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WillW
02-08-2007, 04:10 PM
...according to CNN.

Claudia
02-08-2007, 04:14 PM
Geez....

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/08/anna.nicole.collapses/index.html

John of Phoenix
02-08-2007, 04:17 PM
Poor tortured soul. Age 39.

RIP, indeed.

Concordia...41
02-08-2007, 04:18 PM
Aw. :(

Like her or or not, it's a shame.

- M

Phillip Allen
02-08-2007, 04:19 PM
wonder what got her?

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 04:22 PM
have we lost something here?

PatCox
02-08-2007, 04:22 PM
2 PM in the Hard Rock Hotel, sounds like she woke up dead, as we used to say, or at least her druggie companions found her when they roused from their stupor at 2 pm.

She was just gorgeous though. Sad, so sad. Some sex objects transcend being just sex objects, like Marilyn Monroe, thats who she reminded me of. Pure physical beauty.

LeeG
02-08-2007, 04:22 PM
keerist, with a few month newborn

LeeG
02-08-2007, 04:24 PM
have we lost something here?


another national treasure

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 04:31 PM
Good one Lee. I'll grieve for Hester the cat, feel John Bells pain, and thank the gods that be that ANS won't be around to raise her baby.

Claudia
02-08-2007, 04:34 PM
Good one Lee. I'll grieve for Hester the cat, feel John Bells pain, and thank the gods that be that ANS won't be around to raise her baby.

This woman has family that loves her...Jesus....is there a heart in you somewhere. OK, so you didn't care much for her. Then don't say anything at all!!!!:mad:

geeman
02-08-2007, 04:37 PM
I didnt care for her or her lifestyle but jeeeeeeeeez saying its a good thing shes dead? My GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She was a mother,,,,,,,,,,,,,,she was somebodies MOTHER for Gods sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PatCox
02-08-2007, 04:38 PM
Hey, Claudia, I at least am devastated. Another item on my "to do" list that I will never get to. And to be serious, she was not intelligent, really profoundly not intelligent, but blessed with beauty, probably never really in control of her life or fully comprehending it all. But she had a charisma, she shone. It is sad.

Phillip Allen
02-08-2007, 04:39 PM
I suspect she had her own private hell to live in...I won't waste energy being angry with her (she's outa time to fix anything now)...RIP indeed

ishmael
02-08-2007, 04:45 PM
Hm, wasn't she in the middle of a potential murder investigation involving her son? More than meets the eye hereabouts, methinks.

I don't make light of, or rejoice in, anyone's passing.

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 04:45 PM
Lotta heart here C! I've just come around to believing that just because humans have evolved to be the highest on the food chain does not make them all worth caring about . I care far more about all the thousands of poor critters that have been killed today because we humans can't handle them than some bitch with notoriety.

LeeG
02-08-2007, 04:48 PM
her 20yr old son OD'd a few months ago when she was giving birth.

John of Phoenix
02-08-2007, 04:56 PM
A brief history -
The stepson [of tycoon hubby Marshall] died June 20, 2006 at age 67. But the family said the court fight would continue.

Daniel Smith died Sept. 10, 2006 in his motherís hospital room in the Bahamas, just days after she gave birth to a daughter.

An American medical examiner hired by the family, Cyril Wecht, said he had methadone and two antidepressants in his system when he died. Low levels of the three drugs interacted to cause an accidental death, Wecht said.

Meanwhile, the paternity of her now 5-month-old daughter remained a matter of dispute.

She was born Vickie Lynn Hogan on Nov. 28, 1967, in Houston, one of six children of Donald Eugene and Virgie Hart Hogan.

She married Bill Smith in 1985, giving birth to Daniel before divorcing two years later.

Katherine
02-08-2007, 05:06 PM
MichiganGeorge, you are heartless. Just because she made mistakes does not make her any less deserving of basic human compassion.

jack grebe
02-08-2007, 05:06 PM
bummer........

jack grebe
02-08-2007, 05:06 PM
MichiganGeorge, you are heartless. Just because she made mistakes does not make her any less deserving of basic human compassion.
like talkin to a wall:rolleyes:

Gary E
02-08-2007, 05:10 PM
Wow... I have a Son just on month older than she....
39 is too young to go Marilyn Monroe was 36

geeman
02-08-2007, 05:11 PM
I agree with Kate here, let us all who have never made mistakes be the 1st to throw stones. She made mistakes, the difference is hers were open to the world.Most of ours are known only to us.

Gary E
02-08-2007, 05:13 PM
MichiganGeorge, you are heartless. Just because she made mistakes does not make her any less deserving of basic human compassion.

I dont know if she made mistakes...
but I can imagine she made J Howard Marshall realllll happy for awhile...

mariner2k
02-08-2007, 05:14 PM
True it is sad to see anybody die. In the big picture she was a harmless soul. But to take a turn to the left....The media is gong to be on this story for a while. What bothers me is that more soldiers and innocents will die in Iraq today. What brings this to mind is that I met a nurse today while visiting my mother in the hospital. She said she had been out of work for a while....then she showed me why. She pulled out a locket from around her neck which had a picture of her son in his army helmet. What makes this worse is that he committed suicide....attributed to post traumatic stress. 15 months later her neighbors son did the same thing, for the same reason. Don't really want to get off the subject of Ms. Smith but it bothers me that it will be the top story, taking over the diaper wearing astronaut. ANS, RIP
(Sorry for the rant)

geeman
02-08-2007, 05:18 PM
I agree that theres plenty of condolences to go around lately.If we 've learned nothing else in the last year or so, is that life is or can be too darn short, and we waste most of it.

Memphis Mike
02-08-2007, 05:19 PM
Good one Lee. I'll grieve for Hester the cat, feel John Bells pain, and thank the gods that be that ANS won't be around to raise her baby.


What a sorry waste of human flesh.

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 05:21 PM
MichiganGeorge, you are heartless. Just because she made mistakes does not make her any less deserving of basic human compassion.

Katherine, please explain this "basic human compassion" thing to me. I gotta hunch this is some holy rollin, hands in the air, Jesus save me, I'll go pray for her soul deal. You probably support GW killing a bunch of Iraqis today but this useless bitch deserves your compassion. Save your grief for all of your out of work co-workers

Katherine
02-08-2007, 05:21 PM
Glad to see that some of you are so damned perfect.:rolleyes:

geeman
02-08-2007, 05:27 PM
I'd like to be able to help Kate more here but I'm so mad I'd probably say way too much.What a sorry group of humans some here are.

Katherine
02-08-2007, 05:29 PM
Don't worry about it Geeman. Anyone who really knows me, knows what I'm like.

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 05:29 PM
I'm always amazed at how the lemmings fall into lock-step. Do'nt any of you have the cojones to say what you really feel?

Backfin
02-08-2007, 05:30 PM
This is a sad, pathetic thread. I'm embarrassed.

Gary E
02-08-2007, 05:30 PM
Katherine, please explain this "basic human compassion" thing to me. I gotta hunch this is some holy rollin, hands in the air, Jesus save me, I'll go pray for her soul deal. You probably support GW killing a bunch of Iraqis today but this useless bitch deserves your compassion. Save your grief for all of your out of work co-workers

Someone piss in your cornflakes today?

Katherine
02-08-2007, 05:31 PM
Do'nt any of you have the cojones to say what you really feel?I did.

Concordia...41
02-08-2007, 05:31 PM
Two words:

Oh brother... :rolleyes:

Katherine
02-08-2007, 05:33 PM
It's the weather up here Margo. It's making people a little nuts. Too cold to really even leave the house unless you have too.

Concordia...41
02-08-2007, 05:33 PM
I'm always amazed at how the lemmings fall into lock-step. Do'nt any of you have the cojones to say what you really feel?

Your posts are not worth the energy of a detailed response.

FWI, I am not a lemming and compassion is a virtue, not something to be mocked.

Gary E
02-08-2007, 05:33 PM
2 more words....

GEORGE.... F O

or is that 3 ?

John Most
02-08-2007, 05:35 PM
Why do we feel the need for compassion for a person who we never met, who had all that life had to offer and squandered it away? I am afraid I tend to side with Michigan george, though I certainly wouldnt ever wish anyone dead but an enemy who might do me or mine harm. I'd kill a person who I caught harming one of my animals. And with great prejudice.

We dont all hear the same beat being played by the drummer.

Backfin
02-08-2007, 05:37 PM
Please re-read Mariner2K's post.

hokiefan
02-08-2007, 05:37 PM
I'm always amazed at how the lemmings fall into lock-step. Do'nt any of you have the cojones to say what you really feel?

As a child, my mother taught me, "If you can't think of anything nice to say, then say nothing at all."

As to you, Michigangeorge, I have nothing to say.

Bobby

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 05:37 PM
That would be three- a well thought and concise reply.

Bob Cleek
02-08-2007, 05:40 PM
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/06/24/knANNA_NICOLE_narrowweb__300x417,0.jpg

Now, everyone is deserving of our love and compassion simply because they are fellow human beings. That said, there is nothing wrong with being judgmental about other people's BEHAVIOR, and particularly so when they make themselves the objects of public interest in the course of their business.

Frankly, however valuable her humanity might be in the abstract, her behavior distinguished her as quintessential white trash. Her conduct was an insult to women everywhere. It's a shame that she died, as it is for the living when anyone goes. I can't say, though, that Ms. Smith left any lasting legacy of value to anyone and the "news" of her death is certain to be as tasteless as was the "news" of her life.

Oh, and for those who are interested, the above picture is of Ms. Smith celebrating the DEATH of her late husband's son, who had challenged her interest in his father's estate....

Claudia
02-08-2007, 05:41 PM
I do believe what upset everyone is the comment that he was glad she was dead and would not be around to raise her child.
Nobody was taking a collection to send flowers, nor were we shedding tears. What was said is not your normal run of the mill comment to make over anyones death.

brockway
02-08-2007, 05:41 PM
Would he think the same if that was his sister or daughter who died?

No matter how infamous a person is?

Thank God your alive and some what in control:rolleyes:

Gary E
02-08-2007, 05:43 PM
I'm bringing SEXY back

dreamer....

John Most
02-08-2007, 05:47 PM
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/06/24/knANNA_NICOLE_narrowweb__300x417,0.jpg

Now, everyone is deserving of our love and compassion simply because they are fellow human beings. That said, there is nothing wrong with being judgmental about other people's BEHAVIOR, and particularly so when they make themselves the objects of public interest in the course of their business.

Frankly, however valuable her humanity might be in the abstract, her behavior distinguished her as quintessential white trash. Her conduct was an insult to women everywhere. It's a shame that she died, as it is for the living when anyone goes. I can't say, though, that Ms. Smith left any lasting legacy of value to anyone and the "news" of her death is certain to be as tasteless as was the "news" of her life.

White trash? Must be a term that the high and mighty dreamed up to make themselves feel better about themselves. Sort of like calling a black person a nigger.

Phillip Allen
02-08-2007, 05:51 PM
TIMEOUT everyone...(I'm going out to the shop and drill some holes)

Gary E
02-08-2007, 05:51 PM
White trash? Must be a term that the high and mighty dreamed up to make themselves feel better about themselves. Sort of like calling a black person a nigger.

__________________
I'm bringing SEXY back!!!! :)



YOU ARE F O S

and a Dreamer

Milo Christensen
02-08-2007, 06:01 PM
I never knew much about her or paid any attention to her until I saw this picture of her leaving the Supreme Court. On any page that this picture was on, my eyes stopped there. Arrestingly beautiful.

Unfortunately, the sleazy pictures will far outnumber the ones like this. Whenever I see this picture I wonder was she trying to get herself together at long last?

We had a thread here when it was announced that she was depressed after the death of her son and she was trashed and defended then as well.

http://www.nbc5.com/2007/0208/10964941.jpg

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 06:06 PM
Your posts are not worth the energy of a detailed response.

FWI, I am not a lemming and compassion is a virtue, not something to be mocked.

Compassion is a wonderful thing for those deserving of it. Your lack of ability to provide a justifiable response says more about the feminine compassion for this poor individule than well thought insight into her value to society let alone what her lack of values have projected on our young women.
.
.

Memphis Mike
02-08-2007, 06:08 PM
"We had a thread here when it was announced that she was depressed after the death of her son and she was trashed and defended then as well."

Yeah I started that thread as a joke, Milo. I stated later that I didn't know she had lost a child.

I was wondering when you were going to come into this one and rub my nose in it.

I confessed. You feel better now, jerk?

Milo Christensen
02-08-2007, 06:14 PM
...You feel better now, jerk?

Not really. Do you? I'm sorry you still bear ill will about that thread.

Katherine
02-08-2007, 06:14 PM
Compassion is a wonderful thing for those deserving of it. Your lack of ability to provide a justifiable response says more about the feminine compassion for this poor individule than well thought insight into her value to society let alone what her lack of values have projected on our young women.
.
.Please forgive us for not rejoicing in another's misfortune.

David Tabor (sailordave)
02-08-2007, 06:22 PM
Katherine, please explain this "basic human compassion" thing to me.


but this useless bitch deserves your compassion. Save your grief for all of your out of work co-workers

Just about everyone deserves basic human compassion, even some of the lowlifes that post here...


I think ANS was tasteless and tacky;:p doesn't mean we have to celebrate her passing or make cruel comments.

Jeez, and to think just yesterday I commented on how nice the Bilge had been lately. Maybe some of y'all need to go read the Meerkat threads for a little attitude adjustment.:mad:

Flying Orca
02-08-2007, 06:27 PM
I had to resort to Wikipedia to find out who she was (I don't think I've ever seen her in Scientific American or The Economist, and I avoid TV like the plague). I'm not sure why this is getting everyone's knickers in a bunch. Former Playboy model dies? Must happen all the time.:confused:

Bob Cleek
02-08-2007, 06:28 PM
So where were all you bleeding hearts when Saddam got his neck stretched? How come nobody felt sorry for him, but they're all broken up about the passing of this walking petri dish?

Phillip Allen
02-08-2007, 06:29 PM
Compassion, whether deserved or not, is good for the giver...to carry one's anger like a sword will cut the user more than the focus of the anger...

Bill R
02-08-2007, 06:32 PM
I am not a fan of hers. Never was, although I admit she was a beautiful physical specimen. Unlike some people in the world news recently, she was relatively harmless. What about the poor infant she left behind?

michigangeorge, I feel your statements above qualify you for the a$$h*le of the day award.

David Tabor (sailordave)
02-08-2007, 06:33 PM
Why do we feel the need for compassion for a person who we never met, who had all that life had to offer and squandered it away?


Those are precisely the ones that NEED our compassion the most. The virtuous don't NEED our compassion. What is so great about giving compassion and empathy to those who don't need it? That's easy... The hard part in life is to be able to care about those who have made bad choices or lived a less than perfect life.


Funny thing is there are people on this forum who have posted some pretty nasty things to Meerkat over the years, yet I don't here them kicking him now that he's down... That pretty much sums up compassion.

(off my soapbox now)

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 06:39 PM
[QUOTE=Bill R;1498053]I am not a fan of hers. Never was, although I admit she was a beautiful physical specimen.
Not too shallow an outlook, eh Bill? Would it be easier to handle if she was ugly?

David Tabor (sailordave)
02-08-2007, 06:40 PM
So where were all you bleeding hearts when Saddam got his neck stretched? How come nobody felt sorry for him, but they're all broken up about the passing of this walking petri dish?


I almost made a reference to this a minute ago... If there was ever someone deserving of the death penalty, Saddam was one. HOWEVER, I don't think that execution was anything more than a lynching... and I don't think it will change one damn thing in IRAQ...

And yes I felt a wee bit of compassion for the guy; I think it speaks poorly of society in general when we feel the need to kill someone. Period.:(

Concordia...41
02-08-2007, 06:40 PM
So where were all you bleeding hearts when Saddam got his neck stretched? How come nobody felt sorry for him, but they're all broken up about the passing of this walking petri dish?

I don't think anybody here is broken up over it, but I must have missed the part where The Hague ruled that Ms. Smith committed genocide... :rolleyes:


The Hague - A Dutch court on Friday ruled that Saddam Hussein committed genocide against Iraqi Kurds in the 1980s, but acquitted a Dutch chemicals trader of aiding the crime because he did not know the Iraqi regime's genocidal intentions.

Edited to add:

This was saved to my hard drive and titled (I kid you not) - "Winning by Cleek" :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid224/p49331880f32ac424a21738f9a0407742/eabfcf23.jpg

Tylerdurden
02-08-2007, 06:45 PM
She wasn't my type, But she was a good looking woman none the less and she did have charisma. God rest her soul no matter how she lived. Is there anyone alive to day who isn't messed up in their own special way? I am sure the media types are drooling over this story so I will stay away from the idiot box lest I get pissed.

Milo Christensen
02-08-2007, 06:45 PM
Flying Orca:


"The perception of beauty is a moral test." - HDT

How we (bilge rats) doing on this thread? Getting passing grades are we?

Claudia
02-08-2007, 06:46 PM
MICHIGANGEORGE.....
http://www.evilkid.com/licensing/sadkitty/graphics/madkitty/asshole.jpg

May get scotted for this one.

MattL
02-08-2007, 06:46 PM
I never thought myuch about her either. My personal view is that all entertaners are over rated. Kind of makes me think about Douglas Adams view of the hair dresser sort in "The Hitchers Guide to the Universe." I didn't know she had a relationship with Stern. Not to fond of him either, but think he is far from being dumb. This makes me think that her public personality and intelect could be far different than actual.
I feel that any death of a young or younger person is tragic. Over the week end a 17 year old girl in our area was killed in an auto accident. I didn't know her but the news paper article led me to beleive that she was a great kid, I feel sorry for her family too. I don't really believe in all the religious clap trap that gets spread. I believe that people should be good to others and treat them as you'd like to be treated. So I do feel sorry for ANS and her family. And I'd even feel just as sorry for Michigan Georges family if he ends up dead in the morning from a heart attack or something.

Bill R
02-08-2007, 06:50 PM
michigangeorge- her looks have nothing to do with my outlook. Whether she was ugly or not, I would still not have been a fan of hers. And, her looks had nothing to do with the fact that she left a very young child behind. She deserves some respect, because despite what choices she made in life, she was still human- someone's daughter, someone's wife, and someone's daughter.

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 06:53 PM
MICHIGANGEORGE.....
http://www.evilkid.com/licensing/sadkitty/graphics/madkitty/asshole.jpg

May get scotted for this one.

Just an example of why I married an intelligent, caring professional women instead of one searching for her jollies on a Woodenboat forum.

Tar Devil
02-08-2007, 06:55 PM
I have no idea what kind of person ANS really was. I therefore have no cause to characterize her.

I do, however, now know what kind of person michigangeorge is.

Later,

Phil

Flying Orca
02-08-2007, 06:56 PM
How we (bilge rats) doing on this thread? Getting passing grades are we?

Dangerous question, Milo. ;)

I will say this: I don't see anything particularly beautiful about the dead woman, the things she did while she was alive, or the society that made her what she was only to exchange breathless titillated gossip over the things she did.

The whole thing, right down to the discussion here, strikes me as more sad than anything else.

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 07:03 PM
michigangeorge- her looks have nothing to do with my outlook. Whether she was ugly or not, I would still not have been a fan of hers. And, her looks had nothing to do with the fact that she left a very young child behind. She deserves some respect, because despite what choices she made in life, she was still human- someone's daughter, someone's wife, and someone's daughter.

Why Bill? Why does she deserve some respect? What did she ever do to deserve YOUR respect? She was born- she lived- so what? There are MILLIONs of better people just in Africa alone who are dying as we speak and you give a s**t about this sleezy bitch who made millions that could have saved thousands of lives! She died going to buy a yacht- something tells me it was'nt wooden!

JimD
02-08-2007, 07:08 PM
Compassion is a wonderful thing for those deserving of it...

Sounds like its a good idea that you're miserly with your compassion. You obviously don't have much to pass around.

Memphis Mike
02-08-2007, 07:11 PM
Just an example of why I married an intelligent, caring professional women instead of one searching for her jollies on a Woodenboat forum.

I pity your wife. Apparently she's married to an uncaring, hateful bastard.

Tylerdurden
02-08-2007, 07:12 PM
Just an example of why I married an intelligent, caring professional women instead of one searching for her jollies on a Woodenboat forum.
http://www.anniescostumes.com/dominatrix.jpg

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 07:24 PM
Ah, the concern of the holy! Whats the matter Rev, they did'nt throw enough in when you passed the hat this week?

John of Phoenix
02-08-2007, 07:26 PM
Dutch, I'm surprised at you. You're really a compassionate soul at heart.

Leon m
02-08-2007, 07:33 PM
I hope the poor soul can find peace on the otherside RIP.

Bill R
02-08-2007, 07:41 PM
"What did she ever do to deserve YOUR respect? "

She was a human being. Same as the "MILLIONs of better people just in Africa alone who are dying as we speak".

As far as I personally am concerned, being human is all that is required for my respect, until such a point as you prove you don't deserve it. I did not know her personally, so I cannot speak to her true character, so I am giving her the benefit of the doubt.

KNOCKABOUT
02-08-2007, 07:44 PM
All I know is the paramedics lived out my Anna Nicole Smith fantasy: pounded on her chest for half an hour while pushing a tube down her throat...

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 07:50 PM
All I know is the paramedics lived out my Anna Nicole Smith fantasy: pounded on her chest for half an hour while pushing a tube down her throat...

Come on guys- this has got to make even me look good!

Leon m
02-08-2007, 07:52 PM
All I know is the paramedics lived out my Anna Nicole Smith fantasy: pounded on her chest for half an hour while pushing a tube down her throat...

Thats just terrible !...I'm really becomeing conserned about what some people think is funny these days ...thats just SICK! :(

geeman
02-08-2007, 07:59 PM
I notice instantly how you felt it necessary to mention that your wife is a PROFESSIONAL WOMAN.
Mines not, so the difference would be,,,,,,,,,,,?
All things in life cant be measured by how much money you can make.

Nanoose
02-08-2007, 08:02 PM
She died going to buy a yacht- something tells me it was'nt wooden!

So, if she'd been on her way to buy a WOODEN boat, you'd be more sympathetic?

Katherine
02-08-2007, 08:03 PM
I'm a professional woman. I make a respectable salary. I still think the woman and her family deserve some compassion.

Nanoose
02-08-2007, 08:04 PM
Well, the bilge rats are living up to their name today, eh?

John Most
02-08-2007, 08:04 PM
Seems to me that as usual the "in group" of the bilge is bashing anyone who doesnt fit into their little mold of what constitutes intelligent thought.

What a bunch of arse wipes.

Claudia
02-08-2007, 08:05 PM
Katherine, I think geeman was referring to the dig at me.

Phillip Allen
02-08-2007, 08:07 PM
HEY! I'm being good!

David Tabor (sailordave)
02-08-2007, 08:07 PM
I didn't know she had a relationship with Stern. Not to fond of him either, but think he is far from being dumb. This makes me think that her public personality and intelect could be far different than actual.


Her husband was not THAT Howard Stern...:p Her husband was a lawyer... Not sure that he was any farther up the evolutionary food chain then the other Howard Stern though...:rolleyes:

Leon m
02-08-2007, 08:09 PM
Seems to me that as usual the "in group" of the bilge is bashing anyone who doesnt fit into their little mold of what constitutes intelligent thought.

What a bunch of arse wipes.

You can say that again...Man there's alot more PUNKS here than there used to be...How I long for the old bilge.:(

John Most
02-08-2007, 08:10 PM
I notice instantly how you felt it necessary to mention that your wife is a PROFESSIONAL WOMAN.
Mines not, so the difference would be,,,,,,,,,,,?
All things in life cant be measured by how much money you can make.

Not according to cleek. To him your poor white trash.

Katherine
02-08-2007, 08:11 PM
Katherine, I think geeman was referring to the dig at me.I know, I was just pointing out the flaw in his logic. ;)

Gary E
02-08-2007, 08:14 PM
I notice instantly how you felt it necessary to mention that your wife is a PROFESSIONAL WOMAN.
Mines not, so the difference would be,,,,,,,,,,,?
All things in life cant be measured by how much money you can make.

Hey... HOOKER's are Pro's... maybe he married one?

he didnt say WHAT KIND of Professional :)

jack grebe
02-08-2007, 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by Claudia http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?p=1498072#post1498072)
MICHIGANGEORGE.....
http://www.evilkid.com/licensing/sadkitty/graphics/madkitty/asshole.jpg

May get scotted for this one.
Just an example of why I married an intelligent, caring professional women instead of one searching for her jollies on a Woodenboat forum.

It ain't just kitty......your way out of line MICHIGANGEORGE
I'm outta here, this thread ain't worth my time

John Most
02-08-2007, 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by Claudia http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?p=1498072#post1498072)
MICHIGANGEORGE.....
http://www.evilkid.com/licensing/sadkitty/graphics/madkitty/asshole.jpg

May get scotted for this one.
Just an example of why I married an intelligent, caring professional women instead of one searching for her jollies on a Woodenboat forum.

It ain't just kitty......your way out of line MICHIGANGEORGE
I'm outta here, this thread ain't worth my time

fart

geeman
02-08-2007, 08:20 PM
No NO NOOO! I wasnt knocking professional women!!!!!!!!! I WAS referring to his statement that seemed to indicate HIS WIFE was BETTER because she was a professional woman.It just struck a cord with me .
In fact my wife used to be a professional woman, at a point in time she simply decided she didnt want to be anymore.

geeman
02-08-2007, 08:22 PM
I surely meant no disrespect to KATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nanoose
02-08-2007, 08:23 PM
Interesting thing happening here. We have the clash of 2 worldviews! For michigangeorge, humans are merely creatures that have evolved to the highest level on the food chain and that is not enough to make them all worth caring about.

For a lot of others, humans simply by the fact that they are human, have dignity, value and worth and are worthy of even some shred of respect.

Gotta print this off and take it in to school to show my class (recent lessons on worldviews). Thanks, guys! :)

Phillip Allen
02-08-2007, 08:24 PM
Interesting thing happening here. We have the clash of 2 worldviews! For michigangeorge, humans are merely creatures that have evolved to the highest level on the food chain and that is not enough to make them all worth caring about.

For a lot of others, humans simply by the fact that they are human, have dignity, value and worth and are worthy of even some shred of respect.

Gotta print this off and take it in to school to show my class (recent lessons on worldviews). Thanks, guys! :)

what do you teach again? what age?

Katherine
02-08-2007, 08:26 PM
none taken geeman:)

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 08:26 PM
I notice instantly how you felt it necessary to mention that your wife is a PROFESSIONAL WOMAN.
Mines not, so the difference would be,,,,,,,,,,,?
All things in life cant be measured by how much money you can make.

As usual, some jerk is always reading something into what I said! My wife is a HEALTH CARE professional ! A person who has devoted her whole life to caring for others. Nothing more was meant.

Phillip Allen
02-08-2007, 08:28 PM
If she cares for others then you must represent the opposing balance

Bob Cleek
02-08-2007, 08:28 PM
Knockabout wins the point for posting the first truly funny ANS joke!

Lighten up you guys. Ten years from now nobody's going to remember where they were when ANS died...

geeman
02-08-2007, 08:30 PM
Earlier in the thread I was waiting for Saddam to be mentioned and I wasnt disappointed.I knew sombody would bring his death up as a "failure" of society to feel for a reviled being.
I'm sure ANS's family would be astounded that their relative was even mentioned in the same thread

ishmael
02-08-2007, 08:30 PM
I learned, somewhere without my family's help, not to speak ill of the dead. There'll be plenty of time for labels. Quaint.

"The old bastard is finally dead!" proclaimed my grandfather one lunchtime spring in 1945. Who, who, Hitler?, asked my grandma and mother. No, bellowed Raymond, Roosevelt!

But this woman doesn't deserve such. Nowhere close. I can't speak to her personal foibles, I don't know them. She had a pretty face. I have no idea about her, she wasn't on my radar. But she's recently dead, and that's reason enough to give anyone some space of mourning.

michigangeorge
02-08-2007, 08:38 PM
Ok kids, I've had enough of messing with your heads for one day. I hope Gary and some of you other rednecks can keep your hands off your pee-pees while you dream of ANS tonight.

Phillip Allen
02-08-2007, 08:41 PM
Thank you Your Grace...

Gary E
02-08-2007, 08:43 PM
Knockabout wins the point for posting the first truly funny ANS joke!

Lighten up you guys. Ten years from now nobody's going to remember where they were when ANS died...

There's really only one day I remember exactly where I was....

..Nov 22, 1963.... Engineering Drafting class, and someone had a new fangled transistor radio..

Leon m
02-08-2007, 08:43 PM
I learned, somewhere without my family's help, not to speak ill of the dead. There'll be plenty of time for labels. Quaint.

"The old bastard is finally dead!" proclaimed my grandfather one lunchtime spring in 1945. Who, who, Hitler?, asked my grandma and mother. No, bellowed Raymond, Roosevelt!

But this woman doesn't deserve such. Nowhere close. I can't speak to her personal foibles, I don't know them. She had a pretty face. I have no idea about her, she wasn't on my radar. But she's recently dead, and that's reason enough to give anyone some space of mourning.

THANK YOU ! people these days seem to have forgotten about such things a common respect.

geeman
02-08-2007, 08:49 PM
MGeorge posted such drivel and I"M A JERK?
Thats funny.

brad9798
02-08-2007, 08:49 PM
Messing with our heads, eh ... meechigingeorge?

Why is it that simple-minded folks like the play the "I was just messing with you card" when they have exhausted any/all meaningful rebuttal to their careless posts?

Be a real man and admit that you were a bit strong in your first post ... and stop trying to be like my kids ... deflecting rebuttals to the bitter end ... then just running off.

BTW, Mgeorge, bitter end is actually a nautical term ... but you probably didn't realize that either.

:rolleyes:

Phillip Allen
02-08-2007, 08:51 PM
I thought bitter end was a knot-ical term... :)

Gary E
02-08-2007, 08:54 PM
michigangeorge (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/member.php?u=10048) http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/statusicon/user_online.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_", true);
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Petoskey, Michigan
Posts: 208


http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon1.gif unthinking remarks
watch your step ASSHOLE!


Dont threaten me you frikkin AHOLE

and no more PM's either... JERK

Phillip Allen
02-08-2007, 08:58 PM
Dont threaten me you frikkin AHOLE

and no more PM's either... JERK


I just sent him a smiley face...wish I could have a smiley with just one tooth as I am apparently a hillbilly

Dan McCosh
02-08-2007, 08:59 PM
The people who jump up on stage create a fantasy of themselves for the audience, and that is all that crowd knows of the actors. Behind the mask, and off the stage, there is a person who lives another life, and dies like all of us.

Gary E
02-08-2007, 09:00 PM
No crime in having one tooth or being a hillbilly...
it's a lot better than being whatever the hell he is...

Wild Dingo
02-08-2007, 09:02 PM
Anna Nichol Smith is meaningless to me until now Id never heard of her... thats a fact.

What they say in the linked articles tells of a truely troubled girl looking for love thinking she found it got married very young got beaten the hell out of for that love had a child left the marriage and in trying to raise her son as a single parent found a way that she could make more money than she and her son would ever need... she took it... posed nude in Playboy (is that mag still going?) and became playboy mate of the month married someone trying to find happiness and love again... and her husband died a legal fight was had where she as the legal heir to his fortune had to fight to gain her right... and was again looking for love and happiness found it again with Stern (another person Id never heard of) and had another child just after that birth of his little sister the son died next to her in the hospital bed... now shes dead

I see a sad lonely woman trying desperatly to make a life for herself and children and coming up against obsticles along the way and every time she managed to over come them... many many women the world over are doing the same thing every day many many thousands would not have chosen to do as ANS did choose SO WHAT?... we make choice so did she... she saw the opportity to make enough money to get ahead in life... not the best of ways but the only way she saw that she could do it and by god she took it... She posed nude in a stupid magazine... but a magazine that still appears to hold enough power in the entertainment business to enable this young lady the opportunity to enrich her life... in a way thats to be admired that she saw that opportunity and did decide to hell with this shyte and did it and her life took of in ways Id doubt even she could have concieved of... not many others would do the same.

Many many people the world over are facing the same battles as they try to overcome what Anna did overcome... Was she sleezy? god knows I sure dont was she a bitch no again we dont know that unless we know her personally and none here do... perhaps she was wrong with her smiling and giving the thumbs up after winning the legal case for her husbands wealth maybe she was just plain extatic! Its over! God I dont know a damned thing about her

All I know is that theres now a tiny little girl who will go through her life not knowing her mum and the person she was to overcome everything she did to bring that little girl into the world... and I dont give a flying purple rats asshole what others say THAT is sad.

The woman was just 39 years of age... far too young to die and THAT is sad

Compassion? I dont know I reckon with Anna Nichol Smith in 10 years time most would be saying Anna? Anna who? her time of fame is over her time of achievement and life is gone... give her at least a few moments of respect and if not her then at least the child she left behind her mother father sisters and friends deserve at least that :mad:

This forum in one day can show the absolute best in the human condition and then in on swift second someone can come on and show the absolute lowest... shame michaelandgeorge and John Most... shame

A young woman is dead... yes many others will die today and not attain the same notoriety and "news worthyiness" even soldiers will die young people will die old people will die africans will die australians will die FOR GODS SAKE People die!... Anna Nichol Smith was a young woman who made choices as she saw them and lived with the consequenses and has now died give the crap a bloody rest

If theres nothing good you have to say then SHUT THE F UP! :mad:

Phillip Allen
02-08-2007, 09:07 PM
Good morning Shane...nice rant and I for one am glad of it...thanks

jack grebe
02-08-2007, 09:09 PM
What they say in the linked articles tells of a truely troubled girl looking for love
I see a sad lonely woman trying desperatly to make a life for herself
The woman was just 39 years of age... far too young to die and THAT is sad

and life is gone... give her at least a few moments of respect and if not her then at least the child she left behind her mother father sisters and friends deserve at least that :mad:

This forum in one day can show the absolute best in the human condition and then in on swift second someone can come on and show the absolute lowest... shame michaelandgeorge and John Most... shame

If theres nothing good you have to say then SHUT THE F UP! :mad:


nuff said

PatCox
02-08-2007, 11:23 PM
I love you, Shane.

Mercy is not mercy if you only give it to the innocent. In that case, its only justice, mercy is a higher value. Charity is not charity if you only give it to the deserving. When the bible speaks of charity, it does not mean giving money. Charity means love and compassion for your fellow humans. It costs you nothing to give it. Only the mean and miserable and sinfully proud take upon themselves God's prerogative to judge who is worthy of lovingkindness.

I am troubled by the fact that within 3 months of her winning a Supreme Court case against a very vindictive Texas Billionaire, she and her son die mysteriously. I wonder if her son drank something meant for her. This time, it found its target.

Motive?

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
02-09-2007, 12:09 AM
She always looked blasted.
Drug overdose won't surprise me.
Loved flashing her boobs (.)(.)

I'll miss her.

bamamick
02-09-2007, 02:56 AM
May she rest in peace. May they ALL rest in peace.

Mickey Lake

Robbie
02-09-2007, 03:46 AM
[QUOTE=Wild Dingo;1498182]
This forum in one day can show the absolute best in the human condition and then in on swift second someone can come on and show the absolute lowest... shame michaelandgeorge and John Most... shame

Dingo:Thankyou for saying what I think many here think...I couldn't agree with you more....
I am truly saddened by some of the posts on this thread.
Whatever her circumstances she deserves to be left to rest with respect and dignity as do all people who pass on.
The little girl left behind will be left immensely wealthy but will this make her happy? I see many trials and problems in her future and many people trying to live off her so heres hoping she gets good help/support in the future.

Bill R
02-09-2007, 07:17 AM
Sir Dingo- Well said. Thank you.

David Tabor (sailordave)
02-09-2007, 07:31 AM
I love you, Shane.

Mercy is not mercy if you only give it to the innocent. In that case, its only justice, mercy is a higher value. Charity is not charity if you only give it to the deserving. When the bible speaks of charity, it does not mean giving money. Charity means love and compassion for your fellow humans. It costs you nothing to give it. Only the mean and miserable and sinfully proud take upon themselves God's prerogative to judge who is worthy of lovingkindness.




Pat,you said much better what I was trying to say last night!

And Shane? THANK YOU for the last sentence of your posting!!!:cool:

michigangeorge
02-09-2007, 07:43 AM
[QUOTE=Nanoose;1498145]Interesting thing happening here. We have the clash of 2 worldviews! For michigangeorge, humans are merely creatures that have evolved to the highest level on the food chain and that is not enough to make them all worth caring about.

For a lot of others, humans simply by the fact that they are human, have dignity, value and worth and are worthy of even some shred of respect.

You are correct there Nanoose. The unfortunate thing is that this little clique down here in the bilge need to resort to personal attacks to defend their position when they feel threatened. They are like little nazis marching in lockstep and woe unto those whom do not hold their views. My opinion of ANS is just that- MINE- and I have every right to post it in response to the intial posting, which was simply another example of how our society has succumbed to media hype and overall lack of values. The fact that this "news" was posted on this forum within a few minutes after being made public is a sad commentary on what we hold to be important these days. You will notice, however, that I did not step in calling the poster an A$$hole nor did I cast aspersions on his wife as some did to me and mine. Why should my opinion of this person not be of equal import as the the high regard the poster must have felt for ANS ? What other reason would he have for bringing her up here? If it had been Charles Mansion instead of a beautiful blonde would we have the same response? Did you cry for Saddam Claudia? I doubt it- far easier to be mean to someone who does not hold to your high ethical standards- AS YOU SEE THEM! You people throw out your platitudes like preachers at a born again rally! I feel for ANS's dead son, I feel for her daughter too and truly believe that although the loss of a mother is a terrible thing- in this case an innocent child will be far better off. I will not call you an a$$hole for your beliefs, however.

Rick Starr
02-09-2007, 07:45 AM
Well there went 15 minutes I'll never have back again.

My conscience tells me to grieve rather for the cumulative time and good will that our community has lost in these 4 pages.

Today or tomorrow I'm going to take the skiff sailing, (85F, sunny clear, watertemp76F) and I'll spare a moment's thought for our community and the friends here, and for ANS, among many more immediate things.

Peace.

John Most
02-09-2007, 08:00 AM
This forum in one day can show the absolute best in the human condition and then in on swift second someone can come on and show the absolute lowest... shame michaelandgeorge and John Most... shame


Your full of it dingbat. Don't read into what I wrote something that isnt there. Your as bad as the rest of this forum with its mob mentality. Go back and read my posts. I have a different view, nothing more or less. Not a damn thing in the world makes one right or one wrong.

Milo Christensen
02-09-2007, 08:07 AM
...this little clique down here in the bilge...


...this forum with its mob mentality....

There are just some people who don't and can't fit into and will never be accepted by some communities. You can't continuously reject the community and then expect us to accept you and your rejectable thoughts.

Tar Devil
02-09-2007, 08:33 AM
Equating ANS with Saddam or Charles Manson is so absurd it warrants no comment.

Your comments about ANS, michigangeorge, are no different and no better than someone here calling you an a$$hole. There is a big difference between Claudia and you in that Claudia doesn't make disparaging remarks about someone she really doesn't know... especially in such a tragic situation.

And besides, someone calling you and a$$hole is just their opinion... and why shouldn't their opinion "be of equal import" as yours? (Your words, not mine).

geeman
02-09-2007, 08:56 AM
I wish I could have summed it up as well a Shane did.
As I said I didnt care for ANS.But she didnt KILL anyone or a large number of people.She made life choices I dont agree with.She has a little baby that will never know her mother,to me thats sad.No way around it.The fact that a young womans death could cause such a stir here ,so far both ways astounds me.
I read rants here that I couldnt believe I was reading, that someone could type such things, let alone actually believe it.It makes me wonder where we're going,And do I want to make the trip at all.

TomF
02-09-2007, 09:07 AM
I've given very, very little thought to ANS over the years.

I suspect that her life, and death, were very lonely, tawdry things. Focused on being the "sizzle," with I suspect a full awareness that she was not the "steak." Desperately depressing ... is it any wonder she's dead early in life? Or had obvious problems with drugs, alcohol, money, and self respect? It's what follows when one stops being a person, and instead becomes a commodity packaged for mass consumption.

I see little but pain here - and that pain will only be magnified for her little girl. That much of it she brought on herself doesn't make it the less painful ... or have any mitigating effect on what her daughter will experience.

Frankly, for her sake, I wish she'd not been born so beautiful. Re-read "Tess of the D'urbervilles" for a perspective on the downside of being beautiful, and the object of others' fantasizing.

geeman
02-09-2007, 09:32 AM
Very well said

Phillip Allen
02-09-2007, 09:33 AM
I'm afraid the child is going to be fought over because of her income...greed will rise to the surface and the child will be cheted out of the life she'll never have a chance at...heck I'd raise her if I could and keep the cash away till she finished school...but what do I know...I'm just a bleeding heart bricklayer

I hope there's someone who will raise her well but I won't be suprised if there's not

JimD
02-09-2007, 09:37 AM
...but what do I know...I'm just a bleeding heart bricklayer...

I'm afraid it's even worse than that, Phillip. According to michigangeorge you're actually a little nazi marching in lockstep :D

geeman
02-09-2007, 09:39 AM
I never was much for goosestepping,,,,,,,,,

Phillip Allen
02-09-2007, 09:46 AM
I'm afraid it's even worse than that, Phillip. According to michigangeorge you're actually a little nazi marching in lockstep :D


I have a small relative who paints herself into corners and never stops fighting...never corrects herself no matter how ludicrous her position...the fight is for its own sake...but then she's only 7 years old.

JimD
02-09-2007, 09:47 AM
I never was much for goosestepping,,,,,,,,,

Well if you're going to have an ounce of sympathy for ANS perhaps you should learn to!!!

Tristan
02-09-2007, 09:47 AM
1. A sad, tangled mess. 2. Sad that young women can become so depersonalized as to be no more than sex objects. Sad that our society places so much importance on a woman's appearance, so little on who she might be. Sure, she used her looks and was exploited by others, she was worth millions, but sad she seems not to have been valued for more than her looks. Good post Shane. Guess I'm getting old, thinking too much.

John Most
02-09-2007, 09:51 AM
ANS dieing of an overdose is a tragedy? Someone who squandered her god given looks, fame and fortune on all things material?

Hardly.

Look at what this country of ours has done to Iraq- their dead and ours.

Or Mother Teresa's passing.

Or even gasp (*cant believe Im saying it) Princess Di- at least she made some attempt to do some good in this world.

But ANS no. That does not equate to a "tragedy" in my world.

Phillip Allen
02-09-2007, 09:51 AM
1. A sad, tangled mess. 2. Sad that young women can become so depersonalized as to be no more than sex objects. Sad that our society places so much importance on a woman's appearance, so little on who she might be. Sure, she used her looks and was exploited by others, she was worth millions, but sad she seems not to have been valued for more than her looks. Good post Shane. Guess I'm getting old, thinking too much.

STOP THAT! Now go and eat your oatmeal and ...good morning Tristan :)

geeman
02-09-2007, 09:52 AM
I was just as sad when Marilyn Monroe died.She too was revered for her looks,made a business in and of herself.Her looks were her stock in trade.Few thought of her as a person, until she was dead.Not to mention how she died or who if anyone killed her,,,,,

geeman
02-09-2007, 09:54 AM
BTW, I'm not so much sad for ANS as I am her family,tragedy is tragedy, someones worth to the world doesnt make it any less so to their family.

Tristan
02-09-2007, 09:55 AM
STOP THAT! Now go and eat your oatmeal and ...good morning Tristan :)

:D Actually had a big bowl of McCann's Irish oatmeal this morning, mighty good on a cool morning. Guess I'll go out and wrestle an alligator now, if I can find one big enough to be a challenge.

PatCox
02-09-2007, 10:04 AM
When asked why Princess Di chose leprosy as one of her charities, she answered "for the beaches." Leprosy is found primarily in tropical countries.

Tristan
02-09-2007, 10:10 AM
The whole thing, right down to the discussion here, strikes me as more sad than anything else.

Sad kind of covers it I guess. Many of us with kids, grown up or not (and I have both categories) have had worrysome times with our kids and their sometimes really stupid behaviors. I suppose I can look at ANS and think how lucky I (and they) am that, so far, are all alive and healthy in spite of their own sometimes stupid behaviors, and how sad it would be if it were otherwise.

ishmael
02-09-2007, 10:10 AM
Leave her be. She's recently dead, fer Christ's sake. Have some basic respect.

Was she something odd? I don't know, as I said she wasn't on my radar. iId heard about her very peripherally. But she just died. I do know what that means. It ought to mean some silence for the dead.

In eastern books for the dead, Egyptian and Tibetan, and Jewish, the dead are honored for a day or two--in Jewish tradition for a year. It's considered important, a way to help the spirit of the dead transition into the next realm.

Unless you want Anna to come back and haunt you, show some respect.

Nanoose
02-09-2007, 10:45 AM
Sad that young women can become so depersonalized as to be no more than sex objects. Sad that our society places so much importance on a woman's appearance, so little on who she might be.

And we see that even here, Tristan, with the frequent postings of basically nude women by a few of our number. Wouldn't it be nice if they would stop and think about this whole scenario before they do that? It would be nice for me, but I don't hold out a lot of hope of seeing it change. Sad.

Don Olney
02-09-2007, 10:55 AM
De mortuis nil nisi bonum.

brockway
02-09-2007, 11:14 AM
Like her or not, She will live in Infamy. Ultimately Her new born kid will be the next victim of our cruel society. Why do we feel we need a kick dog? Do we hate ourselves that much, That we have to beat a death dog to death?

I agree will Bob Grant of Former WOR Radio Fame "The world is sick, and getting sicker!"

I'll say a prayer for her and everyone here. Amen.

Sea Frog
02-09-2007, 11:35 AM
Unless you want Anna to come back and haunt you, show some respect.

That might just be the sycophants' secret hope...

Leon m
02-09-2007, 11:36 AM
Knockabout wins the point for posting the first truly funny ANS joke!

Lighten up you guys. Ten years from now nobody's going to remember where they were when ANS died...

I'll always remember the day that Anna Nicole Smith died, because its the day I learned how insensative and disrespectfull our society has really become.

Paul Girouard
02-09-2007, 11:40 AM
I'll always remember the day that Anna Nicole Smith died, because its the day I learned how insensative and disrespectfull our society has really become.

Your just learning that? Or was it more of a reinforcement of past lesson's.:(

Leon m
02-09-2007, 11:41 AM
I always new it was present ...Just not so rampant.

Tristan
02-09-2007, 11:55 AM
I'll always remember the day that Anna Nicole Smith died, because its the day I learned how insensative and disrespectfull our society has really become.

When I was 11 or 12 my friends and I thought it was cool to be insensitive.

Leon m
02-09-2007, 12:02 PM
When I was 11 or 12 my friends and I thought it was cool to be insensitive.

That brings up an interesting point...I've been trying to come up with a reason why society is going to crap ......oohhh this deserves it's own thread.

huisjen
02-09-2007, 12:04 PM
Compassion is not always about wishing someone a long life, especially when their track record in life was so full of pain. This world is full of people, perhaps too many people. Can I say that I regret her death less than I regret her life, and still say so with compassion to all? Rest in Peace, Lady. Your chances of peace have now been improved.

Dan


The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice.

Nanoose
02-09-2007, 12:06 PM
Dan - when quoting someone, it's good to credit the source.

huisjen
02-09-2007, 12:09 PM
His name was William Shakespeare.

Merchant of Venice, Act 4 Scene 1, said by Portia.

Dan

Nanoose
02-09-2007, 12:10 PM
Thanks!

mariner2k
02-09-2007, 06:12 PM
Fess up! Anyone out there the father? Top story today.

jack grebe
02-09-2007, 07:19 PM
Fess up! Anyone out there the father? Top story today.
wait let me check......nope, willy's still there.....can't be me:D