3 more IDIOTS on Mt Hood

[Gary E]

By SARAH SKIDMORE


GOVERNMENT CAMP, Ore. Feb 19, 2007 (AP)— Rescuers who camped out on Mount Hood set out at daybreak Monday to try to reach three climbers who fell from a snowy ledge and were huddled in sleeping bags and cuddled with a dog amid ferocious winds and blowing snow.

"They are on the move," Russell Gubele, coordinating communications for the rescue operation, said of the rescuers.
Other rescue teams from the ground were also on the way to the site, which is believed to be around the 8,300-foot level on the 11,239-foot mountain. The rescuers, about 30 in all were hoping to beat a snow storm expected later in the day.
The three climbers, two women and a man, fell on Sunday. They are believed to be good shape

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2886324

SAVE the Dog ..

[stevebaby]

They took a dog up there?
Yeah...save the dog.

[geeman]

Look at all the trouble the rescusers are having to go thru to rescue 3 idiots.I agree, save the dog and leave the idiots up there.

[Gary E]

yeah...30 people trying to save 3 IDIOTS

[Gary E]

Wow.... next time someone wants to cross the ocean, or round Cape Horn, should they ask Gary and friends if it's OK to take the risk?

Why dont you try walking accross Chesapeake Bay??
or are you SMARTER?

and you cant use the brige

[geeman]

Your right, I dont understand a sport, that puts other NON INVOLVED people at risk also to make a needed rescue.Now theres roughly 30 people trying to rescue, people who could be home with their families instead of having to put themselves at risk.
ALL AVOIDABLE

[Gary E]

their choice of hobbies makes no sense when the DAMN FOOLS REQUIRE 30 people to try to SAVE theit SORRY STUPID @SS's

SAVE the Lab

[Gary E]

Matt... If you want to be a G Damn FOOL... GO for it...
But DO NOT EXPECT THE PUBLIC to come save your sorry stupid @SS

[geeman]

I see your point MAtt, TO a point.

[Paul Pless]

Your right, I dont understand a sport, that puts other NON INVOLVED people at risk also to make a needed rescue.Just guessing here, but I'd be willing to bet that the recuers are all professional who do this line of work because they like it and will probably go to great lengths to minimize risk to themselves. Its not like the local sherriffs officers and VFD have been quickly mobilized to rescue these guys...

[Phillip Allen]

When I go sailing, I am on my own...if something goes wrong I will endevor to find out what my resources are and use them...like the mountain climbers...I would call if I had to.

OTOH yesterday I went hill climbing with two other old guys and we discussed this very thing...if for instance, if I had broken a leg, the other two with me and myself would have gotten me to the hospital...but there are folks who would call a medevac helocopter...silly

[George Roberts]

I have done stupid things like this.

I never suggested that anyone should ever try to save me. My sole comment to my wife was always: "If I am late, call the insurance company."

[Gary E]

Matt... that sound is comming from your own head...
Obviously you didnt read the intire article.... or maybe you did...



"They also have a Labrador dog with them that is cuddled up with them to help them keep warm," Gubele told AP Broadcast News. "My understanding is that they are experienced rock climbers, but not necessarily experienced in mountain climbing."


Why dont you go for a swim in the Bay today?... you do know how to swim ??

[geeman]

I dont know, maybe I'm wrong,I just dont understand the enjoyment part I guess.
I'm kind of a loner type guy, I hate asking for assistance or favors,its just not my nature.
I could be looking at this all wrong thats true.
I just dont get this sport.

[Phillip Allen]

I see it as a basically ..."Hey, look at me" in the spirit of the bubba joke of "here, hold my beer, watch this"

[TimH]

I have done stupid things like this.

I never suggested that anyone should ever try to save me. My sole comment to my wife was always: "If I am late, call the insurance company."

The insurance compant shouldnt have to pay if you did something "stupid"

[geeman]

How much assistance did the 2 in the book require? I havent read the book.

[geeman]

My point is , I guess, that rescuing car wreck victims, etc is one thing. But doing something requiring all that amount of help when it could be avoided ,,,,,I dont know, it just seems so, avoidable.

[Phillip Allen]

geeman, none IIRC; however, they were relatively inexperienced, and sailed to Cape Horn, of all places, as a personal test. Others on this thread seem to suggest the desire to take any risk makes one a sorry stupid ass.

BTW, great book, you'd enjoy it.


Matt...you may be correct in that we are over reacting...perhaps from other tensions

[geeman]

Oh he's right I over reacted big time. lotta stress right now, too quick on the trigger, rough weekend at work, and a stressful thread in here that I hate to read but have to everyday.

[geeman]

Anybody have a good excuse I can use to get out of going to work in a few minutes? I aint in the mood to work today LOL
How about "Boss I'm calling to tell you I'm doing you a favor today and not coming in, I feel that my not being there today may make your day and other employees day much safer?"

[Phillip Allen]

mental health day?

[geeman]

Naw , it wont work, I take so little time off if I didnt show up, boss would show up here to direct the funeral arrangements.He knows I never call in unless its life threatening,or equally important.

[geeman]

Mtn climbers found, and their in good shape.

[geeman]

Well even here in the Smokey Mtns people still insist on going up in the park hiking without the proper equipt or experience and get themselves in trouble.Sometimes they die.
They go up there in winter, without eqiupt they need because their "just going on a day hike"
The weather here can change .I've been up there in the early spring, temp was shirt sleeve weather when we got there about noon, 30 minutes later it was snowing and we had trouble just driving down the mtn in one piece.

[PatCox]

Such magnanimity of spirit, so much sympathy for the flawed condition of our fellow humans. It makes me tear up.

[WillW]

CNN reports they've been found in good shape, and they're walking out. Rescuers said they did everything right.

[Phillip Allen]

give it a rest guys...this wouldn't have been news if not for the others people killing themselves first...the media was hoping for a money making sequal

[Gary E]

give it a rest guys...this wouldn't have been news if not for the others people killing themselves first...the media was hoping for a money making sequal

Huh??? Just how does the media make money on something like this?
Do they sell Hot Dogs and Beer at the base of the mountain?

Glad they got out... What about the Lab?

[Phillip Allen]

the media makes money by SELLING COPY!

[PatCox]

Milk of human kindness, christian charity, judge not, lest ye be judged, it warms the heart.

[Gary E]

the media makes money by SELLING COPY!


Ohh like the Newsboy yelling....

EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT !!!

yeah, that must be it...

[Bruce Hooke]

I suppose the smart-alec response would be "of course not, the media cover news stories out of the goodness of their heart. They make their money by growing weed." With that out of the way...

It's pretty simple Gary...the news media makes money by selling the news (as in newspapers) or by selling advertising space. People buy the news if they see stories that interest them. Advertisers pay more for advertising space if more people will see the ad. A dramatic story of rescue with the possibility of death thrown in (and a dog on top of it all) is a good way to keep people glued to the radio and TV and run up the ratings and thus the ad rates, and a good way to sell more newspapers, although I suspect this story will be more of a TV story than a newspaper story.

There is also the element of competition. If someone hears about a dramatic story and wants to know more they may start channel surfing to find the TV station that is covering the story. If a story grabs people's attention and is the hot story of the day, you don't want to loose viewers to another TV station, so you focus on covering the hot story.

[Gary E]

Yo Bruceeeee

I heard it on the electric RADIO... the FREEE Radio... I dont buy the crap, I only pay the lectric bill....

Ohh... THAT:s how the media getz the $$$$ from my electric provider !!!

[stevebaby]

And now, in the interests of fairness and balance, I'll do a complete flip-flop and remind all that everything we have said about the climbers has also been said about sailors. Remember Tony Bullimore? He had to be rescued from The Great Southern Ocean by the RAN in somewhat severe weather and non sailors screamed (in Australia anyway) about the cost and risk to the Navy. I'm sure we could all recount stories about ill prepared and inexperienced sailors getting into trouble.I'm sure that none of us would deny assistance to those people.
Still think the dog should have been rescued first though.

[casem]

I was reading on CNN that the only reason they brought the dog was so that they could eat it if they got into trouble. I have the same understanding with my dog. That's why I keep her so fat.

On the other hand, one time I was walking her and I twisted my anke and had a hard time limping out. She was eyeing me up like a rawhide smeared with peanut butter.

[Hwyl]

I grew up in a mountain climbing environment. The very best climbers were chosen to be the mountain rescue team. There was competition to be chosen for the team, if one of those guys would come into the pub, there was the closest thing to awe the low key crowd could summon. If they pulled someone out who was taking all the correct precautions, there were never any recriminations.

It was a community looking after itself. I see parallels in this situation.

[Phillip Allen]

I kain't believe that Gary thinks the radio is free...(I can explain it to ya but I kain't understand it fer ya)

I give up

[Gary E]

I kain't believe that Gary thinks the radio is free...(I can explain it to ya but I kain't understand it fer ya)

I give up

I bought the radio....ok that cost something 26+ yrs ago
I plug it in the wall.... again I pay the lectric bill, and not much of one

If there's another cost I aint paying that you are... SPLAIN IT to me...Name them

[Steve Paskey]

They've been rescued.

AND, according to one of the rescuers, the dog probably saved their lives by helping to keep them warm.


Rescuers using an electronic locating device found the three climbers and their black Labrador, Velvet, on Monday morning in the White River Canyon, where they had holed up overnight at about 7,400 feet, officials said. The crew hiked with them down the east flank of the 11,239-foot mountain; on the way down, the climbers got into a tracked snow vehicle that took them to the ambulance.


"The dog probably saved their lives" by lying across them during the cold night, said Erik Brom, a member of the Portland Mountain Rescue team. He described the wind in the canyon as "hellacious."


The two women left the snow vehicle first, followed by Bryant and the dog. The three climbers boarded the ambulance, and Velvet leapt in after them.


In addition to the dog, who provided warmth and comfort, rescuers attributed the happy outcome to the climbers' use of an electronic mountain locator unit that guided searchers to their exact position.

"That's why it is a rescue, not a recovery," Lt. Nick Watt of the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office told a news conference at Timberline Lodge, a ski resort at 6,000 feet.

[Phillip Allen]

commercial radio sells ad space/time...public radio sells itself to the listeners and to those who grant "grants"

I thought Bruce explained it pretty well...they sell entertainment oneway or another...hot stories garner more listenership/higher ratings/higher add price. Think of how much is spent on a 30 second ad that plays during the super bowl...(do you have an idea how much a super bowl ad costs?)

[Bruce Hooke]

Yo Bruceeeee

I heard it on the electric RADIO... the FREEE Radio... I dont buy the crap, I only pay the lectric bill....

Ohh... THAT:s how the media getz the $$$$ from my electric provider !!!

So do you think advertisers buy advertising space just for the fun of it, and pay more for advertising time slots when more people are listening just to spend money? You may not pay any attention to ads, but they are what keep commercial radio stations in business and you can bet the advertisers would not be paying for advertising time if they were not seeing results. So, you may be immune to the advertiser's messages, but clearly other people are not.

Actually, I'd bet that you are not as immune as you think you are, but that's another matter...

[Gary E]

commercial radio sells ad space/time...public radio sells itself to the listeners and to those who grant "grants"

I thought Bruce explained it pretty well...they sell entertainment oneway or another...hot stories garner more listenership/higher ratings/higher add price. Think of how much is spent on a 30 second ad that plays during the super bowl...(do you have an idea how much a super bowl ad costs?)
Yeah...$175,000 or whatever, who cares... and I also know I dont buy any of what ever they were selling... you buy Bud?.. horsep!ss would be better beer.
Nor do I buy much of anything let alone what is advertized on radio.. being slightly hard of hearing really helps :)

[Phillip Allen]

the original point was that the news was playing to its percieved audience by headlining the newest climers on the heels of the killed climers of a few weeks ago...the motivation for the drama was said by me and others to be a jucy sequal to the deaths of previous climers...hense the headlines...you seem to miss understanding that motivation...is that still true?

[Paul Girouard]

JTA MIL should never have gone to Costa Rica either, to dangerous:rolleyes: How many people nation wide needed 911 help today?? Due to car wrecks !

They shouldn't have taken the dog that was plain dumb a$$ crap. Hell lettum freeze, that'll teach a lesson about the Mtn. climbin business:mad:

[Nanoose]

ALL AVOIDABLE

How do you know it was avoidable? Do you have some info the rest of us don't have?

[Phillip Allen]

ease up...geeman already said he over reacted...don't persue

[Nanoose]

Still think the dog should have been rescued first though.

They were TOGETHER. The dog was WITH them. Therefore, they were rescued TOGETHER.

Sheesh, you guys.

Who is this "Gary E" guy anyway? What's got his snuggies in such a knot?

[Nanoose]

I bought the radio....ok that cost something 26+ yrs ago
I plug it in the wall.... again I pay the lectric bill, and not much of one

If there's another cost I aint paying that you are... SPLAIN IT to me...Name them

Where's this guy from, anyway? Has he got even 2 brain cells to rub together?

Ah....wait a minute....I'm catchin on!! Is this DUTCH????

[Nanoose]

They shouldn't have taken the dog that was plain dumb a$$ crap. Hell lettum freeze, that'll teach a lesson about the Mtn. climbin business:mad:

Ah, the article seems to say they were part of a group of 8 out on the hike and were on their way down when the weather took a very bad turn. Lotsa people take their dog with them on a hike. Why are you crucifyin them for this?

[Phillip Allen]

I give up...again

[Bruce Hooke]

Where's this guy from, anyway? Has he got even 2 brain cells to rub together?

Ah....wait a minute....I'm catchin on!! Is this DUTCH????

No Gary E is not Dutch. His personality is too different and he does sometimes have useful things to say about boats. However, he does seem to be a prime heart attack candidate given how often he gets his knickers in a knot.

[Nanoose]

However, he does seem to be a prime heart attack candidate given how often he gets his knickers in a knot.

That could be the understatement of the century.

Thanks for the info, Bruce.

[Paul Girouard]

Ah, the article seems to say they were part of a group of 8 out on the hike and were on their way down when the weather took a very bad turn. Lotsa people take their dog with them on a hike. Why are you crucifyin them for this?


Ah read my whole post :rolleyes: It was a attempt to spin up GaryE a bit more :eek: , seems they're giving the dog some of the credit for saving those dumb a$$ rock climbers who decided to become Mtn. climbers:rolleyes:

They just needed a lil help from Home cheapo , you can do it , they can help:rolleyes: Ya right:rolleyes:

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/dog-credited-with-saving-mt-hood/20070218220909990001

Dog Credited With Saving Mt. Hood Climbers

By SARAH SKIDMORE
AP



But I do think it was unwise to take a dog on a Mtn climb , what if the dog comes up lame , if it gets frozen pads on the feet, if it gets some wierd altitude sickness, or what if ..... ? Can you then pack out the 40 to 60 lbs dog?? Along with yourself and gear?? To many if's for me.

Anyway GaryE blast away:D Stay safe in your bunker, is Ross Perot with you?? He hasn't been seen since the 2000 scare has he??

Be safe out there!!;)

Well whatever:rolleyes:

[bamamick]

(all the way to the IC level) and although it does happen that there are accidents from time to time, you can bet that those guys (men and women) know what they are doing and are taking proper precautions. The first rule of any response is for the responder to protect themsleves first.

I love the idea of climbing. I have done quite a bit of mountain hiking in the past, but never climbing with gear. I would love to do it, but I doubt that I am fit enough now. Mountain weather is unpredictable. Reminds me of a oysterman friend of mine. 'Never leave the dock without five gallons of water and a long sleeved shirt' he used to tell me. Mountaineers are better prepared and trained than ever today and still there are tragedies. A few people are always going to want to stretch the limits if they can, and a few good people are always going to be willing to try and help them if they get in trouble. As Gareth said, if everyone has done what they were supposed to do then there should be NO recriminations.

I just hope more people don't start putting dogs through all of that so that they have an emergency bed-warmer.

Mickey Lake

[Ian McColgin]

Now that we know they were part of a well-equipped group doing a bit of moderate altitude winter camping - part of the learning process for mountaineering and a route well within a fit dog's ability - and that due to the position locator beacon and cell phone contact the evacuation plan was essentially made Sunday night, are there any on this forum who still cleave to condemnations like "idiots" etc?

[geeman]

Nope, I already said earlier that I had overstated and overeacted.

[George Roberts]

The facts that they fell off a ledge and there were blizzards predicted support the claim that they were idiots.

On the other hand, 30 guys going out in the dark with little visibility and high avalanche danger indicates that the rescue people were not intellectual giants.

Perhaps climbers are simply a "special" breed.

[geeman]

The only thing I can add is I try most of the time to not tempt Mother nature,she's much stronger then I am and I know my limits now days.

[TimH]

There was talk around here a while back of making mountain climbing illegal. boating and motorcycles would probably come next.

[Nanoose]

The facts that they fell off a ledge and there were blizzards predicted support the claim that they were idiots.


I didn't see in the article that a blizzard was predicted before they left. Where are you getting that info?

And in white out conditions, it's pretty hard to tell up from down, much less see a ledge. But wait, you're from Oklahoma, so you probably have no idea what white out conditions (or 'ledge' for that matter) indicates.

As for making the 'idiot' diagnosis...
IDIOT–noun
1. an utterly foolish or senseless person.
2. Psychology. a person of the lowest order in a former classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25.

I didn't realize you have the training and expertise to make such a diagnosis. I assume then you've met these people, tested them and made this determination? It would seem to me an idiot wouldn't have had a locator beacon with them, or been dressed appropriately, or known to stay in one location, or known to stay together, or have the ability to look after a dog, or...or...or....

It must feel so good to have such a perfect understanding of the situation as to be able to make such all encompassing judgements. Wow. I stand in awe. I wish I was you.

[changtse]

Seems like whether or not you approve of the risk, mountain climbing rescuers are different: most every person out there doing the rescue is part of a volunteer mountain rescue group. No agencies are required to go rescue one's sorry self up in the mountains, it's the community taking care of itself, like Hwyl wrote. (Some exceptions apply: see national parks with climbing rangers.)

Contrast that with being rescued by professionals on the highway or the ocean who are getting paid to risk their lives for you, sometimes in bad weather: Coast Guard, police, firemen, paramedics. Say, the web editor who had sheriffs and highway patrol and others searching for him in the Oregon Coast Range. All those guys are being TOLD to go help you as part of a job, they don't have a choice; mountain rescuers do.

As a lifetime mountain climber (and occasionally rock climber and mountain rescue volunteer) newly converted to boats, I'm interested in finding out what community groups help rescue sailors in trouble? Or is it sort of a "whoever's on the passing boat will help" kind of thing? Or Coast Guard? You know, not PLANNING to need help...just kind of wondering...

Matt K (not J)

[PatCox]

Matt, the coast guard, and the national guard, which has long range helicopters, will rescue anyone near shore, so long as there is risk to life. You are required to lend assistance to a vessel in distress if you can. Nearby passing ships make a lot of rescues and the coast guard often coordinates, finding out who is closest and vectoring them in.

In order to encourage rescue, maritime law gives the rescuer a lien on the vessel rescued in some complicated circumstances when property is saved, as opposed to people, its called salvage. Basically, the insurance company covering the boat has to pay you a bounty in gratitude that they didn't have to pay out a total loss.

On the sea its pretty much understood that drowning is the common enemy we are all united against.

[TimH]

That brings an interesting thought. nobody wants to drown. Most people dont have a aqualung aboard while out pleasure boating. I am not sure exactly how fish gills work, but it would be an interesting project for someone to try to replicate them in a small form where humans could use them. Maybe someones already working on it.