Question: Shop Lighting

[Beowolf]

Now that I'm set to run the radial arm saw, table saw, and jointer on 220V. My next question is a matter of shop lighting...

The shop is a 30 x 40 pole barn with an upper level that covers about 3/4's of the ground floor. The truck (or possible a large floating project) will occupy the space that is open to the rafters. Thus the actual shop space has an 8 foot ceiling. Tentatively I'm planning on 4 foot flourescent tubes even distributed about the ceiling and providing about 1 watt/sq ft, supplemented by task lighting near the stationary tools and natural light from windows where the workbenches are.

Just curious to hear what you all have seen/heard of/used that has worked/failed miserably in the past and what's your recomendations. Please keep in mind that this is being done on a modest budget.

Thanks

Jeff

[capt jake]

Well, Jeff, I have a series of the 4' double flourecent shop lights. They work 'ok' but lack in some ways. The lighting isn't 'natural' enough for my liking, but sufficient for most tasks. In the main bay, the ceilings are at 14' so lighting at gound level is often interupted. I just finished spraying the topsides of the boat I am working an and was wishing for better lighting during the whole project.

A lot of sprya booths have fluorecent lighting inset into the walls to illuminate the side of cars, etc. That is one thing I will be doing before I paint another boat in the shop.

I tend to migrate to the South side of the shop. The side with the only window. ;) Lighting is much better there, even on overcast days; which are often here. ;)

[Woxbox]

Is the shop heated? If not, the flourescent bulbs won't work too well when they get cold. I like those standard outdoor fixtures that take a pair of 120 or 150 watt floodlights. You can aim them any which way, and they're cheap to install.

[Beowolf]

The shop will be heated (Thats a future thread) to maintain a comfortab;e working temp (probably around 55 degrees F)

The flourescents would only be for general lighting. The task lighting would be the clamp on 75 or 100 watt incandescent fixtures.

[Paul Girouard]

I've got 8' floresents in my shop , dual tube , two rows of 4 fixtures in line. I used some new "Daylight bulbs " the last time . I like the amount of light and the "color" is better ,IMO , than cool white .

When the shops cold or the fixtures are they do humm for a bit and arn't as bright , but as they warm up , all becomes good.

My shops 30' x 40' with 10'4" ceiling. Your low ceiling might be a hinderance / problem with hitting the bulbs with stock when your working , a couple of exploded bulbs ought teach, the teach ,a lesson or two about the business;)

I do use Halogen work light for detail sanding, sometimes at the chop saw , keeps ya warm and is bright;)

[capt jake]

THey now make flourecents that work down to 10 degrees F. They are only a few dollars more than the standard version. I stumbled upon them and they work outstanding!

Jeff, don't forget some sort of an exhaust fan. A gable end louvered fan set in the wall would be a good choice, IMHO. (just bought one)

A ceiling fan or two are also nice, to circulate heat and /or offer cooling in the summer. (put one in last year)


My shops 30' x 40' with 10'4" ceiling. Your low ceiling might be a hinderance / problem with hitting the bulbs with stock when your working , a couple of exploded bulbs ought teach, the teach ,a lesson or two about the business

There are clear plastic sleeves to go over the bulbs. If they are hit, the glass doesn't go everywhere.

[Paul Girouard]

There are clear plastic sleeves to go over the bulbs. If they are hit, the glass doesn't go everywhere.

Oh you firemen are so safety oriented:rolleyes: :D I never busted one in my shop but with 8' ceiling like Jeff's got , I'd think the chances would go up of a light strike !

[capt jake]

Oh you firemen are so safety oriented

Uh, that one is from personal experience.;) It's the others that keep me in a job. ;)

[Beowolf]

a couple of exploded bulbs ought teach, the teach ,a lesson or two about the business;)


Ahh man, Paul. I miss talking to you as much as we used to when the home was being built. (Reminds me, I've got some choice words to post in that "contractors" thread in the bilge)

The 8 foot ceiling was a neccesary evil in order to get a usable amount of upper level space and still remain in compliance with building codes regarding accessory buildings in my township. My original plan called for 10 foot ceilings in the lower level. As it is, I suspect that most sheet good handling will take place in the area that is open to the rafters. Actually, I think that my rapidly deteriorating lower back is going to demand that I build a couple of sheet material handling carts sometime real soon.

And yeah, there will probably be some splody lights before all is said and done. :eek:

As for the 10 degree lights, most of the bulbs that I see advertised at the big box stores are that type. I'll definitely look into the daylight bulbs as well.

Thanks

Jeff

[willmarsh3]

Now that compact flourescent bulbs are available and cheap that might be worth considering. They are about as energy efficient as the flourescent tubes. They can be easily arranged for task lighting as well as general illumination. They start out dim but brighten considerably after a minute or so as they warm up. Also some put out the warm light similar to an incandescent light bulb. Finally, tube lights or their ballasts sometimes start to buzz annoyingly. Not these.

Will.

[Paul Girouard]

#1:Ahh man, Paul. I miss talking to you as much as we used to when the home was being built. (Reminds me, I've got some choice words to post in that "contractors" thread in the bilge)

#2:The 8 foot ceiling was a neccesary evil in order to get a usable amount of upper level space and still remain in compliance with building codes regarding accessory buildings in my township.
And yeah, there will probably be some splody lights before all is said and done. :eek:

Jeff

# 1: Ya that was fun , EH! But those photo posts are a PITA to put together.

Be nice to contractors , well if ya can:D

#2: Another PITA , CODES!:mad: And building inspectors "interpations " of same :( :D

Well not so bad, some days :rolleyes:

So here a BI joke . saying .

Never argue with a BI , it's like wrestling with a pig , you'll both get dirty , but the pig likes it:rolleyes: :D

[Paul Girouard]

Finally, tube lights or their ballasts sometimes start to buzz annoyingly. Not these.

Will.

Once the tablesaw / router /power plane / RO sander/ etc comes on ya never hear the buzzing :D In fact what buzzing :D ???

[htom]

You want a 4' strip on either side of the radial arm saw, placed over and parallel to the fence. Get all of the fixtures with reflectors. Usually it works better to have more fixtures towards the corners than in the center. Thirty feet wide, umm, four rows, spaced six feet apart, three feet from the walls. Switch each row seperately so that you can light the (say) west side, center, or east side, depending on where you're working, and switching so you can light either those on the north or on the south. As well, a pair of (say) 100W mounted top center, as entry/work/exit lights, switched at each door, used to walk around the shop turning the other lights on and off. (A pair so when one goes you have light from the other to change it.)

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Now that compact flourescent bulbs are available and cheap that might be worth considering. They are about as energy efficient as the flourescent tubes. They can be easily arranged for task lighting as well as general illumination. They start out dim but brighten considerably after a minute or so as they warm up. Also some put out the warm light similar to an incandescent light bulb. Finally, tube lights or their ballasts sometimes start to buzz annoyingly. Not these.

Will.

Never - Never ever - light a rotating tool with only fluorescent(s).

I once mistook a running drill press for a stationary one.

[Ron Williamson]

We bought a box of "Energy -saving" flourescent bulbs that were bad in cool weather(really bad in cold).Sylvania Super Saver,maybe.
They were dim at all temps and would flicker forever in the winter.
To get any kind of performance, we paired them up with regular "inefficient" tubes.
BTW PI,I've never seen that strobe effect,despite several years of flourescent-only lighting.
I would guess that drill presses,lathes and other low speed tools would be the worst.
R

[Tylerdurden]

As I have 220 also and and in the same predicament I have been scouting commercial remodel sites looking for discarded low bay fixtures. To expensive to buy new they can be had for free if you catch them in the dumpster. Look out for ones set up for 277 but sometimes the transformers are multi tap and they can be switched.
A couple of metal halides with a sodium buld will give awesome light and close to natural.

Yes I am a cheap bastard but everything I scrounge saves money for the boat.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

....
BTW PI,I've never seen that strobe effect,despite several years of flourescent-only lighting.
I would guess that drill presses,lathes and other low speed tools would be the worst.
R

Reasonable points - and to be fair the only time I saw the effect was thirty years ago, it is possible that modern coatings do not suffer from the problem, or that at 60Hz (we have 50Hz) the bulbs do not suffer from it.
It is also unlikely to be a major issue in a one-man shop.

[Benchdog]

I have 8' dual tube flourescents placed in rows, probably around 8' on center. They work well.
At my work bench I have some additional track lighting with 75watt spots in them.
My flourescents have no problem lighting up in the cold. I don't believe they are any special type and I've had them installed for over 6 years.
They do seem to hum alot so my radio is an absolute necessity to avoid insanity.

[Bill Perkins]

Jeff; I think painting your 8 foot ceiling "ceiling" white would brighten things up and be cost effective . The ply deck and the ceiling joists would then form large reflectors for the flo lights , better than metal reflectors I think ,as well as reflecting the daylighting back down . I've done this in my own basement shop .

[capt jake]

Jeff; I think painting your 8 foot ceiling "ceiling" white would brighten things up and be cost effective . The ply deck and the ceiling joists would then form large reflectors for the flo lights , better than metal reflectors I think ,as well as reflecting the daylighting back down . I've done this in my own basement shop .

Painting walls white also helps. Floor paint will also improve lighting (a gray works well); I have a problem keeping the floor clean though. ;)

[erster]

In lieu of sheetrock and all that paint stuff, I used white tile board, slick and smoothe finish for both reflection and for the ease of cleaning when some occasional dust is created. I used portable quartz lights onj tall stands and I worked like that for three years until this summer. I installed eight foot flourescents in an area of 18 x 32, four double bulbed units. The ceiling is 12 feet high with exposed joiced and rafters for hanging. So only the sides reflect. I think I have had a major eye transplant this year with the renewed vision

[htom]

Never - Never ever - light a rotating tool with only fluorescent(s).

I once mistook a running drill press for a stationary one.

Quoted for the saving of fingers. You should have some incandecents in each string of fluorescents.

Years ago, too, I admit; it was a lathe.

[Garrett Lowell]

I strongly recommend full-spectrum flourescents. Expensive, to be sure, but I feel my eyes are worth it.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

You can't put a chuck-key in when the chuck is spinning.

[htom]

And the chisel neatly flipped up and stuck in the ceiling.

[Dave B]

When I built my shop I put 3 regular incandecent bulbs in a row between my 4' fluorescent fixtures. They're on separate switches and my intent was to just turn on the 3 regular bulbs if I just went into the shop to do something quick (grab a tool, etc.). What I've found instead is that I turn them both on all the time because the 2 types of lights give much better color and light distribution.

I also used lighted switches (the toggle glows when the lights are turned off). They were a little more expensive, but I'm very glad I did it. There's absolutely no fumbling around in the dark for the switch.

My distribution of the fixtures wasn't at all scientific, but it seems to work well. You can get an idea what they look like by going to photo #11 at www.tinyurl.com/jceys (http://www.tinyurl.com/jceys).

[outofthenorm]

Dave B - I am soooooo jealous of your shop I could spit. The white walls etc make a great environment. Great photos and very nice work so far on your Bartender.

- Norm

[Lew Barrett]

Nice shop. Looks like it will be a pleasure and easy to keep picked up. Among the small and large things to notice, I see you have a Zyliss vice. I got a complete one from a used tool dealer in town and have found it really useful and handy. Like yours?
Lew

[Dave B]

I appreciate the shop comments. It's definitely my place to escape to and relax.
The vice is one that I bought many years ago at the state fair. The one and only time I've bought anything at the fair from one of the many vendors, but it has worked out as advertised. I use it all the time.