How to rescue near-new batteries.

[sandingblock]

I've just brought a boat that has been sitting for some time, and it has four Trojan batteries (130 Amp hour) that appear to be nearly new.

They are dead flat, presumably self discharged, and I want to charge them back up. The boat also came with a TrueCharge 20 charger that seems to have all the bells 'n' whisles.

Whats the best approach here, just charge them back up? Or use the 'equalization' mode?

Any help appreciated,

Jonny.

[carioca1232001]

I have a request somewhat related to sandingblock´s.

The end date for my boat refurbishment has overstepped the mark by 2 months, not an unusual case for wooden-boats.

I bought 3 (three) new lead-acid batteries in the beginning of December that are just sitting there.

How long before they clap out under these conditions ?

What do I need to do ? Connect up a charger ?

[Uncle Duke]

I think that the common wisdom is to slow-charge them back up - use a trickle charger and just let it happen over the course of a day or two. Absolutely avoid boiling the juices. Once charged back up you can do a load test if you're concerned. I wouldn't worry about any of the above batteries - Trojans are about as robust a battery as there is on the planet, and batteries which are new, but discharged, won't show any degradation of the plates.
Slow-charge, keep a trickle charger on them one day a week or so, declare victory and move on.

[carioca1232001]

Uncle Duke, First many thanks.

I tried to recuperate the last lot of lead-acid batteries leaving a trickle-charger connected to them PERMANENTLY. I had connected the batteries in paralell.

All was well, there voltages were around 13 Volts when measured individually.

But one fine day one of the batteries started to boil over....??????... its voltage started dropping and the charger was turned off. Latter battery was discarded. The other two remaining batteries failed the load test.

So do Inow connect the brand-new lot of three batteries in paralell and then a trickle charger to this assembly, just one day a week ?

Then undo the paralell connection and disconnect the charger ?

Repeat every week ?

The charger may not be left permanently connected to the three brand-new batteries in paralell ?

Please advise.

[kc8pql]

They are dead flat, presumably self discharged, and I want to charge them back up. The boat also came with a TrueCharge 20 charger that seems to have all the bells 'n' whisles.

Whats the best approach here, just charge them back up? Or use the 'equalization' mode?

First check all the cells and top up any that are low on electrolite. Assuming all the bells and whistles means an automatic three stage charger, just go ahead and run a full charge cycle. After the charging is complete disconnect the charger (or just turn it off if it's wired that way) and check the voltage. It should be about 13.2 volts or so. Let them sit for about 24 hours with no load and check the voltage again. If they took a full charge, the voltage should stabilize at about 12.8 volts with no load. If it does, you're in good shape and need do nothing else. Check the cells again and top up any low ones. Equalization should only be run on an already fully charged battery bank. If the batteries aren't holding a full charge, it could be because they are sulfated. In that case running an equalization cycle may help. If they still don't take a full charge you may have a bad cell. You can check this by comparing the specific gravity in each cell. If you find a bad one, the battery should be replaced. It's best to replace all the batteries in a bank at once rather than just one battery in a group.

[sandingblock]

Excellent, that's what I needed to know. Thanks a lot.

[boylesboats]

Sound like one or more of them batteries have dead cells, there nothing that you could do with dead cells, but junk the battery...
I used to work for Johnson Controls, that how I knows... I have batteries, sat idle for a whole year, off the ground and concrete, on the bench.. It still full of charge...
When storing your batteries, never let it sit directly on the ground..

[pcford]

Sound like one or more of them batteries have dead cells, there nothing that you could do with dead cells, but junk the battery...
I used to work for Johnson Controls, that how I knows... I have batteries, sat idle for a whole year, off the ground and concrete, on the bench.. It still full of charge...
When storing your batteries, never let it sit directly on the ground..

Isn't the "keep 'em off the concrete" an old wife's tale or at least has to do with the way batteries were made sixty years ago.

Not arguing, just askin'.

[boylesboats]

Isn't the "keep 'em off the concrete" an old wife's tale or at least has to do with the way batteries were made sixty years ago.

Not arguing, just askin'.
This is a strange subject; I don't know how its drain the battery down, but it still does today...
My son just put his brand spanking new battery on the ground one day, just for one day... It is deader than the door nail by the time he put back in the car after repair job.. The battery is still good thou, just charge it up slowly.. Still going strong...
By the way, repair job was replacing his valve covers for the chrome ones...

[George Ray]

http://www.trojan-battery.com/Tech-Support/FAQ.aspx
• Storing a battery on concrete will discharge it quicker?
Long ago, when battery cases were made out of natural rubber, this was true. Now, however, battery cases are made of polypropylene or other modern materials that allow a battery to be stored anywhere. A battery’s rate of discharge is affected by its construction, its age, and the ambient temperature. The main issue with storing on concrete is that if the battery leaks, the concrete will be damaged.

******************

http://www.powerstream.com/Storage.htm
Flooded Lead Acid Battery Storage

Trojan: Periods of inactivity can be extremely harmful to lead acid batteries. When placing a battery into storage, follow the recommendations below to insure that the battery remains healthy and ready for use.

NOTE: Storing, charging or operating batteries on concrete is perfectly OK. The most important things to avoid:

1. Freezing. Avoid locations where freezing temperature is expected. Keeping battery at a high state of charge will also prevent freezing. Freezing results in irreparable damage to battery's plates and container. [Freezing can happen between -19 F (40% charge) and -98 F (fully charged)]
2. Heat. Avoid direct exposure to heat sources, such as radiators or space heaters. Temperatures above 80° F accelerate the battery's self-discharge characteristics.
3. Step by step storage procedure: 1. Completely charge the battery before storing. 2. Store the battery in a cool, dry location, protected from the elements. 3. During storage, monitor the specific gravity (flooded) or voltage. Batteries in storage should be given a boost charge when they show a 70% charge or less. Completely charge the battery before re-activating.

For optimum performance, equalize the batteries (flooded) before putting them back into service. Refer to the Equalizing section for this procedure.

Continental Battery Storage:
Q: Will a battery rapidly self discharge if placed on concrete?
A: No, placing a battery on concrete will not cause it to discharge any faster than any other surface.
Q: Can I store a battery indefinitely?
A: No, a battery will self-discharge slowly over time. Allowing a battery to sit in a discharged state will ultimately lead to severe positive grid corrosion and battery failure. An unused battery should never be allowed to sit over 6 months without a recharge.

**************************

CAR AND DEEP CYCLE BATTERY FAQ

http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/index.htm
http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/Eurobat.jpg

[boylesboats]

Well I'll be damn!
I don't know it if true or not... I have worked around batteries at Johnson Controls in the 80's, we're told keep it off the concrete.. Straight acid can break down concrete like water does to sand castle...

[carioca1232001]

Thanks George Ray. The above data stipulate 6 months as the (inactivity) limit for new batteries.

My charger is just a 12V nominal /10 Amp unit with a transistor series regulator on the output.

Can these simpler chargers ruin a battery if left permanently connected, have them boil over etc ?

The fancy ones - with one, two or three independent outputs - claim they are designed to be left permanently connected, thus keeping the charge topped up and still not damage them.

Is this just "sales talk" for an extra 200-300 dollars expenditure, or is their substance in it ?

Anyone with experience in this matter on WBF ?

[Andrew]

What is meant by Equalizing?

Is it advisable to put batteries in parallel? t would seem that a bad battery would have an adverse effect on one in parallel with it.

[carioca1232001]

I believe the equalizing charge is when you step up the charging voltage such that you read 13,8 Volts DC with the charger connected to the battery - right ? (2,3 Volts per element)

The floating charge is when you gradually bring the battery volatge up to 13,2 Volts DC - right ? (2,15 to 2,2 Volts per element)

Correct, connecting a defective-battery in paralell with a new battery does not make sense.

If the batteries are brand new, and ignoring small differencs in the state of charge between them, perhaps it is not unacceptable to connect them in paralell and charge them ?

Do the fancy chargers deliver as promised in the sales literature ?

[Thorne]

The newer 'smart' chargers are designed to be left permanently connected to the battery or battery bank (an important distinction!). There was a recent thread here on just this topic. I don't recommend the West Marine branded ones with the fan and clip-storage, as the fan runs 7/24 even when the batteries are fully charged and the charger is in the Off setting.

The $60 ones seem to have 4 settings - High, Low, Trickle, and Off. Here's my pick of the litter, available from Waste Marine -
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/14756/0/0/battery%20charger/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0
http://images.westmarine.com/full/guestcharger1236413_f.jpg
Portable, three-stage electronic chargers feature built-in thermal and overload protection, reverse polarity protection and LED ready indicators. Prewired with a 6 ft. AC cord and 4 ft. DC outputs. Alligator clips can be left connected indefinitely.
Number of Outputs: One
Automatic Functions: 3-stage charge regimen
Status Indicators: LED
Input Wiring: 6’ AC power cord
Output Wiring: 4’lead with alligator clips
Safety Features: Waterproof, shockproof, ignition protected, reverse polarity protected, vibration protected, DC fusing
Waterproof: Yes
Case Size/Material: ABS Plastic
Warranty: Two Years

More complex is banks of batteries -- you'll need to know how they are connected and how to charge them. See a dealer, battery website, or other resource (Minn Kota has a lot of info).

I don't see any reason why, in a pinch, you couldn't disconnect batteries in a bank and hook 'em up to a standard single-battery smart charger. But for repeat charging, you'll need something that can handle the entire bank -- also regulators/controllers for same.
http://images.westmarine.com/full/7779879.jpg
XC Battery Chargers provide longer battery life by independently controlling the charge profile for each battery bank. The XC is the first “smart” charger that can charge up to 3 different battery chemistries simultaneously, a microprocessor-controlled multi-stage charger with settings for flooded, gel, AGM, lead-calcium or custom battery types. This unique multiplex design means that boaters can choose the optimal battery type for each application on their boat without concern about battery damage from either under- or overcharging. Designed for marine use, they are versatile enough to be used in a wide variety of conditions and locations. Auto-ranging AC input voltage capability (100-260VAC) makes traveling abroad and handling poor quality power a breeze. The easy-to-read digital display is invertible to accommodate either horizontal or vertical installations, and can be detached and mounted wherever needed. An optional intelligent shunt provides a simple “fuel gauge” capability that displays amp-hours consumed from a selected battery bank. Includes battery equalization setting and independent temperature compensation for each bank, unique drip-proof design. Can charge "dead" batteries with voltage below 6V. 4 1/4" x 9 5/8" x 14 3/4"
Number of Outputs: Three
Automatic Functions: Smart multi-stage charging and temp. sensing
User Selectable Functions: 2 stage, 3 stage, or custom charging, AGM, PBCa Gel, or flooded battery type on any channel
Status Indicators: Charger status/ charge current lights
Temperature Compensation: 3 independent channels (one sensor included, additional sensors required)
Input Wiring: M6 Studs
Output Wiring: Hardwire
Safety Features: Fuse-less reverse polarity protection, ignition protection, over-voltage/over-temp
Remote Available: Invertible/detachable digital remote panel included
Approvals: Meets CSA 107.2, UL 1564, UL 1236 including Marine Supplement, Ignition Protection, EMC FCC Class B, CE
Warranty: Two years

[carioca1232001]

Mine is not a luxury motor yacht or sub, so all I have is 3 (three), 12 V DC (nominal)/120 AH, wet, lead-acid batteries - no battery banks !

If you look at Defender´s web site, they have an assortment of 80-350 dollar 'smart' chargers that have from 1 (one) to 3 (three) independent outputs.

My actual charger dos not have any adjustments on it, and on my on-board installation, a simple rotary switch on the charger output directs charging curent to any one battery.

Using my on-board battery switches, I am able to (effectively)connect up the charger to two or more batteries in paralell.

But my boat has been on the hard since August 2004 - a long time !
I am at most times "nearly about to finish", but there is always something extra to do.The inside is semi-gutted, but every day it is consistently getting to look more like a boat normally does, not an unfamiliar story on WBF.

If I did get a 'smart' charger, I would want it with 3 (three) outputs, less hassle switching things around and more sailing time - wouldn´t you agree ?!

Have you BTDT with 'smart' chargers ?

[carioca1232001]

Our two last postings crossed, or you did an edit of your first mail and added a 3 output charger on display is a space-age one, with capability for differing battery chemistries (types) !

My needs are modest and value-for-money is my aim.

[Thorne]

I'm certainly no battery expert, but I'd say that if you have more than one battery onboard, and they are connected to each other, you have a battery bank.

Since you have the manual switch, a single-battery charger should work fine. But if you want to leave a charger connected all the time and not do any manual switching, yes you'll need a charger that can handle your parallel battery bank configuration. That more than triples the cost -- check the Waste Marine site or Minn Kota site for more details.