmv

AN225 in flight and landing. Look at the flat trajectory on touchdown.

[LeeG]

does the an225 have a pressurized cargo space?

[Taylor Tarvin]

LeeG, yes

[Tar Devil]

Pretty responsive for such a monsterous machine.

Just how many tires does that thing have?

[brad9798]

Rick Starr-

I was being funny! :)

[Lucky Luke]

I don't know about the rest of you ... but can you imagine waiting for your baggage with 800 other passengers?

It's bad enough with 150 folks on board ...

...and can you imagine waiting with 800 passengers...from 80 ten seaters? THAT would be a mess :rolleyes:

[oldsub86]

I think the local paper said, 322,000 liters to fill the fuel tanks. No wonder the world is short of oil.

Randy

[George.]

Do I detect some American envy at not being # 1 here? :D

[TimH]

Do I detect some American envy at not being # 1 here? :D


Boeing is #1 :D

Airbus is #2 ... even with their government subsidies.

[LeeG]

http://www.planestv.com/vidclips/an225.wmv

AN225 in flight and landing. Look at the flat trajectory on touchdown.


holy crap

[High C]

...Look at the flat trajectory on touchdown.

Looks way too flat to me. I half expected to see that little nose gear break off. :eek:

Even the big planes that you "fly onto the ground" usually call for a decent amount of flair.

[Bob Adams]

If its not Boeing, I ain't going.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Big, spectacular projects like the A-380 always generate a lot of backchat. What we know for sure is that the plane will be late, and that some orders were cancelled in consequence. I'll be perfectly happy to fly in it once it is in service, but it won't have the same impact that the 747 did.

[Hwyl]

Do I detect some American envy at not being # 1 here? :D

That's what I was going to post too George. With the exception of Rick Starr, every objection has been from someone in the U.S.

Most objections are amazingly trite.

Welcome to the xenophobic boat forum.

[George.]

Boeing is #1 :D

Airbus is #2 ... even with their government subsidies.

I thought so... :D

And Embraer is #3, even with the burden of being based in a misgoverned and overtaxed subtropical land.

At for subsidies: would Boeing still be #1 without the military contracts and their $8000 hammers? ;)

[martin schulz]

Boeing is #1 :D

"Chicago-based Boeing and Airbus, which is owned by the European aerospace company EADS and the U.K.'s BAE Systems PLC, compete in a wide range of civilian and military aircraft markets. Airbus has over the past decade supplanted Boeing as the world's biggest aircraft manufacturer, delivering more planes than Boeing for the first time last year and will do so again in 2005."



Airbus is #2 ... even with their government subsidies.

"Boeing has long been frustrated that France-based Airbus has continued to get government money to help it develop new planes such as the A380, even though it has become Boeing's commercial equal.

The European Union, in its counter complaint with the WTO, seized on what it says are indirect subsidies to Boeing, including tax breaks of more than $3 billion that Washington state has promised Boeing to build its planned 7E7 jetliner in Everett, Wash."


Lets not be naive. Both governments are heavily protecting their aircraft industry, which is probably ok, because the governments are therby protecting jobs.

The whole article:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/10/6/140642.shtml

[Paul Pless]

That's what I was going to post too George. With the exception of Rick Starr, every objection has been from someone in the U.S.

Most objections are amazingly trite.

Welcome to the xenophobic boat forum.

Jesus Christ, can't win fer losing, can we. That's a lamed assed post.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

It seems to me that the civil aviation business and the industry that builds planes for it have been awash with subsidy of one sort and another since they both began!

Early airlines were encouraged by "mail contracts" which were in effect a subsidy - nothing new there, of course - early steamship lines were encouraged with the same device.

The plane makers have been able to benefit both from the mail subsidy to the airlines and from direct subsidies in the form of weapons procurement contracts.

The aero engine builders, likewise.

I have been a happy and contented passenger aboard the fine aircraft made by Messrs Boeing, Airbus and Embraer and indeed Bombardier, propelled by GE, PW and RR, and I expect that I will carry on being one.:)

[Rick Starr]

Rick Starr-

I was being funny! :)

So as I! or attempting to be anyway.

We've had a rash of luggage misdirection here--visitors from philadelphia missing their swimming trunks because their bags went, in one case, to Belgium before arriving here midway through their vacation.

I know some folks loathe the smiley things and I've tried to keep them to a minimum, but I think people often mistake my efforts at humor for something serious. On the spectrum between Dingo (:o :) :p ;) :D ) and Newt (..............) best err toward Dingo, I guess, to minimize unintended offense. ;)

[BrianW]

The European Union, in its counter complaint with the WTO, seized on what it says are indirect subsidies to Boeing, including tax breaks of more than $3 billion that Washington state has promised Boeing to build its planned 7E7 jetliner in Everett, Wash."

Well, Washington 'State' is just that, a 'state.' It's not the federal government. I'm not sure if there is an equivalent to that in France/Germany, and I hardly care, as a state imposed tax has no bearing on international competition.

[Hwyl]

Ummm, Brian. The airbus is built by the European Union, the European Union consists of member countries, which are in fact "states".

[Hwyl]

Jesus Christ, can't win fer losing, can we. That's a lamed assed post.



I was trying to aspire to something of gravity like this

f it not Boeing, I ain't going.

[BrianW]

Ummm, Brian. The airbus is built by the European Union, the European Union consists of member countries, which are in fact "states".

Very interesting point!

[LeeG]

big airplanes disturb me, I don't see how the 747 flies either. Nothing nationalistic about it. Something that big should be floating on the water.

[Phillip Allen]

Looks like they've arranged to have first class arrive at the site of the crash ahead of the pilot

[Bob Adams]

I have not ben a fan of Airbus since one of their planes was making a low pass at an airshow.The pilot tried to pull up, but the computer decided he really must have wanted to land. And land it did, in the forest.

[Rick Tyler]

Aren't there only a handful of AN225s in the world? Like, two?

As for Boeing and Airbus, in the competition that really matters, EADS is losing money and Boeing is profitable. If the 787 is a successful program, that relationship is not going to change for a long time, and I welcome the French taxpayer's continuing contributions to keeping Airbus flying.

Just like AMD's most important role in the semiconductor business is to spur Intel on, EADS' role is the provide a legitimate competitive focus for Boeing.

And, George(dot), there is nothing wrong with Embraer (or Bombardier either), which have carved out a nice market for themselves.

[Taylor Tarvin]

Rick, there is only one AN-225 flying. Antonov had one that was partly completed that they are trying to finish.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I have not ben a fan of Airbus since one of their planes was making a low pass at an airshow.The pilot tried to pull up, but the computer decided he really must have wanted to land. And land it did, in the forest.

There are a number of accounts of this incident.

Wikipedia's is as good a starting point as any:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_296

[David Tabor (sailordave)]

There are a number of accounts of this incident.

Wikipedia's is as good a starting point as any:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_296


WAS NOT the fault of the airplane. The plane did not think he was trying to land. The pilot flew too low. He intentionally went lower than he was supposed to for the lowlevel, high angle of attack demo he was doing and by the time he pulled up the plane ran out of altitude to recover from. There is a lag to the response when in this configuration.

And one of my alltime fav stories involves the A319... XW and I are flying home from St. Thomas USVI after a vac on Tortola... USAIR A319 is sitting there at the terminal, (Phil!) and I said to her, MAN, what a good looking airplane that is. She rolls her eyes, sorta like when I said a boat was good looking.

We get on the plane, her in the back, me in the jumpseat... Push out, Twr tells us to follow the USAIR Airbus.... Copilot turns to the pilot and says......

Boy that's a good looking airplane!

I about died laughing. Then had to tell them why!

[High C]

...there is nothing wrong with Embraer....

Except for the kiddie handlebars you drive 'em with. :D

http://www.interet-general.info/IMG/Embraer-ERJ145-Cockpit-1.jpg

Actually, I think their designs are spectacular. :cool:

[George.]

Embraer is one of the few things that can make one proud of Brazil. These days, not even the national soccer team qualifies...