my day in the woods

[mrjoel]

howdy guys i have been lurking through this forum for a long time now always learning something new and interesting from your posts. ive posted a few questions but never introduced myself. anyway im 22 my names joel and im rebuilding a 1939 sea bird yawl in my back yard. have been loving the project so far and im learning a ton from it but as always still tons to learn. as for the timber i have been harvesting and milling all of my own from the woods behind the house. i made a simple modification to my chainsaw that lets me slab cut planks from logs and i have been using it to gather all of the white oak that will be going back into her stucture (frames, floors, transom, keel, bowsprit) anyway i though i would finally throw up a few pictures of my own project. this particular WO i dropped this winter so she is still fairly wet and my next project is finding out how to dry it out enough so i can be comfortable using it. or could i use it as is? i have been asking around local kiln dryers with no luck so maybe i will have to rig some kind of temp. kiln. anyway here are some pictures from my day. :)

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/DSC00134.jpg
the tree
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/DSC00145.jpg
my version of the lumber maker that i welded up with scrap alum. at work
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/DSC00146.jpg
it runs along a 2x4 tacked in place for a guide
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/DSC00149.jpg
square off 3 sides and cut planks from there
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/DSC00168.jpg
i use a regular quick cut chain converted into a ripping chain by grinding a 15 degree angle in the cutters
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/DSC00166.jpg
yeha
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/DSC00279.jpg
my new timbers from left to right... small piece to be scarphed in at the aft end of the keel. under it 2 planks for butt blocks maybe. 6/4 plank for frames and transom. 12/4 plank for bowsprit. 6/4 for frames/ transom. and finally 8/4 plank for boomkin.

i harvested another tree similiarly earlier this year successfully and it is already in the boat as that tree had been down for 3 years (that actually used to hold my tree house until the town cut the tree down as it was on town land and that was their only solution to liability issues). it just adds tenfold to the satisfaction of seeing an old boat go back together to see it going together with wood that i harvested from tree to planks! hope you enjoy. would like to hear if anyone has done anything similar and how it worked for them!

[Thad Van Gilder]

That's a excellent idea! I gotta try it!

what size saw is that?

-Thad

[Thorne]

Glad to see you have finally "un-lurked" and started posting!

You may want to search this forum and look for some of Bob Smalser's posts on how to mill wood for hull planks, and how to air-dry it in stacks.

[Ken Hutchins]

Welcome to the forum. Might I suggest you make a visit, I'm on the Candia Deerfield line. I have harvested my own wood for my TALLY HO II project. I would like to see your project someday but my driving is curtailed for medical reasons for a while.
A quick suggestion get some oil based paint on all surfaces of that WO ASAP to curtail checking, mis-mixed paint is cheap.

[mrjoel]

That's a excellent idea! I gotta try it!

what size saw is that?

-Thad

the saw is a husky rancher 55 with an 18 in bar. this tree was the maximum that i could have cut as the bar was buried every inch for most of the cuts!

[mrjoel]

Welcome to the forum. Might I suggest you make a visit, I'm on the Candia Deerfield line. I have harvested my own wood for my TALLY HO II project. I would like to see your project someday but my driving is curtailed for medical reasons for a while.
A quick suggestion get some oil based paint on all surfaces of that WO ASAP to curtail checking, mis-mixed paint is cheap.

thanks mate! that would be great, what luck to come across someone so close. i actually work in candia at charmingfare farm so im out that way all the time!

[Brian Palmer]

Awesome project! The stuff dreams are made of.

Was the original bow sprit made of white oak? I would have thought that spruce or Doug fir would be a better choice for a bow sprit. When I bought our boat, the bow sprit was white oak, badly checked, and heavy. I have since replaced it with one laminated from Eastern spruce.

Any thoughts from others?

-- Brian

[brad9798]

VERY, VERY COOL!

That's how a newbie should make an entrance into this forum!!

Neat stuff!!!

[Noah]

Nice job! I think I was 22 or 23 when I first started posting here as I worked on getting my old Nordic Folkboat in the water. Have fun and good luck.

Noah

[mrjoel]

Awesome project! The stuff dreams are made of.

Was the original bow sprit made of white oak? I would have thought that spruce or Doug fir would be a better choice for a bow sprit. When I bought our boat, the bow sprit was white oak, badly checked, and heavy. I have since replaced it with one laminated from Eastern spruce.

Any thoughts from others?

-- Brian

yea the original was WO a big plank 2" x 14"x 8 feet and was cracked right at the stem. previous owner tryed to fix the problem by laying a sheet of fiberglass matt over the crack. so needless to say i wanted a new one. i guess i cut that plank with bowsprit in mind but im open to trying something else to lighten it up a bit but keep some strength.

[Ken Hutchins]

Joel, check email.
Ken

[dmede]

Very cool project.

Here's a link to one of Bob Smalsers articles on stacking and air drying:
http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=499

[emichaels]

Hey Joel,
Cool rig on the chainsaw. You asked if anyone else was doing what you were up to. I am starting the process of building a 30 cutter. I also harvested a couple thousand bd-ft of WO. Most of which I traded at Gannon/Benjamine for my Wana planking stock. I got my backbone timbers at a sawmill in MA because they were to good to pass up. I will be harvesting some more WO for all the frames and beams and other odds and ends.

Post some pics of your boat project.

Eric

[uncas]

mrjoel.. Good intro.. I agree with a previous post.. I seriously hope ya find tiome to catch up with Ken.... Not only is he a great guy but he has learned more than I will ever know.. and knows what to avoid....
Good luck.. You are one of the few tackling something like this from scratch.... There are a few here but not many....
Cheers and welcome.

[Concordia...41]

Great job!

But this picture makes me wonder if you've got a brother that lives in Cold Spring on Hudson :D ;)

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/DSC00166.jpg

Seriously, welcome. One of the great things about this forum is the constant exchange of good ideas & I bet there are several folks out there thinking about modifying their chain saws. :)

- M

[mrjoel]

haha only one brother be he looks nothing like me... thanks for the welcome everyone here are a few pictures of the boat that a few people asked for...
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/S4021197.jpg
the wanderer and i!
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/S4021434.jpg
her home for the winter
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/digi049.jpg
dry fit for the new scarphed in section to her keel
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/digi048.jpg
the scarph
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/DSC00112.jpg
new frames and floor timbers
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/DSC00113.jpg
new frames throughly bedded in tar with a coat of linseed oil waiting for some lead paint when finished.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/digi051.jpg
original 1939 grown oak breast hook that is seriously chipped away but i cant figure from what. it isnt rotten in the least it looks like it was cut away with an adze?!?
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/S4021529.jpg
another view..trying to decide if i should replace? or leave as is..i would use another piece of grown oak i think if i were to do it...for traditional sake:)

[Mrleft8]

Welcome!
Just curious why you're looking for information on kiln drying your W/O.... You don't want KD at all....

[mrjoel]

mrleft8 could you explain why i wouldnt want to KD? im hoping to use this wood fairly soon, do i need to air dry it is that what your refrencing too or is it OK as is?

[Tom W.]

Joel:
How did you modify the chain cutters for ripping? You say you filed a 15 deg angle on the cutters, could you expand on that, maybe a close up photo? I have wanted to cut some of my timber here on my land, but haven't mastered the trick of making a ripping chain.
Great project, looks like it will keep you busy.

[Mrleft8]

Well... Generally KD lumber is first air dried to around 20%MC before being loaded into a kiln to bring it down to between 4-8%MC (depending on species and location).
For boat lumber you generally want your lumber to be around 16-24%MC (around here anyway Out in the PNW it might be higher...) Don't forget that once you splash your boat, it's going to stay fairly damp. If you start out with exceptionally dry stock, it'll blow out your seams at best, or crack your frames at worst. Kiln drying lumber, especially WO tends to collapse the cells making it more brittle. Brittle is bad on boats.
I'd use your lumber straight off the stump at this time of year. It's probably in the 30-35%MC range now, by the time you're done it will all be at EMC anyway! ;) (You DO know not to use any sapwood in your boat....Right?)

[coelacanth2]

Nice rig. I have a similar one, but store bought'en. One of my "get a roundtuit" projects was to slab up some locust I had cut this summer-20 to25 ft. long, 2' dia and pretty straight - unusual for locust. One log had a nice, slight curve that I thought might do for a keel at some point. Next to those was a 3' dia. cherry burl I had plans togive to a friend who has a lathe that could swing it(!) . The town cleaned up a mess on someone else's property nearby, and decided I needed some help-my logs and burl are gone.
Good luck with yours.

[Bob Smalser]

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/digi048.jpg

Where does that knot go from the face we can see in the pic?

[Mrleft8]

I was thinking that that was an unfortunate place for a knot too.....

[Brian Palmer]

If that is the aft end of the keel, should that scarf be moved forward a bit so it is not at a point of concentrated loading if the aft end of the keel grounds out?

-- Brian

[S.V. Airlie]

Brian. Now I am just guessing. I sense what has been replaced followed the original piece in design and location. Interesting point but if this is the case, it was a problem right from the gitgo. I'd be more concerned with the knot that is shown. Gotta go back to the knot section. ( aticle ) in the magazine.

[mrjoel]

tom, its actually really simple. its not exactly a ripping chain as you might buy from a company such as oregon chains or something similar but it has the same concept and it gets the job done. well enough that i can cut through that white oak about 6 feet in 5 min. or so. anyway here are a few pictures to give you an idea.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/DSC00302.jpg
modified 15 degree chain on the left and regular 30 degree cross cut chain on the right.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/DSC00306-1.jpg
heres a visual on the angles

hope that helps!



Joel:
How did you modify the chain cutters for ripping? You say you filed a 15 deg angle on the cutters, could you expand on that, maybe a close up photo? I have wanted to cut some of my timber here on my land, but haven't mastered the trick of making a ripping chain.
Great project, looks like it will keep you busy.

[mrjoel]

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/mrjoelsef/digi048.jpg

Where does that knot go from the face we can see in the pic?

bob, it carries right through to the top of the beam. this knot also worried me and as this is just dry fit right now i was thinking of using this piece as a practice for the rabbit that i have to cut in it (as i have never cut a rabbit before) and re-cut another piece out of the timber that i just harvested as i have plenty for what i need. (this was also sort of a practice piece for the scarph as i have never cut one of them before either) i was happy with the result though..would anyone have done it differently?

[Bob Smalser]

... i was thinking of using this piece as a practice

Good idea.

Look closely at how the grain swirls around that knot and where the wood is weakest under load because of it, and you can see that knot's a showstopper.

[Tom W.]

Knot aside, would this not be a good spot for a stopwater?

[Bob Smalser]

... would this not be a good spot for a stopwater?

Yes.

[earling2]

Cool project, nice chainsaw rig . . . you must have a sizeable thickness planer, I would guess.
About that breasthook ... That's a pretty cool piece of rough-and-ready old timey boatbuilding, from the looks of it. As long as it doesn't have to be flush with the sheer planks, why mess with it (assuming no rot)?
Where does that stainless looking bolt go? Right through the rotten-looking stem?

[earling2]

Hard to make out in that picture, but it does look like somebody took some licks at that stem AFTER it was installed, since it looks like there are some divots taken out of the right sheer plank edge. All you can imagine is that there was some clearance problems with the decking, so somebody grabbed the adze . . . Also looks like the stem goes way further aft on the right side than the left. And then there's that little secondary breasthook maybe 8 inches below the first one . . .
But now I can see that stainless bolt goes in at an agle -- which makes the question of where does it go even more interesting.
Any info on the boat's origins?

[earling2]

breasthook, not stem, r.e. first sentence, last post