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ishmael
03-07-2007, 06:05 AM
I just heard a report that the GPS tracking technology is such that parents can now track their kids who have a cellphone. How do you feel about this? It's being sold as a safety issue.

Frankly, I think it sucks. I don't have kids, but what is this safety thing? A part of childhood is being unsafe. If my parents had known some of the cliffs I climbed, some of the roads I drove my bike down, they'd have called in the safety police.

There are larger issues about how this technology is going to keep track of all of us.

The Bigfella
03-07-2007, 06:09 AM
There are larger issues about how this technology is going to keep track of all of us.

Get real - it has done for years

Dan McCosh
03-07-2007, 06:09 AM
Kids? Also works for wives, husbands, lovers.....

Vince Brennan
03-07-2007, 06:14 AM
Well, there goes my brother-in-law's occupation! (P.I.)

Seriously, I see all sorts of ACLU actions in the future, but the big selling point of "Kid's Safety" will make everyone overlook all the "Big Brother" aspects :eek:(except for us, of course...:)) so, your objections are noted but (as is so common in modern government*) will be totally ignored.


(*= don't matter who's in power, they're all the same, innit?)

ishmael
03-07-2007, 06:28 AM
A part of the liberal west has, for maybe three hundred years, been the ability to re-make yourself. The new world, the west of America, what have you, you could go someplace new and start over again, or start over again just where you sat.

This new data collection, THIS is your identity: we know where you are, what you eat, how your bowels are doing, is very harmful to that freedom. I worry about it much more than the other worries. I think it's insidious and I think it lends itself to fascism. I don't think it's a matter of political parties, they both tend toward it in varying degrees and in different ways.

Go away and let me live my life.

Uncle Duke
03-07-2007, 06:52 AM
GPS in phones can be turned off, you know.
GPS was put into phones so that emergency calls made from a cell phone to 911 could provide some location. This is actually a valuable feature - seems like a good use.
I have a good friend who runs operations for a very large landscaping company - runs about 10 crews each day during the height of the season. Their company issues phones which send GPS information - he needs to know where the crews are during the day since one of the big problems in that business is people doing side-work on company time with company equipment. This, to me, seems like fair use also.
Tracking your kids? Well, if you need to track your kids there are probably other issues you need to deal with. But even here I'm not sure I find a problem. The 'good old days' solution to knowing where your kids were was to 'ground' them - then you always knew. This is the same with a little more slack.

ishmael
03-07-2007, 07:02 AM
That's the "reasonable" argument, uncle. It makes sense. Is it right?

I think my childhood/young adulthood, would have been very much diminished if my mother were watching over my shoulder. And I'm quite clear I don't want the government doing a similar peer. And that's where we are headed unless people prick up their ears and refuse.

Joe (SoCal)
03-07-2007, 07:15 AM
I don't have kids

So you don't know the feature is not for spying and keeping track of your kid, but for that God forbid abduction scenario. Or an in accident where they are unable to make contact.

As mentioned the feature can be turned off and has no big brother aspects to it. It is simply for the most horrifying moment of a parents life when their child is missing. Imagine the benefit if you can simply being able to track them and know exactly where they are.

When Tess was younger and in her full "WHY" & "What would you do" Q&A phase. She would ask daddy what you do if I was lost? I said I would find you. She said what would you do if you couldn't find me. I said I would shake the earth until you fell out. Now all I have to do is find her phone. We got her one last year with the GPS feature.

Paul Pless
03-07-2007, 07:16 AM
Kids? Also works for wives, husbands, lovers.....
And Katherine wonders why I don't carry a cellphone.:eek:

Tar Devil
03-07-2007, 07:23 AM
And Katherine wonders why I don't carry a cellphone.:eek:

Is that because you don't wanna know, or you don't want her to know? :D :D

Rational Root
03-07-2007, 07:26 AM
My Father use to tell me to stay where he could see me from the front door of the house. (Sorry Dad) I used to cycle 17miles to the nearest lakes to go fishing.

If he had given me a GPS mobile, I'd have

a) Left it behind at a friends house - "I was in Pauls all day":D

b) "Forgot" to charge it :(

c) Taken out the battery - not just turned it off - you never know.:rolleyes:

d) Bought a cheapo pay as you go and turned on call forwarding on the GPS phone to send my calls to the pay as you go.:cool:

e) Gone with the GPS on regardless - it's alway easier to get forgiveness that permission;)

f) If the GPS is tied to the phone rather than the sim card, Swapped sim cards with someone who's phone is staying is a "safe place" -

I figured that out in a few seconds, without asking 100,000 kids on bebo for their solutions.

Kids are smarter that you give them credit for.

jack grebe
03-07-2007, 08:08 AM
Anyone have a link for this? I think my daughter would love this for my grand daughter.

geeman
03-07-2007, 08:52 AM
Ish, its a different world from the one we grew up in.I wish cells had been invented when all my kids were runnin all over the place 20-some years ago.The way my kids moved around if the cell had not moved in a while I would have KNOWN something was up lol

Nicholas Carey
03-07-2007, 11:01 AM
I just heard a report that the GPS tracking technology is such that parents can now track their kids who have a cellphone. How do you feel about this? It's being sold as a safety issue.

Frankly, I think it sucks. I don't have kids, but what is this safety thing? A part of childhood is being unsafe. If my parents had known some of the cliffs I climbed, some of the roads I drove my bike down, they'd have called in the safety police.

There are larger issues about how this technology is going to keep track of all of us.You can thank your Government for this. The FCC mandated that cellphones have GPS receivers onboard and report their location to the phone company. The putative reason for this is that 911 can locate the caller (and the phone companies promise :rolleyes: that that is the only use it's put to -- but practically speaking a GPS-enabled cell phone could literally track your every move. As opposed to a non-GPS cellphone, which locates you only to the extent that the phone company can identify the cell to which the phone is communicating.

LeeG
03-07-2007, 11:12 AM
Jack, you should go outside. Your argument makes no sense, you speak of "us" when there is no us, the parents who have kids think it's a good idea. You are whining about the capability of technology when the solution is simple,,don't carry the phone. The kid who doesn't want to be found doesn't have to carry the phone.

You have a medical emergency in the snow, in your car. What'll you do? Whine about the technology that will bring you aid?

Uncle Duke
03-07-2007, 11:29 AM
The putative reason for this is that 911 can locate the caller (and the phone companies promise :rolleyes: that that is the only use it's put to
I think that what they promise is that 911 is the only use which they provide natively. There is a large market (and lots of venture capital invested) in LBS - Location Based Services. Asking your cell phone, for example, to tell you where the nearest gas station is or the nearest Chinese restaurant. Or the nearest public bathroom. There is some real perceived value in having your cell phone act as a 'smart directory'.
As an offshoot of this, there are some experiments with cell phones which also have compasses in them, so that not only could it tell you where you are, but it could also tell you exactly what building you are looking at and what's interesting about it ("you are looking at the James Lee house, built in 1794 and used as a brothel from 1861 to 1882..."). Pretty neat.
All of those things (including 'where are my kid's phones') are subscription services which you have to pay extra for. They're not giving anything away.

ishmael
03-07-2007, 11:30 AM
Lee, there is an us, and it's growing.

Do you disagree with my basic contention? What to do about it is another matter.

Katherine
03-07-2007, 11:35 AM
And Katherine wonders why I don't carry a cellphone.:eek:God forbid you get lost in China.

TomF
03-07-2007, 11:38 AM
I don't have a cell phone. I haven't bought them for my kids either.

I'm uncomfortable with the amount of virtually unavoidable tracking that now goes on ... tracking of preferences through analysis of credit card or debit card purchases, of website visits, prolly also of TV stations watched. Big Brother's most likely not paying attention day in and day out, but could if he wanted to.

So I don't want to add to the tracking any more than crucially necessary. My kids can be trusted to find a phone and call if they get lost, and to be where they tell me they're going to be. Or they lose the chance to go out again for awhile!;)

In other towns or cities, maybe this would be cavalier ... but not here. And the self-reliance they regularly get taught by it more than cancels out the slight additional risk they might face.

Uncle Duke
03-07-2007, 12:01 PM
Ish says:

there is an us, and it's growing.
I'm not sure what you mean by "us" - maybe you could clarify that for me. My view is that there are at least 5 "us's":
1: People who think this is a good idea under all circumstances
2: People who think it's a good idea under some circumstances
3: People who don't care one way or another
4: People who think it's a bad idea, but accept that it's here and live with it.
5: People who think it's a bad idea under any circumstances and who actively fight it.
Now, if only there were some way of seeing where those people are....:D:D:D:D:D:D

brad9798
03-07-2007, 12:19 PM
Some shoe manufacturers are placing tracking chips in them very soon! No kidding.

Like Joe, I have a Migo phone for Annaleise. Never plan to use it ... but at least I know I can find the PHONE in an emergency! ;)

brad9798
03-07-2007, 12:19 PM
BTW- a ton of sidewalk cams are going up all over St. Louis ... in questionable parts of town mainly!

brad9798
03-07-2007, 12:20 PM
All that will do is move activity to nicer parts ... that will then become questionable! :confused:

paladin
03-07-2007, 12:26 PM
Norfolk did the sidewalk cams 20 years ago....I networked them.....and in several areas of Texas....we prefabbed the stuff in Honduras and shipped it to the local giv'mints....:D

LeeG
03-07-2007, 12:27 PM
Lee, there is an us, and it's growing.

Do you disagree with my basic contention? What to do about it is another matter.

I disagree with a contention that requires an "us" when you aren't connected to anything except yourself. Could you please restate your contention?

Uncle Duke
03-07-2007, 12:34 PM
Some shoe manufacturers are placing tracking chips in them very soon! No kidding.
Slightly different - they are putting RFID chips in shoes, not GPS (Some years ago I worked on an initial proposal for Nike about this). This is part of an effort to identify 'black market' versions. RFID chips are passive and need to be very near a 'reader' in order to get read - can't be used for 'tracking' unless you cover the earth in readers.

emichaels
03-07-2007, 03:25 PM
I'm curious about the receiving end of this application. How is it controlled so only the parents can track the child. Is it secure enough that someone, with bad intentions, cannot track someone elses child. Stalking issues.

Eric

Uncle Duke
03-07-2007, 03:38 PM
How is it controlled so only the parents can track the child. Is it secure enough that someone, with bad intentions, cannot track someone elses child.
Good questions.
I know that the Sprint/Nextel offerings will give you data on a password protected web page, and that you can only track phones which are in your account.
And you have to have specifically enabled the phone in your account for tracking - it is not on by default.
So you can't just log in, enter a phone number and see where it is - you have to have 'rights' to see it and the phone number has to have been enabled for this. And, of course, you have to pay the carrier.
It all works great until you give someone your password (or just use some easy-to-guess password).

emichaels
03-07-2007, 03:46 PM
Lets face reality here though. Passwords don't create perfect propriotary situations by any means.

brad9798
03-07-2007, 03:48 PM
No they do not ... but close to it! Passwords, that is!

The Bigfella
03-07-2007, 05:15 PM
Sticky Kitty: God forbid you get lost in China.

Hmm - my daughter was in China for 3 months up to Christmas - her flatmate just went back through they city where they were doing their internship and discovered that half their multi-storey apartment building had been blown up in a gas explosion. Ouch.