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View Full Version : Progression and Regression Jay's H28



Jay Greer
02-01-2007, 09:22 PM
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid223/pc1d96046f93178eacc1b37160ca00480/ead5df6d.jpg
Well, here is some good news and bad news on the H28 retoration project. Pictured above are two Herreshoff flagstaffs with lignum vitae caps that I just finished making. They are intended to fit on the new bronze masthead caps I have also just finished making along with new running back stay tangs and bronze other bronze hardware, I invested over 200 hrs of time making the parts for the newly spliced main mast and re-finished mizzen. I had ordered M20 soft phosphor for the project and waited quite a while for delivery. 200 freaking hours of pattern making, sawing, filing, drilling and countersinking went into those parts! Today I went up to my friends sheet metal shop to use his bending presses and disaster struck! All parts that normaly would be no problem to bend were a problem. The supplier sent me the wrong alloy! The plate can't be cold bent! It breaks! This is not normal! This is a disaster. Of course they are replacing the bad batch of metal they sent. But Gawd the labor involved!!!
Bronze plate is now being made in India and the alloys appear to no longer be always as they should be. Had I checked the bendability on the stock, when it arrived, I would have known it was the wrong stuff. My fault for not checking! Just wanted to warn anyone planning to use bronze plate to check to make sure that you are indeed getting what you are paying for!
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid223/p39ebdfd89f078b00d24e59723ec4bb63/ead5de28.jpghttp://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid223/p39ebdfd89f078b00d24e59723ec4bb63/ead5de28.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid223/p02c87fc789d030e8520ae320168121c9/ead5dd14.jpg

Bob Smalser
02-01-2007, 10:12 PM
Lovely work...and ouch.

The plate from Alaska Copper in Seattle?

JimConlin
02-01-2007, 10:36 PM
Even if a sample bends as expected, is there confidence that it has the material's other mechanical properties are as advertised? Would tensile testing a sample be a good idea? What might that cost?

Jay Greer
02-02-2007, 01:24 AM
Even if a sample bends as expected, is there confidence that it has the material's other mechanical properties are as advertised? Would tensile testing a sample be a good idea? What might that cost?
The supplier will make good on the material. Aparantly there was a mistake in sorting at the mill. I got a bum piece of stock. I could have the material analized for more than I paid for it and then push the issue and go to court but all I want to do is get the job done and go back to Port Townsend. A lot of labor down the tubes! My son wants to go sailing. So I will do the job again!
Jay

Ken Hutchins
02-02-2007, 09:15 AM
What a disaster.
When ordering metals, specify that the material be supplied with certs of testing, the certificate of test must include heat number of the actual material supplied and the material should be marked with the heat number. Accept no generic certs, and if a supplier if not willing to supply material with certs find another supplier.

Jay Greer
02-02-2007, 10:59 AM
Ken
As old as I am, I still learn new tricks! Thanks, never had a problem like this in the past.
Jay

Andrew Craig-Bennett
02-02-2007, 12:22 PM
200 hours down the drain - awful.

I have heard other stories of problems with bronzes of Indian origin.

bott
02-02-2007, 12:53 PM
Well... on a positive note:

Those flag staffs look amazing.

Is you H28 in PT being restored? or do I seem to remember it being worked on in cali?

Jay Greer
02-02-2007, 05:37 PM
Well... on a positive note:

Those flag staffs look amazing

Is you H28 in PT being restored? or do I seem to remember it being worked on in cali?

This boat, the H28 "Bright Star" is located in California. My son is the primary user of the boat. My digs and full boat building shop are located in Port Townsend, where I wish I was rather than being buried in this current restoration project.
Jay

Jay Greer
02-02-2007, 08:34 PM
a thought jay (you've probably already thought this through).

the material wont cold bend- is the material strong enough? will it have a reasonable fatigue life?
would it be time effective to hot bend your already cut and drilled items rather than start again? or have they all already been broken?

good luck.
Due to the possibility of fracture under shock loading and the fact that most of the components require bending there is no justification to continue using the stock. It might be heat treated but 90% is already useless. Shipped with a spec sheet, the next metal will be
1/4 hard phosphor bronze. I will also resort to CNC Water jet cutting rather than going back to the bandsaw. I am out of time!
Jay

few3
02-02-2007, 09:11 PM
Look on the bright side........ it happened in the shop

Beautiful work.

Jay Greer
02-03-2007, 02:42 PM
Look on the bright side........ it happened in the shop

Exactly what my son Jaime and I said when the parts broke!
Jay

Jay Greer
02-03-2007, 02:45 PM
About the flag staffs. If you have any old gold left from a bad tooth crown, you can use it for gold plating. The plating job on the trucks ran only ten bucks! I supplied the gold from a broken crown.
Jay

rbgarr
04-13-2007, 11:57 AM
Jay,

Where (and if) on an H-28 are these shackles used? Just curious....
http://tinyurl.com/2lov8u

Jay Greer
04-13-2007, 07:52 PM
Jay,

Where (and if) on an H-28 are these shackles used? Just curious....
http://tinyurl.com/2lov8u

Actually, the shackles pictured are not called for on any of the origional H28 design sheets. In fact, I have never seen a shackle of that shape, until now.
Jay

rbgarr
04-13-2007, 09:13 PM
Me neither. And I thought you knew everything! ;)

Jay Greer
04-14-2007, 12:20 PM
I know a little about a lot of things. But, I don't know a lot about anything; especially wooden boats.
Jay

Tom Robb
04-14-2007, 01:27 PM
That sucks. What a waste.
Bronze from India... is anything still made here?

Bill R
04-14-2007, 06:12 PM
Thanks for the warning Jay. I am about to order the bronze for the neverending skiff project and some parts for the f****glass boat.