A bad place?

[Larry P.]

What do you do when you're in a bad place and it gets harder to get up every morning?

[brad9798]

We've all been there ... done that.

The strong/resilient continue to put one foot in front of the other ... sometimes not even knowing why we do so.

[Katherine]

You get help. See your doctor to get evaluated for clinical depression.

[rufustr]

I have found that a small network of good friends is vital.
Talking openly to those friends helps.
Booking up plans for the near and distant future focuses the mind.
The little white control pill is essential.
See a doctor and follow advice.
If things are bad try to be with understanding people.

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Sometimes it's just a bad day.
A bad week.
Sometimes it's just life's events.
Sometimes it's the lack of sunshine.
With me it's a chemical imbalance in my massive brain. http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon10.gif


I hate to admit that "happy pills" really help.
I resisted for a long time but eventually things got bad enough that I was willing to try anything.
A trip to my family doctor was all I needed to do.
I feel much better now and wish the same for you Larry.
Hang in there and I assure you there really is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Peace----> Kevin in Ohio

[ishmael]

No need to sugarcoat it. Life really sucks sometimes, without a particular reason. I'm not a big fan of just pushing through it. Of course, there are things you need to take care of each day, and doing them often feels like sleepwalking. Gotta keep walking. But if this is not a part of larger depression, a time apart, a time to be quiet, a time to sleep and dream, may be the best prescription.

Americans aren't very good at depression. We always want to fix it and get busy again. That's a form of mental illness much worse than the occasional blues. In my mind it's damn abnormal to be perky and optimistic all the time. The mind, the spirit, needs time to refresh occasionally; the well to refill, and that takes stopping. If you aren't doing it well it will manifest as a depression.

It's hard to say from your description, and I don't want to dismiss more severe depression that might need some help, but go with it, ride it. Take some new tacks. Write down your dreams, write some poetry. Write down your bleakest thoughts, write it all down. Go inside. It's okay. You don't have to fix it.

Good luck, man. PM me if you want to talk.

Jack

[The Bigfella]

Life's got its ups and downs Larry. Why worry - worry won't solve anything? Focus on the ups. If you focus on the down's it will stop you getting to the ups. Don't want to sound over simplistic - but as a mate of mine used to say, life goes smoother when you get on with it. Just remember back to something that once seemed insurmountable, but is no longer a problem.

Jobs are easy. Careers - take a bit more thinking about, but its common to change them too. I'm considering a fourth. Partners - there's only two of you, so work on relationships rather than change them.

[Mrleft8]

I move.
Not kidding or being flippant.
Sometimes ya just gotta git and go.
Kinda sorta one of the reasons I'm here in Freezing Florida. I had to get out of New England, and the Caribbean wasn't clicking just then.

[Phil Heffernan]

I have found that a small network of good friends is vital.
Talking openly to those friends helps.
Booking up plans for the near and distant future focuses the mind.
The little white control pill is essential.
See a doctor and follow advice.
If things are bad try to be with understanding people.

We can help with all but the white pill...Come on up Larry P., and hang with Dr Joe & Dr Phil for a weekend..Change of scenery, the company of a few friends who know what yer goin' through, and will take ya for a walk in the woods...never known to fail!!

Maybe we'll even trailer the dory out on the River...Who knows what adventures a new day may bring!!!!!

PH

PS I got a guest room fer ya

[Larry P.]

Phil I might take you up on that very soon but Joe seems to be doing well and I'm not sure I a good person for him to be around right now.

[ishmael]

Native blues. We don't need no stinkin' pills.

Good luck, Larry.

[Phil Heffernan]

Phil I might take you up on that very soon but Joe seems to be doing well and I'm not sure I a good person for him to be around right now.

Oh yes you are...Joe can tell you how he got to be in such a good place right now

:D :D

What you need is a load of laughs, and a new attitude;) Longer days and more water time wouldn't hurt either, but you gotta wait til May for that:)

Don't worry..Be happy...Get yer sorry ass up to CSOH:D

Free advice, on the house...

PH

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

If anybody needs a pill, it's you Jack. http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon10.gif


Everyone acts like they're so tough they don't need "happy pills".
I did for a long time.
Guess what?
I was wrong.

I don't take them to get high.
I take them to be normal.
Well......as normal as I get anyway.

[ishmael]

Soma, Soma, Soma.

[coelacanth2]

It sounds as though you've been through a lot of hard times in the last year or so, and that much stress can eventually wear down the strongest folks (me? I'm usually too stupid to notice my problems-the bliss of ignroance). You are also reaching a part of your life where you realize it's about half over, and what have you done? Is this all there is? What mark have I made on this world?
Please be reassured that there many folks who care for you (many on this forum) and that you are a worthy person with a part in the greater Plan. You will get through this, and every day will be more precious for it. What has worked for me was to go back to something that I enjoyed, but hadn't made the time for. Any time I spend with my boy is worthwhile - he is 10 and things that are old to me are often new to him, and I realize my father probably felt the same.
Also, it is okay to love again, in your time. I cannot speak from experience here, only to report on what friends have gone through in their times of trouble. You will get through this.

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Have they ever figured out what exactly was in Soma?
marijuana?
Shrooms?
What?

[Phil Heffernan]

Bad stuff:(.
I'm not sure the experts on the WBF are qualified to pass judgement on medical treatments that seem to be effective....It's for each person to decide for themselves...No offense, Ish, but you are hardly qualified to cast dispersions on alternative therapy...

PH

[rufustr]

I pretended for a long time that I could cope.
And several times since have decided that I didn't need the pills.
Each crash has been worse than the previous one.
If you can get by without medication then that is great, but life is too short to waste time with the black dog.
The control pill is not the entire solution but part of a wider change of attitude and the way to look at life.

[ishmael]

Um, I didn't cast dispersions(sic) at anything. Soma is, among other things, a drug in Huxley's "Brave New World." It's a joyous opiate for the masses who've been subsumed by a weird mass ideation.

In Vedic literature it's difficult to pin it down, but it's mentioned a lot. A shamanic, a visionary substance.

I'm not a big fan of people tripping off to Prozac land. The drugs are way over prescribed. Some people genuinely need them, but the vast majority would be better served going into their suffering, not short circuiting it with drugs. I don't have the tatoo to qualify me to make prescription. Tatoos are overrated.

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

I'm no expert for sure.
Everyone needs to find their own way.
I had people who knew about it, tell me I needed medication.
I didn't listen to them and suffered for a long time needlessly.
Be smarter than me....... OK?

[Phil Heffernan]

Um, I didn't cast dispersions(sic) at anything. Soma is, among other things, a drug in Huxley's "Brave New World." It's a joyous opiate for the masses who've been subsumed by a weird mass ideation.

In Vedic literature it's difficult to pin it down, but it's mentioned a lot. A shamanic, a visionary substance.

I'm not a big fan of people tripping off to Prozac land. The drugs are way over prescribed. Some people genuinely need them, but the vast majority would be better served going into their suffering, not short circuiting it with drugs. I don't have the tatoo to qualify me to make prescription. Tatoos are overrated.

Whatever...not sure what this has to do with Larry's problem...

PH

[Memphis Mike]

Well Larry, I'll tell ya what cured me. It was Sue. After my divorce and at the time I finally got pissed at the ex, I decided I wasn't gonna let her get the best of me and I also decided I wasn't going to spend the rest of my life alone. I went out and met Sue. She took care of it. I've been pretty much happy ever since. Of course I've had my ups and downs just like everyone else but I'm much happier than I thought I ever would be. When number one left, I thought my life had ended.

Go get yourself another woman. After a year, it's time.

[ishmael]

Phil,

I can't say for sure, but what this has to do with Larry is he's recently divorced, is suffering that. He doesn't strike me as a candidate for anti-depressants, but I don't know. The automatic assumption that he needs to be happy, and if he isn't he needs drugs, is way off base. He has every right to be unhappy. If he weren't a bit unhappy I'd worry about it.

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

I think Larry needs what all recently divorced men need.
To get laid.....right?
Made my day a little brighter If I remember correctly.


(dang it, MM beat me to it...LOL)

[Memphis Mike]

The emotions associated with divorce come in three stages. First there's the guilt, the remorse and sadness. Then comes the anger and MUCH later the forgiveness.

I got angry and did something about it. God doesn't want you to live your life in misery, Larry. It's not all your fault. It takes two. Quit beatin yourself up and do something about it.

[pcford]

I'm not a big fan of people tripping off to Prozac land. The drugs are way over prescribed. Some people genuinely need them, but the vast majority would be better served going into their suffering, not short circuiting it with drugs.

Stupid. Do you understand how many people die from the effects of depression?

[Paul Fitzgerald]

In a perfect world there is reactive depression (the death of someone close, a significant loss like a divorce) and there is a chemical depression (everything is going well, but we are in a hole and can't climb out).
Chemical depression responds to medication, reactive depression doesn't.
In practice, we often have a mixed picture, a reactive depression on top of a chemical one we manage ourselves.
Some clues for a chemical depression are early morning wakening, appetite disturbances (too much or too little), OCD or anxiety states.
The only way to tell if the SSRI's are for us is to give them a trial, maybe two weeks. If we don't have a dramatic response, its probably not in our chemistry or we have something else.
If we want to try natural therapy, there is good evidence for the effectiveness of some forms of meditation and aerobic exercise. They are more effective in maintaining equilibrium after recovery from depression, and an episode can often be traced back to stopping a regular exercise pattern a few months before its onset. They dont help if we are in the hole.
The other thing that is useful is managing the rate of change. Regardless of the form of depression we have, change makes it worse and we have an intrinsic resistance to change. Its not a good idea to start a new relationship soon after a divorce. Clean out the garage and get things in some sort of shape.
The great thing about change is that it is treated by time. We slowly adapt to our new circumstances, but we can burn out if we try to push the rate.
Of course, this is just a general comment, you need to consult your doctor before you act on any advice etc. etc. etc.

[The Bigfella]

Of course, this is just a general comment


But its the pick of the 31 so far. Great comments Paul

[ishmael]

"Stupid. Do you understand how many people die from the effects of depression?"

I understand it very well, and I'm not stupid. As I said, they are over prescribed for minor or temporary depression, yet some people genuinely need them. I'm not against their proper use, but they aren't without risks, and they aren't a panacea. I am against handing them out like candy, which is what we've been doing.

Going through a rough patch because of divorce isn't reason to start messing with brain chemistry IMHO. Some upset and depression is normal and good in the circumstance. It's a time to turn inward and contemplate just what happened.

If there's a history of depression that's a different story. None of us can evaluate this over the web. I encourage Larry to find a good counselor. We like to think we're unique, but someone skilled at looking will know the basic framework and help by mirroring what he's going through. They'll also be able to evaluate the quality of his mood, and steer him toward a prescription if that's what he needs. Just having a neutral person to spill your guts to can be very therapeutic.

[Chris Coose]

"there is good evidence for the effectiveness of some forms of meditation and aerobic exercise."
No doubt. Clinical trials performed on Chris Coose by himself over the past 20 years find this method most effective.

Talk around to a couple of local friends. See if there is a decent counselor around. A few sessions with a skilled person will run you through a spell to the other side. It'll sure help to whittle down the criteria for the SSRI approach. MD's just don't have the time to spend to sort it out.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Well well I guess as the most recent one to be thrown against the rocks I should chime in. ;)

Larry, Phils my sherpa follow his advice and its hard to go wrong. Come up to CSOH and we will all commiserate have a few beers and maybe take the skiff out and freeze our butts off. :D

As for me the other day was a bad day, for me I know that I will have bad days but they never seem to last very long. Last night I went out with a south Boston irish friend of mine, we picked up another english friend dripping in a London accent, all of us in the same lonely boat. Went out and man I tell ya we hit about 4 places loaded for bear and looking for honey. Nothing worse than three guys on the prowl and ya know what nothing came of it and I woke up with a horrible hangover and an empty bed. Ah but I kinda knew that would happen, when I set out. ;) Had fun none the less.

My sherpa Phil has a saying "happiness is being happy with what you got" As long as you can wake up with a blinding hangover, cause you have friends who care about you and a dog to lick your face cause he needs to go out, and you have your health you have no choice but to be happy with what you got.

Best of luck to you Larry, FWIW I know how you feel better than most.

[S.V. Airlie]

Heck.. Joe you have been single for what a month.. Man.. my last date came around the time man created the wheel. I do not bleed for you.. Sorry.. LOL

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

ROTFLOL Jamie :D

Hey Larry another thing, never discount the friendship you have on the good ol WBF there are some very good people on here who honestly are good friends.

OUCH my head hurts

[S.V. Airlie]

Sorry.. I was mistaken.. The development of the wheel came after my last date.... LOL....
]So I bought a boat instead....Still no sympathy Joe.. none at all.

psss. That is why I like MMike's contributions.. All those attributes I never saw in real life....

[Larry P.]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the kind thoughts. Joe and Phil you guys a shout and we'll set up a meet. Thanks again to all. I know/hope things will get better.

[Chris Coose]

Oh my god.
I was in middle aged beautiful (mostly single) woman city last night.
We had, what has become, the bride's annual birthday dance party across the harbor.
We danced like crazy people. When James Brown's "Papa's got a Brand New Bag (extended version)" came on about 3/4 of the way through the place went nuts. I mean posessed.

[geeman]

Life is not easy at times.I see life as a path, in that path sometimes I come up on a tree thats blocking my way. I have to find a way around that tree.Some people simply sit down and give up because they cant seem to find their way around that tree.The lucky ones realize all you have to do is simply walk around it, knowing there WILL BE another tree further up the path.The trick is to keep moving,dont look back at the tree you just went around, and JUST KEEP moving.You can do it, its a matter of dont look back keep moving forward.

[George Jung]

Nice post, Paul, spot on. I"d second the comment that the best place to start might be with a counselor, or your Dr. (and I'd rcommend 'talking' first, before meds.). And agree, talking right here on the forum may just be a pretty effective 'circle of friends'. Good luck.

[S.V. Airlie]

Larry.. I wish you the best. Sorry about my earlier post.. as it was in reference to Joe... I wish you the best and I am sure it is tough...
There seems to be quite a few here in the same boat you are in.. So, a lot of support...

[Wild Dingo]

I think Pauls comments should get a repeat performance :cool:


In a perfect world there is reactive depression (the death of someone close, a significant loss like a divorce) and there is a chemical depression (everything is going well, but we are in a hole and can't climb out).
Chemical depression responds to medication, reactive depression doesn't.
In practice, we often have a mixed picture, a reactive depression on top of a chemical one we manage ourselves.
Some clues for a chemical depression are early morning wakening, appetite disturbances (too much or too little), OCD or anxiety states.
The only way to tell if the SSRI's are for us is to give them a trial, maybe two weeks. If we don't have a dramatic response, its probably not in our chemistry or we have something else.
If we want to try natural therapy, there is good evidence for the effectiveness of some forms of meditation and aerobic exercise. They are more effective in maintaining equilibrium after recovery from depression, and an episode can often be traced back to stopping a regular exercise pattern a few months before its onset. They dont help if we are in the hole.
The other thing that is useful is managing the rate of change. Regardless of the form of depression we have, change makes it worse and we have an intrinsic resistance to change. Its not a good idea to start a new relationship soon after a divorce. Clean out the garage and get things in some sort of shape.
The great thing about change is that it is treated by time. We slowly adapt to our new circumstances, but we can burn out if we try to push the rate.
Of course, this is just a general comment, you need to consult your doctor before you act on any advice etc. etc. etc.

Depression regardless of its cause... ie in Larrys case the divorce an loss of time with his son and mine when my mum commited suicide is depression and it is seriously truely deadly.

As a counsellor I should have realized that I was heading down "the hole" but I thought I could handle it... Heck Id seen and helped enough people suffering from it in my daily work over some 12 or so years!!... But I couldnt and didnt and didnt even realize it... A month after mum killed herself I quit my job and that was really the start... although by then I was already over halfway down the hole...

I didnt talk to anyone I didnt answer calls I didnt want to bloody know anyone cause I wasnt interested in anything or anyone... for 3 months I did NOTHING... just putzed around the house couldnt do anything in the shed couldnt get interested in the writing nothing interested me everything bored or gave me the shytes... I wasnt eating I wasnt sleeping I was essentially living on smokes and caffine... then her bloody highness quietly said "Honey youve gotta get out of this funk cause its hurting the kids I think you should get a job doin something you want to do"... But I had no bloody idea what I wanted to do!!.. I also didnt believe I was IN the hole just "a bit down"... but I was right down at the bottom of the hole and the part that gets me now lookin back is that the comments she made at the time about how I was affecting the kids let alone herself just didnt register!!

One day I decided to take her advice so I loaded the car and headed to Kalgoorlie... out of the blue no tellin her just drove away... luckily I took my mobile and she rang worried out of her head so I explained that I was goin to get a job out in the bush where I belonged and would call her back when I'd settled... Since then I now know she believed Id left her and the kids just walked away from them for good what hell she went through during that time must have been increadible and the confusion and pain for the little ones would have been shocking... but well she handled it... I gave her no choice.

For the next 2 months I couldnt get work (so for 5 months I didnt work AT ALL!!)... I just couldnt get it... shyteloads of work out in the goldfields but for the life of me I couldnt get it... I had all the tickets and licenses needed and could even show experience but it just wouldnt happen for me... so she was gettin down on the finances raiding savings and such to keep the house going kids fed an such... I was the same way out there... My son Aaron had also come up to find work and under orders from the missus to "be with dad and keep an eye on him"... but still I couldnt get work I had gotten to a point I didnt even talk to people I just couldnt handle anyone... I was on my knees in the hole...

It eventually got to the point that I took the car and went bush with a length of hose... no real plan no real thoughts of anything just an over riding feeling of... sadness... I remember parking up in a truck bay getting out of the car and just sitting there I dont think I really thought anything other than an over riding sadness an emptiness

Here I was a bloke in the prime of his life seriously... with a loving wife 8 wonderful kids and yet I was empty inside and only one word kept coming back to me... "enough".

My daughter Yazmyns boyfriend Dan and Aaron found me at 10.30 that night Id been there since I left Aaron at 8am... I was just sitting there in the middle of nowhere... in the dark beside the car with a length of hose duct taped to the muffler and stuck in the passenger window... and nothing... I just felt empty... I know if I had have been able to get my hands on a gun I wouldnt be sitting here writing this... And I do mean that.

We talked till 1am and then Aaron drove me back to town... and I actually had a good nights sleep the first since mums death and in the morning I seemed to have turned a corner... I do think it was talking it out with the boys that helped more than anything... the next day I got a job a casual job but it was a start then I had a call from Jo asking if I was okay and did I want her to come up and be with me... I guess it was the sudden realization of what I intended to do that came over me at that point... and since then Ive been right.. Life is good theres always going to be bad patches where things just go assup when you just feel empty

The word "enough" was the only thing mum wrote no suicide letter or note no warnings no words of love over the phone just that one word on the mirror "enough"... it was like it became a focal point of something so over ridingly sad and painfull that I began to live it... until it was all I had... I know it wasnt her intent... but that word is all I knew during that time

I was depressed... badly depressed... deadly depressed... if it wasnt for the boys I can honestly say I wouldnt be here now.

I dont know you from adam Larry... but if I can give you just one peice of advice mate... this is it... Talk to someone... take Joe and Phil up on their offer and talk to them go see a mate a friend a SOMEONE and just offload it talk it through then let it be.

and mate? Life is good

[geeman]

Several of us either have been, or are in the same place you are Larry.I almost gave up many times.I just didnt think I was strong enough to get thru it.It turned out I was, but just barely.What got me thru it finally was my woman, I met the gal that gave me the strength to get out of bed and try again the next day, and the next.Until here we are over 30 years later.
I gave myself 6 months of grieving time and then got out and got moving.Funny thing about women, seldom do they come knocking on your door wanting you, you have to go out and get one.

[S.V. Airlie]

Dingo.. extremely moving...thank you.. No, I have never been married but even so.. your post was well worth reading....
Those going through what Larry and Joe are going through.. take note...

[Wild Dingo]

Seriously Jamie I was and never have been as close to ending it as I was out there... and mate Ive never been as far down as I got either and by god I dont ever want to go back there! Only Dan and Aaron know how close I was I never told Jo nor any of the other kids and neither did the boys... pretty harrowing for them too... especially young Aaron who was still greiving himself for his nanna... I actually think him being there helped more than anything as he was her favorite of my children he was the last to see her alive and he knew how she died... brave kid

Just talking it through helped. A LOT

[S.V. Airlie]

Dingo.. my post was not negative... Far from it.. You gave a scenerio that those going through what you have and what Larry and Joe are going through now speaks volumes....
You made sense.. it was heartfelt and it came from someone who has been there and done that. If my comment did not indicate that, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
jamj

[Tristan]

OK Larry, some suggestions: 1. Keep your place well lighted, cheerful, keep TV or radio going. 2. Go out, don't stay inside too much. Be around people, talk, interact, if possible get involved in physical activity (exercise class, etc.). 3. Begin to "bounce your personality" off of a variety of women, all ages and kinds. Begin to get a feel for the kind of woman you feel comfortable with. I don't mean sex, I mean enjoying conversation with and the company of, whether it's a 60 year old waitress at the diner or a casual conversation with a book store clerk. 4. Plan and enjoy simple activities with your boy, not the Disney Land type stuff, just the simple stuff you and he can enjoy together, the kind of thing that he, some day, will be able to say, "My dad loved boatyards (or whatever), he used to take me with him and we'd talk to all the guys who were working on their boats and then go for a steak at -------, it was great!" Anyhow, you get the idea. In other words, break life up into small bites of enjoyable stuff and start biting into it. Keep busy! Start today! Then get back on line and tell us what positive little things you've done this afternoon! See a talking type counselor or an MD if things get too rough, but maybe try some of the above stuff first. Keep in touch with folks on the forum! By the way, I've been there, done that myself, took me a couple years but it all came together!

[Wild Dingo]

Jamie no worries I didnt see that in your post mate
cheers

I think that depression is an increadibly selfish disorder... its those that are the other part of your life that feel the pain as much as you do... but you dont see it because your so focused on you that the people closest to you that matter most to you just dont enter into it.. but theyre hurting as much as you are just differently.

Talking helps.

In my case Jo and the kids then Yaz Aaron and Dan but to Joe Id say Lisa and Tess are also really hurting as is Larrys ex and his laddie (Note here please Ive not been divorced so I cant say for certain this is so I can only say its what I think *based on the years of counselling* that they would also be feeling but I could be wrong)... when I start going down now I try to focus on one of them and consentrate on them how would they be feeling how are they behaving this takes the focus of me even if only for a small time... doesnt always work of course but mostly it takes a little bit away you start to try to make them happy try to get them doin stuff and that again helps... not always but most of the time... see depressions an isolationist selfish disorder that ANYONE can succumb to no matter who they are where they live what they do or how well to do they may or may not be its all irrlevant ANYONE can become depressed... some people get morbidly depressed as I was others get depressed and morose while others get tearyeyed and continuously sad... but no matter it can all lead to the same alternative to life.

Its deadly... do something! talk to someone! and by christ do it now cause really you dont know how far down that bloody hole you are till its almost too late

sorry I will now shut up.

[Lew Barrett]

We've all been there, and even the advice of friends can be hard to contenance when one's depression is rooted in reality and is so strong, it's a physical presence much as being stricken with illness can be.
I find nothing unusual in being depressed and exhausted after only a year following a divorce. It took me about two years to really feel comfortable dating and going out socially after my divorce, but as I practiced my social skills, and as my life slowly gathered speed leaving the train wreck behind, life actually flowered and I learned that having survived the crisis, I became stronger and actually happier than I had been when I was locked in a marriage that seemed to be my whole life at the time, but was actually getting in my way. This sort of rebirth and discovery is terribly difficult, time consuming, painful and opaque while it is occuring but in retrospect, can become a turning point that one appreciates as good fortune later in life. But in the midst of the storm, there is only pain.
Some good advice here, and thanks to Paul, Mr. Know-it-all, and several others for insightful comments. Probably the one thing I might add, and why I am adding at all, is that feeling depressed, foolish, unhappy, and generally uncertain and out of control after a divorce, especially one that involves a child, is what one should feel. Totally normal, in other words. A year is nothing in respect to a lifetime, even though the days drag and every hour can be hard. The sun will shine again for you, brighter and higher than before, but the path of return can be rocky, strewn with setbacks, but it can be found and traveled.
Don't expect too much too fast; that's my best advice. Take help where you find it, but do consider some professional assistance, and know only you can determine what help is actually best. Don't be too afraid of your feelings. Most all of us have been to the brink of dispair, looked over and come back. You will too. Regarding getting laid: Sure, we all want to replace the hole in our hearts. I wasn't really comfortable with women for several years after my seperation, and women sensed my dispair, making it harder to get exactly the thing I wanted most. Life, your path and your choices have dealt you a hard one. Know; it will get better. Truly in this case, what doesn't kill you will make you stronger. Consider taking that trip up the Hudson.

[Katherine]

Sometimes what starts out as a situational issue can become a chemical one. Being under stress for a long time can really screw with your internal chemistry. A good doctor will work with you to find the best therapy that works for you.

[Norman Bernstein]

FWIW....

I went through a period of depression back in 1991-92. There wasn't anything especially situational about it, other than perhaps a bit of career burn-out (which was cured when I cut the cord with my employer of 18 years and opened my own shop), but in my case, there was quite substantial evidence of a genetic component; my father and sister both suffered from it, at lone time or another.

I resolved it by a year and a half of therapy with a very good counselor, and about an equal amount of time taking Prozac. I doubt either one of them alone would have resolved things... you really need both.

To this day, I'm still a cyclic depressive... every few months, I go through a few days, to a week, of being down in the dumps... but I'm aware of it, try to do things to help resolve it, and can deal with it. My wife thinks I should take a low level antidepressant like Lexapro all the time, but I really don't think it's needed; my occasional and periodic depressions are part of me, maybe, in some strange way, necessary. Prozac has a tendency to 'flatten' your spirits, which, to me, is a negative side effect. I'm not advocating manic depression, but everyone probably needs a bit of 'high' and 'low' in thier life.

If nothing else, I'd suggest finding a good therapist... everyone has at least some resolvable baggage.

[ishmael]

Coose said,

"Oh my god.
I was in middle aged beautiful (mostly single) woman city last night."

Um, you might want to rephrase that.

And Katy is right, the chemistry changes.

Goodwill to all, in their struggles. We are the WWWBF. Walking wounded wooden boat forum. I think I'll take a note from Joe's book and trademark that.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Phil,

I can't say for sure, but what this has to do with Larry is he's recently divorced, is suffering that. He doesn't strike me as a candidate for anti-depressants, but I don't know. The automatic assumption that he needs to be happy, and if he isn't he needs drugs, is way off base. He has every right to be unhappy. If he weren't a bit unhappy I'd worry about it.


We've been through this a couple of times Jack, and you're absolutely right, you don't know.

Larry, you should consider getting some therapy, it's mind clearing, and will help eliminate any other possible reason why you're down. I sympathize with you, I went through what you're going through now. Things will get better, but check it out... it's well worth in my humble opinion. Winter is a bad time anyway, since you're left with your thoughts mostly... take some care of yourself.;) :)

[ishmael]

I don't need to know, that's up to Larry, Peter. I've said my piece, I think it pretty accurate.

[pcford]

I don't need to know, Peter. I've said my piece, I think it pretty accurate.

I think your comments are inaccurate and stupid, Ish. Typical misunderstanding regarding depression. Feeling "blue" is not depression...though it may trigger it. Depression can be very, very serious.

Ish, you would be well advised toremember to turn on mind before engaging keyboard.

[ishmael]

Because we disagree doesn't make me wrong.

As I said above, we can't evaluate this over the web. If it gets too hard I hope Larry hunts up a good counselor. Even a few sessions with someone skilled will shed some light on it.

[doorstop]

What do you do when you're in a bad place and it gets harder to get up every morning?

Move! That is exactly what I am doing. In the early hours of next Sunday morning I will get into my ute and drive 4,500kms to a totally new place, a new job and a different life. Over the last 18 months my marriage has broken down, work has gotten scarce and I have come close to suicide. just over 2 weeks ago I found a job advertised on the net, last Tuesday I had a phone interview with the CEO of the community and next Sunday I head off to renovate houses on a community in the north west of Western Australia. A HUGE CHANGE but one which I am really looking forward to. Move man MOVE!!!

[John Most]

Oh my god.
I was in middle aged beautiful (mostly single) woman city last night.
We had, what has become, the bride's annual birthday dance party across the harbor.
We danced like crazy people. When James Brown's "Papa's got a Brand New Bag (extended version)" came on about 3/4 of the way through the place went nuts. I mean posessed.

You must be on some thing.

[Hwyl]

Move! That is exactly what I am doing. In the early hours of next Sunday morning I will get into my ute and drive 4,500kms to a totally new place, a new job and a different life. Over the last 18 months my marriage has broken down, work has gotten scarce and I have come close to suicide. just over 2 weeks ago I found a job advertised on the net, last Tuesday I had a phone interview with the CEO of the community and next Sunday I head off to renovate houses on a community in the north west of Western Australia. A HUGE CHANGE but one which I am really looking forward to. Move man MOVE!!!


Are you moving to Broome?

[Loon]

Nowadays more people die from depression than from cancer (in%), so please don't hesitate to get help in time! your life is important to your child.
The only reason that kept me from killing myself was the thought of the long term effects the deed would have on my grown-up daughter and the feelings (needless) of quilt that my wife would have had. It seemed that suicide was the only tolerable way out; I had even unexplainable physical hard pains which I couldn't place other than somewhere in my upper torso. Now from another experience I know that the pain was the same kind and intencity as in a heart attack but not located; kind of general hard pain in your torso.

I needed a six months sick leave, medication and also therapy for several years. When I started mending I painted the outside of our house during the days when my wife was at work. This nearly mindless physical labor was a good and I understand widely accepted cure. It has been told that hermits/saints carried stones around when they had it difficult. I have found that swimming, especially in cold water, is also good.

If the "cold springs offer" is serious, take it if you can and above all don't think it's sissy to speak about your problem. If it's any help to you, I can tell you that my friends considered me so hardheaded and equipped with such nerves that I'd be the last man to get any kind of burn-out or depression. Alcohol may seem to help at first but quickly only makes things worse DAMHIKIT.

P.S. I was about 54 and happily over 15years in my 2nd and happy marriage when this happened.

[Phil Heffernan]

If the "cold springs offer" is serious, take it if you can and above all don't think it's sissy to speak about your problem.

Yes, the Cold Spring offer is very serious. Loons advice is spot on, you need to talk with your friends, not so much as a source of free advice, but as a source of warm emotion and encouragement.

The important thing is to stay connected to the life force in us all...And you can empower it by being with others who care for you...

PH

PS Good professional advice (therapist) is worth every penny at times of crisis (opportunity) like this...

[ishmael]

It can be the hardest thing in the world, when down, to reach out for some help. I don't know where Larry is at, but he must be pretty down to tell it to the forum. When in that mind, nothing looks like it will help. Your world is ending, and in extreme cases people do off themselves.

Whatever the arguments about the use of anti-depressants, Larry, help is there. People here are a step. Seeing someone face to face is another. Do it! Ask around. In initial consultation you want to interview them as much as they interview you. There's someone wiser than you in these matters who can help. A fair amount of chaff to find the wheat, but it's there. If this is more than a passing shower, find someone of good reputation and spill your guts. You won't regret it.

[Wild Dingo]

Move! That is exactly what I am doing. In the early hours of next Sunday morning I will get into my ute and drive 4,500kms to a totally new place, a new job and a different life. Over the last 18 months my marriage has broken down, work has gotten scarce and I have come close to suicide. just over 2 weeks ago I found a job advertised on the net, last Tuesday I had a phone interview with the CEO of the community and next Sunday I head off to renovate houses on a community in the north west of Western Australia. A HUGE CHANGE but one which I am really looking forward to. Move man MOVE!!!

And mate? You will have a bloody ball!! :D AND THE FISHIN??? ooooooooohhh gawd your gonna LOVE the fishin!! :cool: Ever caught a Barra? Your gonna do that! Ever caught a mudcrab straight out of the mudflats? Your gonna do that! Ever sat around with a bunch of old pharts from a different culture and just shot the breeze? Your gonna do that too!! Ever wondered how to find tucker when there is "none"? Your gonna soon get to know how... You ever been hot? I mean STINKIN SWEATIN DRAININ DESPIRATELY CANT DO A BLOODY THING ITS SOOOOOOOO FLAMIN HOT... hot?... Yep your gonna do that to!! :D

Good luck mate and remember to give us a hoi will yer? :cool: I know your heading up through Newman mate but if you decide otherwise give me a hoi an I'll give you directions or come meet yer and youve got a bed here at Dingo Creek... were a noisy mob a tad disorganized and a bit manic but were pretty good company but we will give yer a feed and a bed talk yer earholes off and well see yer on yer way with a smile. :cool: .. so remember dont leave that bloody phone number behind alright!:mad: Oh and I'll give Vick and Kree a hoi when you say your headin into town so theyre ready for yer... great excuse for a barbie an a few drinkie poos eh! :D

But actually the general concensus among counsellors is that after a devistating event... divorce death in the family etc... you should NOT make any life changes for at least a year just try to carry on as usual... yeah right!! And then theres the blokes such as yourself that a move to the other side of the country is just the damned ticket... so go for broke mate and from me to you stoppers... LET LIFE RIP AND HAVE A BALL!! :cool:

As I said any probs give me a hoi alright? Im only as far as the end of that phone mate give me a yell... "Oi boofhead! Its me stoppers just wanted to say gidday mate!" :cool:

[TomF]

First, I agree that depression kills. Saw it both in my casework years ago, and in my family life. My wife's seriously depressive, has a history of suicide attempts (all but 1 before my time, thank God), and is among the 15% or so of the population which doesn't respond positively to SSRIs. Or to any of the other depression meds out there - tried them all. I still worry that the black dog will ultimately get her.

So I'm sugar-coating nothing. As others have said, Larry, if your brain chemistry's out of whack, it's worth getting it back in whack. SSRIs worked for me, at one point in my life. Talk to your doctor, and give them a whirl.

But Jack's got a real, valid point.

Larry, if you weren't feeling depressed about your divorce, what would that say about how much the relationship meant to you? Would it not be awful, abysmally awful, to feel nothing? Or simply some muted, manageable blues?

Suffering is endemic, and can be fruitful if it's faced, suffered, and probed. It's the wellspring of much of the world's great art, literature, music, philosophy, and frankly ... love. But it bloody hurts, and who welcomes it?

Now, after years of trying to push pain aside, I'm trying to welcome it. To accept that there's emotional pain that actually indicates health, rather than pathology. And that can be fruitful, when it's accepted and suffered. For good or ill, it opens the depths.

We don't do "depths" well in our society. Among my wife's university colleagues, there's not one who isn't on SSRIs. Not one. Do they to a person have such searing, blinding chemical imbalances that they are physiologically disabled or suicidal? I can't believe it. I do believe that they're using SSRIs the way they use alcohol at parties we attend, or work, or various other escapist activities. I see people avoiding responsibility, and trying to paper-over the cracks in their lives. If they instead acknowledged and explored those cracks, their teaching would be much more profound, and their family lives more real. IMHO.

Keep a finger on your pulse, Larry, for sure. And talk it through - as so many here have suggested. But the pain you're feeling is, paradoxically, quite likely an indication of your emotional health - your ability to perceive major loss. It's what you do with that, that matters.

t

[doorstop]

Shane, mate, many many thanks. If I don't catch you on the way across and up this trip I will certainly get down to Dingo creek asap! I will have to go south to visit my baby sister too.
I am so looking forward to being there! Over the last few days a number of local people around here who I didn't think even noticed me have said they will miss me and thanks for the work I have done for them etc etc. That stuff also helps rebuild shattered confidence in one self. I am still scared of what I am doing I guess but also so much looking forward to the big move and learning to LIVE again!
There is some great advice on this thread, I guess we all think we are doing it alone. We think no-one else can know how tough it can get. How utterly desperate life can seem. Gentlemen, you are just that, Gentlemen..... and I thank you all sincerely for your insights and experiences so freely shared.
Larry, you're not alone mate.

[John Most]

When in the depths of melancholy, quite often self medicating with alcohol will do you just as much good as a psychotropic medicine prescribed by a md. And it is musch faster acting and easily obtainable. Joe has the right idea there.

I have also been told that marijuana usage can help.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

S.O.D
Same Old Dutch :rolleyes: