A nice skiff That can handle an Larger Outboard

[shombolly]

There are so many skiffs and boats I see on this forum that are toys. Lightly built silly looking and would be better suited as a children attraction on a playground.

I am looking for a 12 to 14 ft rugged skiff that I can build and power by 10 or 15hp. I have seen alot of plans but they are only rowing skiffs that could only handle a small engine or they are made out of ply. Does anyone know of a good example of a v or flat bottom skiff that fits this criteria. A skiff that is good looking by function!!

[RodB]

Take a look at my 18 footer designed by Tracy Obrien. I am running a 90hp Yamaha 2 stroke outboard with a jet pump and a prop if desired.

http://www.woodenboat-ubb.co m/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=004450&p= (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=004450&p=)

Also look here:
http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultim atebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=004222 (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=004222)

I'm assuming you are wanting a planing hull.
I also have the plans for a 16 foot version and I know Tracy would design a great stitch and glue boat for you at any specs you wanted, specifying the bottom degree of "V", and of course as much freeboard as you wanted. You could have it completely open or with decks as mine, floor or no floor... V bow, or like mine, or square bow. You could achieve any beam you wanted and could conceptualize a craft to handle any power you wanted in a 12-14-15' skiff...even up to 25-30hp or more...if you didn't mind the weight.

His designs with full length sheer decks (my decks were 12" wide for a flyfishing skiff)...but most of his designs have sheer decks of only 4") offer great stiffness and rigidity...thus closing the box...so to speak, which enables you to get a really strong light weight craft able to handle any type of outboard you want...but not overbuilt as with most designs like Glen-l. Also, this design type is superior to most powerboat designs that I have seen. No torqueing of the hull... I would bet you could get the basic custom hull panels, transom. etc...for under $200...to meet any specific criteria you wanted. Check out his website at:

tracyobrien.com 360-748-4089

Just fabricate the panels, glass them on the horizontal (sawhorses and 2X6's) stitch them together in a cradle along with the transom, and build/design the interior to suit your needs. Simple and easy construction with epoxy and plywood... encapsulated... will last forever. Email me if you have any questions. I can't think of an easier way to get a skiff matching your individual needs and requirements but also having great looks and a great strength vs weight ratio. Tracy is great at taking your basic concept and guiding you to a really well thought out solution to the boat you envisioned...that meets all you needs.

RB

[ 10-31-2005, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Rowboats need slippery shapes because they will be powered by very limited amounts of horsepower. You, for instance, can only generate about ¼ HP for any length of time (that is if you have observed a healthy lifestyle for all your days).The small high mounted rowboat transom is a necessary design element in all efficient rowboats.
Powerboats, on the other hand, have to support a motor of given weight on their transoms. That means the hindquarters of the boat have to be wide enough to support the weight without going awash.
The wide transom, partially awash, is hydrodynamically bad but you can't have everything.
Next, any skiff that is designed to row is a displacement hull. That means it will only go so fast (hull speed) and any attempt to go faster will require cubic horsepower for very small increases in speed.
It is a sad fact that nailing big horsepower on a displacement hull will not make it plane and any attempt to get it out of displacement mode will cost you in fuel and unnecessary wear and tear on your motor.
Upon occasion a bigger motor will help a bit to counteract the effects of wind and tide but in general it's not worth going much over what's recommended.
Most lightweight lightly loaded 14 ft.skiffs will get to hull speed with 3 or 4 HP. By the time you get to 7.5 hp you are over the limit but can use the motor if it doesn't sink the transom too much.
If you require a bigger motor you're going to have to get a planning hull.
Charlie

[ 11-01-2005, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Cuyahoga Chuck ]

[Rick Tyler]

Here are a few of my modern favorites in that size range. All are Jacques Mertens or Evan Gatehouse designs:

The Indian River Skiff, D15 (http://boatplans-online.com/proddetail.php?prod=D15) :

http://boatplans-online.com/prodimages/D15_350.jpg

Fifteen horsepower is marginal for the OB15 (http://boatplans-online.com/proddetail.php?prod=OB15) but it's a nice boat:

http://boatplans-online.com/prodimages/OB15_350.jpg
Sort of my favorite is the little Garvey 11 (http://boatplans-online.com/proddetail.php?prod=GV11). It will plane with only 10hp:

http://www.bateau2.com/gallery/GV11/photos/GV11_boat.jpg

Jacques has one of the widest range of powerboat plans of any designer specializing in amateur-friendly designs. Check out this page. (http://boatplans-online.com/products.php?id=16)

Good luck. Looking for the right design might be more fun than building.

[L.W. Baxter]

Does anyone know of a good example of a v or flat bottom skiff that fits this criteria. A skiff that is good looking by function!! Yes, yes I do. The 12 and 14 foot semi-dories from John Gardner's The Dory Book meet your criteria and then some. They can be built traditional lapstrake or of plywood, or a combination of sawn lumber with plywood garboards. They'll plane nicely with the horsepower range you mention. There is no modern design that improves on the looks, function, or construction method.

[stevenj]

I second LWB's suggestion of looking in the Dory Book. The Outboard Flatiron @14'4" exactly matches the characteristics you laid out. It's durn good lookin and easy to go together. I may be a bit biased though, I'm building one.... about to get the sides on!!!

good luck and let us know what you decide on.

regards,
stevenj

[shombolly]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, but I really haven't seen anything in these boats that suits my desire.

Think Maine/New England. I want somthing that has a square transome and no plywood or epoxy. Think Mackenzie Cuttyhunk and Srink it down. It has to plane.

Also Does anyone know how I could get my hands on a Mackenzie 23??

[Bob Smalser]

Originally posted by shombolly:
....no plywood or epoxy. Think Mackenzie Cuttyhunk and Shrink it down.
Sounds like a Poulsbo Boat to me. No kiddie toys, these fleet boats. Ditto the Spurling Skiff, for that matter. Unless you boat on mill ponds exclusively, planing is over rated on boats this short....but I believe these will plane with the right power and a flatter run aft.

CWB Lake Union sells plans.

http://www.woodenboat.org/festival/Guide/guide_beaver.htm (http://www.woodenboat.org/festival/Guide/guide_beaver.htm)

http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2003/GronnBaten-1.jpg

http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2003/PoulsboSteam-5.jpg

[ 11-01-2005, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[RodB]

Boy I think that Simmons Sea Skiff would be a dandy...look at the weight of the hull for the size... really interesting.

RB

[Rick Tyler]

Originally posted by joejapan:
Do you know about Dave Carnell's website (http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/davecarnell/#Simmons) referring to the legendary Simmons SeaSkiff ? Dave's Website is full of epoxy.

How about visiting the outboard designs of the Atkins? (http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Oar/index.html)

[ 11-02-2005, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Rick Tyler ]

[CJ]

May not fit all your criteria (it is made with ply), but Old Wharf Dory's 16' LYS a heavily built 16 footer that would do fine with a 20 hp to 35 hp. It's a versatile, stable boat that can hold a LOT of weight. Maybe can be built of something other than ply.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid189/pa671e2b4fa6925bf2007f0c0deac83f7/f2024d12.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid189/p2d245f42bc5dfbaae9508a691921f8f0/f2024cb2.jpg

[dcobbett]

Shombolly,

Have you looked at Pete Culler's outboard skiffs? Sound like just what you are looking for; wood, traditional construction and looks, move well with outboard power, etc., etc., but they are narrow.

[shombolly]

The skiff above looks more like what i want but not 100%. Would like somthing with strait sides and traditional construction. I mostly only see them when they are in working trim, Less paint more wood and barnacles

[Keith Wilson]

Here ya go - The Boger/Payson Work Skiff; definitely NOT a toy. (http://www.instantboats.com/skiff15.htm)

http://www.instantboats.com/images/skiff15.gif

[JimD]

Have a look at the Atkins' website, too.

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Photos/MaudeAndEmeline/index.html

[dmede]

Has anybody mentioned Atkins (http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/) yet? They have a large number of skiff plans, both inboard and outboard. They are deffinetly not toys (though thats largely a matter of how you build). These are tough old fasioned designs with lots of character. I have a couple sets of plans, they are well drawn and have decent build articles to go with them, though there is no hand holding.

here's a couple shots of Atkins Maud & Emeline from this years PT WBF (I plan to make this my next build, "garage willing"):

http://static.flickr.com/24/59020035_e16b9bcdfd.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/33/59020034_0433e0ff71.jpg?v=0

dave

edited to add: damnit Jim! you beat me by a minute... :D

oh! and you linked to M&E too! I'm mortified ;)

[ 11-02-2005, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

[dmede]

Originally posted by shombolly:
The skiff above looks more like what i want but not 100%. Would like somthing with strait sides and traditional construction. I mostly only see them when they are in working trim, Less paint more wood and barnaclesWhy strait sides shombolly? Not a good look IMO. The flair adds a good deal more charachter to a small boats lines and serves to help keep water out as well as add reserve stability. Paint and trim to suit of course, so any individual plan can be finished fancy or finished for work, as you see fit.

Just another plug for Atkins, they are mostly designed for traditional construction. Or you can mix it up a bit. The skiff in the pics I posted was ply sided but not glued, it had Sika in the laps and was clinch nailed tight.

[ 11-02-2005, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

[chucksw]

Sea Bright Skiff. Atkins had a couple designs based on it. 16'. Lapstrake hull. Straight sides for the most part. Maybe not as rectangular a transom as you are seeking.

[Rick Tyler]

Originally posted by dmede:
Has anybody mentioned Atkins yet? (...) edited to add: damnit Jim! you beat me by a minute...Not to be all competitive or anything, but I beat you by 20 minutes.

[dmede]

yeah I saw that just a bit latter but thought I'd try and cover up my inadequate reading of the entire post by ignoring it :D

you get the gold star, but I get special mention for the nice big pics ;)

[Rick Tyler]

Originally posted by dmede:
Why strait(sic) sides shombolly? Not a good look IMO. The flair adds a good deal more character to a small boats lines and serves to help keep water out as well as add reserve stability.I agree completely about the looks -- there is no question that a little flare adds style. It also can help keep spray out of the boat (although a spray rail at the chine works even better).

I disagree about the reserve stability. Given a fixed beam at the gunwale and all else being equal, a boat with a wider bottom will be more stable. It might not look "right" but if your goal is maximum stability for a given width, you will have vertical sides, just like the Bolger boxes.

[dmede]

Rick I'm out of my element here with he stability issue but I'll see what I can cobble together.

I'm talking about "reserve" stability which I thought meant a boats tendancy to gain stability when pushed into the water or rolled to one side putting the side into the water. The bottom width has more to do with "inital" stability. A wider bottom has greater initial stability than a narrow one, but straight sides have less reserve satability than flared or round ones.

So bottom width being somewhat equal, a boat with flared sides will have greater reserve stabilty as it is rolled to one side or the other. A consideration if you intend to work the boat, say pulling pots up the side is a slight chop etc...

[ 11-02-2005, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

[Keith Wilson]

It depends on whether you are figuring from bottom width or overall beam. For a given overall beam, a box will have the greatest stability at reasonable angles of heel. For a given bottom width, flare helps. Straight sides ensure that you can't get too far out past the bottom. Bolger's June Bug, which he designed as a mooring tender to lift weights off the bottom, is a long and fairly elegant box. Most folks think flared sides look better, OTOH, although traditional sharpies had almost plumb sides and they're pretty enough.

You can build a good boat either way.

[JimD]

Restating the obvious I suppose, but narrow bottomed and overly flared sided hulls tend to flop over on one side or another, hence the problem with dories that aren't well ballasted. I like a skiff with a relatively wide bottom and moderately flared sides.

PS - Rick, you win on the Atkin suggestion, but for purposes of safety dmede and I were providing the forum with built in redundancy :D

[shombolly]

oooooo That Atkins is nice. Very close to what i want. Can you put a 10hp on an Atkins, and bang around, or is it more of a rowing skiff?

[dmede]

Originally posted by shombolly:
oooooo That Atkins is nice. Very close to what i want. Can you put a 10hp on an Atkins, and bang around, or is it more of a rowing skiff?For Maud & Emeline he specs around a 3-5hp outboard but says she'll do 11mph with the 5hp. Weight of motor should be under around 50lbs. What kind of power and speed you get could depend on if you go 2 or 4 stroke. I've found a 6hp 4 stroke that is within his weight specs so I'll use that. Above that you almost doubel the weight in 4 stroke. That may seem on the low end of the power spectrum (most of his designs are modest in power) but I think she'll be happiest at a modest speed.

edited to be more specific: that design is indeed an outboard design, intended primarly as a motor boat but with good rowing ability.

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Oar/MaudeAndEmeline.html

[ 11-02-2005, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

[Tristan]

Too bad you don't want plywood. We have a Bologer/Payson Diablo, 14.5 feet long, light weight, looks good, and our 15 hp Johnson will plane her as fast as you want to go with two people.

[JimD]

Maybe look at larger Atkin designs such as Elon Jessup. Here's a quote from the description.


The principal dimensions of Elon Jessup are 16' 6-3/8" overall by 15' on her waterline by 5' 4-1/2" inches beam and 6-1/2 inches draft. A 10 or 12 hp. outboard motor will provide ample power for her to slide along at 16 or 17 mile per hour. The engine is hung on the transom. A long tiller can be arranged to steer the boat from the center thwart, These Atkin designs have some rocker to the bottom and too much of that can be a bad thing for a power boat as they will tend to sit with the bow in the air. Atkin's suggestion of a tiller extension might be an admission as well as a suggestion to keep the crew weight forward.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

shombolly,
Look at the keel line. If it's rockered all the way back to the transom it's a displacement hull and won't pay off with much speed increase if you mount a bigger motor.
In fact most of the boats in this thread are displacement hulls and are bound by the laws of hydrodynamics to plug along at hull speeds.
That last boat, the Atkins, looks like it's made from real thick lumber and may require a 10 horse just to get up to hull speed.
Charlie

[Steve Miller]

No plywood sort of rules out lots of boats. Were traditional construction clinker or carvel or ? designs ever meant to plane since they seem to predate bigger lighter outboards?

If you can get into ply then Glen-L has a number of nice small boats built S&G or ply on frame that will take 10 or 15 hsp easily. I built the Utility Skiff and it planes my big butt very well with a 1987 Evinrude 10. They have similar boats at most any length or size you would want. I like the Glen-L designs since they have a full hull shape designed to work well with good power. They are not rowing skiffs that only need a 5 hsp. This boat was built for my daughter and will have wheel steering and remote throttle added this winter. A longer 13 or 14' boat would be better able to handle a big skipper sitting farther back.

http://www.hevanet.com/kg7pv/Utility/3747.jpg

http://www.hevanet.com/kg7pv/Utility/3767.jpg

[ 11-02-2005, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: Steve Miller ]

[Rick Tyler]

I assumed that the original poster said "no plywood" as an aesthetic choice. If he said that in the belief that he would end up with a stronger boat, he is, of course, mistaken. In fact, a planked boat would be hard-pressed to be stronger than a plywood-cored hull covered in a couple of layers of 45/45 biaxial fiberglass. The composite hull would be lighter, too.

I respect an aesthetic choice to go with a lumber boat, but you do have to remember that small, lightweight outboard-powered boats coincide with the growth of the popularity of plywood. Most small traditional hull designs were meant for the large, heavy, low-horsepower, slow-turning engines of the Good Old Days.

That's not to say that there aren't boat plans like this available, it's just that they aren't as easy to find. Part of this might have to do with the perceived market for amateur boat plans. If I just wanted to build my own outboard-powered fishing boat, I would think that I am more likely to care more about getting the boat done than in pursuing some pure design aesthetic. Modern designers use plywood (and aluminum and fiberglass) because they are cost-effective materials that amateurs can use to successfully build boats without a five-year apprenticeship in traditional methods. It's not really a question of right and wrong -- just one of priorities. I know you all knew this already, so thanks for reading.

[JimD]

Weston Farmer's Badger. 15'1" x 4'3". Plans at Duckworks Boat Builders Supply

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid193/p85f0f57a7c286c5a287f098a2a45a66e/f1938571.jpg

[BrianY]

Weston Farmer's Badger. 15'1" x 4'3". Plans at Duckworks Boat Builders Supply Plans are also available through D.N. Goodchild (http://dngoodchild.com/l1_index.htm Plan#5729)for less than 1/10 the cost at Duckworks.

[Capricious]

Weston Farmer's Badger. 15'1" x 4'3". Plans at Duckworks Boat Builders Supply
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Plans are also available through D.N. Goodchild (http://dngoodchild.com/l1_index.htm Plan#5729)for less than 1/10 the cost at Duckworks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Weston Farmer plans I have purchased from
Duckworks are the full-size drawings: I believe
that Goodchild is selling small-scale magazine article reprints.

[BrianY]

Yes the Goodchild plans are magazine reprints - I have them - but all of the info that you really need is there. The plans and Gardner's Dory Book should be more than enough to build it. I don't know what's in the full scale plans though. There is one drawing reproduced ( a detail) on the Duckworks site that's not included in the Goodchild plans. I just printed it off and stuck in the Goodchild plans.

Anyway if you're considering building the boat, you could think of the Goodchild plans as a super duper study plans pack.