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Memphis Mike
01-04-2007, 05:36 PM
Well you decide.

A typical meeting in Memphis might go like this, we'll say a Newcomer's Meeting.

When someone announces they are a newcomer, the High Priest of AA is summoned to the meeting. Ever AA district has a High Priest.

The High Priest performs an exorcism on the unsuspecting newcomer to remove Demon Alcohol from the very depths of their soul.

After the Demon is removed we all light candles and hold hands and gather around our new member chanting the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions and various other AA slogans.

In most cases the newcomer is simply overpowered by all of this and brainwashed on the spot.

He or she {;) } is now ready to do our bidding and is enslaved for the next ninety days to be of service to those of us who are fortunate enough to hold the various titles that we hold.

At the end of the ninety days, they become true members and are allowed to participate in the exorcisms and brainwashing ceremonies.

So call it what ya will. I don't care. It keeps me sober. If it's a cult. So be it.

geeman
01-04-2007, 05:38 PM
Mike , I'm on your side here.As I said in the other thread "cult or not it seems to work"

Phillip Allen
01-04-2007, 05:39 PM
only if Janet Reno needs to set fire to em

S/V Laura Ellen
01-04-2007, 05:42 PM
If it works (and it does), who are we to judge?
Something inherently good can't be a cult.

Ron Williamson
01-04-2007, 05:51 PM
Being addicted to alcohol is worse than being addicted to AA.
R

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-04-2007, 06:05 PM
Just because they use some mystical trappings like some religions doesn't make them a cult.
AA is not trying to co-opt anyone's common sense. They just want to help flush alchohol from the systems of those that are being destroyed by it.

Chris Coose
01-04-2007, 06:12 PM
Jesus Mike I read this with my heart in throat.
I was relieved you didn't mention the secret sex stuff.

geeman
01-04-2007, 06:13 PM
I have the secret books, dont knock it if ya aint tried it ,lol

Memphis Mike
01-04-2007, 06:14 PM
Jesus Mike I read this with my heart in throat.
I was relieved you didn't mention the secret sex stuff.

Man Chris! You just let the cat outa the bag!:eek: I wasn't going to tell them about the orgies.

geeman
01-04-2007, 06:16 PM
Not orgies,, they are "celebrations!"

geeman
01-04-2007, 06:19 PM
I hadnt thought of that but , that is true I think.And I agree with Norm about govt forcing religion as part of a CURE

Katherine
01-04-2007, 06:19 PM
It doesn't require that you acknowledge God, but merely a higher power.

Phillip Allen
01-04-2007, 06:20 PM
seems minor to me Norman...though I do acknowledge your point

geeman
01-04-2007, 06:21 PM
So,, how would an Atheist deal with it then kate?

Chris Coose
01-04-2007, 06:22 PM
Are you guys in Memphis going to do the blood letting on the next lunar eclipse?
Have you made the "Now you can buy the home vacuum appliances and attachments" level yet?

What do you guys do in lieu of authentic virgins?

Katherine
01-04-2007, 06:22 PM
There's a whole chapter of the big book dedicated to atheist / agnostics. It's available on line if you want to read it.

Katherine
01-04-2007, 06:23 PM
What do you guys do in lieu of authentic virgins?Sacrifice the girls who couldn't get a date.

geeman
01-04-2007, 06:23 PM
Where would I find it Kate I'm inerested in how they handle it

geeman
01-04-2007, 06:24 PM
uhhhhhhhh, define "authentic Virgins" is there such a thing in 2007?

Katherine
01-04-2007, 06:25 PM
http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm

Chapter 4

geeman
01-04-2007, 06:25 PM
Thx Kate

Leon m
01-04-2007, 06:28 PM
Do you get to wear all white after labor day ?

Katherine
01-04-2007, 06:30 PM
Do you get to wear all white after labor day ?just the shoes.

Chris Coose
01-04-2007, 06:33 PM
I don't think it's a cult, and admire their work and success rate.

If I have any 'bone to pick' with AA, it's that the program's liturgy requires an acknowledgement of God... and seeing as how some judges in some jurisdictions have the power, as part of sentencing, to require a defendant to attend the program, I think it treads over the line of spearation of church and state.

Good one Norm.

AA has guidelines called the 12 traditions and a few of them cover AA here. AA has no opinion on ouside issues, would avoid controvercy and would not ally itself with any sect, denomination or institution, we are a program of attraction rather than promotion, so you won't see AA addressing this one specifically.
In various districts there are committees that will bring education of the program to the outside professional community and hopes are that judges would be included in this educating.

I have never personally engaged a god or higher power in my AA experience.

There really are no rules except to be a member you would have a desire to stop drinking.

AA has a religious background but should not be considered a religion or a church in this member's opinion.

Katherine
01-04-2007, 06:37 PM
I took a look at it... and it basically still demands that atheists/agnostics acknowledge a 'Power greater than themselves', I said that several posts ago.:rolleyes:

Depending on your beliefs, a power greater then you may not be "God".

hokiefan
01-04-2007, 07:06 PM
I took a look at it... and it basically still demands that atheists/agnostics acknowledge a 'Power greater than themselves', i.e., a God. It gets somewhat 'ecumenical' an allowing different folks to have different 'concepts' of God... but still requires that acknowledgement.

Sorry, but it still bothers me.

I don't think the problem here is AA's thoughts on a higher power, but that the government sometimes specifies AA as required treatment. Am I missing something Norman?

Bobby

katiedobe
01-04-2007, 07:41 PM
AA is a safe place to go to talk about your addiction. I have never seen a person arrested at a meeting, nor have I ever seen a cop come to a meeting looking for a suspect. Just to get sober. Lots of cops there then.
AA is not a cult. It does not demand loyalty to any one person as the "president or Boss, or exhaulted leader",
You want to talk about cults talk about the Catholic Church or the Masons or even the US Military system.

Memphis Mike
01-04-2007, 07:56 PM
It doesn't require that you acknowledge God, but merely a higher power.

AA doesn't REQUIRE anything. We suggest that you find a "Power Greater Than Yourself."

The one and only requirement is that you have a desire to stop drinking.

Hell, we got some folks that come to the meetings drunk and are welcome to stay as long as they are not disruptive.

We've got atheists in the program that are staying sober through AA.

Phil Heffernan
01-04-2007, 10:47 PM
AA doesn't REQUIRE anything. We suggest that you find a "Power Greater Than Yourself."

The one and only requirement is that you have a desire to stop drinking.

Hell, we got some folks that come to the meetings drunk and are welcome to stay as long as they are not disruptive.

We've got atheists in the program that are staying sober through AA.

I think AA may be one of the most successful social experiments of the 20th century...

PH

LeeG
01-04-2007, 10:59 PM
I took a look at it... and it basically still demands that atheists/agnostics acknowledge a 'Power greater than themselves', i.e., a God. It gets somewhat 'ecumenical' an allowing different folks to have different 'concepts' of God... but still requires that acknowledgement.

Sorry, but it still bothers me.

bothered me too, that's the artifact of acceptable terms in the early 1900's when AA started. Medical models for behavioural disorders hadn't taken hold in the general populace so a lot of articulation for discontent rests in spiritual language.

My dad called his higher power in AA the waste basket while his spiritual model was closer to native American. Not sure if he got beyond the waste basket but that was his greater power.

On a common sense level injesting alcohol for the alcohol abuser puts IT into a position that resides over all cognition. IT is a power greater than cognition or oneself so it makes sense to me to think of a power greater than what one puts into ones system. You could have your higher power be the holes in the acoustic tiling. Apple pie. It's not set in stone and it won't undermine ones ability to rationalize why not being able to stop drinking is ok.

There's small groups of non-AA meetings but they are few and far between.

Paul Pless
01-04-2007, 11:02 PM
bold emphasis mine
I took a look at it... and it basically still demands that atheists/agnostics acknowledge a 'Power greater than themselves', i.e., a God. It gets somewhat 'ecumenical' an allowing different folks to have different 'concepts' of God... but still requires that acknowledgement.

Sorry, but it still bothers me.

Not true, in the sense that the 'power greater than ourselves' must be a 'god'. Certainly from a logical standpoint, Norman, you can admit that a group of people striving for a common goal, is more powerful than an individual attempting to reach that same goal. Many individual members of AA or NA who are unable or unwilling to accept a capital letter 'G', God as their higher power use the group as their higher power. Others define their higher power to be mother nature. And many other examples of nondeity higher powers exist as well.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-04-2007, 11:13 PM
It probably didn't take much soap in your case. Maybe that's a use for all those little slivers of soap that accumulate in the shower. :D :p


Keep coming back Donn.;)

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-04-2007, 11:17 PM
Jesus Mike I read this with my heart in throat.
I was relieved you didn't mention the secret sex stuff.


Let me come and attend one of your group conscience meetings will ya?
:D


Actually, I find this thread quite interesting. What AA is really about is stopping drinking. If you don't want to stop, find something wrong with the organization and don't come. ;)

Phil Heffernan
01-04-2007, 11:20 PM
Actually, I find this thread quite interesting. What AA is really about is stopping drinking. If you don't want to stop, find something wrong with the organization and don't come. ;)

And that just about sums it up.

PH

Memphis Mike
01-04-2007, 11:31 PM
Well said, Paul. I know one fella who got sober and claimed his higher power was a green plastic worm that he carried around in his pocket.:D

I've always wanted a talkin frog but have yet to come across one so I guess God will have to do for now.;)

Phil Heffernan
01-04-2007, 11:40 PM
Well said, Paul. I know one fella who got sober and claimed his higher power was a green plastic worm that he carried around in his pocket.:D

I've always wanted a talkin frog but have yet to come across one so I guess God will have to do for now.;)

MM, I got a talkin frog if you want to borrow it for awhile...

Only problem, is it talks like Donn
:eek:

PH

Memphis Mike
01-04-2007, 11:52 PM
MM, I got a talkin frog if you want to borrow it for awhile...

Only problem, is it talks like Donn
:eek:

PH

Nah, I think I'll have to leave that one alone, Phil. Too sqeaky.:D

shamus
01-05-2007, 03:19 AM
And many other examples of nondiety higher powers exist as well.

Big fat gods presumably?

JimD
01-05-2007, 05:11 AM
There's few things worse than a roomful of sober fanatics.