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Concordia...41
12-31-2006, 09:02 PM
I'm not going to argue with you about this,George. This is not the place. I stated my opinion on the subject. That's more than enough. If you want to discuss it with me further, take it to the Bilge, where it belongs. My opinion won't change down there, but it'll keep it out of this part of the forum.


Donn - for the record, I think you are an insufferable horse's ass.

You won't give a rat's butt, but I've defended you, followed your gardening advice, patronized the book sellers you recommended, and you might recall - sent you a couple hundred dollars of CPES.

In return for the advice and friendship I've found here I've tried to be encouraging and supporting in return.

Now I'm tired and down and loosing my fight. Can't you just be nice for once?



The entire thread:


http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?p=1466957#post1466957

I said that was my last post and I've deleted everything from my profile that I could, but it won't let me remove it all.

Well, I can end on a high note. When I ran this through the spell checker, it highlighted a typo in Donn's post :D

jack grebe
12-31-2006, 09:11 PM
At 166 words ($2.40 per word per the classified ad order form in our sponsor's publication), my post works out to $398.40.

I'd give several times that to just find some help.

I've just made a New Years resolution & you may all consider this my last post.

- Margo Geer & S/V SarahI for one hope this is 1 resolution you don't keep:(

Tar Devil
12-31-2006, 09:14 PM
Margo, check your email.

This, indeed, would be a very lousy start to 2007!

Phil

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2006, 09:21 PM
Margo I need you on here.
Only an insufferable horse's ass could drive a wonderful person like Margo off this forum. Donn, you should be ashamed of yourself. :(

Instead of apologizing you post "Sorry you feel this way, Margo." :rolleyes:

Phillip Allen
12-31-2006, 09:39 PM
I'm afraid Donn is so self-assured he cannot imagine a reality which could supersede his own...Donn, a bit of indirect advice (I'm afraid you'll turn it down) would be to point out the first step toward foolishness is to believe one's own propaganda.

I do not want Margo to go...I prefer Donn left if one must go...given the choice I prefer neither goes...

(that's about as strong a statement as I can get out at this time)

Paul Pless
12-31-2006, 09:56 PM
Margo,

With the exception of the deaths of a number of forum members, your above post is bringing me more sadness than anything I've ever encountered here.

I'm sorry for the pain you must be experiencing over this and hope that you will reconsider.

yours,

Paul

Phillip Allen
12-31-2006, 10:06 PM
erster...I hope (and believe) this statement of your is over stated...

Phillip Allen
12-31-2006, 10:11 PM
just a comment on hourly wages...I have been associated with masonry for a long time and relitives before that...the highest paid mason in 1953 recieved $3.37 1/2 /hour (I have the records in my possession now)...bringing that forward 54 years, the $20.00 they recieve in this area at this time represents a serious wage cut...so don't expect sympathy from me...the mason needs $60.00 an hour...

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2006, 10:12 PM
I must say that the original thread poster was way over the line tonight with numerous posts across the forum. The problem still stems from the lack of uniform moderating and bilge attitudes that have wondered into other sections. Sad day indeed. This place is on the edge of a total meltdown for consistant dependable and quality boat replies in its present membership, that carries with it some real and diverse experience, except for an occasional drop in unless a main player steps in:( .

Geeezus same old broken record you have been playing for years, just shut up already :rolleyes:

Phillip Allen
12-31-2006, 10:15 PM
howyadoin Joe?

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
12-31-2006, 10:17 PM
I have no idea what happened.
I'll be damned if anybody's gonna run me off Margo.
Please come back.

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2006, 10:17 PM
howyadoin Joe?

doing ;)

Phillip Allen
12-31-2006, 10:17 PM
let her calm down for a few days then Claudia will contact her for us...

Phillip Allen
12-31-2006, 10:18 PM
hang in there buddy...

Mrleft8
12-31-2006, 10:25 PM
I miss all the good stuff...... :(

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2006, 10:29 PM
The list of long time members are getting shorter.

:rolleyes: Dude just because some have gone, got bored, or passed the bar does not mean others have not come to take the place of those that leave. This is a living changing & evolving forum.

Threads: 59,089, Posts: 934,093, Members: 13,739
Welcome to our newest member, David S.

You don't what the hell your talking about as usual Oyster

531,793 Posts in the Bilge. 137,308 posts in Building / Repair. The good old forum is doing fine don't you worry so much about it.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
12-31-2006, 10:29 PM
OK.......I read the thread in question.
If we can't exchange information to further our projects what good is this forum?
Since when is Donn "the legal dept."?
Opinion's are like.....well you get the point eh?

Memphis Mike
12-31-2006, 10:39 PM
It would be a shame to lose you Margo.:( Not only are you a member of this forum but a friend of mine as well. Please don't go.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-31-2006, 11:08 PM
It's okay for people to disagree with one another, and even say what they want to say... They may get scotted, but thats their choice.

This thread turned personal out of the bilge, and worse than that, into an area that was nobodys business except Wooden Boat and the forum administrator.



Great... We lose a woman who has contributed to this forum in so many places, including sharing the tragic passing of her husband with us, the triumph of her own work on their fabulous boat, the generosity of her character in materials, her sailing adventures, not to mention her beautiful presence.

Congratulations you idiots... you really fucked up this time.

Phillip Allen
12-31-2006, 11:11 PM
just who you including in this list of idiots Pete...

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-31-2006, 11:13 PM
Oyster and Donn specifically.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
12-31-2006, 11:15 PM
You've made your money Oyster.
Some of these younger guys need to start somewhere.
If I lived closer to Margo and knowing what she's been through I'd work for free.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-31-2006, 11:17 PM
Oyster, what is your problem.... You whine and chew and bitch about the forum, how its moderated, who posts, the political slant, get mad when people question your building methods, get all hurt and pout... grow the **** up. OR JUST DON"T COME HERE IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT. You're proud to say all right... and you don't know when you're just being a dick. At least keep it in the bilge.

Phillip Allen
12-31-2006, 11:24 PM
just thinking...if there are people who advertise properly in the mag then maintain a presents in the orlop and weather decks, then it follows that too much attention in the bilge takes away from the posturing possible above...less business…is this thought line unreasonable?

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
12-31-2006, 11:30 PM
I think you're the one who dosen't get it Oyster.
Money isn't everything to everyone.
Some people are just looking for a better situation or location to work in.
Working for Margo on that beautiful boat would be better than working for a guy like you I'd think, eh?
Might be worth the pay cut.

Bob Adams
12-31-2006, 11:31 PM
It's okay for people to disagree with one another, and even say what they want to say... They may get scotted, but thats their choice.

This thread turned personal out of the bilge, and worse than that, into an area that was nobodys business except Wooden Boat and the forum administrator.



Great... We lose a woman who has contributed to this forum in so many places, including sharing the tragic passing of her husband with us, the triumph of her own work on their fabulous boat, the generosity of her character in materials, her sailing adventures, not to mention her beautiful presence.

Congratulations you idiots... you really fucked up this time.

Rarely do I agree with PMJ, this is one of those times.

Nanoose
12-31-2006, 11:32 PM
...attitudes that have wondered into other sections.

I can't make that make any sense.

Did you mean WANDERED?

Phillip Allen
12-31-2006, 11:33 PM
yep peter done alright this time (even a blind hog finds an acorn every once in a while... :) ) ...don't get mad Peter...I smiled!

Nanoose
12-31-2006, 11:35 PM
... and finally gave up with the condensing attitude.


Can't make sense of this either!...wait...did you mean CONDESCENDING?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-31-2006, 11:36 PM
Where does my anger fit in above the bilge Mike? Down here, you get what you get... up there, you regularly have a little hissy fit and get pissed off with someone... even this post is an example...

Who asked if you would work for 20 bucks an hour? NOBODY. If you don't like the rate... piss off and shut the hell up.

Anyway, I'm severely pissed at a thread that was perfectly civil and reasonable until you and Donn chimed in.... and upset Margo enough for her to withdraw. If it was in violation of forum rules, let Scot deal with it.

Phillip Allen
12-31-2006, 11:40 PM
Damn Peter...you sound real reasonable tonight...how to I argue with that?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-31-2006, 11:41 PM
Rarely do I agree with PMJ, this is one of those times.

Yeah, but you still have a nice boat.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-31-2006, 11:46 PM
Well, here was my day...

An old friend/girlfriend whose parents live about a half hour away was down for Christmas.

Her sister has been suffering from an ever debilitating bipolar disorder that during the bad episodes results in shizophrenic affectations... in other words, a serious psychosis. She had one of these episodes here at Christmas, resulting in my friend and her 87 year old dad who has been trying to be parent supportive, driving her back to Montreal to her doctor and placed in hospital... 4 hours each way.

She called, I went over, talked to her parents. I told them that at their age they needed to consider what would happen to their daughter if they weren't around, and to consider some assisted living etc etc etc..

Drove my friend with her 9 year old daughter to the Toronto airport to catch her flight back to Victoria BC.

Life is short, and there are detours, roadblocks, and accidents.

Phillip Allen
12-31-2006, 11:49 PM
Well...I wish your friend(s) improved luck in the coming year...and peace

pcford
01-01-2007, 12:03 AM
There must be a strange alignment of the stars tonight. For the first and probably last time, I find myself agreeing with both Donn and erster. (one could insert a wide-eyed smiley here) ?!!

First, the original post was an ad. Simple enough. Anyone who runs a discussion board (like I do) will tell you what a pain people that contravene the rules and post their ads on the board. Relatively few discussion boards allow one to post ads. If they do, it is for a small and select membership.

Second, it is not fair to ask someone to work for $15 to 20 an hour as a boatwright contractor. If you want to hire someone and take care of all the benefits, well, fine that is in the ballpark.

Since this is a board primarily for owners, most of the stories we hear are from the owner's side. Building and restoring boats is a wonderful craft, but it is a heck of a way to make a living. And unfortunately there are many boatowners that will attempt to take advantage of you. I've been lucky for many years. Maybe I can sense the skunks better.

Building wooden boats is a highly skilled trade. It is also slow and expensive work. Very, very few of the people that post here truly _need_ a wooden boat. It is a luxury. And it is not fair to expect boatbuilders to subsidize your luxury; to give up their necessities so that the boatowner can have a luxury.

pcford
01-01-2007, 12:05 AM
Sorry for your problems, Peter, all the best.

JimD
01-01-2007, 12:08 AM
http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/data/500/medium/boat_222.jpg (http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/7063/size/big/cat/all/limit/all)

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
01-01-2007, 12:14 AM
My day was fine until you guys ran Margo off.
Being right won't save you from being a jerk in my eyes.
Some do it for the love of wooden boats and some do it for money.
I guess we disagree.......again.


Nice photo Jim. (wink)

Phillip Allen
01-01-2007, 12:15 AM
nice pic

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
01-01-2007, 12:28 AM
She's gone, you're still here, trying to explain everything.
Quit standing there like a target if you don't want mud in yer face, Dweeb.

Nanoose
01-01-2007, 12:30 AM
Drove my friend with her 9 year old daughter to the Toronto airport to catch her flight back to Victoria BC.

It's such a small world...wonder if I know her. Maybe PM me...

Deb

Phillip Allen
01-01-2007, 12:30 AM
She's gone, you're still here, trying to explain everything.
Quit standing there like a target if you don't want mud in yer face, Dweeb.

I notice Donn has ducked out

Nanoose
01-01-2007, 12:32 AM
JimD - nice pic. What is it? Where can I get one? I gotta chunk of wall that wants to meet that pic...

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
01-01-2007, 12:35 AM
Please don't leave, I still have mud left.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
01-01-2007, 12:38 AM
Please don't leave, I still have mud left.


http://www.guardian.co.tt/photos/data/media/50/mud-man.jpg

High C
01-01-2007, 01:32 AM
...There must be a strange alignment of the stars tonight. For the first and probably last time, I find myself agreeing with both Donn and erster...

First, the original post was an ad. Simple enough....

Of course it was, totally inappropriate by any reasonable measure.

PeterSibley
01-01-2007, 04:30 AM
The George post was an ad....Margo's was a response and as such completely acceptable .Donn was Donn...what else could we expect ?

Tylerdurden
01-01-2007, 07:32 AM
The original post was an ad, but Margo was just throwing her two cents. Myself I didn't like the Idea of this guy looking for a slave but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Donn is a ass of the highest order, if you confront him with that fact he will put you on ignore. Myself being proud to be included in that exclusive club. I think Margo should just do that. I might disagree with her from time to time but she is an exceptional person and it will be a sad day to see her go over the forums biggest psyco/pussy.

Tylerdurden
01-01-2007, 08:43 AM
Yeah Oyster its a free lunch alright. Seen it to many times to count and somehow always the guy paying with labor always gets screwed.
Its nice tho think of the great deal when you ignore who's holding the strings. Its a rent to own scheme is all it is.

His statement that he won't pay yard labor costs tells everything about the deal. To him labor is of no value no matter the quality.
Labor is to be taken advantage of. Old enough and wise enough to read between the lines.

geeman
01-01-2007, 09:05 AM
I just hope that some of Margo's friends here can convince her to come back.If I knew her better I'd be on the phone now asking her to read the posts wanting her back.Shes an asset to this forum many times over.

Dryer lint
01-01-2007, 09:15 AM
Join the club. There's no such thing as an allowed opinion on this forum. State your opinion in civil and polite terms, and you're blasted with the vulgarity of the dwarves. Snap back in their own language, and you get more of the same. Anything's ok as long as you don't disagree with the losers who think they own this venue.

same thing ive been saying since i rolled into this place several years back. i just used different words

geeman
01-01-2007, 09:17 AM
Say what ya want, but if I was wasnt married and didnt have the responsibilities I have at this point in my life ,I would be up north helping a certain young lady fix her boat,,,,,,

Dryer lint
01-01-2007, 09:20 AM
Say what ya want,,,,,,


FART

JimD
01-01-2007, 09:32 AM
JimD - nice pic. What is it? Where can I get one? I gotta chunk of wall that wants to meet that pic...

Yes, that's quite the sky. Dunno what it is. I ran across it while surfing the boatdesign.net website. You can find it here: http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/all/page/27/limit/all

Dryer lint
01-01-2007, 09:32 AM
if youve ever walked the walk rather than just talk about it- 5 days a week 40+ hours every week for a number of years, you would realize that building a boat aint about giseppe standing at the rail with a firmer chisel , paring down a teak plug. its nasty fookin back breaking work at best and those with real talent and drive get GOOD jobs building fine furniture and the like so they dont have to be crawling in and out of smelly old tubs up and down ladders all day sucking up toxic chemicals and prematurely dying with ruined joints and scarred lungs

the rest are day dreamers that finish their course and move on to the next day dream

cs
01-01-2007, 09:43 AM
Guys just chill. Whether it was an ad or not is now beside the point. Sometimes folks have to just carry on when there is no need to carry on. If you give it a rest it would make life a lot easier.

Chad

Phillip Allen
01-01-2007, 09:45 AM
if youve ever walked the walk rather than just talk about it- 5 days a week 40+ hours every week for a number of years, you would realize that building a boat aint about giseppe standing at the rail with a firmer chisel , paring down a teak plug. its nasty fookin back breaking work at best and those with real talent and drive get GOOD jobs building fine furniture and the like so they dont have to be crawling in and out of smelly old tubs up and down ladders all day sucking up toxic chemicals and prematurely dying with ruined joints and scarred lungs

the rest are day dreamers that finish their course and move on to the next day dream

There is a lot of truth in that post Dryer...for masons too

High C
01-01-2007, 10:08 AM
Join the club. There's no such thing as an allowed opinion on this forum. State your opinion in civil and polite terms, and you're blasted with the vulgarity of the dwarves. Snap back in their own language, and you get more of the same. Anything's ok as long as you don't disagree with the losers who think they own this venue.

It's always about this same little group of individuals. They obviously sit anxiously at their 'puters waiting for the first opportunity, no matter how slight, to go berserk at some feined outrage. Buncha junior high school babies, they are.

What a tiresome act. :rolleyes:

George, your initial post was clearly an innapropriate ad. Your attitude is unrealistic, and your vocabulary as limited as that of the "dwarves" :rolleyes: The foul language is neither appropriate, not appreciated.

Not everyone can afford the luxury of a custom built wooden boat. The fact that you seem to be one of those who cannot is hardly cause for outrage.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-01-2007, 10:28 AM
The notables that claim they are persecuted:

Donn
Oyster
High C
Dryer Lint

;)

michigangeorge
01-01-2007, 10:34 AM
Yo Dryer Lint, since you do not know me or anything about what I have done you gotta big mouth! I've likely walked the walk far longer than you and I do have those ruined joints and scarred lungs. In my next life I will be certain to document everything fully so I can provide you a proper photographic essay.

Phillip Allen
01-01-2007, 10:35 AM
Peter, it isn't a good idea to name names...the intelligent folks can see without your help and those who can't will only resent your help. Remembering at the same time, that the ability to articulate a thought or line of thought varies but hasn't that much to do with the thinking itself...it is a skill not unlike woodworking...most of us can hang a picture and many can cobble together tables and even boats...some can do a superlative job. Depending on what is desired, those "lesser" boats still can sail from point A to point B and please the skipper.

Katherine
01-01-2007, 10:40 AM
Donn is a ass of the highest order, if you confront him with that fact he will put you on ignore. I might disagree with her from time to time but she is an exceptional person and it will be a sad day to see her go.Agreed

michigangeorge
01-01-2007, 10:49 AM
High C, I'll say this one more time- my post was not meant to be an ad in any way and it is too bad a few of you percieved it as such- it was an example- maybe a poor one- but still just an example. Some of us have lived a life different than you nine-to-fivers and it seems some just don't get it. Now, did I tell you about the times I was shot at while re-po ing boats from drug runners in Ft Lauderdale? This was while I was trying (unsuccessfully) to earn a living as a yacht broker
and refinishing BIG wooden spars for grocery money. And then there was the winter I spent on Cape Cod grinding FG fuel tanks out of a Taiwanese trawler in exchange for living aboard while working as head sailboat rigger during the days. And then there was a time-----------------------------------------

Dryer lint
01-01-2007, 11:00 AM
Not everyone can afford the luxury of a custom built wooden boat. The fact that you seem to be one of those who cannot is hardly cause for outrage.

LMAO!:)

Sue H.
01-01-2007, 11:05 AM
High C, do you ever tire of playing Mini-Me?

Margo, don't leave. I think that Oyster was just trying to make a valid point but lacks mastery of writing skills and that Donn was just being his usual pompous empirical self.

Happy New Year, one and all!

Dryer lint
01-01-2007, 11:12 AM
There is a lot of truth in that post Dryer...for masons too


did you notice that the ones that bitch and moan the moast about wal mart and its employment practices, think its just fine if they themselves want to pay hard scrabble wages to skilled craftsmen? ;)

S.V. Airlie
01-01-2007, 11:18 AM
Define " Skilled " please...
I can swing a hammer.. Am I skilled? I can drive a nail in a board without missing. Am I skilled?
I can cook a hard boiled egg or cook a chicken, am I a chef?
I can attach two wires to a plug on a lamp withoput burning the house down. Am I a skilled electrician?
There are lost of people out there in all walks of life who think they are skilled but ain't.
I know of teachers who are certified but can't teach. Are they skilled?
Of course, this depends upon your definition of " skilled ".

Aw, never mind.. this is nuts...

Phillip Allen
01-01-2007, 11:22 AM
did you notice that the ones that bitch and moan the moast about wal mart and its employment practices, think its just fine if they themselves want to pay hard scrabble wages to skilled craftsmen? ;)

Yes...I did and do...there is a disconnect with trying to get a bargin and not wanting to get caught at it...

Phillip Allen
01-01-2007, 11:25 AM
comeon Rich...too many assumptions to help with communication...everyone needs the benefit of doubt at times...even me!

botebum
01-01-2007, 11:29 AM
[QUOTE=S.V. Airlie]
I can swing a hammer.. Am I skilled? I can drive a nail in a board without missing. Am I skilled?
QUOTE]
Compared to me...yes. And I'm in the trades:eek: :D

Doug

Memphis Mike
01-01-2007, 11:31 AM
Hey Oyster. How much were you willing to pay me to come to North Carolina and sand the bottom of that boat you were working on last summer. Do you remember when you offered me that job? You never would quote me a price and I do believe you got pissed off when I asked.

michigangeorge
01-01-2007, 12:12 PM
Gee Rich, does this mean you won't be coming to dinner? I'm so sorry our little home in the woods is not up to your standards. I also agree that much of the value is in the property and some Hummer driving fool might just like to plop down a McMansion on this site but then I guess that would say something about the disireability of the property, eh? I must take offence at what you say about my shop however- it is an all wood structure built on a full foundation with 5" concrete floors and natural gas in-floor heat. It was framed with 4"x6" on 24" centers (so sturdy pipe lumber racks could be installed anywhere) The modified truss roof has a full 12" insulation and the entire interior is finished in pine & poplar. A portable humidifier allows me to maintain precise humidity at any temperature. I designed the building, cleared the land, laid out the foundation, installed the infloor heat runs, hired a framing crew to erect it, built the doors, installed the windows, ran the wiring and plumbing, insulated and finished the interior and painted it so don't call it a tin shack- JERK!

Bob Adams
01-01-2007, 12:26 PM
Jamie, you are right, this IS nuts. I'm gonna go read some boat threads.

Dryer lint
01-01-2007, 12:48 PM
Mike, you are not suppose to be seeking work online and using this forum for a financial venture ;) But I have a slighty used boat for free, that you can rescue and help save the declining wooden boat pedigrees.:p But again , living and working in some of the most beautifull parts of the world, for free is truely an option. I will help you persue your dreams of changing professions into something fun and rewarding. I also have a free living quarters, fully air conditioned, no utilities to pay for, for free rent, organically grown health foods, and one night out to dine on fresh seafood. Please reply off line, of course. :D



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC00795.jpg



ohhhh wow- this would fit joe bald one on the hudsons new life requirements to the t!!!!!:)

Phillip Allen
01-01-2007, 12:58 PM
Oh get off his case...he's got a full plate without you piling on

Memphis Mike
01-01-2007, 01:24 PM
Yeah Oyster. That's what I thought. You couldn't even find me a hotel room and suggested I camp out somewhere while doing some of the dirtiest work in the industry. What a way to treat the help.

I was considering it and you wouldn't even tell me how much it paid as if I was going to make the trip not knowing that.:rolleyes:

Tylerdurden
01-02-2007, 06:52 AM
"Now, did I tell you about the times I was shot at while re-po ing boats from drug runners in Ft Lauderdale?"

That explains it, A friggin' parasite on societys back. Anything for a dollar. I heard there is good money towing from private lots, you should give it a go.

michigangeorge
01-02-2007, 07:21 AM
erster, get a life or change your meds- PLEASE!

michigangeorge
01-02-2007, 09:50 AM
erster, I know I am not going to change your mind about what YOU think I was saying in my posting but I'm tired of dealing with you and others who apparently cannot read one word in front of the other and put them together in such a way as to understand what the author meant by those words. I was never solicting help- I do not even have a project underway at this time! My post was only to start a dialog whereby those of us with up-coming or existing projects might find people, with basic skills and a desire to put them to use, in some venue where we can do so at a price we can afford to pay.
As far as my house EXAMPLE (not an offer); I was only trying to show how a young person, with an entreprenurial attitude, who wanted to go out on his own, might find a way to start other than working (if he can even find employment as he is not yet an experienced professonal) for years, at a job he does not want and will likely never be good at. He will need a shop after all and buying is almost always better than renting if he can do so. I could have said swap for tools (yep, he'll need these too) or a truck and it may have been easier for you to grasp but the intent would still be the same. I guess if I lived in a trailer in the woods in Maine with an old barn out back you might have an easier time of it but I do not. Around here $400,000 is a middle of the road property. I see many young couples buying subdivision homes at an entry-level $250,000 without a shop and the ability to work at home with far less overhead than driving to a rented space. Is it easy? Hell no, it never is when you are starting out. But a young couple with two incomes can do it - we did. It is no insult to pay a man $20hr who does not have many years experience, is not providing tools and shop space, or may not even have other work. We are not making him a slave because that is all we can afford to pay-and he accepts the job- it is what it is! If we could afford it we would hire the pros but we simply cannot so offer only what we can. In my case I am only looking for someone to build a boat WITH me- not FOR me.
As for designers-same thing. If I could afford it I would hire an established pro. If I am to have another boat on what I can afford today, I will not be hiring that pro, but would give a talented beginner a chance. He just needs to get his work out there where we can see it so we know he exists. I wish the college kid across the street was studying yacht design instead of medicine. So how do I find that new guy and give him a chance? Thats all I was after.
As to my rant about the schools- it is my opinion and I have every right to state my concerns- it is what it is!

Tylerdurden
01-02-2007, 04:45 PM
What a tool!

michigangeorge
01-02-2007, 04:51 PM
Guess that trailer part hit close to home, EH?

Tylerdurden
01-02-2007, 05:21 PM
Guess that trailer part hit close to home, EH?

Big slam from the Repo man! Keep counting your money Michigan, Only it will never buy you any class .