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View Full Version : Who was it that was getting into muzzleloading?



Phillip Allen
02-14-2007, 06:14 PM
He was looking for a list of things he might need...

boylesboats
02-14-2007, 06:24 PM
It time for a nap, wake me when the shooting is over...

Phillip Allen
02-14-2007, 06:29 PM
I'm serious...I lost my possibles bag and need to make a new one and the stuff (possibles) that go in it...thought I might make an extra bullet starter...

Tommy Bonds
02-14-2007, 07:20 PM
I have been pondering getting out that my old Pennsylvania rifle and using it for a longer deer season.

paladin
02-14-2007, 07:24 PM
which brings to mind a question.......but it probably has more to do with an ancient and creaky rememory........does the antique weapon season clearly state "Muzzle loaders" or is any black powder weapon legal......since my '92 was designed for black powder......?:D

geeman
02-14-2007, 08:06 PM
I was asking questions abou black powder a couple of weeks ago.
We were getting ready to buy powder n shot etc to try my hand with my cap n ball revolver and later my Kentuck long rifle.
Just today in fact we went to 2 different guns stores that carry black powder equip. and both stores didnt carry 31 cal. ammo.
So unless I can find the stuff in Morristown tomorrow it looks like I'm going to have to order it , and wait,,,,,,,,,,,,

Phillip Allen
02-14-2007, 08:15 PM
If you can get bagged buckshot...0 buckshot is about .32 cal.

I have the stuff to make several bullet starters. I like the mallet type and have turned maple mallet heads and 5/16 brass long and short rods to make them with...if anyone's interested.

Mallet heads are easier on my palms when it comes to starting bullets (I shot competition for years and that might require 100 rounds in a day and one can beat up his hand with the round type)

geeman
02-14-2007, 08:22 PM
So 32 cal. shot is close enough to 31 cal. I can use that instead? That would make it so much simpler.
I thought I was going to have to come up with the equip. to pour my own shot.Something I've never attempted in the past.

Phillip Allen
02-14-2007, 08:26 PM
.31 cal revolver...? It must fit tight enough to cut a thin ring of lead from the ball as you ram it home...double check the dia of the buckshot...000 is I think .36, 0000 (generally called number 4 buckshot)is about .24 caliber and 0 is .32, I forget what 00 is.

geeman
02-14-2007, 08:49 PM
Ok, maybe I'll take the cyl. from the gun with me tomorrow and maybe I can match up something close enough to work.Worth a "shot" LOL

boylesboats
02-14-2007, 09:54 PM
Ok, maybe I'll take the cyl. from the gun with me tomorrow and maybe I can match up something close enough to work.Worth a "shot" LOL
For .31 cal... you'll need .320 dia balls...

geeman
02-14-2007, 09:59 PM
NOW WE're COOKIN!!!!!!!!!!

boylesboats
02-14-2007, 10:01 PM
So 32 cal. shot is close enough to 31 cal. I can use that instead? That would make it so much simpler.
I thought I was going to have to come up with the equip. to pour my own shot.Something I've never attempted in the past.

Down Union City, Tenn... There's a place called Dixie Guns Work... They got everything that you possibly needed... Carry a fat wallet, or a credit card, because you'll ended up more than grocery sack full..
I have buy stuff from them, their catalog is about a mile thick, full of stuff that you can't find at your local gunsmith... I'm serious.. My 1851 Colt Navy, had a bad spring in it, I gambled and order the spring, hammer, and the cylinder pawl.. It went together so easy without any fitting or filing.. By the way the Colt is a replica...

Nicholas Carey
02-14-2007, 10:14 PM
Round shot?

Cabela's sells Hornady swaged round shot at
http://www.cabelas.com/link-12/product/0040403212649a.shtml

.315 is what you want I think for .31 calibre, though they've also got .323.

Which will work better prolly depends on the particulars of your gun.

geeman
02-14-2007, 10:14 PM
Mines a replica also.Hope I can find what I need tomorrow, I all of a sudden cant wait to shoot this thing.Its only been sitting on its own rack on display now for about 7 years.NOW I get around to wanting to shoot it,,,,,,,,

Woxbox
02-14-2007, 10:35 PM
Dixie gun works has website, too, of course.
www.dixiegunworks.com (http://www.dixiegunworks.com)
I've been itching to buy this gem from them:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/images/MC0628.jpg
A nice swivel gun, 17th-century-style. But what they're selling is a solid casting. Now I haven't found anyone to bore and line it for a reasonable fee. So since we're on the subject, any suggestions? The casting is only $250. The one quote I got to prepare it for use was $1,800. That seemed a bit high.
Any new leads since I asked about this last year? (I'll be firing blanks, by the way, with the gun mounted up in the bow of the Kalmar Nyckel's 18' shallop.)

geeman
02-14-2007, 10:55 PM
If the going rate to drill a hole in a piece of pipe is $1800,,, I'm in the wrong business.

boylesboats
02-14-2007, 10:59 PM
Dixie gun works has website, too, of course.
www.dixiegunworks.com (http://www.dixiegunworks.com)
I've been itching to buy this gem from them:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/images/MC0628.jpg
A nice swivel gun, 17th-century-style. But what they're selling is a solid casting. Now I haven't found anyone to bore and line it for a reasonable fee. So since we're on the subject, any suggestions? The casting is only $250. The one quote I got to prepare it for use was $1,800. That seemed a bit high.
Any new leads since I asked about this last year? (I'll be firing blanks, by the way, with the gun mounted up in the bow of the Kalmar Nyckel's 18' shallop.)

They do have firing cannon barrels too... All you would have to do is to mount it before firing...

geeman
02-14-2007, 11:15 PM
So the one pictured above was designed for static use, or display purposes maybe?

Woxbox
02-14-2007, 11:15 PM
Boylesboats -- I need an early 17th century piece or replica thereof, since that's the period we cover. We'd be showing this to school kids and making folks on shore jump at festivals, etc. This is the only swivel gun I've been able to find that fits the bill.
I think the one shown isn't bored to avoid all those issues that come with selling a "gun." I'd want it both bored and then fitted with a steel liner and, of course, a touch hole. Done safely, the steel liner is heavy enough to take the charge and the visible gun really just becomes a container.

geeman
02-14-2007, 11:18 PM
This may be a stupid answer or question in itself, but where do the movie guys get all those cannon we see in the movies constantly?

geeman
02-14-2007, 11:23 PM
I'm also trying to find a piece of leather so I can build a holster to fit the gun.I could buy one but I want to build my own.So I'm in process of doing that too.I have a nice black belt with concho's on it that will look good with a semi matching holster.

BrianW
02-14-2007, 11:27 PM
Phillip,

Isn't there a technique for determining the actual bore size? Something about jamming soft lead down in there?

boylesboats
02-15-2007, 01:26 AM
Phillip,

Isn't there a technique for determining the actual bore size? Something about jamming soft lead down in there?
No..:eek: Its not accurate that way...
Most use what we called dial calipers, or vernier calipers..

The Bigfella
02-15-2007, 03:45 AM
I drive past a cannon every time I go down to the boat - its lying in the grass in someone's front yard. About a 5" - 6" bore at a guess - 2' diameter at the thickest and about 10' long.

boylesboats
02-15-2007, 05:17 AM
I drive past a cannon every time I go down to the boat - its lying in the grass in someone's front yard. About a 5" - 6" bore at a guess - 2' diameter at the thickest and about 10' long.

At least they know that nobody ain't gonna walk off with it...:D

Phillip Allen
02-15-2007, 05:34 AM
I drive past a cannon every time I go down to the boat - its lying in the grass in someone's front yard. About a 5" - 6" bore at a guess - 2' diameter at the thickest and about 10' long.


Gotta be a caronade of at least 32 pound caliber or more?

Phillip Allen
02-15-2007, 05:37 AM
Phillip,

Isn't there a technique for determining the actual bore size? Something about jamming soft lead down in there?


I think you are speaking of "slugging" the bore but in his revolver it is the cylinder that determins the ball size and not the bore. One may simply use a vernier to check the mouth of the chamber and find out all he needs to know.

Phillip Allen
02-15-2007, 05:40 AM
as to the swivel...drill an undersized bore...all you need is smoke and noise but not an actuall working gun. drill a half-sized hole and a touch hole and you can save on powder and add the extra metal to the gun itself and dispense with the liner which is only needed for live fire.

geeman
02-15-2007, 08:43 AM
I was wondering also why a liner was necessary for a "noise only" cannon.

boylesboats
02-15-2007, 09:11 AM
I was wondering also why a liner was necessary for a "noise only" cannon.
Because those barrel are casted.. Ain't as strong as it should be... Some idoits sometime doubled their charge to make it much more smokes... If the bigger noise wanted, just pack in some more paper wadding....
I did made noise cannon with the post driver, I drilled a 3/32" hole at the one end, put about a foot green firework fuse in the hole, dump 2ounces of FFg black powder in, and pack tight wad of newspaper about six or eight inches thick... Light the fuse and run like a black boy running from the cops after raping a underage blonde girl.:eek: .. Sometime it'll blow the post driver apart...


By the way... Shhhhh, you didn't hear it from me..;) It's your responsablity

BrianW
02-15-2007, 04:51 PM
I think you are speaking of "slugging" the bore but in his revolver it is the cylinder that determins the ball size and not the bore. One may simply use a vernier to check the mouth of the chamber and find out all he needs to know.

After I logged off, I remembered about that cerra cast stuff.

It also seems that forcing cones need to be mentioned in a discussion such as this one. It all has to work together.

geeman
02-15-2007, 06:06 PM
Well, its Thurs afternoon , we drove all over the area,STILL CANT FIND powder and shot.What with livin in the south and not being able to git yer powder n shot? DAMN!!!!!!!!!! This is frustratinggggggggg!
Been as far as Morristown tn one way and Sevierville tn the other way, jeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzz!

boylesboats
02-15-2007, 06:55 PM
Well, its Thurs afternoon , we drove all over the area,STILL CANT FIND powder and shot.What with livin in the south and not being able to git yer powder n shot? DAMN!!!!!!!!!! This is frustratinggggggggg!
Been as far as Morristown tn one way and Sevierville tn the other way, jeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzz!
How close are you to Union City?

Phillip Allen
02-15-2007, 06:57 PM
ask the black powder forum...

geeman
02-15-2007, 06:58 PM
I had to google it to find it, I'm about 550 miles away.long ways offff lol

Phillip Allen
02-15-2007, 07:04 PM
do a search for Buckskinners, rendezous, black powder match and the like...find out where the black powder clubs are in your area and contact them for sources.

boylesboats
02-15-2007, 10:14 PM
I'm also trying to find a piece of leather so I can build a holster to fit the gun.I could buy one but I want to build my own.So I'm in process of doing that too.I have a nice black belt with concho's on it that will look good with a semi matching holster.

Do you need any hints or tip on making one? I have made a couple... It isn't hard to do... The only pattern you'll need is the revolver, a piece of 12" X 16" (10 -12 ounces vegetable tanned or live oak saddle skirt), a spool of fake sinew, two needles, sharp knife (box knife will do), some glue like Elmer's white glue... Also a poster board and saran wrap or some plastc wrap..
Get back to me when you gather the supplies...

geeman
02-16-2007, 11:37 AM
As soon as I can find the leather I'll let ya know.I love living in the country but finding what you need sometimes is the downside.

boylesboats
02-16-2007, 02:04 PM
As soon as I can find the leather I'll let ya know.I love living in the country but finding what you need sometimes is the downside.
I know what it like, I've lived in the country for a long time...

geeman
02-19-2007, 01:06 PM
I think I found a source for lead close by here. But can someone tell me how to measure the charge? 31 cal.

Phillip Allen
02-19-2007, 01:35 PM
I think I found a source for lead close by here. But can someone tell me how to measure the charge? 31 cal.

Your revolver will set the charge...by trial and error you can find out how much powder it takes to allow the ball to seat firmly on it with about 1/8 inch between the high part of the ball and the face of the cylinder. Off hand probably in the neighborhood of 12-15 grains of FFFg.

PM me if you need clarification

geeman
02-23-2007, 11:44 AM
OK, today is Friday.Earlier this week wife and I were talking about the shot we still cant find here without having to order it.This we will do shortly.
But! While discussing the problem my wife ask why I couldnt just use the closest fitting SINKERS that come in "shot" bags.
She suggested going out to the shed and bringing all the tackle in the house and trying to fit a close fit of FISHING shot to the gun.
AMAZING, I tried and did find a shot that will just fit in the cyl.
Its not a real tite fit but I think I can use this as a sub until I can get what I need via Mail order.
I dont expect tite groupings , but I think I will be able to play with the pistol.
I still hate this business of wife coming up with solutions,this is getting to the point, well, never mind ,lol

Phillip Allen
02-23-2007, 03:20 PM
If that ball does not fit tightly, it can move under recoil and if it gets loose enough, can cause a chain fire...not good!

geeman
02-24-2007, 08:50 AM
I think its a tite enough fit to not cause a problem,BUT,,,, If I blow myself up, I'll be sure to report back that the solution , wasnt LOL

paladin
02-24-2007, 10:54 AM
Marbles work well.....Using a .69 cal. horse pistol, flintlock, I found that a certain grade of marble would roll down the muzzle....
With an grease soaked pattch it would seat with the ramrod...
20 grains of FFFG seemed about right.
It is truly amazing to see a glass marble penetrate a corrugated sheet iron panel, continue through the 2 x 4 support below it, and punch into another sheet iron panel making a deep depression on it....all without shattering.......