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pcford
02-03-2007, 02:05 AM
A shot in the dark here. I installed a new graphics card. It was very long and while installing it, I pulled out one of the ribbon cables to a hard drive. I plugged it back in but now my raid will not work. It's a raid O. The warning on boot-up says that the problem is in "Array 1." I can't find any sign of the raid or the hard drives. Device manager says raid controllers are working.

Unfortunately, my normal computer repair guy does not work on weekends. The raid is all my video stuff. It would be very bad if that was wiped out.

Any help or reassurance that my raid has not been wiped out would be appreciated.

I thought how hard could it be to put in a graphics card....

htom
02-03-2007, 03:13 AM
Look at the drive you unplugged and be sure that both ends of the cable are seated tightly (and correctly orientated.)

Oh! And that its power cable is plugged in.

Oyvind Snibsoer
02-03-2007, 08:32 AM
Are you SURE you only have RAID 0? If so, and the disk is toast, you may be out of luck. RAID 0 will only speed up read/write access by spreading the data over several disks, but will not provide ANY fault tolerance. Pray it's only the cable. You can read more about the different RAID configurations at http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00.html

For important data, you'd be much better served with just about any other configuration than RAID 0. RAID 1 and 5 are most common. If speed is a concern, you may want to consider RAID 0+1.

pcford
02-03-2007, 11:09 AM
Are you SURE you only have RAID 0? If so, and the disk is toast, you may be out of luck. RAID 0 will only speed up read/write access by spreading the data over several disks, but will not provide ANY fault tolerance. Pray it's only the cable. You can read more about the different RAID configurations at http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00.html

For important data, you'd be much better served with just about any other configuration than RAID 0. RAID 1 and 5 are most common. If speed is a concern, you may want to consider RAID 0+1.

Uh, yes, I quite understand that. That is the reason I am freaked. On this machine the available hard drives were both IDE and to set up anything but RAID 0, you need SATA drives.

The cable seem to be in place. I wonder if one might have to go into set up to fix this.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
02-03-2007, 01:18 PM
To "get someones back up" has two very different meanings..

Which one applies here?

pcford
02-03-2007, 04:52 PM
The computer is with a tech. He said there is a possibility that the data may be retrievable.

I don't know how important this stuff is....I have not put much of my current project into my computer. Certainly would not have chosen to lose this stuff. I do have some notes regarding the currect project on the missing hard drive.

When we built the computer, I was going to set up a RAID 0+1 but that required SATA drives and I had IDE. So I went with 0. Bad mistake. I would have half if I had not.

Assuming the drive motor is toast but the disc itself has not been ruined, does anyone have experience with the process of taking the disc out and doing data recovery on it?

High C
02-03-2007, 05:02 PM
...Assuming the drive motor is toast but the disc itself has not been ruined, does anyone have experience with the process of taking the disc out and doing data recovery on it?

I do. I helped a number of folks recover data after hurricane Katrina. A surprising number of flooded drives were readable when removed from the 'puter and hooked up in an external USB case. Others had to go to VERY expensive labs. They charge plenty, depending on the severity of the problem and the specific drive, it ran from about a grand to as much as five. :eek:

I dealt with two different labs, one was certainly better than the other. If you like, I'll dig the name out of my records.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
02-03-2007, 05:03 PM
Read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JBOD#RAID_0

You cannot get the data for a "Raid 0" set from the single drive, they are a pair and would need to be considered together.

If you have no back-up, and either drive is toast - then the data has GONE.

Taking the pair of drives to a data recovery company - is uncertain of success and likely to be spendy - talk to them first.

pcford
02-03-2007, 05:11 PM
Read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JBOD#RAID_0

You cannot get the data for a "Raid 0" set from the single drive, they are a pair and would need to be considered together.

If you have no back-up, and either drive is toast - then the data has GONE.



Yes, as I said above, I am quite aware of that. Was not my question.

George Roberts
02-03-2007, 08:08 PM
In a RAID 0 if one drive is not present then nothing will happen. No one will write to the disk. So the disk is still in perfect condition.

It should be an easy fix.

---

No individual should use a RAID for any purpose. Certainly the on board RAID should not be used.

pcford
02-03-2007, 08:42 PM
In a RAID 0 if one drive is not present then nothing will happen. No one will write to the disk. So the disk is still in perfect condition.

It should be an easy fix.

---

No individual should use a RAID for any purpose. Certainly the on board RAID should not be used.

I am praying that it is an easy fix. So far no word from the tech. Why do you say RAID should not be used? I am planning to put a 0 + 1 on.

George Roberts
02-04-2007, 01:28 AM
1) RAID 0 will not give a noticable speed improvement for most users and it puts all the data at risk.

2) RAID 1 does not protect against software/user errors. It only protects against hardware failure. It generates twice as much heat (from the hard drives).

It is much easier to set up 2 disks and mirror the data on one to the other once a day with XCOPY.

John Bell
02-04-2007, 01:48 AM
1) RAID 0 will not give a noticable speed improvement for most users and it puts all the data at risk.

2) RAID 1 does not protect against software/user errors. It only protects against hardware failure. It generates twice as much heat (from the hard drives).

It is much easier to set up 2 disks and mirror the data on one to the other once a day with XCOPY.

I've been using a little utility on my home network called Syncback that I've configured to automatically keep extra copies of every person's user folders on two separate hard drives besides the main one they use. And to back that up, all of them are backed up once a month on an external USB HDD that was purchased for just that purpose. I figure having the important data mirrored across multiple hard drives on separate computers is reasonably safe as long as my house doesn't burn down. I'll have to remember to grab the USB drive when we run for safety.

While my system works, I've been thinking about setting up a RAID NAS (network attached storage).

Joe (SoCal)
02-04-2007, 01:54 AM
zzzzzzz huh what ??
oh nevermind ;)

John Bell
02-04-2007, 01:57 AM
Hard drives fail, Joe. Even on Macs. What, you don't back up your data? I thought with all the Important Work(tm) you do on your 'puters that you would have some piece of data worth protecting. I guess not.

I'm breathlessly awaiting your next cut-n-paste Apple press release touting how mac hard drives never fail.

Joe (SoCal)
02-04-2007, 02:06 AM
Hard drives fail, Joe. Even on Macs. What, you don't back up your data? I thought with all the Important Work(tm) you do on your 'puters that you would have some piece of data worth protecting. I guess not.

First of all I don't fiddle with things like the inside of my computer, no need to it works, it's an apliance.

As for backing up occasionally I back crap up on my iPod (its a external HD) or burn a CD but 90% of my work is email and web based so its all stored on online servers. I even store all my photos on photo servers. If my laptop crapped the bed tomorrow< I would go out and buy another mac and be up and running in a few second. So yea I guess not.

Edited to add since you asked :D I also have iDisk wich allows you to access your files from everywhere and share documents securely. With iDisk, you get drag-and-drop, password-protected storage on Apple servers, so you can access whatever you need, wherever you are. You can also use iDisk to share files with friends, family, and colleagues, making it easy to communicate and collaborate around the globe.

http://www.apple.com/dotmac/idisk.html

:D

John Bell
02-04-2007, 02:21 AM
Yeah, my ISP has a similar service and I occasionally use it. But it's impractical with an ADSL connection that only gives you 128 Kbps upload speed. Uploading a gig of stuff would take hours.

Joe (SoCal)
02-04-2007, 02:27 AM
Yeah, my ISP has a similar service and I occasionally use it. But it's impractical with an ADSL connection that only gives you 128 Kbps upload speed. Uploading a gig of stuff would take hours.

Cable modem is pretty fast. To be honest I think there is some compression thing iDisk does cause it seems I can move huge movie files fast. Check out the quicktime movie http://www.apple.com/dotmac/idisk.html It seems to me to be as fast as an external HD its very cool and I still dont use it enough.

ingo
02-04-2007, 04:13 AM
pcford, do you have an extra raid-controller or are the harddisks connected to the motherboard? If you have an extra controller you can hit a special key at booting time to enter the setup.
I thisnk it's just a problem with the setup/bios. All board i know that are able to do a raid 0 are able to do a raid 1, too (which is much more simple). Even with IDE drives. What is the name of controller/board?

pcford
02-04-2007, 04:19 AM
Cable modem is pretty fast. To be honest I think there is some compression thing iDisk does cause it seems I can move huge movie files fast. Check out the quicktime movie http://www.apple.com/dotmac/idisk.html It seems to me to be as fast as an external HD its very cool and I still dont use it enough.

Think about moving 300 gig, Joe. That is what is at risk for me. And will that fit on your Ipod? Didn't think so. Enter the real world Joe. Hard drives fail. I screwed up. It's my fault, ultimately. To say that it is the fault of the operating system is risible.Toss out the Jobs black turtleneck.

I sat beside a guy editing video on a Mac in top post house here in Seattle for weeks. One of the two or three Macs in the establishment out of about a 100 computers, by the way. Lockups and crashes were common. Not every day but certainly once or twice a week. Macs are good...Macs are great. But they are not perfect. Try believing in Allah, Geebus or somebody or something else besides Steve Jobs. It's just boring.

As Deiter said, "Your story has become tiresome now."

pcford
02-04-2007, 04:25 AM
pcford, do you have an extra raid-controller or are the harddisks connected to the motherboard? If you have an extra controller you can hit a special key at booting time to enter the setup.
I thisnk it's just a problem with the setup/bios. All board i know that are able to do a raid 0 are able to do a raid 1, too (which is much more simple). Even with IDE drives. What is the name of controller/board?

It's an Asus PC4-800 Deluxe. On board RAID controller. The reason I went with RAID 0 is my controller required SATA. Wanted to do 0+1.

No word from tech yet. I have adjusted to the possibility of losing the stuff. It's mostly old projects. These are available on tape or DVD. Just starting a new project.

pcford
02-04-2007, 04:27 AM
1) RAID 0 will not give a noticable speed improvement for most users and it puts all the data at risk.

2) RAID 1 does not protect against software/user errors. It only protects against hardware failure. It generates twice as much heat (from the hard drives).

It is much easier to set up 2 disks and mirror the data on one to the other once a day with XCOPY.

Interesting. Thanks. I will check that out when I pull out of this mess.

Thanks folks.

High C
02-04-2007, 09:29 AM
Yeah, my ISP has a similar service and I occasionally use it. But it's impractical with an ADSL connection that only gives you 128 Kbps upload speed. Uploading a gig of stuff would take hours.

That's adequate if your important work product is minimal. ;)

Joe (SoCal)
02-04-2007, 09:41 AM
Your WINDOZ screw ups are becoming tiresome

All your base is belong to us :D

Foster out ;)

pcford
02-04-2007, 11:48 AM
Your WINDOZ screw ups are becoming tiresome

All your base is belong to us :D

Foster out ;)

(yawn)
It's not a "windoz" operating system screw up, dipstick. Hard drives fail. I screwed up by not choosing the appropriate system. This allowed a catastrophic failure. It could happen on a windows, mac or unix machine.

As Gloria Gaynor said, "I will survive."

S/V Laura Ellen
02-04-2007, 11:51 AM
(yawn)
It's not a "windoz" operating system screw up, dipstick.

He may be a dipstick (in you opinion) but he is a cool Apple Mac user dipstick. Much better than your run of the mill nerdy Windows user dipstick (in Joe's opinion).

ingo
02-04-2007, 11:53 AM
It's an Asus PC4-800 Deluxe. On board RAID controller. The reason I went with RAID 0 is my controller required SATA. Wanted to do 0+1.

No word from tech yet. I have adjusted to the possibility of losing the stuff. It's mostly old projects. These are available on tape or DVD. Just starting a new project.

Do you have a P4C800 Deluxe? I have troubles to download the documentation (http://dlsvr03.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/sock478/P4C800/e1286_p4c800.pdf)
but indeed it seems that it can handle Raid 0, Raid 1 and Raid 0+1 with both IDE and SATA disks. Perhaps the Bios is just misconfigured. Did you try to fix it? Are there any repair tools on the driver CD? At the ASUS page is a "array management tool", perhaps it can help.
And of course - do not change a single byte on both disks if you will ever have a chance to repair the data! Maybe it is good to take a third harddisk to install an OS with which you can start you repair programs.

pcford
02-04-2007, 11:56 AM
He may be a dipstick (in you opinion) but he is a cool Apple Mac user dipstick. Much better than your run of the mill nerdy Windows user dipstick (in Joe's opinion).

Right, in Joe's opinion.

pcford
02-04-2007, 12:02 PM
Do you have a P4C800 Deluxe? I have troubles to download the documentation (http://dlsvr03.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/sock478/P4C800/e1286_p4c800.pdf)
but indeed it seems that it can handle Raid 0, Raid 1 and Raid 0+1 with both IDE and SATA disks. Perhaps the Bios is just misconfigured. Did you try to fix it? Are there any repair tools on the driver CD? At the ASUS page is a "array management tool", perhaps it can help.
And of course - do not change a single byte on both disks if you will ever have a chance to repair the data! Maybe it is good to take a third harddisk to install an OS with which you can start you repair programs.

Thanks, Ingo. It's out of my hands now. I don't want to screw things up any more. And like I said, whatever happens, I am resigned to it. Just wish the tech would call.

The problem started when I installed a new graphics card...to save an hour of my tech's time. How hard could that be right? The card, a BFG GeForce 7800 is very long. On installation, I dislodged one of the ribbon cables to one of the hard drives to the RAID...it may have sent power to a place it was not welcome.