Wood / fibreglass decision

[mwybo]

First, this is not a troll. I have tweaked a few facts in order to keep private conversations private but the essence is there.

Let’s say that I have a friend who is considering the purchase of two different boats and let’s say that these two boats are the same sensibly designed shallow draft leeboard cruising boats built by a well respected east coast builder. One of these boats is built in fibreglass and the other in wood. These two boats are fitted out with comparable equipment, are in similar states of repair (good), and are very close in price. The wooden version is planked in pine on white oak.

My friend would like to take this boat to Florida and the Caribbean, i.e. warm waters, and will spend significant amounts of time aboard, probably several months at a time. It is highly probable that the boat will be grounded at certain anchorages at low tide. My friend is reasonably handy mechanically and with wood and fibreglass repairs although he has never done major repairs or construction in either. He has maintained several fibreglass boats over the years and has built one 13 foot small sailing skiff in glued lapstrake.

My friend is trying to decide whether he wants a wooden boat. On the one hand he is discovering that he is somewhat sensitive to epoxy and certain related chemicals and would like to minimize his contact with them. On the other hand, he is concerned about maintenance of a wooden hull and in particular having to undertake major structural repairs or discovering to his surprise that such repairs may be needed (see Uncas thread).

My friend would be interested in having a realistic assessment of what is truly involved in maintaining a wooden cruising sailboat (we are not talking about dinghys here). Statements like “epoxy is crap” would not be helpful to my friend, nor would comments like “real women sail wooden boats”. My friend is already happily married to a wonderful woman. Finally, my friend is not as young as he used to be but still a good ten years away from retirement age and would want to keep this boat for the long term.

What do you suggest that I tell my friend ?

[py]

Think about how the fibreglass boat might look in 10 or 15 years. Dull, faded gelcoat, crazed around stress points, water will almost certainly have found its way into structural timber members and caused extensive rot, osmosis will have well and truly made its mark. But you know all that, which is why you are leaning towards a wooden boat. You've just always had fibreglass, and are afraid of making the leap, particulalry since you've heard that wood boats are a maintenance nightmare, mostly from people who don't have one. A well built wooden boat really isn't that hard to maintain. What do you prefer, a day or tow a year repainting the topsides, or a day or two with a heavy rotary polisher and some goop polishing the topsides. What do you prefer, the smell of resin, or the smell of timber? What sounds nicer, waves, or rain, or feet, on plastic, or the same on timber. I think your decision is made, you just need some comfort.

[Nanoose]

Is there concern with wood boats in warm water....some kind of 'worm' or something??

[JimConlin]

If properly made, a glass boat will require less structural maintenance over time. Glass offers a more stable substrate for paint than wood, so with LPU paint, getting eight or ten years between topside paint jobs is a reasonable expectation. Unless glassed, plywood or solid wood planked boats will require more frequent painting.

[Thorne]

He'll have to make the call, but I'd suspect that insuring a glass boat will be easier, and it will require less maintenance in tropical climates.

[few3]

If properly made, a glass boat will require less structural maintenance over time. Glass offers a more stable substrate for paint than wood, so with LPU paint, getting eight or ten years between topside paint jobs is a reasonable expectation. Unless glassed, plywood or solid wood planked boats will require more frequent painting.

I always thought fiberglass boats continuously lost stiffness from day one due to cyclic loading.

fiberglass or wood

strength to weight: Wood

Longevity: Wood so far ( although FRP seems to last indefinitely in landfills ), I wonder how many 100 year old Macgregor's will be lovingly restored in the future?

Ability to be severley neglected: FRP


If he has to think more than a minute about which type, he is an FRP man.

[Nanoose]

Use the search feature and check out "wood worms"....actually, teredo worms. A number of very informative threads on the issue.

[JimConlin]

I always thought fiberglass boats continuously lost stiffness from day one due to cyclic loading.
...

If a glass boat is built too lightly, and many were, there can be problems.
A relative recently bought a Cape Cod Mercury built in 1955. It has had no structural repairs and needs none.
I would be surprised to see a small wooden boat that's needed no structural repairs in 52 years.

RBGarr, how's the Shields holding up?

[rbgarr]

Jim-

The Shields was built in 1967, so she's forty years old this year. I bought her about ten years ago. The year I bought her the keel bolts were replaced and the hull was barrier coated and awlgripped.
I will be replacing the standing rigging this year and if all goes well, will awlgrip the deck and cockpit liner next winter. Her teak trim (coamings and toerail only) need replacing after that, or maybe at the same time. She's a simple boat. That amount of maintenance work is as much as I want to do, dollar and timewise, and I'm comfortable doing it. I would be hard pressed to maintain a wooden equivalent.

It sounds like the poster's friend is considering something like a Meadowlark. If the fg one under consideration is built by Vaitses, I'd imagine she's built very stout.

[bamamick]

In my experience buying a wooden boat is a matter for the heart, not for the part of you that worries about practical matters.

I own a wooden Dragon that I haul across country every year for racing. Part of the initial restoration work that we did when I got her was to replace a bunch of frames. After my last trip up north I did my usual inspection on the boat and found a cracked frame. I know what happened. I hit a pot hole just south of Cleveland and she shifted on her trailer some. I do not think that the problem would have occurred on a 'glass boat. Since I am heavily into the Dragon class and dedicated to racing them I am planning on buying a 'glass Dragon next year so that I can travel with it and not have to worry so much about wear and tear from traveling. I will try and find the 'perfect' buyer for my present boat here at home, but if I can't find the right person then I will keep her in the family and just sail her in Mobile.

Here's the rub. If I weren't looking at ambitious travel to places as far away as Seattle or Vancouver then my plans might be very different. I would love to buy another woodie and put her into racing condition, and that is very likely what I would do if I didn't have the traveling to consider. I really don't think that maintenance is that big of a deal. You just do a little bit at a time, an hour or two a week and you should be fine.

I own three wooden sailboats. I own three fiberglass sailboats and a power boat. I CARE about my woodies a lot more than I do about my 'glass boats. I am proud of my wooden boats. I spend a lot more time thinking about them. In the end, the guy looking at the boats has a tough decision to make. Quite honestly, I don't think that I can give an opinion.

Mickey Lake

[paladin]

worms is worms....toredos or polyestermites, take your choice......;)

[Matt J.]

Deciding to buy any boat is a matter for personal desire, not practicality, and it's simply moreso with wooden boats. I'd not hesitate for a second to buy another woodie when we're ready for something different - because I enjoy the connection I perceive to wood. My wife loves RARUS, but is not convinced a woodie is best.

If you're a person who maintains your toys and enjoys taking care of them, then the maintenance on a wooden boat may be enjoyable anyway. It's discovering multiple broken frames (which you're not experienced in fixing) that breaks your heart and removes much of the joy.

[mmd]

Get thee hence to thy Back Issues of The Magazine and look up Maintenance: cost/wood vs. fiberglass/commentary by Doug Hylan, 177:44 Lots of good information in the article on cost of maintenance between similar boats of different materials. Summary: the costs are about the same, the maintenance schedule is different: wood needs fequent, regular maintenance at relatively low cost; fiberglass needs major, expensive overhauls widely spaced in time.

All hull materials have good and bad points - one type does not stand head-and-shoulders over others. The best selection for a given boat depends on the use and environmental conditions that the boat will be used in. Personally, I would be reticent to take a softwood traditionally planked hull into the tropics for an extended time if I was not prepared to do regular and fussy hull maintenance. 'Glass-sheathed composite wood hull, yes; trad plank-on-frame, no.

But that's just my opinion.

[ssor]

My choice would be a robust fiberglass hull and deck with a wood interior. The structural fatigue question applies to poorly constructed wood and fiberglass hulls but the wood loosens joints and lets in water and developes rot, the fiberglass crazes and looks like crap but still keeps the water on the outside. We have some very old pearsons in our marina that get painted just as if they were wood hulls. The original gelcoat has long since left the boat.

[paladin]

Gelcoat is not that great fer keeping the water out....a good LPU paint does it better, but like anything else, needs done before it breaks....my boat received new paint every 6-7 years and was totally refinished twice in 18 years....and no rot......