View Full Version : The evil anti-Waione thread

Tom Hunter
01-29-2007, 12:39 PM
Cold weather, rotten boat, ugly people:eek: :D

Ok maybe its' not evil, and I am certainly not anti Waione, but the conditions are pretty much the opposite of the recent thread on Waione's cruise.


This hole is where an icebox built without a top used to be. You guessed it, condensation rotted out the beams under the deck.

We plan to cut into the cabin corner to get all the rot out, here it is:


The cap is already off the plank that edges the cockpit, we have to replace the plank due to iron sickness in some of the bolts as well. There is also a hole in the coachroof where my elbo is.

Everything aft of the stove is coming out of here, most of it is already gone. We are moving the cabinets forward a few inches and installing a full size sink and a new icebox arriangement.


We are going to hit the Boston boat show in February to look for clever arriangements so that we don't end up with the huge amount of dead space that I am standing in, you can see some of my legs through the hole in the cabin side.

We have some other small jobs here and there as well.

The one other project we are thinking about is replacing the rudder. The boat steers like a battleship now, and this may give you a clue as to why:




These boats were designed before there were engines, and the drawings and pictures I have seen show a rudder like the one in the pictures, but without the great big hole in the middle for the prop. My suspicion is that they re-designed the rudder by cutting out an apeture and not thinking much about it.

The rudder is old and I plan to replace it either this year or next. Any thoughts on a better design?

Would I get better performance if I made it more of a foil? What about putting more surface area down low? The tiller is long, and it has a comb, so it will be easy enough to control even if the rudder has a little more force on the tiller due to being a bit longer aft.

If I could figure out how to put a drawing in here I would post a couple of ideas for disussion. Also I am told (by a prop place over in Salem) the prop should be 18" not the 16" there now. It's tempting to put on an 18" egg beater, might get 1/4 or 1/2 a knot more out of her that way.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
01-29-2007, 12:59 PM
Concur with your diagnosis on the steering problems being caused (along with heavy weather helm, I dare say...) by the propeller cutout being wholly in the rudder.

Drastic solution - twin folding props with hydraulic motors driven by a hydraulic pump in place of the gearbox - very much the flavour of the month with similar boats here in Britain.

John B
01-29-2007, 03:23 PM
( the antichrist here :D ) I don't envy you that sort of work Tom. One of my first jobs on my boat was a similar one. It was two deck beam ends rotted out and a section of deck above them gone soft. Then I noticed a patch on the hull ( inside) and read later in a 1917 yachting magazine how a steamer had hit her in the port quarter when she was at her mooring. So the obvious repairs had been done in 1917 but the beam ends and deck planking had been shocked by the impact, and then taken nearly 70 years to manifest as rot.:eek:

man you have some nice room in that boat.
( comes from mouth of family at point of implosion)

Jay Greer
01-29-2007, 03:41 PM
I advocate the use of an off set prop rather than using an apeture. An off set prop is always biting clean water. Where as a prop in an apeture is always, partialy blanked off by working in the flow shadow of the keel.
Granted, an off set prop takes some getting used to, when backing. But once the basics are understood the plus factors over come the minuses, especially when combined with a folding or feathering prop.

So far as more area down low on a rudder is concerned, aside from the potential of damage from grounding, there is some merit to this concept.
The 5.5meter sloop "Antiope" was put into the Stephen's towing tank in the late sixties and tested for various flow caracteristics. It was found that having the greatest area low on the rudder allowed it to bite into laminar flow and at 2.5deg of weather helm created a foil form that lifted the boat to weather. I have created this form on my own boat "Red Witch" and found it to be true.

Tom Hunter
01-29-2007, 03:45 PM

Here is a bit more of the cabin:

The door to the head is on the right, the cabinet under the sawzall and the sink are coming out, I will put in shots of the space sometime soon. I have a freind with an Advance 36, his wife came on board last Summer and the first thing out of her mouth was "wow, what a big bathroom!" thier boat is larger than this, but the head is very cramped by comparison.

What I really want is your boat under sail and mine at anchor:rolleyes:

Here is a picture of my favorite boat repair tool:


It also shows the comb, which is a great thing to have, I am suprised more boats don't.

This is actually a small project compared to the last 4 years. Stripping the deck and re-laying it, pulling a lot of rotten wood out of the cockpit and putting in a new through hull and 35 gallon holding tank were much worse. Oh and did I mention rewiring in the forepeak and lazarette? The oringinal wiring was done by sadistic dwarves that were fired from the first production of Willie Wonka and the chocolate factory for taking too much delight in abusing the bad children.

Andrew that is a great suggestion, but I suspect its outside the budget. Just out of curiousity how much does it cost to do that?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
01-30-2007, 05:27 AM
Tom - like John B, I have "fond" memories of that stage with Mirelle, too. And I very much concur with Jay Greer - offset prop is best, if you want to go sailing.

Here is the website of the British twin hydraulic driven offset folding prop "gurus". Note that they fit this equipment to every single hire motor cruiser on the Norfolk Broads - you could hardly think of a better testimonial to its robustness and "idiot proof" qualities!


I'm saving up to convert Mirelle, but it will be a year or two yet, as I'm exceptionally skint even by my standards at the moment.

01-30-2007, 06:41 PM
I see the millwauki super sawzall in the foreground. If you still have alot of demo to do , I'd suggest a porter cable sawzall, outperforms the millwauki by at least 2x.