creosote on a wooden hull

[steve pilot 35]

Hello, im after some info on the use of creosote on my wooden hull, ive been told that it is realy good for use as a preservative for wood, and the worms wont eat it, I no that it is highly toxic to use, I also understand that bottom paint has no problem holding to it, is this a good thing to use or not. thankyou

[Bob Cleek]

Sure, why do you think they put it on pilings... until that was outlawed by the econazis. As for bottom paint sticking to it... well, I'm not so sure. I'd test it a bit first. Then again, if you are going to put bottom paint on the boat, why bother with creosote?

[Godwin]

Don't do that my friend, you'll kill yourself.

Do you know how to make white leaded tallow?
I don't, any help would be great.

Seeya

[steve pilot 35]

Bob, the reason for the creosote is that it penatrates the timber so as to preserve the mahogany, and the worms wont go near it

[sdowney717]

Interesting quote from this guy
'Creosote has reportedly made some boats uninhabitable.' Because of gassing off or fumes?

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:u0jLhecQMsEJ:trawler.ca/planking.htm+creosote+boat+uninhabitable&hl=en&client=firef ox-a

But if it is just on the bottom maybe ok, maybe not?

I went the polyurethane road www.sanitred.com (http://www.sanitred.com)

Rot Doctor is also coating his hull with worm impervious polyurethane
http://www.rotdoctor.com/L/BoatL/bQA170.html
http://www.rotdoctor.com/poly/polymain.html

[sdowney717]

Interesting discussion on creosote here.
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Creosotetreated_timbers_Cut_with_care.html

I wonder if someone in the future would come along and sand the bottom of the boat and have a reaction to creosote treated planks.

[sdowney717]

Site shows a picture of creosote treated wood eaten by borers

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/your_wsf/corporate_communications/creosote/

[sdowney717]

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/your_wsf/corporate_communications/creosote/creosote4.jpg

[Paul Girouard]

steve I had some railroad ties , which where coated with cresote, along the driveway. I noticed one was soft so I pulled it up , that sucker was full of termites :eek: So cresote might not be the magic bullet,

Sort of a different application but for the trouble the cresote will cause the rewards might not be there.

[Jay Greer]

I have always primed the bottoms of my new boats with creosote prior to applying bottom paint which is first thinned with the stuff. When we use up the last fifty gallons of Interlux 62 I guess we will have to look for other paints.
Terry Wells built "Swift Current" and sailed to New Zealand where the teredoes made fast work of his bottom planks. He re-planked and primed with creosote. Since that time, the boat has had no further problems.

[RonW]

http://www.handforged.net/wbfsearch/

Use this link to search the building and repair section. I brought this up as a disscussion about a year ago. Howard Chappele disscusses creosote and kerosene in his book boatbuilding, but remember this was for old time hard core work boats.
Then there is disscussion on cuprinol or copper napthenate. This seemes to have been quite popular in the 50's and 60's and beyond. The good stuff turns the bilge green. You can paint over it after it dries.
But I also just read on a coast guard site, that since cuprinol has copper in it, it helps conduct a mild electrical current, which are now common due to all the electricity on boats and at boat ramps. Anyhow it helps in destroying your fasteners and the wood around them due to the current it will conduct.So.

You might give more thought to using red lead as primer for preserving. Seems to be no objection to it as long as you don't eat any of it.And it seems as if it may work the best as a preservative.

As for inside the boat there has been some good disscussions on using concrete to fill the pockets that holds water and aid in drainage to the pump. Also suggestions on different putties to fill the voids. But it also seems that a premium preserver for the bilge is plenty of plain old air flow. Bilge fan.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Isn't creosote illegal for underwater use? It is in the Great Lakes...

[Wilson Fitt]

I recall that Larry Pardy recommends coating the bottom of a new boat with creosote before applying the first coat of antifouling paint. There's a reference somewhere in his book about the building of Taliesin but my copy is out on loan right now.

The old fellers around here used to add creosote to antifouling paint to increase its general toxicity. I did the same in the past but the stuff is hard to find nowadays.

[Bob Cleek]

Yes, I know creosote has been used in the past as a deterrent to marine borers. Problem is, it is now illegal to sell just about everywhere. It is seriously poisonous. In SF Bay, you can no longer drive a creosoted pile, unless it is to replace another creosoted pile. No new creosote piles. They don't put it on telephone poles anymore, either.

Creosote will soak through just about any paint you try to put over it. If you don't care what your bottom looks like, that's about as far as anyone would use it.

On the other hand, any decent antifouling paint will give the same protection as creosote, and probably better. If you thin the first coat, it, too, will soak into the wood, just like thinned creosote.

Then again, if you soak your bottom in CPES, then bottom paint, or even better (I'd like to think, but probably not...) CPES, red lead and bottom paint, you will have what so far seems to have proven a worm proof hull. The CPES sinks into the wood far better than creosote or bottom paint and, so the theory goes, the critters dull their teeth on it.

Any way you cut it, there's a lot better options than creosote.

[steve pilot 35]

Bob, what is CPES as you mentioned in you last reply, the sound of this creosote, and how toxic it is scares the hell out of me
steve

[TimothyB]

One thing that some folks recommend for a barrier is Coal tar epoxy. Not only does it give you a basically impermeable barrier to worms, but it is very flexible and will not crack, and is resistant to impact damage which is very nice to know when you are worried about borers. It can be top coated with regular bottom paint, and apparently stands up to abuse extremely well. It is also less expensive than other epoxies.

That being said, I would ONLY use it for a bottom coating, and would wear some good protective gear when applying it to boot. But then, bottom paint is even more dangerous as far as toxicity to humans.

According to what Ive read, you want AMINE cured coal tar epoxy, if you do use it. Period.

[Dave Williams]

Timothy B.

Do you know a source for coal tar epoxy?

[Mike Vogdes]

Try here

http://www.epoxyproducts.com/coaltar.html

[lofting4fun]

Hi, it is used when you are going to copper the bottom,after application of tar or creosote,irish felt is applied and then a application of deisel fuel (which causes the felt to adhere or shrink wrap to hull ) then sheets of copper ...note that on bends and turns the copper is heated up and hammered into place and it is copper nailed.
do not use this on hulls that were iron fastened due to the electrol. problem this would create. hope this helps....James

[Frank E. Price]

Toxicity is relative, but you wouldn't know it reading the MSDS's on various items. Does anyone know where to find relative toxicity, or quantitative toxicity info on things like creosote, red lead, white lead, or even diesel fuel?

Years ago, at least as late as the late 1950's, wooden penstocks for drinking water were treated with creosote, to no discernible ill effect.

One thing that ticks me off is that the feds have so blanketed the market with health warnings, even of innocuous substances, that the warnings tend to get slavishly followed or totally disregarded. The precautions seem to all be aimed at long term heavy exposure with no reasonable precautions for infrequent light exposure.

Frank