Apply for a credit card -- reverse discrimination & the Patriot Act

[Milo Christensen]

So, I want to buy the five volume hard bound set of all 20 books in Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series. I go to amazon.com and thrash around inside the web site, find what I want at the lowest price, go to check out, get offered an amazon.com credit card instantly!!! -- good for a $30 credit on any amazon.com purchase. Now $30 off of a $99.95 purchase discounted from $175 is worth the hassle of submitting my mother's maiden name (#####) and all the rest of it, figuring I'll take the card, get the card, pay for the books, save $30, cut up the card and re-simplify my life back to the two cards I have, one debit and one credit. Ha! "We're sorry, but we will need to verify additional information!" Ha!

When Marilyn and I got married, I insisted she keep her family name, and since she had all the utility accounts here in Lansing, we just transferred them when we bought the house. Guess what? None of the online credit services believe that I live at the address where I do, in fact, live. Not to mention that the Patriot Act requires that they verify where I live. I wonder how many qualify for the instant part of this deal?

So, how do I get credit if they don't believe that I live where I live and I don't have any utility accounts in my name?
Also, will I be investigated under the Patriot Act if I don't proceed with supplying proof of my address?I swing from being quite pissed off to ROTFLMAO at the idiocy of the whole thing.

[JimD]

...I swing from being quite pissed off to ROTFLMAO at the idiocy of the whole thing.

Maybe a few years in Guantanamo will help clarify your ambivalent feelings. I hear they have a nice library.;)

[Bruce Hooke]

Have you pulled your credit reports recently? If they show your address incorrectly you should work with them to correct that matter. If you don't have any utilities in your name, how about sending them a copy of your marriage license plus the utility bills in your wife's name? A copy of some of the mortgage paperwork might be another option.

[WX]

I have a debit card, if I don't have the money I don't buy it.
I haven't had a credit card for over 20 years, and have no intention of ever owning one....mainly because I don't trust myself with one :D

[Chris Coose]

It is probably prudent and responsible to check my credit rating on occasion.
I guess the idea would be to make sure it is accurate and I could clean it up in anticipation of getting a new mortgage or some other major life inconvience.
This task on the list rates just above..... taking my last breath.

Keep it simple.

[Bruce Hooke]

With the new, free annual credit report system it is relatively painless to order your credit reports:

https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp

It is also worth noting that many employers are now checking credit reports before making hiring decisions, so that is another reason to keep tabs on yours. The time to find out that something is incorrect on your credit report is not 2 days before someone is going to pull it to issue you credit, a job, etc!

[Concordia...41]

A few years back I started checking my credit report from time to time. Now I subscribe to a service that alerts me if anyone runs a credit check or some other parameters I set up. It was interesting at first to see what impacted the score and what didn't. I have one card that I can put a kazillion dollars on and it doesn't show. On the other hand, I can charge $150 on a store charge card that I keep at a zero balance and my score may dip a couple of points. Really funny is the fact that I get an alert telling me my such and such card shows a balance increase of 150%. Well DUH!

FWIW Milo, I've found that applying for store credit - like the Amazon offer - will lower my score by about 5 points. For that reason I don't do it for less than a savings of several hundred dollars.

It's taken almost 20 years of being responsible (who'd of thunk?;)) and another 3+ years of being proactive with my credit report, but I've finally got a good number and I use it as a tool to get better rates, better deals, deeper discounts on car insurance, etc.

I just wish I'd seen the light 10 years earlier.....

[Milo Christensen]

...I just wish I'd seen the light 10 years earlier....
Amen to that wish.

One of the reasons we've done things this way is to maintain Marilyn's credit score and not mix in mine, which is in "recovery". But that's interesting about seeing your score drop a few points. I've seen what happens to my car insurance when my credit score hit rock bottom after my identity theft problem, and it is something we should check more often, if for no other reason than to try to reduce our car insurance.

BTW, I work for a major P&C insurer and have had some interesting conversations about the "perfect" fit between increased risk of a claim and reduced credit score and vice versa. An amazing amount of money was spent looking for statistical correlations between anything publicly available and the risk of a claim. Your credit score is a nearly perfect predictor of an increased risk of a claim. But it's bundled with other predictors like your zip code (and increasingly, your zip+4), miles driven, and car model.

The next question is, should I tell them I've reconsidered and don't want the card? If I don't send the info they want in 30 days they drop the application, but does that show up as being declined or denied? If so, does that affect my recovering credit score?

I'll never apply for another online card again.

[PatCox]

The only part of the Patriot Act implicated here are the "customer identification protocals" that require financial institutions to verify the identity of their customers before lending money.

Its not really about terrorism so much as about preventing identity theft. You should be glad they are doing this, because it prevents other people from applying for the same card in your name.

There is no "investigation" that will be performed if you don't go through with it. Again, the particular provision of the Patriot Act is highly technical, it is administered by the Department of the Treasury, not homeland security, and it requires FIs to adopt "customer identification protocols." That makes their check of the OFAC list somewhat more meaningful, though its really still kinda silly.

Where is there reverse discrimination occurring?

[geeman]

The best idea I've come up with for credit card use is scissors.

[S.V. Airlie]

I kinda agree with the comment about identity theft. Milo. Last year, I ran into the same thing with Eddie Bauer. Bought a jacket on sale. I was in the store however, I used a different credit card, filled out the forms, etc. and yes, I got my card in a couple of weeks. Never used it though. No problems. no hang-ups.
So, the internet, being a good way to steal someone's identity may be the real issue here.

[BrianW]

Credit card = airline miles. Lot's of them. Pay it off each month.

Simple. :)

[S.V. Airlie]

Brian.. I agree on paying any credit card off on time. Drives um nuts in the first place. And secondly. Well, it makes sense.
If ya really want to drive them nuts, pay before the bill comes in. WOW... Now they really hate ya.

But we do have a situation hewre where people have 20-60 thou on their credit cards.... WOW.. nothing like a 30 yr. mortgage.

[Milo Christensen]

...Where is there reverse discrimination occurring?

Perhaps I'm pushing the definition, but I remember when women couldn't get credit in their name because their husband paid all the bills. I'm saying I'm being discriminated against because my wife, under her name, pays all the bills. I pay everything that's in my name online, so I don't even have a bill with my name and address together on it.

[geeman]

Same here Milo.I had to jump thru hoops when I bought my truck because most everything has been in wifes name for years, because it just worked out that way.When I went to do the paperwork for the truck they told me at the dealer that "I didnt exist" LOL. THis was post 9/11. Anyway , got the truck.I refuse to do cards ever again.wont do it.

[S.V. Airlie]

geeman. I do understand.. and yes, I'm afraid I have a few credit cards. None gets over 250.00 usually during a month... I use them carefully which is the key.
Now my trip to NS.. went slightly overboard. Rooms were a bit expensive.. gas was very expensive.. So, ran that up to say a total of 1000.00 for the week. I am glad I had the cards. Then again, I keep records as to what I spent so I am prepared for the bills.
Most people do not look at it that way... A card is, unless it is AMEX) not green as in real money. Hence, there is a problem at the end of the month.
Nope.. cards are dangerous. The only good thing I can say about them is that they convert Canadian Dollars to Us dollars faster than our banks do here in the US.

There should not be a minimum payment required on a credit card.. All or not at all. If not at all, get rid of the card. The companies want to sucker ya in. If you are willing to be so, you gotta live with it. But cut up the cards first.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Very familiar.

Because my wife was not a British citizen when we moved to Britain, we put all the utilities in her name.

Smart move, insofar as she is now a citizen - but when, as a director of a company, I had to sign large cheques, the Bank concerned became highly excited about my "lack of proof of abode" under the UK "money laundering" regulations.

I then made it worse by pulling out a garage bill - according to shocked young lady at Lloyd's Bank, that was about the worst thing I could possibly have done!

The day I start pulling my own credit report will be the day that I admit that I am living in "1984".

[geeman]

Thinking more on this, its probably because I dont trust MYSELF as far as cards go.Money has never really meant much to me,as long as I'm comfortable,I'm a happy guy.Cards make it too easy to buy things you want but dont need.If I cant pay cash for it I probably didnt need it all that bad in the 1st place.It works for me (so far) your milage may vary LOL.SO it comes down to I dont trust ME with cards!!!!!!!!!

[Kim Whitmyre]

Credit (Ha!) Card free for 7 months now. . .:cool:

[Norman Bernstein]

Brian.. I agree on paying any credit card off on time. Drives um nuts in the first place.

Well, not really. Even if you pay the balance in full every month, the credit card company is making anywhere from 1.5% to 3% or more, on each transaction... charged to the merchant.... and this is effectively per month!

Those who don't pay the balance in full are kind of like winning the lottery, for the credit card companies.

Even a late payment, even if you intended to pay in full, triggers both interest charges and a late payment fee. For my card, a late payment fee is $39, and the interest charge on a $1000 balance can be $40-100, depending on interest rate.

[geeman]

THink about all the people happily buying stuff for xmass as we dont speak here,Not thinking about how much their REALLY spending when they whip out that card.Their thinking in terms of the actual amount of the purchase then when the cc bill comes in their stunned! "How could I have spent that much,I only spent X amount"!!!!!!!!

[S.V. Airlie]

You are probably right there Norman.. No you are.. The companies get ya coming and going. And yes, they charge the merchant a certain percentage. AMEX used to be the worst which is why I did not take it.
But, I figure, I'm fairly well covered if I pay my cards off on time. Yup, there are always those little tiny charges but for the most part, I try to keep a balance of "0".

[PatCox]

Not suggesting anything similar, Milo, but husbands with bad credit and wives with good credit is getting to be the norm in some socioeconomic circles. I work in the auto retail industry (thank god not for an auto retailer, though) and we know bad credit in this industry. The typical case is contractor husband who is averse to paying taxes and lives a cash-only life and maybe has prior marriage child support issues, but the wife has perfect credit. And then, of course, the guy whines that its not fair, all he ever did was cheat on his taxes, default on his credit cards, and run up support arrearages, and now noone will loan him money. They're always screwing over the white man in this country, they will say.

[paladin]

Yes Pat...but.......what about a guy that has a debit card, no credit cards, paid cash for his car, made a transfer from savings for the house, pays utility bills by debit card.......and carries a half dozen checks for some things.....goes into a store where he's done business for 10 years, offers a check for payment...and it's refused because he doesn't have a major credit card......is refused to rent a car because he doesn't have a major credit card (they wouldn't take a cash deposit)......but can walk into the local Mercedes dealer and buy a new whatzit on the debit card.......
I offered to pay for something this morning with a $50 bill, and they closed down the register, and ran to the managers office to verify that the bill was real.......after waiting for about 10 minutes I asked for my money back so that I could leave, and got a load of crap from the manager.......Now I was told also this morning If I don't have a local drivers license that I must get a State Issued I.D. for any non cash transactions...

[S.V. Airlie]

Now Chuck, if ya had a cute face like mine, well, you would not have problems writing a check.. Musta been the mug. :)

[PatCox]

Well Paladin, I was told by my father when I was about 20 that if I wanted to be able to get credit I had to build up a good credit history. He told me to open an account, buy something, and pay it off. My dad was no apologist for the industry, just an average working guy who knew thats just the way the world is. Seems to me everyone has two choices, bitch about it and blame someone else, or deal.

The rules are the same for everyone, pretty much. Most people deal.

Having a local DL is kinda mandatory in most states. Unless you are military; but then the military ID should be enough for anyone.

[paladin]

Jamie If I hadda mug like yours I would probably be in the hoosegow...didn't I see your pik in the post office....:D

[S.V. Airlie]

Chuck.. probably. But if nothing else, eveyone who visited the PO would know my mug. Helps on cashing checks. No ID necessary.

[Gonzalo]

The only thing I use a credit card for is renting cars. It is impossible to rent a car without one. When you return the car you can charge it to a debit (or maybe pay with cash or check--I never tried) but when you pick it up you must give them a credit card number, not a debit.

[S.V. Airlie]

Gonz.. although I agree, we have all been through this before on the forum. Faiirly recently in fact. LOL

[paladin]

When I was working and travelling a lot, it was not unusual to have 15-20k in my briefcase or on my person...in half a dozen currencies...credit cards were always a problem in foreign countries...and today you really get burned in currency conversions...
After paying off an ex'es credit cards, and see them run up again for foolishness.....I didn't even want to be around them (cost about $40k total)...and I gave her the house, almost paid for and she borrowed against that and lost it too......kid brother has the same problem, can't control the spending.....as long as he has a credit card, it's gonna get used.....went through this with two of the kids...and I hope it's settled, at least for the time being. The availability of massive credit and peoples lack of control seem to be the large problems with society today, no one is living within their means....

[brad9798]

Back to the original post, I personally don't see the problem with simply verifying your ID and address.

If I was hiring a contractor to do the job, and he/she's address didn't 'show up' re whatever, I certainly would dig a bit deeper.

In the US, one of the main reasons for not having things in one's personal name is to hide something. (not accusing Milo of that at all).

[Katherine]

My sister and BIL have it set up so that all his business stuff is in her name because of some past credit issues he has. They're not trying to hide anything, but business wise it works out better for them if he technically works for her.

[brad9798]

They are ABSOLUTELY trying to hide something- BAD CREDIT.

Mind you, I didn't necessarily say hiding/insulating things is bad/wrong/immoral.

But they are definitely hiding his history ...

[Katherine]

Small town, bank knows the whole story.

[brad9798]

Don't let the bank regulators find out ... :eek:

[Katherine]

They were up front about everything when they took out the business loan, but when the bank crunched teh numbers, it came out better to put it all in her name. He's getting to the point where his past credit problems can be removed from his credit report any way. It's been several years.

[S.V. Airlie]

Hey. ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
Had a good rant with Discovery earlier today. Had the guy laughing his ass off. Ya gotta do. what ya gotta do.

Needless to say, he got a kick out of a pleb's scenerio..Bills, USPS etc.. Loved it. Must have stayed on the line for 10 minutes at least.

[George Roberts]

It is very easy to get the credit reporting agencies to fix details like your address.

---

I used to be adverse to credit cards but ...

I deal with a lumber yard 1000 miles away. I used to always have to send a check. Now they take credit cards, and the process which used to take a week or more now takes 1/2 hour. They absorb the fees as a cost of doing business.

---

My wife now takes credit cards. Not for current acounts, but for long overdue accounts. I think her cost was $25 to set up the processing and 1-2%. So far taking credit cards has been profitable for her.

She is happy to absorb the 1-2% cost.

---

The nice thing about cash is that it is legal tender for all debts public and private. If a merchant refuses your legal currency, you can walk out of the store with the merchandise. (But I would not try it. While you have a legal right to the merchandise the hassle factor can be significant.)

[ccmanuals]

"A man with a credit card is usually in hock to his own self image." - Travis McGee

[paladin]

I had forgotten that one.....:D