paddlewheeler engine

[michaeljames]

Atkins sternwheeler design "Lady of the Lake at "www.atkinboatsplans.com"

The power plant calls for approx 35 horsepower at 1800 rpm with approx 180 cu in cylinder displ.
Geared down to turn the wheel at 60 rpm optimum.

The reduction gearing is not a probelm I can't solve.

The engine, whether gas, diesel, marine, auto, tractor, I am vague on ideas. Have seen many variations including a guy that mounted a IH tractor rear-end on the boat.

These wheels dont take much to turn them and overpowering won't get you anywhere.

So I'm asking for creative ideas on a low rpm plant and transmission that might be suitable on a boat like this.

And Happy Holidays to all.

Michael

[Old Bingey]

One of them old horizontal John Deere tractors... transmission, differential, bull gears, brakes and all. An H would be ideal.

[skuthorp]

On the Murray in SE Australia there are quite a few private paddle driven boats that use old tractor powerplants and transmissions basicaly dropped straight in. Typicly an old Massey Ferguson.
Side-wheelers mostly, a few converted barges but mostly purpose-built hulls with replica topsides.

[skuthorp]

On the Murray in SE Australia there are quite a few private paddle driven boats that use old tractor powerplants and transmissions basicaly dropped straight in. Typicly an old Massey Ferguson.
Side-wheelers mostly, a few converted barges but mostly purpose-built hulls with replica topsides.
http://www.echucamoama.com/
:cool:

[ 12-20-2004, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: skuthorp ]

[michaeljames]

I'll go take a look. It is difficult to find plans for paddlewheelers and even the Atkin was does not have a very old style look to the super structure. This I can remedy.

Any other info will be welcomed.

Thanks

[Dan_W]

Michael,
I tried to find that web site to check out the Lady of the Lake but could not find it. What size boat is this? I'm wondering about weight restrictions. Some of those old tractor engines and transmission are heavy brutes and might be hard to find parts for. Maybe for simplicity and maintainability a automotive diesel with an automatice transmission. Maybe an Izuzu or Nissan pick-up truck engine. It kind of depends on the budget. If you had a setup like that the power plant could be mounted transversly and then a chain or belt reduction from the trans output to a common shaft running from side to side with an crank on each end to run the wheel.
I'd be interested to see what you come up with.
Dan

[michaeljames]

www.atkinboatplans.com (http://www.atkinboatplans.com) has two sternwheelers. both 28 feet. I dont see a major problem extending the scow hulls out to, say, 36 feet, even toying with pontoons and thus extending the beam too.

The automobile engines will turn fast, cheaper to get used yes, but probably not as efficient as the tractor engines.
Since this would be engine would be deck mounted and NOT in the enclosed bulkhead like the plans have, (ventilated box cover to keep rain off)I would prefer gasoline purely because, after twenty some years of ships, I dont like smelling of diesel all the time. Yes, the diesel would give the that low slow power needed here but I would still like to see somthing different.

Weight wise, a conventional diesel power plant with a generator and all, built-in, would be too much weight, and look fugly. Last time I saw one and inquired, the weight of the "Big Box was well over a thousand pounds.

MJ

[michaeljames]

Dan,

I'm not ruling anything out. diesel auto engine may be good choice in end. I'm just looking for alternatives and look at merits/vices of each. The budget is always a concern. but with this type of a build, we are not limited to a confined space and pre existing engine bed mount. I think this would be a good little summer home, and while the paddlwheel idea may be more of a pain than it is worth, I just think they look cool and have always wanted to build one.
I saw a sternwheeler on on Lake Champlain, at a distance and never did get the name of it. Can not have ben more than a 40-50 ft but made you drool.

[maa. melee]

How bout a good steam engine? Low rpm, very handsome, absolutly authentic. Hmmm I can almost here the churning heavy piston and smell the wood smoke. Get yourself a couple stokers and your good as gold. Or I guess you could opt for the diesel or gas counter parts. Are you looking for something out of the ordinary?? I do remember hearing of some very old kerosine engines used for well pumps and agricultural water pumps back in the '40's. There's alot of things out there. Either way, sternwheelers are a sight to behold!

[alteran]

A nice way to go but not the cheapest is to use a hydrostatic transmission for the drive. It is reversible and infinitly variable speed. Hookup from engine to wheel is easy since you are just routing hydraulic lines. Controls are easy as well. Low maintenance and no exposed chains or gears if you use a low speed high torque motor. Engineering the sizing is not hard for someone with hydraulic experience.

The first one I worked on was the one on the pond at Stone Mountain Georgia in the mid 70's and it performed well and looked neat and tidy.

[ion barnes]

My vote is for hydraulics too! We have lots of de-commissioned fishboats that have had a net drum on the stern that were driven by a five cylinder radial hydraulic slave motor and have always thought that it would make a suitable drive for a stern wheeler. For a side wheeler, the additional motor would require an another engine and pump due to the required capascity of each slave.

[michaeljames]

This is why this site is so valuable. New ideas and old ideas made fresh. I believe the reason many people by-pass he idea of building these boats is lack of info. It's easier to strap on the old outboard. The other is perceived costs. There is a company in Florida making a paddlewheel boat but the "yacht" is way out of my price range.

Any pics or info(sites)on the hydraulics and the slave motor?

I am not a mechanic and am limited on skills. I can keep an outboard going and usually my van and my old truck, learning as I go. I can rip a motor out and put it back together with only a couple wires and parts left over and I would expect to be able to at least diagnos problems with this sternwheel power setup and repair the minor problems on my own, as always. It is the initial set up that will test my learning curve!

IOW, I may not fully understand, or be familiar some of the suggestions but I'll try to catch up!

My knowledge of hydraulics is limited to a 15 year old backhoe/bucketloader I had in Maine and mainly keeping the fluid filled beacuase the seals leaked in the winter when cleaning the snow off the drive.

Thanks

[ 12-21-2004, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: michaeljames ]

[whb]

Don't know if you have seen this yet or not?

Its a paddle wheel site that gives some general building guidelines.

http://gemort.wirefire.com/Contents.htm

howard

[alteran]

Ion, a side wheeler can still be powered off one engine easily with a tandem pump. Two individually controlled pumps in one housing. Think one wheel in forward one reverse. Nice manueverability.

--------------------

I'll look for a place to send you for info, its been a while since I did this stuff. One book to look for is the engineering book put out by Sundstrand. It used to be free and it was a gold mine of usefull hyrostaic data.

I'll look.....

[michaeljames]

Thanks guys. The Gemort site I go to alot but he is talking steel hull, larger vessels and mostly designing/building the package for you. Atkins knew his stuff so I would like to stay with wood unless I win the lottery.(Plus I'm not a fan of needle guns, red lead, blue depth and sandblasting, been there done that!)
Atkins desgined these boats before things got too complicated with modern this and thats', which just add up to more money and time and the inability to even start a project.
The houses I've built myself were the happiest I've lived in, the kayaks I've built and paddled were the most fun, the bicycle I built and pedaled 4 times across the continent gave me the most joy, comfort and pride in ownership and the boats I have resurrected from the dead and sailed have given me the most freedom (sailing without oweing the bank a cent.) I would not want to break the cycle now! When things go wrong I know who to blame and when they go right I can smile! tongue.gif

[Ron Williamson]

You may be interested in a site called
http://www.machinebuilders.net/
They have a bunch of hydraulic information as well.
R

[ion barnes]

Alteran, the only problem I see with the dual pump arrangment is that the motor has to be larger. If you need 30hp per pump...see? I understand your thinking though, if you only have room for one engine, then yeah make it larger. It would be a bit cheaper too no doubt.

[Dan_W]

Hi Michael,
I found the web site. Cool looking boat! Looks like it would be alot of fun on a river or other shallow water exploring. After seeing the lay out I agree with you. A small gas engine with a reduction/reversing gear on it would work well. A gas engine would run much smoother and quieter and would be easier to live with. Maybe you can scounge up an Atomic 4 or a Merc Cruiser 2.5 liter power plant. I looked on ebay but no luck today. There were some little diesels but no gas pots.
Good luck with the project, hope to see some pictures later on.
Merry Christmas!
Dan

[michaeljames]

Thanks Dan, I too think a gas engine would work fine here, but I wont rule out anything, the old Universals were/still pretty reliable and the only thing I have against diesel is the smell. I have to keep costs down if I am to build this at all, so that will be a big factor. If I have to use something cheap and superficial for power to begin with I can always retro and upgrade later. Big thing is getting ON the water. Where I live now, I can do some prefab then haul to beach but where to head N-E-S or West to beach is dilemna. As of yet I have no place to asemble the boat if I did prefab it here. A project beyond the building!

I look at all other options, especailly sailing, the cats and the scows seem to have my favor, but for plain gunkin around the shallows and not being in a hurry to go any particular place till the leaves start falling, I thought this little sternwheeler, even a stretched version, would make a comfy home(a real bed, woodstove and a second deck screened porch). A big, little boat as it were. I had the specs on this for years and this summer's bicycle ride along the Miss of WIsconsin and Ill convinced me I need to be back on my own island again.

Island - A small body of land, surrounded by the need for a Boat (Gibbons)

Good cheer, peace, safety to you all,

Michael