New Strips for Small boat Contstruction

[Stephen Hutchins]

Since I'm apparently not allowed to make money any more, I'm gonna share this idea with you. I just drew up a 12' strip dingy for play with Paul Gartside's "Riff" www.gartsideboats.com (http://www.gartsideboats.com) Mine, (I'm gonna call her Lucy)is a 12 station boat stripped and glassed with a sprit sail and small jib totaling 73 square feet. I'm thinking I can use 2x6 spruce (or cedar if you got the money) and rip it into 1/4" strips giving me a 1-1/2x 1/4 strip. Then change the blade on the table saw to 1/8" and cut a 1/8 by 1/2 rabbet on either side of the strip. This would allow me cheap quick milling and I could fasten along the waterlines to the molds with a stapler.

[ 07-14-2005, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Stephen Hutchins ]

[Garrett Lowell]

I'm not sure that would save you any time or money. I seriously doubt you could get decent glue joints.

[Stephen Hutchins]

It would save a great deal of money over buying pre fabricated strips, and as far as good glue joints go, the only way to find out is to try it. I can't afford to so maybee someone else will.

[Stephen Hutchins]

Originally posted by Stephen Hutchins:
Since I'm apparently not allowed to make money any more, I'm gonna share this idea with you. I just drew up a 12' strip dingy for play with Paul Gartside's "Riff" www.gartsideboats.com (http://www.gartsideboats.com) Mine, (I'm gonna call her Lucy)is a 12 station boat stripped and glassed with a sprit sail and small jib totaling 73 square feet. I'm thinking I can use 2x6 spruce (or cedar if you got the money) and rip it into 1/4" strips giving me a 1-1/2x 1/4 strip. Then change the blade on the table saw to 1/8" and cut a 1/8 by 1/2 rabbet on either side of the strip. This would allow me cheap quick milling and I could fasten along the waterlines to the molds with a stapler.

[Bob Cleek]

That boat would be much less expensive and much easier to build lapstrake planked. It would also be worth much, much more when complete. The plan you propose (not that I'd recommend it) would be much less expensive if you used rough sawn wood and milled it yourself. Finished 2x6 is an unnecessary expense because you are turning most of it into sawdust!

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Stephen Hutchins:
... and rip it into 1/4" strips giving me a 1-1/2x 1/4 strip.
From the Gartside catalog:
12 Ft Sailing Dinghy "Riff", Design #136

Construction: Strip planked, glassed inside and out.

A very simple small daysailer perfect for kids or adults. Generous beam and built-in buoyancy tanks fore and aft make this an ideal boat for learning to sail. Construction is 9/16in. western red cedar strip planking with a layer of 6oz/sq yd glass cloth and epoxy inside and out. A straightforward building method and well detailed plans make this one well suited to the beginning boat builder.

Hmmmmmmm......

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Stephen Hutchins]

What are you sayin, Venchka? smile.gif

[kc8pql]

He's saying you're 5/16 thin on your strip thickness.

[Gary E]

Assuming your gona slather glop all over it and then paint it. If what you want is 1/4 x 1 1/2 strips, whatz wrong with starting with a sheet of 1/4 plywood? a lot less sawing and material waste

[Stephen Hutchins]

I think I can go thinner because I drew in 8 foot watertight bench seats/stringers and above, I drew in an oak rubrail to stiffen the sheerline. edited to add: I forgot to mention I ended up drawing in a partial 6mm deck with coaming. I didn't originally intend that, but alot of my small boat designs end up with a partial deck. It just seems a sensible way to stiffen the craft. I wish could post a pic. Maybee someday....

[ 07-14-2005, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Stephen Hutchins ]

[almeyer]

Construction is 9/16in. western red cedar strip planking with a layer of 6oz/sq yd glass cloth and epoxy inside and out. Surely that 9/16" has to be a typo?

Al

[Garrett Lowell]

Stephen, with a minimal expenditure on 2 router bits, you can manufacture your own strips with beads and coves, which will give you a much better chance at a good glue joint. This takes into account, of course, that you have a router and a router table or a router table adapter for your table saw.

[Stephen Hutchins]

Garrett,
I don't have a router. That's basically how the idea was born.
Almeyer,
I don't think 9/16" is a typo. It could be reasonable for a boat with minimal interior structure.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Old Bingey:
I'll second that Dave Carnell post. That blade will rip canoe strips so accurately that they don't need thickness planing... with a fenced skillsaw yet.

Another oddity is that small diameter blades on a tablesaw run with less wobble than the proper sized blade. Try a skillsaw blade on a ten inch table saw some time.

For ripping a lot of long little sticks, a skillsaw with a little wood fence will run rings around a tablesaw for both speed and accuracy, though. Even a big deal tablesaw like a Unisaw with a power feed and all kinds of infeed and outfeed tables and two people can't touch one person with a cheap skillsaw and a good blade and three sawhorses.
Originally posted by Old Bingey:
I don't know what it is with that particular blade. It is sort of like magic. I have not tried any of the bigger Matsu****a blades because the little 7 1/4" one does everything I need to do so well. I mostly only rip with a circular saw and, combination or not, that thing will outrip anything I ever saw. I use a bandsaw for big stuff. The best bandsaw blade I have ever found is the "Woodslicer" from Highland Hardware. It is very thin kerf, too. The bandsaw blade, however, is sort of pricey but the little skilsaw blade is only $26 ppd.

I am fixing to cast off the chains of the internet and hide out for a while. Good luck to you all with all your projects.RIPPING STRIPS W/CIRC. SAW (http://www.home.earthlink.net/~durgerian/id5.html)

What would be wrong with 3/4"x1/2" (or 9/16") strips ripped from 1x stock in the manner "Old Bingey" shared with us? Eh? 1-1/2" strips seem kinda wide at the turn of the bilge to me. Hey, I've never done it. Maybe it's ok.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Garrett Lowell]

Stephen, why not just bevel the strips by hand? I spent alot of time beading/coving my strips, and I don't think I would go through that again. If I ever build in this manner again (and that's a big IF) I will hand bevel the strips.

[Stephen Hutchins]

Venchka, thanks for that Old Bingy link. Exellent idea! Garrett, Yes 1 1/2" strips are wide but I'm thinking of using hot water on the outside of the difficult strips so they will cup. I wanted a smooth interior so it will be easy to make watertight compartments. In fact, I'm thinking of using 6mm BS1088 for the lofting board so I can cut interior parts directly from the board. I did think alot of beveling each strip, if anything for the fun of it, but there are alot of strips and I want to try something new. If anybody does decide to try these stips, (on a small, easy hull shape) please let me know how it works out.

[htom]

My guess is that the 9/16 strips are square in section, turned so that they are installed with vertical grain. He's making a wooden hull protected with fiberglass; you're making a fiberglass hull cored with wood.

[ssor]

Originally posted by htom:
He's making a wooden hull protected with fiberglass; you're making a fiberglass hull cored with wood.At what point do we cross the line from wood protected with fiberglass/resin to fiberglass/resin cored with wood?

[Nomad17]

Strippers... Here is the link for the WCHA "Wooden Canoe Heritage Assoc." which has a topic just for "Strippers"...
http://forums.wcha.org/
For canoes, the strips are 7/8" wide so that when the bead and cove are together, 3/4" is exposed. The thickness is 1/4" and the bead and cove design gives you considerable strength due to the interlocking of the stirps. The canoe is then covered with 6 oz. fiberglass both inside and out so that when finished, if you look at a cross section of the hull, you have an I beam effect with the fiberglass and the wood is just a filler. A very significant improvement over bevelling or butting edges... smile.gif

[Stephen Hutchins]

Originally posted by htom:
He's making a wooden hull protected with fiberglass; you're making a fiberglass hull cored with wood.

At what point do we cross the line from wood protected with fiberglass/resin to fiberglass/resin cored with wood?

Good question. I don't think a clear line has been made for that. In my opionion, anytime you lay glass first, before the core material, it is a glass boat cored with wood. If the core is built first, (and it is of wood) I'd be more likely to call a wood or strip built boat reinforced with glass.

[Todd Bradshaw]

"At what point do we cross the line from wood protected with fiberglass/resin to fiberglass/resin cored with wood?"

When the vast, vast majority of the hulls structural strength is those two glass skins. The core can be balsa or foam and the boat will be nearly as strong. That being said, if this boat is built with 1/4" strips the bottom is going to bounce and distort like a mother - until it breaks, which isn't going to take long. It will split on the inside first and fore-and aft, most likely following a grain line on a strip until it runs out and then following a strip-to-strip joint until it finds another weak grain line to follow. The only way to prevent this and generate the hull stiffness that a decent sailboat needs with 1/4" strips is going to be to really load on the fiberglass on both sides (like at least 25-30 ounces worth, inside and out), just as if you were making any other cored fiberglass boat.

If you would rather use one or two more modest layers of glass, the core thickness is going to need to be increased and standard 6 oz. canoe-weight cloth is hardly heavy-duty and could certainly be increased if you want more strength. The 9/16" thick strips specified in the plan are not a typo.

For example, I used 5/16" thick strips on the bottom part of this 22' canoe, two layers of 10 oz. cloth, inside and out and added half a dozen small half-ribs across the inside bottom for stiffeners. It does the job, but is hardly overkill and I wouldn't want it any lighter down there - and this boat only has a 40" waterline beam.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid177/p6de510523bc84d806582440499f2419c/f34239a8.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid177/p5833bdfa4e0579bdab80853090cc4a98/f3423768.jpg

This one had 3/8" strips on the bottom, two layers of 7.5 oz. cloth, inside and out, a wide strip of ash down the middle and three small oak shoe-keel/runners on the outside bottom. It had a waterline beam of about four feet.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid28/pe4cb7cbb9eee924b7ff9f4d9005fbded/fd680369.jpg

It's certainly possible to strip the dinghy, but as you get farther and farther away from building simple, narrow canoes and kayaks, you end up having to jump through a lot of hoops trying to maintain adequate strength and stiffness. If you're trying to maintain a bright finish, it gets even more complex. At a certain point, the drawbacks of the method quickly start to outshine the benefits and construction methods like glued lap plywood start looking much more attractive and practical.

[Stephen Hutchins]

I don't know Todd. The greatest distance between any two longitudinals on this boat is about 10 inches. Do you still think it will buckle?

[Todd Bradshaw]

Yep.

[Todd Bradshaw]

I truly believe that one of the best things that ever happened to my boatbuilding hobby was that I got very bored with stripper construction and quite literally tired of even the look of them. As a result, I started getting far more interested in studying more traditional (and in many cases more sound) methods of building wooden boats. You can push the envelope somewhat, applying the basic stripper method to build bigger and different hull shapes and I think for many people it's a logical progression to ask yourself "What else can I build using this cool technique?", but at some point it gets both impractical and old. If you're a wooden boat freak, you even get to the point where you want to justify your facination with them by building an honest to goodness wooden boat. It gets really easy to wow the folks feeding the ducks at the launch ramp with fancy feature strips and shiny varnish, but at some point, you want to build a boat that even Cleek would approve of!

I still find stripper construction to be a very convenient and quick way to build certain boats and to prototype designs, though excessive fancywork doesn't do much for me any more (I don't really care whether my next canoe has the lyrics for "Yankee Doodle Dandy" inlayed on the bottom from little walnut chunks, surrounded by sweeping bubinga wood stripes and two-tone oak leaves) but the basic technique will build a very nice canoe or kayak that also looks good. On the other hand, my desire to push the limits and apply the method to other types of hulls dried up a long time ago. In most cases, other forms of boatbuilding seem to make a better, stronger hull and more sense.

[Stephen Hutchins]

I do know carvel planking. But I don't want any frames on the inside of this boat.What about 1/2" carvel planks with a 1/4" by 1/2" rabbet opposing sides and top and bottom of each plank, epoxy glued together?

[George Roberts]

Stephen Hutchins ---

Your profile says "boatbuilder/designer."

I have no complaints about your methods.

[Bob Cleek]

What Todd said should be carefully considered. He's been through the entire evolution. The boat in the picture appears to be lapstrake, probably glued and glassed. If you can follow instructions step-by-step, no more complex than building a strip planked boat would be, you can build a very durable, light, boat without a router. Heck, you can do it with hand tools alone, even. In a boat that is trailerable, heck, in any boat, the less she weighs, the easier she will be to launch and the better she will sail. Get a copy of Greg Roessel's small boat building book from WB. He covers all the alternatives well.

[Stephen Hutchins]

Thanks George, actually, I haven't built any boats in a year. I wrecked my back last summer and It's been hell ever since. I love traditional construction the most, but I'm not against pushing the envelope especially if the boat is intended to compete (play) with a similar design.