Putting down some teak on a deak

[Noah]

Ok, I have a little hypothetical question here.

Lets say you have a classic sailboat with a sold fiberglass deck on it. (Lots of deck) You decide that you really want some wood on the deck (the cockpit is a cross between varnished teak and unfinished teak). Lets also say that you race this sailboat so you don't want to be adding a ton of weight to the boat.

What is the best way to lay down a nice looking deck over the fiberglass? Resaw your teak into 1/4 strips and 5200 it down? Screw it down?
Buy pre-made teak laminate plywood and glue or screw that down?

What do they do on those big plastic sailboats that cost more than Vermont? (Like a Swan or something like that...)

Also, I have been looking at decks, and I while I like the look of a laid deck following the curves of the boat, Art's straight planked deck on the Dark Harbor looks really nice. I'm guessing that on a thinly planked deck it is tough to bend those strips in?...

Basically I have a bunch of hypothetical questions that will probably raise the hairs on the back of a few people's necks, but I wanna know, so lay it on me.

Thanks,

Noah

[Dayton Eckerson]

Noah:
I hate to rain on the parade, but my strong recommendation is to abandon the whole idea, for several reasons. First, even if you add only a quarter inch thick layer of teak, it will add considerable weight to the boat high above the water line. Unless your boat designer accounted for this in the stability calculations, your sailing performance will suffer. I know a guy who owned an Aaggie Nielsen yawl some 20 years ago who wanted to do the same thing you are contemplating and contacted Aaggie directly. Aaggie adamantly opposed the idea and talked the owner out of it. Second, I don't know how big your deck is, but even a moderate sized teak deck will set you back 2 or 3 grand just for the wood. If you farm out the labor, plan on spending another 4 to 8 grand; if you do it yourself, plan on spending the better part of your summer on your hands and knees. Finally, if you do throw caution to the wind and go for the teak, whatever you do, DO NOT screw the teak into your deck -- use 5200 or epoxy instead. Putting hundreds of screw holes into your deck is a very bad idea. Unless you are unbelievably scrupulous about maintaining the caulking and bungs, water will permeate your deck core, causing rot and delamination. Most of the boat manufacturers who are still offering teak decks as an option have long since abandoned the screw down method. Good luck.

[Dayton Eckerson]

Noah:
I hate to rain on the parade, but my strong recommendation is to abandon the whole idea, for several reasons. First, even if you add only a quarter inch thick layer of teak, it will add considerable weight to the boat high above the water line. Unless your boat designer accounted for this in the stability calculations, your sailing performance will suffer. I know a guy who owned an Aaggie Nielsen yawl some 20 years ago who wanted to do the same thing you are contemplating and contacted Aaggie directly. Aaggie adamantly opposed the idea and talked the owner out of it. Second, I don't know how big your deck is, but even a moderate sized teak deck will set you back 2 or 3 grand just for the wood. If you farm out the labor, plan on spending another 4 to 8 grand; if you do it yourself, plan on spending the better part of your summer on your hands and knees. Finally, if you do throw caution to the wind and go for the teak, whatever you do, DO NOT screw the teak into your deck -- use 5200 or epoxy instead. Putting hundreds of screw holes into your deck is a very bad idea. Unless you are unbelievably scrupulous about maintaining the caulking and bungs, water will permeate your deck core, causing rot and delamination. Most of the boat manufacturers who are still offering teak decks as an option have long since abandoned the screw down method. Good luck.

[Scott Rosen]

Check these out. There is a good system for laying teak over 'glass.

Teak Decking Systems (http://www.teakdecking.com/)

Pictures (http://www.jby.com/newdeckfr.htm)

[Noah]

I had thought about the added weight. This boat has very little free board, so I wouldn't be putting the weight too high, but at the same time, I really hate to add any weight to a boat though.

I agree about the screw holes through the deck. I wouldn't go that route. I'm not totally sure I love the idea of epoxy or 5200 either. It would be one hell of a job to get it back up later.

Scott, thanks for the links. There isn't much information on either page, but I will inquire with Teak Decking Systems.

What do people think is the thinest layer of teak that they would put down 1/8" or 3/16"?

Noah

[thechemist]

Minimize the weight.

Get wallpaper that looks like teak.

Glue THAT down, and put a good UV-blocking finish on top, satin so it won't have a glare of a gloss finish to it.

At a casual glance, it'll look just like teak to anyone walking by.

[shadow99]

Noah, why not hire an artist to "foe-finish" a teak deck for you :D . That would solve the weight issue. Or epoxy 1/16" veneer strips to the deck, although they may not last long with the abuse that most decks take (foot traffic & weathering).

Rick

"IS IT SPRING YET?"

[Conard]

Noah, Before I went to all that trouble and expense I'd try one of the vintage colors that Kirby makes. Let me know if you want to stop by my barn and look at what I've got on my H-23. A lot of classic boats have canvassed decks.

[Ian G Wright]

I have nothing to say, yet.
When my hysteria and migrane headache have subsided I may be able to explain why this is A REALLY BAD IDEA, but just at the moment I can't face it.
"Nurse, bring the medication NOW, a double dose if you please."

IanW.

[NormMessinger]

Oh, there you are, Ian. I was wonderin' if you'd gone sailing. http://www.speakeasy.org/~ncarey/images/smileys/devil.gif

[Noah]

Ok, apart from not being traditional, and adding weight, why is this the worst thing in the world?

I would say that a good 30% of Fiberglass boats being produced today have some kind of teak laminate decking as an option.

And quite frankly I can understand why. Touching fiberglass doesn't feel nice, it isn't nice to put your hands on, and it looks like hell.

Keep the responses flowing.

Noah

[Scott Rosen]

Don't mind Ian. He thinks that anything other than a proper laid teak deck is sacrilige. ;)

[Bob Cleek]

Noah, it's really pretty simple. Most production fibreglass manufacturer's offer teak trim and deck options because their customers really want wooden boats, but can't afford them. A teak veneer deck is really just a faux finish. It LOOKS like a real laid teak deck, but that's about all. No question, it looks nice, but it looks nice like a phoney gold Rolex looks nice... from a distance to an untrained eye for a little while... No question, though, it is an option that sells boats.

To a trained eye, however, a teak veneer deck often is offensive. You KNOW it isn't real and so it looks out of place. Nobody's going to install a laid deck on a modern monocoque plastic hull. Actually, strange as it may seem, teak became fashionable for trim because it was CHEAP, more so than any other reason. No question, teak is great for laid decks, but despite its high cost, it is actually very cost effective for a manufacturer to put on a little bit of teak here and there. The price of the boat increases way beyond the cost of the material. Also, and more importantly, they don't have to maintain bare teak before the boat is sold. Mahogany handrails, for instance, will have to be regularly varnished by the brokerage until the boat sells. Teak means lower overhead and higher asking prices.

Strange as many may think, there's nothing wrong with a well built fibreglass boat. But trying to make it look like something it ain't is sort of silly.

[Pete Dorr]

Noah

Paint it a traditional deck color for this season and see how it works for you. If this is going to be your race boat it will get beat up and I'd rather beat up a paint job than a teak deck. You may find that it's good enough for that boat so you can spend more energy on your Folkboat.

Pete

[mmd]

Personally, I like a teak deck for the way it feels underfoot and it's tractibility when wet. I don't give a damn what it looks like or whether purists like it or not on a 'glass boat(sorry, Mr Cleek, et al smile.gif ). Form - and materials - follow function in my little slice of the boat world. If you decide to go for it, drop me an e-mail & I'll describe how sprung teak plank veneers were applied on a couple of Herreshoff reproductions I was recently involved in.

[JimConlin]

There was an article in a recent Epoxyworks (The West System how-to mag) describing such a deak decking job. Good description of the methods.

I'd be deterred by the cost (maybe $10/ft^2), the weight (maybe 1.0 lbs./ft^2), the time (wild guess 0.5 hrs/ft^2), and the ongoing maintenance.
My current project will have a teak veneer cockpit sole, but the deck will be LPU paint, which is quick to apply and quick to refresh.

Jim

[shadow99]

Noah, Think of it this way, you had already mentioned that the boat doesn't have alot of freeboard & you race with it. The last thing I'd want to do is add substanial weight to the topsides (ugly,slippery F/G deck). Given the approximite weight of the teak/epoxy per sqft @ 1 lb/sqft, let's say you cover a 8'x30' surface (240sqft)=240 lbs of added "babyfat :eek: ." You could gut the interior, toss the head, the tank, maybe the stove, to dump some weight, that'll balance her out :D .

Rick

[Ian G Wright]

Originally posted by NormMessinger:
Oh, there you are, Ian. I was wonderin' if you'd gone sailing. http://www.speakeasy.org/~ncarey/images/smileys/devil.gifNot even started varnishing yet Norm, this year I'm trying Les Tonkinois, French I'm afraid, but with a good reputation,,,,,,,,

IanW

[Ian G Wright]

Originally posted by Scott Rosen:
Don't mind Ian. He thinks that anything other than a proper laid teak deck is sacrilige. ;) I do, and it is.
IanW smile.gif

[Scott Rosen]

I second the idea of painting with LPU. That stuff makes great deck paint. I have it on my cabin top, with some non-skid beads added, and it holds up to just about anything. You could get 10 years before you had to repaint.

[Noah]

You guys are all probably correct that this is the last thing that I want to do, but I still like the idea of a teak deck. The boat is kinda funny. It is around 38ft on deck, 28 on the water, and weighs around 4400lbs. I'm hoping to cut down on the total weight, and it looks like I have found a carbon mast for the right price to fit the boat. I'm betting that I will be saving around 100-150 pounds by using the new mast. (And this is weight aloft) I might be will to do the teak deck tradeoff only because I think it would help sell the boat later on.

At least for this year it will be sailed with the current deck paint, and I will enjoy it. Just doing some thinking here... (though hopefully the rig changes will happen this year)

Noah

[John Gearing]

Teak does wear down, although the rate no doubt varies with the severity of use and the frequency of scrubdowns. So I don't know how many seasons you'd get out of say 1/16 or 1/8 inch teak veneer. With trad teak decks you know you have some work ahead of you when the teak wears down so much the bungs over the screws won't stay in. As I say, I can't estimate the degree to which this might be a problem in your particular situation, but longevity is something to think about.

[talltales]

i saw this material at the cleveland boat show. check it out at www.plasteak.com (http://www.plasteak.com)
:eek: