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View Full Version : USCG axes Live Fire Exercises



WillW
12-19-2006, 09:42 AM
This just in.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061219.wxlakes19/BNStory/International/home

Phillip Allen
12-19-2006, 09:47 AM
I don't see a problem with live fire...as long is it is handled safely and not constantly

S/V Laura Ellen
12-19-2006, 09:49 AM
That's good news!:)

Dan McCosh
12-19-2006, 10:15 AM
Score one for reason. This may be the first time a general public outcry has reversed the seemingly endless and growing list of mindless actions taken under the guise of so-called homeland security. Now maybe they will take a look at why you need heavy machine guns to patrol the river separating the north and south halves of Port Huron.

WillW
12-19-2006, 11:06 AM
Philip, they were proposing to set up 32 live fire ranges on the Great Lakes. That's totally mind boggling. It doesn't state how much space is required for each range, but it would likely turn most of US side into a no-go zone for boaters. Remember how Reagan was going to reduce "big government". This is an example of bureaucracy gone wild.

Nicholas Scheuer
12-19-2006, 12:07 PM
weapons with which they have no realistic training? What is the equivalent of shooting oneself in the foot with a 50-cal machine gun, or a 20-mm cannon?

The USCG should cite some history of the US Navy under arms. To paraphrase, the USS Constellation put out to sea for the first time with a complement of experienced officers and petty officers, but mostly green farmhands for seamen.

We are told that the Captain practiced gunnery day after day (sounds sorta like one of James Aubrey's books), and at some point a month or so later a French ship hove into view, their first sighting of an enemy. It turned out to be the finest ship in the French Navy.

After a bitter gun battle which lasted something like four hours, the Frenchy had been reduced to a floating wreck, wherepon he surrendered.

After that the French took to calling the Constellation "the Yankee Racehorse".

So the USCG no longer requires training in gunnery, eh? Maybe they have recruits more capable than those farmhands.

Moby Nick

WillW
12-19-2006, 12:16 PM
No that's not the point, how much live fire ranges do you have on the East Coast? West Coast? I could see 1 per lake, but why 32?

Nicholas Scheuer
12-19-2006, 12:41 PM
to arrive at a live fire range where they can pop off some live rounds once in awhile, just to stay sharp?

I'm a pretty good marksman with a rife, but have never had any experience shooting a automatic weapon from a moving platform, against a moving target, possibly on choppy seas. I'm thinking frequent practice is a good thing.

The USCG sure won't get any argument from me about sailing my yawl into a live fire range at the wrong time.

Moby Nick

TomF
12-19-2006, 12:59 PM
I learned to sail in the St. Mary's river, between Lake Superior and Lake Huron. Fair sized river, but I'd expect a 50 calibre bullet would travel a good bit further than half way across.

So long as the USCG runs all its live fire exercizes pointing the guns from the international boundary towards the US side of our shared lakes and rivers, fine.

WillW
12-19-2006, 01:20 PM
"but have never had any experience shooting a automatic weapon from a moving platform, against a moving target, possibly on choppy seas."

-- so if the weapon is so unreliable, why were they chosen?

Phillip Allen
12-19-2006, 01:47 PM
alright...if the USCG can off limit enough water, it would effectively reduce the need to patrol ...in this I agree that in is not okay to take our planet away and reserve it for government.

Bob Smalser
12-19-2006, 02:08 PM
"There will be no weapons-training exercises on the Great Lakes," Coast Guard spokesman Chief Petty Officer Robert Lanier said, although he said some vessels continue to be armed with M240 Bravo machine guns.

Mind boggling.

Having live weapons and no practice is more dangerous to bystanders than not having the weapons.

There are already US and (probably Canadian) military ranges available with impact areas in the lakes that could be used....even from boats. Camp Perry and Great Lakes NTC are just two.

WillW
12-19-2006, 02:37 PM
Just wondering, is the whole thing is a result of the Coast Guard kicking back against the current regime? Not that there's every any inter-agency politics involved, but possibly the CG was pushed into this by Homeland Security, and to make sure it failed they floated a proposal so far-fetched that it was bound to cause a reaction. There's a lot of senators representing Great Lakes states.

GregW
12-19-2006, 03:08 PM
Wow...a government agency actually listening to tax payers, there's hope yet.

Nicholas Scheuer
12-19-2006, 06:38 PM
But if the object is to stop a terrorists' vessel before it does harm, wouldn't a quick burst of fire aimed right where it would do the most good be desireable?

Moby Nick

BrianW
12-20-2006, 01:39 AM
When first brought up (a few months back, and a not in the Bilge) I thought the controversy would blow over, but apparently I was wrong.

The Coast Guard is fairly good at setting up a school in a specific location, and sending it's personnel there to train. The motor life boat school near the Columbia river is an example. Seems they could pick a prime location for this gunnery training, and do most of it in that one spot.

I'd say though, that every station should have at least one location they can get to with their boat and practice once in awhile.