The Official Dove Thread 'CSOH JOE's 'new boat

[Nora Lee]

Joe , I think you need to get a new thread going so that everything will be documented on one location, I am getting tired of hopping around to see what's up!

This is the official LAUNCH of the "DOVE THREAD" , it will have to do until you launch her again...and you better not launch her without a proper ceremony with all who love her in attendance, we will boogie north again for that!!!

Later!

otta go to church and pray for Norm!

Nora

[ 02-20-2005, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: Nora Lee ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Thanks Nora, I go to bed with DOVE in my dreams and wake with desire to start work. I awoke this morning thinking hmmmm I wonder if I call your friend and ask him If I can come by this morning and just pick up the spars and rigging to start on them would that be OK? Those bronze turnbuckles make me drool. I can't wait to gently removing all the hardware from the spars cleaning each piece. Then taking off the old finnish and sanding the sitika spruce spars then re -varnishing, and putting all the sparkly clean hardware back on. That should get me pass the wait until I can get the hull into my barn, Ya think ? :D

**** Technical section of the post ****

Regarding bronze hardware like turnbuckles. Is there a bronze cleaning product that you can simply dip them in and removes the oxidation. I remember some product advertised on TV when I was a kid that all you did was dip and you pulled out bright and shinny bronze.

Before you all school me on the natural patina and protection of bronze. I am fully aware of it all and I also know I will not be able to maintain it but I want to bring this boat back in all its original glory and more important I want any new patina to be MINE. So any liquid bronze cleaner would be wonderful since the turnbuckles have too many nooks and threads to get in with compound.

[Karl A. Hilbert]

Tarn-X The commercial was like a magic trick. I don't know about its compatability with bronze; acidified thiourea. Still avaiable here?-
Tarn-X (http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/61550/icn/20-955096/jelmar/tx6.htm)

[Neville Striker]

My mother was a real do it your self type and used to mix up her own cleaner for her copper bottomed kettles. She used laundry detergent, salt, vinegar, and flour. Sorry I do not remember the proportions, but maybe a small experiment will show you the amounts to use. Good luck. It sounds like a fun project.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

OK so no one was home at Dove's current residence when I stopped by this afternoon ;) I did take a longfull peek at her though. I did get a little scared when I looked into her bow from the cockpit. I could see daylight coming through her seams :eek: Am I going to be able to make her water tight again???

Part of my reason for for looking at her deck covered bow was I have this wacky idea of a removable cuddy cabin. What do you guys think of that.

[holzbt]

Those open seams will make up again. DO NOT even think about packing them full of whatever your favorite miracle goop is while the boat is in this dried out state. If the old seam compound is dried out (likely) carefully reef it out of the seams. The cotton will most likely want to come out with the putty. Clean the boat thoroughly (soap & water) and then rehydrate it. Dave Carnell likes to paint anti-freeze on the wood (this works pretty well). This will even work through paint if it isn't too thick. If you have pets to worry about just use water. Burlap or old blankets placed against the planking will help hold the moisture or you could just use a soaker hose. Do not let the boat fill up as the weight can cause some serious problems if it gets too deep. A few inches is okay but not more. The old fashioned way is to just dump her in and let her swell, preferably not where she'll get sand and gunk in her seams. After she has swelled then you can caulk and pay the seams without worrying about over caulking. Someone with a bit of experience can caulk dry seams but it is too easy to cause real damage if you mess up. Over caulking can ruin the boat, under caulking just causes leaks. Probably the easiest way would be to just donate the boat to someone who has a place to put her in to soak. :D

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

This is incomplete until we see some pics Joe.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

holzbt & MIke I hear ya loud and clear.
She will be soaked proper before she is payed.

[ 02-20-2005, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[boatlover]

Originally posted by holzbt:
..... Probably the easiest way would be to just donate the boat to someone who has a place to put her in to soak. :D Sounds just like the perfect exc .. er, reason for Joe to add a wading/reflecting pool to his landscaping !

(Or borrow/rent the use of your clubs outdoor pool. Not many people using it at this time of year. Of course, one might need to put in a bubbler so the boat doesn't get frozen in.)

Regards,

Ed R

[Leon m]

Put her up on a couple of saw horses (upsidedown) and stick a garden sprinkler under her for a few hours, then set the sprinkler on top of her (cover her with heavy blankets if you have to pay for your water).It will give her a nice bath at the same time.

As far as the bronze polish "Flitz" and a polishing wheel ( on a bench grinder, or drill),a little grit helps (buffing compound or comet).Plus lots and lots of elbow grease.The dip in water stuff is for silver tarnish, I don't think it works on bronze.

That said...I love a good bronze patena !
Shiny bronze, shminy bronze. tongue.gif

[ 02-21-2005, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Leon m ]

[Keith Wilson]

OK, shiny bronze, I can understand that. In fresh water it won't turn green when you get tired of polishing, rather a pleasant dark brown. I don't know of any magic chemicals, but the best thing I've ever found is a Scotchbrite wheel on a bench grinder - very fast, leaves a nice polish, and doesn't take off a significant amount of material. The only disadvantage is that it's not possible to get to all the internal surfaces. Walnut-shell blasting (NOT sand) isn't bad, but you probably have a bench grinder and not a blast cabinet.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Just got off the phone with the current owners of DOVE. We scheduled this Sunday to finalize the adoption proceedings ;) I have some friends classic cars to get out of the barn before I can move her in to work on. But I think I will bring back the spars and rigging to start on something and British seagull motor. I also must remember to check the lugs on the wheels on the trailer to see if they are 4 or 5 lugs. To match with the spare tires I have. This trailer looks like it was also built in 1945 I hope she can make it the few miles of back roads to my barn. I also need to check the ball on my jeep to make sure it fits as well. Lots of lists to start - getting excited :D

Extra goodies included in the adoption are the British seagull motor, ORIGINAL plans, as well as an article on the boat in MOtor BOat magazine. Photos to follow this Sunday smile.gif

[ 02-25-2005, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

The adoption is complete. I had a wonderful time meeting the previous caretakers of Dove. We shared some coffee and a nice bunt cake and talked about Dove's past and future sailing glories. We shook hands and I was entrusted with some wonderful line drawings and offsets of Dove. I was also given a cool looking British seagull motor, a remarkably well preserved cover for when she is on her mooring with all the snaps in good condition., A nice article written by William Atkin himself, regarding the boat. I drove away knowing that with in a week or so the scary and exciting part of restoring her would begin.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p1e577a69e0c063029f985c851762121b/f4fd3d07.jpg

You guys were warned when we took the photo that it would be on the forum ASAP ;)

The Seagull motor. In my barn.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p2ab383c201d1c427d29a074f4a4dfdb8/f4fd3d28.jpg

[ 02-28-2005, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I scanned this beautiful drawing of the sail-plan. I had to scan it it sections because it is 20" x 24". So sorry for the choppy look of the image.

I'm off to get all the plans copied so I can use the copies to work from and the originals I will have framed and put in my office at home. I Love these hand done drawings. There are 3 sets of drawings and one set of offsets. The are all aged with a beautiful golden patina. I will archival mount and matt them in a nice frame.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p960683d1dfc1e459244a2164bbfe87ad/f4fab40a.jpg

click on the link below then click on the original image to see a detailed look at the drawing

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2130669278&idx=22

[ 02-28-2005, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

This is the first page of the original article published in
MoTor BoatinG ( that's the way it was capitalized )

I love the cost to build $500 ;) :D I will spend more on sandpaper :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p822d5346207bd91bdd497ff47ac053e1/f4faaa97.jpg

[Leon m]

Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
The are all aged with a beautiful golden patina. I will archival mount and matt them in a nice frame.

[/URL]It may be a good Idea to have a set of copies made on "Acid free paper".I like the golden patina too,but it may indicate that they are printed on acid paper and once exposed to light,
could fade quickly.It may be a good idea to have an archival set on acid free paper as a backup to
the originals or vice versa.Something to discuss with the framer anyway.

Your new project looks exciting,can't wate to
watch you breath new life back into her.

Thanks for sharing !

[John Bell]

"Blue" prints fade on exposure to light, at least in my experience. I'd only frame copies.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Yea I was wondering that too. I will talk to the Blue Print Shop on my way into town.

So I went down to the barn to start my resolution to start working out a bit. I have a Universal Gym in there gathering dust. But it was hard not to work on a little cleaning up of the the Old Seagull motor. So I cam e up with a novel way of working out. Between sets I would clean a little then go back do another set and clean. I figure this way I can work on the boat and get in shape at the same time. Kinda cool Hmmm :D

Anyway this is the work-out the motor got so far smile.gif

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/pee5f431ec2d59adcb8915de0877822df/f4fa71e7.jpg

This is a close up of the serial number FPL 1974FF5.JPG
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p4ed3d69e21aa1352e4a91d58289bca2a/f4fa7220.jpg

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

OK dropped the blue prints off at the local blue print place. I am having them make Velum copies on acid free velum paper. I can even use the velums to print new blue prints should I ever want to. I also like the look of the translucent velum paper. I think they will make a nice framed set.

[Stiletto]

Joe, seeing that you have a seagull, perhaps between working out and cleaning it you could make a nice pair of oars. :D
Good luck with the project.

[ 02-28-2005, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Stiletto ]

[uncas]

Joe...if your present seagull doesn't work/run...there is a guy in Easton that has several ( several types/horsepower ). If I can't get mine going for the dinghy...I am gonna visit him real soon..If you want me to check...can do... Looks as though this is approx. a 5 hp.?
jamj

[Nora Lee]

Congratulations Joe,

I feel like a 'grandma' to Dove!!! ;) At least maybe the adoption agency!

Great picture of you, Alan & Pierre!

May she see the waters of the Hudson soon! but remember I want to be there for the relaunch!!!

FYI: the dove on the bow was painted by an artist friend Gail Adams, she is the one that did the wonderful bird paintings in Alan's house. She also painted doves on the bow of the Hudson Valley Clearwater Sloop "Woody Guthrie" launched in Kingston, NY in 1979 (we were there for the launch)

Smooth Sailing with the whole project!

Nora

[ 03-01-2005, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: Nora Lee ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

OK I'm going a little stir crazy stuck in this snow bound house. I'm going to go down to DOVE and check the size of my spare trailer wheels and the ball of my jeep to see if the hitch fits.

Im also going to see if I can get the spars to start finishing them and polishing the bronze bits smile.gif

Photos to follow :D

[ 03-02-2005, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Ok so I froze my butt off driving over there in the Jeep. But I came away with something to work on till the snow is gone and we can get in there and get the whole boat out.

I got all the spars loaded up on the roof of the jeep.

Drove real slow coming home ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/pe046fde9a9932f5dbd6d0ac5a99842ea/f4f44a71.jpg

I also took this beautiful tiller which sold me on the boat in the first place. WOW is that not one beautiful carved tiller?

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p6c5e4d3d1615a8ac60d2543d2436b651/f4f44a93.jpg

Just look at the detail

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p196fee5d78c7e1b09567c147e9f2421b/f4f44ab2.jpg

[ 03-02-2005, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Back in from the barn spent the day sanding that beautiful tiller and getting the first coat of varnish on.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p3cb268a2ab8746d02978fd8370569fc9/f4f3da62.jpg

Varnish looks nice there are wonderful bits of brass I polished.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p06f24cfded9e2b6e8ee7ea397b31b030/f4f3a5e7.jpg

Look at this scroll detail now.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/pe23029c70434bef08049d010105cdb89/f4f3a597.jpg

I took all the hardware off the mizzen mast labeled each piece, Tomorrow I take all the hardware off the main and the booms then start sanding the spars :D :D :D

Some beautiful bronze hardware on those spars including bronze or brass sail track.

[Nora Lee]

No moss gathers under you, does it? Gee, I wish you and your energy level were here in NC, we could cut a deal with "Sea Fever" Sigh!

Looks great!

Certainly don't miss the snow! The only way I do frozen precipittion is in my drinks! ;)

Nora!

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Started polishing all the bronze bits

NICE STUFF :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/pd0f349b706740df400d36d40392a2529/f4f22338.jpg

[Leon m]

That tiller is unreal...its like sculpture !
So what did you use to polish the bronze ?

[ 03-03-2005, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Leon m ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Leon I found TarnX at the local Walmart the stuff sux :( I'm just using a good ol wire brush and a buffing wheel hard work but just look at the results smile.gif

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

As promised Nora I got Tess involved in the restoration. Ahh just think Father & Daughter wooden boat restorers

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/p761f2ef8b062724ba5c8bfed42cc536b/f4f1e248.jpg

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

As recommended by one formite I have gone out and purchased a set of brass brushes and wheels to avoid damaging the delicate brass & Bronze fittings with microscopic metal filings that will eventually rust the fittings. It is through this wonderful forum such knowledge is passed on from the experienced to the less experienced. I'm grateful to have such a place to learn. I continue to look forward to additional expert advice as I take on this restoration.

Thank You ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/pbf7600e01fddcf526bd84b378b9708f8/f4ee286f.jpg

[RonW]

This is a example of the bilge spilling over into the building forum. Reguardless of who is right or wrong. Save it.

Joe- there is a product called -Back To Nature- a paint stripper that is harmless and does work, I have stripped epoxy paint with it. It cost $50. a gallon and a gallon does about 50 square feet. Not cheap but it definetly does work.Miller bros. paint stores carry it, and it is available on the internet.

Wooden boat- In my opinion the so called bilge has done grave damage to your board, as is seen here. I think if you want to keep a lot of your customers, it is time to delete the -misc. non boat forum- completely with all threads.
Get back to your business of wooden boats and not politics, religion, sex which is ruining your main event............

[RonW]

Elco - I am in 100% total agreement with you and the post you have the link to. Could not agree more. We do not want the bilge spilling over into the building and design forum, or at least I don't. With almost 10,000 members, something for wooden boat to be very proud of. Why has soo many fled not to return. Personal attacks, which would not happen if everyone was face to face, because someone would be knocked on their ass. But hey it is the internet.

I just checked the mail, am anxiously waiting for my new book that I just ordered from wooden boat, -wood through water- I think the picture of the boat on the cover, with the yellow pine decking and chocolate brown railing is prettier then any dog I ever owned, even my foxhound.
My point is - wooden boat is not doing themselves any good by allowing the bilge to continue, and now attitudes are spilling over to other parts of the board. As a self employed individual, they may see a loss of business due to the bilge. Then they will take notice and action. Delete the dammed thing.

Joe has his answer as what to use for stripping instead of grinding, that is what the building forum is for.

Elco if you are who I think you are, due to the name, I have been meaning to e-mail you back and thank you for the great picture of the boat.

DELETE THE BILGE- AND STOP THE KRAPT......

[Memphis Mike]

If you want to remove varnish and paint from bronze fittings, remove them and soak them in stripper. BX works well. Rinse under tap water and polish with a soft cloth.

Basic common sence.

Wear your rubber gloves.

[ 03-05-2005, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: Memphis Mike ]

[uncas]

:rolleyes:

[Trog]

http://home.pacbell.net/trog/emu.jpg

[Donn]

Originally posted by RonW:
And we have the typical ostrich head picture as is so common in the bilge to be posted.But here it is in the building forum.It's an Emu, and a handsome one at that!

[Memphis Mike]

http://www.americanbronze.com/CaringforBronze.htm

go to the section on CLEANING AND POLISHING. Bronze is bronze and brass is brass, no matter what it's fashioned into. Joe, you're off to a good start. I can't wait to see the photos of the boat as she comes along.

She looks like she'll be a beauty when you're finished. Nora Lee, you put her in good hands. smile.gif

- Sue H.

[ 03-05-2005, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Memphis Mike ]

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Well if this thread is staying I'm gonna ask....how's the boat coming along Joe? smile.gif

Have I told you what a wonderful project I think this is? :cool:

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

AWW what the hey, let it stay lets hope scot can prune and not kill the tree.

I'm down in the barn for a few quite hours polishing bronze.If you look close at my earlier post you will see I always said I was going to use a buffing wheel and some compound to polish. I like the bronze polished this way the patina that will eventually grow on it will be my patina and I know that it was cleaned and I felt it. Thats an important part of restoration that gets over looked I think, the intimate feeling of every part so later you KNOW that part and how it works.

Since I would be amiss if I did not include Bob advice on bronze in this thread


Originally posted by Bob Smalser:


I much prefer natural bronze on my boats...preferably salvaged and cheap. No mistaking it for a cheap imitation.

I just use a little WD-40 and 0000 steel wool to take off the excess oxidation and promote that dark brown patina I like.

I just use a little WD-40 and 0000 steel woolto take off the excess oxidation and promote that dark brown patina I like. Just what I like Bob thank you ;)

[ 03-06-2005, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[R.Floyd]

:D just use a little WD-40 and 0000 steel woolto take off the excess oxidation and promote that dark brown patina I like. Just what I like Bob thank you

[ 03-06-2005, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )

I just got an Email that tells me that WD-40 is a KEROSENE based solvent. That steel wool will leave microscopic pieces of steel embedded in soft metals such as brass and that they will later rust, leaving orange spots. The kerosene will enter the pores od the metal and lift off any laquer or other finish applied over it. It also says that this was addressed in WoodenBoat magazine 10 years ago.

[ 03-06-2005, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Its Ok I'm using bronze brushes now and no solvents, but thank you.

Upon further restoration I have noticed something interesting. In all the hidden places is branded into the wood M.S.PARK

the locations are in the mast step and on the tiller at the aft end where it fits in the rudder and won't be seen. Could this be the original builder of DOVE ? Does anyone know who M.S.PARK is. if it is the original builder any information would be welcomed since he did a top job building her.

Of course photos ;)

Tiller end

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p0a9f931d1354c9b370092c58481cd28b/f4eb5984.jpg

Mast

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p35e9122b81771f629b951f33adb948a5/f4eb5968.jpg

as far as work progresses I'm taking a break from the bronze so many parts whew and starting to refinish the masts.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p8e4a7e088ea36561ed9c606ebb09a788/f4eb599a.jpg

[ 03-06-2005, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Thats it Joe, keep on truckin. :D http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

[R.Floyd]

Mr. Joe, I'm becoming confused here. You first removed the varnish with 220 grit and showed us how much metal you removed. Then you steel wooled the open brass surface and sprayed it with WD-40. How will you get the kerosene based WD-40 from out of the brass? Will you take off more metal with 220 grit? Didn't you say you were using a grinding wheel? Is that how you will remove the WD-40? Bob Smalser said later to use bronze wool. Why didn't you use bronze wool? Will you coat the fittings with something after you shine them up? You've shown us pictures of your heated garage, will everything be stored inside and then not need to be coated? If you have changed your mind and used brass brushes...doesn't that mean you did it wrong with the steel wool? Will you edit your posts now?

""Ed Harrow
.
Member # 1235

posted 05-04-2001 03:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOT STEEL WOOL!!! You'll end up with all kinds of little rusty bits and stains and you'll curse the day you were born... Bronze wool, or 3M Scotchbrite pads might work

[ 03-06-2005, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Changed user eh?
How many is that now? :rolleyes:
Poof, no more Elco. tongue.gif

[ 03-06-2005, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

1:08 to 1:20, I know you can switch users faster than that. :D

Oh...wait, a 1:17 edit, thats more like it. ;)

[ 03-06-2005, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[Donn]

I don't think it's too unusual. This is the Garvey's tiller:

<img src= "http://www.ennui.net/~donn/boats/P0000885.JPG" width= "750" height= "512">

It's burned on both sides of the tiller:

PIERRE DESAIX
BLUE POINT L.I.

[R.Floyd]

I googled M.S.Park to see what I could find out for you. This maybe it,

http://www.ntac.org/news/01/03/21mormons.html

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

For the record bronze cleaning NOW as follows:

#1 LOOK at part.
Using only white linen gloves to prevent oil from my skin penetrating the soft bronze
#2 220 Sand paper light sanding
#3 BRASS Wire disk on a drill
#4 buffing wheel with a small amount of compound polish.
#5 place in hermetically sealed marked lexan display case
#6 Take a sip of beer
#7 make complex casting drawings to have NEW bronze parts fabricated
#8 Only use the new cast parts on the actual boat cause the originals are far too precious and should only be used for display purposes.

NO Steel wool
NO Steel wire
NO WD40 that was Bob's method I just agreed with him on the aging and patina, but I would not dismiss his advice he knows his stuff.
NO solvent of any type.

[ 03-06-2005, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[JimConlin]

repeat step 6

[StevenBauer]

:D

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Ayup ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p6fb7f3a90653444ff2d173157deee8ee/f4ea9fdd.jpg

Looks better already :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p0526aeba72403decaf85ec106b9b10f5/f4eaa29b.jpg

[R.Floyd]

Why don't you try this,

1)disassemble
2)drop all varnished and painted brass/bronze into a boiling pot of vinigar water.
3)let the parts cool before removing the now "curled" finish with bronze wool.
4)buff using 2000 grit or FINER jewlers rouge and cloth wheel.
5)no heavy abrasives, NO petroleum distilates.
6) some folks add sand/salt to boiling pot as an added adbrasive.
7)if you are not to revarnish/paint or laquer, coat with jewlers wax, the same as one would do for newly chromed pieces.

You've made enough mistakes before the beer. You should wax that turnbuckle.

[ 03-06-2005, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Too late with the advice Floyd, I'm done with the bronze parts. Maybe next restoration Ill give your way a try. Sounds like a very very delicate way to handle it, thanks.

I will wax the turnbuckle, thanks again.

[ 03-06-2005, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[R.Floyd]

Oh, you are welcome. I'll save this thread and repost it for you on your next restoration, in case you forget the order. I'd hate to see another set of bronze hardware go through 220 grit & steelwool with WD-40. Kinda brings a tear to my eye. Shame you didn't know this when you told us what you were doing, it might have saved some of that hardware.

Plus, we wouldn't want you to claim "public knowledge" as your own.

[ 03-06-2005, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

FWIW the bronze parts are not jewelers cast they are a little rough with some pits and voids. The are pretty as hell but they are for a work boat so they have that atheistic. The look decent now sort of befitting their function. Oh and I NEVER used WD40 that was mentioned but I never used it, just so we are clear.

I already saved and will print out your instructions. There very well may be some nice bronze or brass blocks on the boat that I can experiment with that method. Thanks again its a shame you just joined I could have used your advice earlier ;)

[R.Floyd]

I posted on your "Elco's Advice" thread. I guess you missed it. Glad you didn't spray the WD-40. Boil the bronze at a rapid rate for an hour at least, you'll see the varnish/paint curl off. Sounds like you can see the pores in the rough surface, smooth fresh chromed pieces are actually, just as porious and need to be waxed, most folks don't and then have to replate in 1/2 the time. A fine car wax (non cornuba) such as rain dance will work. Many museum art restoration shops (and you are doing a restoration) have special waxes. Glad you didn't soak them in paint remover, either. The bronze alloy used also makes a difference, how much nickle, silicone bronze or maganise bronze. Maganise is actually less noble than the sacrificial zinc used on your prop shafts. Different alloys machine better, although cast, those are machined threads.

p.s.don't swap those bronze turnbuckles for stainless steel. The bronze will enlogate when undewr too much stress, but will hold. Stainless Steel will snap without warning. You know, all the lock sets in an Elco are brass.

[ 03-06-2005, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[Lion]

Elco.....go away.

Lion

[R.Floyd]

Elco was "Scotted". He has gone away.
Whatsa matter Lion? You have a problem with my correct advice to Joe on cleaning his bronze? He seems to appriciate it...why don't you? I supported Elco's advice to not use a heavy abrasive and I posted above about the steel wool.

[ 03-06-2005, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[StevenBauer]

Elco's/R.Floyd:
Your attitude is much improved.

Steven

[ 03-07-2005, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: StevenBauer ]

[R.Floyd]

So Steve...is this how you treat some one that openly shares advice to Joe? He thanked me...and you are going to attack me? I watched how you jackels gang up on folks. If you read the other threads I've posted on since joining, you'll see that I know my wooden boats. Isn't that what this forum is about?

Steven and Lion, I've never meet either of you. What do YOU know about brass and bronze?

[ 03-06-2005, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[StevenBauer]

What attack Allen? I just complemented you on your improved attitude. :D

Steven

[R.Floyd]

This is how you treat some one you've never met?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
StevenBauer
.
Member # 1053

posted 03-06-2005 07:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back on your meds today Elco's/R.Floyd?

[ 03-06-2005, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[StevenBauer]

Oh yeah, right. You're new here. Yeah that's the ticket. Right. ;)
Sorry. ;) ;)

Steven

[R.Floyd]

No wonder no one else posts. I thought it was because nobody knew the answer. Boy was I wrong! Nice to meet the WBF goon squad.

[ 03-06-2005, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[Neville Striker]

Every one else is beyond the point of caring.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Dutch, I care. ;)

[ 03-06-2005, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

You're wrong, I still care.
Nora still cares.
Steven still cares.
I'd guess by his recent post Donn still cares.
I'm sure there's more.
The Wild Dingo loves this stuff.
Joe has a freakin Army of woodenboat lovers who care.
You distractors and your negative comments are loud but few and you won't stop Joe or anyone else.
So eat that and choke on it ya Troll. :D

[Leon m]

I care.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

So for those that care I have taken the time to experiment with Floyd method.

I was working on the mast's and the booms have some bronze hardware. The part that slides along the boom track looks to be a much finer grade of casting way more precision machined than the other parts and a perfect candidate for this new cleaning procedure.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/pebce147c2a53b5503587d818a7205937/f4e8449a.jpg

Next I removed the eye bolt with a craftsman 7/16 racheting wrench to prevent any damage to the bolt. If you do not have a set of these wrenches I recommend then highly they are like a surgeons tool beautiful to work with.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p700a30b4beba7741a13ca811afb52622/f4e844c1.jpg

Next I mixed about 1/2 & 1/2 vinegar to water

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/pb4785aaa589343556ea9d6dfdd936cec/f4e84520.jpg

And yes Dave Flemming that IS a Le Creuset pot I'm using :D . I figure use the best and prevent any metal contamination during the process.

The parts laid out before boiling

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p00a55b449ee2531bcce10f3a332f4801/f4e845b6.jpg

In the pot just before rolling boiling started
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/pec571c8a78e5dc9dd69daf35189b7de8/f4e8461e.jpg

I need to go to the art supply shop to get the rest of the materials just how long are you supposed to let this boil???

[ 03-07-2005, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[R.Floyd]

Uh Joe, thats not a rapid boil and I didn't see any varnish or paint on those parts.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

50 minutes of boiling
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p471075647b5d880e664904aa2772c689/f4e83049.jpg

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by R.Floyd:
Uh Joe, thats not a rapid boil and I didn't see any varnish or paint on those parts.I photographed it before the boil It was BOILING hard for almost an hr. I am calling a bunch of places to find bronze wool and jewelers paste, not that easy around here.

There was never paint on ANY of the bronze parts
But these parts did have varnish on them. Which did become rubbery as soon as I took them out of the bath, but now after they have cooled a bit the varnish went back to being hard, it did not curdle :(

[ 03-07-2005, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[R.Floyd]

Nice change in color. I'm glad its working for you. That varnish has changed its consistancy. You'll find that out once you get your bronze wool. A little buffin and it should shine right up.

[ 03-07-2005, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[TomF]

Looks good - looking forward to hearing a comparison of buffing the boiled vs. the not boiled hardware.

Mr. Floyd, thanks for sharing the technique.

t.

[Ed Harrow]

Jamestown Distrib has, I think, bronze wool. If they don't they should.

Don't boil vinegar in one's house, by the way. ;) DAMHIKT.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

OK I lucked out the local little dinky hardware store up the road beat out the specialty arsty supply places. Which is great cause it is a LOT closer. I should have known better since they had the Brass brush and brass wire wheel. So I got some extra fine brass wool.
I still am not able to find jewelers paste. I have Simichrome which I use on to polish parts on my bicycle can this be used for the bronze parts ?

http://www.jitensha.com/eng/images/Simichrome.jpg

OK so here is my take on Floyd's method. A lot of what he said worked. The varnish did just flake off and the parts were cleaner after the vinegar bath. But using the fine brass wool was a bitch. It takes forever to get a shine. Additionally you cant get into all the nooks and craies as fast or as easy as you can with the brass wire wheel on a drill. Most important the finish when you are done is not all that much different then with the brass wire wheel. At least not to this guys eye. But hey I like the way it removed varnish and so what if it takes a little more time and is harder work. I would rather do it correctly.

Thanks again for the advice - always learning on this forum thats what makes it a great place for a guy like me. ;)

The finished product before final OK on simicrom polish.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/pde3425293db2ad66183ba83e1096c960/f4e80996.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p9dbcc3d79feadcd41fcc2ffbe24f3542/f4e80187.jpg

[ 03-07-2005, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[uncas]

I am thinking for a change! ;) Getting the bronze to look like new is all fine and dandy...I have basically given up on this approach as I would not only be varnishing all of the time but working on brightwork all of the time...three days in the weather, it will not look as though you have done a thing...
A boat needs to work...it needs to be in the water...Energy should be put into getting the boat in the water....Varnish the mast, check the fastenings, check the bottom paint etc...That you need to do to get Dove in the water...The brass/bronze work is secondary!
Just my opinion coming from one who has a lot of bronze on the boat.
I like the petina that goes with bronze... I am not gonna spend hours making it look like brand new... I don't have the time....nor the energy for that matter...
As long as the mechanisms work in the winches...not wenches...and the pulleys work, and everything is greased as they should be...I'm okay with it...

[ 03-07-2005, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: uncas ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Uncas I'm with you 100% but to me this is part and parcel of the total renovation of a boat. I will do this kind of polishing only once then let the natural oxidation take place. The goal is to restore the boat back to as much as original condition as it was 60 years ago. Then let it age again. Doing this for me gets me intimate with every little facet of this boat and how each and every little part works. Also now when oxidation takes place it will not look out of place with all the varnished and repainted boat with new sails. Imagine how those cruddy bronze bits would look on the freshly cleaned spar with a new set of sails? Now it will age gracefully and evenly with the boat. Trust me you think Im going to do this every season ???? :eek: I like a clean boat but I'm not NUTS :eek: :eek: :eek: :D

[ 03-07-2005, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[uncas]

Got ya...Note the bronze here ina pic...Haven't touched it....Just a thought...I do understand where you are coming from...Just know that after three days...it's gonna look like what is on Uncas...Tried it with the pulpit...right down to a shiny finish...three months later...after 3-4 hours of work, it looked as though I didn't do a thing...so...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p0550dc87ba9beebfcac1484d9cb76451/f4e8493b.jpg

[R.Floyd]

Your chrome polish might be okay...did you read the ingrediants? Look for the dreaded "petroleum distillates". If it is a wax based polish then it should be fine. As discussed earlier, you are looking for an inert (nonreactive to the metal) filler for the metal pores. Instead of the bronze wool to polish, use it to remove the varnish and then put some rouge on the buffing wheel and give it a go. Yes, you may have to invest some $ but then you'll have the propper items and know the right techniques for the next one.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

AHHHHHHHHH ONE MAJOR PROBLEM WITH THE VINEGAR BATH !!!

The part turns dark in spots almost back. It loosed all its bright and shiny look shortly . All this after you spend all that time with the BRASS wool :mad: I did another large part and you can see now what I'm talking about :(

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/paf4ec8d3ea4ab39c36acd976975fba99/f4e7c0eb.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p2103d586bbcb88abbfdba3a211602720/f4e7c0d6.jpg

Edited to correct a metal typo ;)

[ 03-07-2005, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[R.Floyd]

Steel wool?
---------------------------------------------
The part turns dark in spots almost back. It loosed all its bright and shiny look shortly . All this after you spend all that time with the steel wool I did another large part and you can see now what I'm talking about
----------------------------------------------

Did you take the parts that you had steel wooled and boiled them?

[ 03-07-2005, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by R.Floyd:
Steel wool?TYPO Floyd :rolleyes: don't get yer nickers in a twist ;)
I meant to say brass wool. Come on I explained that all already.

The parts turned blackish with the vinigar bath and the BRASS WOOL

[R.Floyd]

The parts that you show comming out of the bath need to be shined. You showed us the difference.

You told us the varnish softened and you removed it.
If they turn black then you are having a reaction on the metal surface. Oxidation due to steel wool and or WD-40 would be such a reaction. Again, this is on the surface. Do you have a cloth buffing wheel? Do you have any rouge? It is available at Home Depot.

I use "Columbian" brand "white Rouge Compound from H.D.
Also, if you boiled them in a TIN pan it could do the same (again a surface reaction), but, yours looked like teflon coated.
Also, are you sure your Brass brushes are all brass and not brass plated? Yes, they do that.

[ 03-07-2005, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I DID ALL THAT from the start I had a buffing wheel and compound. The ONLY difference this time is the vinegar bath.

[ 03-07-2005, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[R.Floyd]

?

You posted a picture above of the parts as they came out of the vinigar bath. Now you are showing other parts that you say are turning black. Those parts turning black are not the parts you show after 51 minuetes in the vinigar bath.

I'm explaining a number of situations that would cuase a surface reaction. Vinigar does not react with oxygen.

Are you saying they turned black on thier own after you took the buffing wheel to them? What color is the rouge that you used?

[ 03-07-2005, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[Donn]

Since nobody else is joining in, I'll play The Chemist.

You may not be aware of this, but acetic acid (CH3CO-O-H), the active ingredient in vinegar, has been used for years to add patina to metals. Boiling the acetic acid accelerates the process, because at first, the acetic acid dissolves oxides off the metal's surface, leaving it clean. The problem is that acetic acid evaporates away faster than the water, and the rolling boil continues to introduce oxygen to the water. At this point, the boiling solution will begin etching the metal with metal ions that have dissolved into the solution. They will precipitate back onto the metal, becoming solid oxides. This is particularly true of copper, which, of course, is a constituent of bronze.

[ 03-07-2005, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Donn ]

[Jim H]

Joe if you want to remove sanding/buffing scratches to get a mirror like finish you need to use progressively finer buffing compounds. Jackson 925 Dark Grey is 220 grit, Jackson CR White is 600 grit mand Jackson 51 White is 1200 to 1400 grit. I've done this with SS very successfully. You'll need a different buffing wheel for each compound.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by R.Floyd:
?

You posted a picture above of the parts as they came out of the vinigar bath. Now you are showing other parts that you say are turning black. Those parts turning black are not the parts you show after 51 minuetes in the vinigar bath.

I'm explaining a number of situations that would cuase a surface reaction. Vinegar does not react with oxygen.

Are you saying they turned black on their own after you took the buffing wheel to them? What color is the rouge that you used?First let me say thank you Donn damn that was a great impression of the chemist and I think you hit the nail on the head as to what happened.

R.Floyd:

LET US BE PERFECTLY CRYSTAL CLEAR HERE

The photo of the part in the vinegar bath are the EXACT SAME PARTS I SHOWED EARLIER with the exception of one larger part that I gave the vinegar bath as I was polishing the first set of parts that I photographed going into and out of the vinegar bath. Are you with me so far????

THEN I used BRASS WOOL to polish them after they came out of the vinegar bath,
THEN I used WHITE compound no petroleum distillates and a buffing wheel
I photographed the first set all bright and shiny.

Then I did the exact same procedure with the larger piece. Are you still following me?

The larger part started to show blackening and discoloration fast which led me to go back and check the first set of parts I had already put in their marked zip-lock bag.

LASTLY I posted a photograph of ALL the parts that had received the vinegar bath and the dark finish that occurred.

THOSE ARE THE PARTS THAT WENT INTO THE VINEGAR BATH !!!!
NO STEEL WOOL OR PETROLEUM DISTILLATE CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE PARTS AT ANY TIME

ARE WE CLEAR NOW????????

[Dave Gray]

Ouch, my eyes!

[Keith Wilson]

Elco's, I don't care how much you disagree with Joe about politics. I don't care how much you dislike him personally, or as close to personally as one can get from internet postings. This is completely inappropriate, particularly outside the bilge. He's got a good old boat and is trying to fix it up as well as he knows how. If you have to be obnoxious on the forum, take this downstairs where it belongs.

[ 03-07-2005, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[R.Floyd]

First off, you don't need the capitals, I've only been trying to help you since my first post. What did you find when you went back to the first set that you put in plastic baggies?
If the first set did not turn black but the second set did, then there obviously is a difference some where.
The below post was yours and is why I asked if you had used WD-40 on the piece that turned black.
_________________________________________________

just use a little WD-40 and 0000 steel woolto take off the excess oxidation and promote that dark brown patina I like. Just what I like Bob thank you

[ 03-06-2005, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson
------------------------------------------------

IF THE BRONZE WAS SHINED AND NOT WAXED AS I TOLD YOU TO DO,THE SURFACE IS OPEN TO OXIDATION!!

WHAT DOES THE WAXED TURNBUCKLE LOOK LIKE??

[ 03-07-2005, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

one set
never used wd40
I don't even have wd40 in my shop
vinegar oxidize to black not acceptable finish for me
Thank you for your help, I will go back to my adapted way using a brass wire wheel, brass wool, white buffing paste and buffing wheel.

Turnbuckle was not waxed yet and was not in vinegar and looks great. I will wax when I purchase wax.

I will never use vinegar again!
So ends the of the bronze polishing part of this thread.

Now on to wooden spars.

[ 03-07-2005, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Donn]

It ain't the vinegar's fault! Properly used, it's part of one of the best bronze/copper de-oxiders I've found.

Dissolve 3 tsp of salt in 1 cup of household vinegar. Mix in enough flour to make a paste just dry enough to stick to the part. Cover the part completely, and put it in a baggie overnight. Rinse it off, and re-do if needed.

Interestingly, sawdust is frequently used instead of flour.

Here's another hot tip. The next time you try a chemistry project suggested by someone you already think is a troll, try it on an inconsequential bit, like a screw.

[R.Floyd]

Fromthe very beginning, I said it was to remove paint and varnish.
Donn
.
Member # 1938

posted 03-07-2005 05:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It ain't the vinegar's fault! Properly used, it's part of one of the best bronze/copper de-oxiders I've found.

Dissolve 3 tsp of salt in 1 cup of household vinegar. Mix in enough flour to make a paste just dry enough to stick to the part. Cover the part completely, and put it in a baggie overnight. Rinse it off, and re-do if needed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

You know joe, if you can't handle something as simple as polishing brass, then maybe you should give the boat back.

[ 03-07-2005, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[Gary E]

Joe,

This may be too late for you now, but if you have more parts like that with grunge, paint, varnish, or gunk of ANY KIND, take them to a machine shop that has a glass bead machine, it will clean them up faster than you can with any chemicals and then if you want shiney start with the polishing wheels.

G

[alteran]

Boil in vinegar. Faux anodizing......

Acetidizing! The newest thing, coming soon to a West Marine near you. smile.gif

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Thanks for the advice Donn. O&O West gave the OK for the test I consulted him first, but I understand where you are coming from ;)
Floyd the boats not going back its mine to do what I decide with it, that ship has sailed so to speak. So stop asking :D

Just to let you know Im almost done with the mizzen mast. 150 on a ROS finished with 220 by hand smooth as glass no dips or flat spots. Got the industrial fan going particulate respirator on and iPod jacked in set to random works well with a ROS :D

Ahhh what the hey how about a photo :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p91f275e1a643591100778464e6711b82/f4e71984.jpg

[ 03-07-2005, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Hey, wait just a darn minute, I'm supposed to be the only Mr. Know It All! :D tongue.gif

Trial and lots of errors is my restoration method too Joe. ;)

She's gonna be beautiful when you're done, no doubt in my mind. smile.gif

[Dave Fleming]

I never said it WOULD work just that it SOUNDED good.


that XXXXX Elco may have something there with Bronze/Brass clean up. Oh Dhowman, it was a given in my mind that you would try a small piece first!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[uncas]

I think so too...Wish I had the patience!

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Its all ok O&O West its all fixed good as new now. I did not dip the whole cash of bronze in a bath tub with the vinegar ;)

Your advice is always gold you know that ;)

Now about the mast dark spots in the spruce I hear tell there is a wood bleach is that so?

Oooooh ooooh Tammy Wynette is on singing stand by your man - GOOOOD SONG :D

[ 03-07-2005, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by R.Floyd:
The finished product before final OK on simicrom polish
-------------------------------------------------

sounds like it did EXACTLY as I said it would. Folla? Your Chrome polish did it
You don't read to well do ya Floyd ? :rolleyes:
I never said I used simacrome I simply was asking about it
I used white compound polish.
so my simacrome could not have done it because I did not use it ( I wont even use the f***a word its implied ;) )

[ 03-07-2005, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[R.Floyd]

Donn
.
Member # 1938

posted 03-07-2005 03:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since nobody else is joining in, I'll play The Chemist.

You may not be aware of this, but acetic acid (CH3CO-O-H), the active ingredient in vinegar, has been used for years to add patina to metals. Boiling the acetic acid accelerates the process, because at first, the acetic acid dissolves oxides off the metal's surface, leaving it clean. The problem is that acetic acid evaporates away faster than the water, and the rolling boil continues to introduce oxygen to the water. At this point, the boiling solution will begin etching the metal with metal ions that have dissolved into the solution. They will precipitate back onto the metal, becoming solid oxides. This is particularly true of copper, which, of course, is a constituent of bronze.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

If boiling it in vinigar cuased it, it would NOT have taken hours to turn black, it would have turned black immediately, FOLLA!

[ 03-07-2005, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: R.Floyd ]

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Quote by R.(Pink)Floyd...."I'm outa here".

Promise? :D

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I will tell people in a nice and informative way. It's called learning and passing on the knowledge. Its what this place is all about.

Just a side note I have received a few emails from people who lurk on this site thanking me for posting all this. To them and everyone Dove is as much a part of the WBF as it is mine. If it was not for this place I would not be doing this. So it is my obligation to share it all with you. Thank you for your continued support, and look for a big thank you in Woodenboat Magazine in the launchings section some month soon smile.gif

[StevenBauer]

So when do you pick up the actual boat and start the really fun part?

Steven

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Steven......Can you imagine what this thread is going to be like when we get to questions about CPES? :eek: :D

[canoes]

Hi,
I will tell you what has work for me for cleaning and bleaching. I have used Oxalic Acid and most of the time used a 2 part teak brightener. Most of my experience has been with various cedars and spruce. (canoe related items) It has always brightened and worked well. Hope this helps.

Larry

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Floyd I thought you were out of here??? You are welcomed to stay if you want.

Take care I'm done sanding my hands are vibrating almost too much to open this beer lol

Don't think I will need or use wood bleach. The dark spots are faint after hand sanding. So far the mast looks good.

Steven I should get the hull by next week. There is a mound of snow in front of both mine and Doves current barn. That needs to melt before I can mover her.

[ 03-07-2005, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Leon m]

After all that work I bet you appreciate a nice patina a liitle more. ;) :D

[Lion]

Elco/Floyd gone? Let's hope so!

Can comment on removing stains from softwood (fir, spruce, etc). Have used Oxcalic acid with great success. Apply, dry, wash off with water, sand and it will eliminate the most stubborn stain. Fixed a timber mast of a Dragon this way, looked like new. Not very time consuming and you will end up with a super job.

There is also an article in an earlier edition of WB mag on this very topic which says much the same and cautions against some of the more aggressive proprietary cleaners.

Great project and job, Joe. Making me feel very inadequate as I have had projects on hand for two years with little progress. You have had the boat 2 minutes and you're into it !!!!

Lion

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Scot my sincere gratitude for the pruning of this thread and not just killing it. It looks wonderful I'm sure Nora Lee is happy as well, Thank you.

[ 03-08-2005, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

OK this is going to start as big of a flurry as the snow that is now steadily falling outside my window now :(

Last night just before cleaning up the shop and inspecting my work on the mizzen mast I started looking at the main mast and noticed something a miss. :eek:

It looks as though at some time in the last 60 years there was a crack or the mast had snapped and they repaired it with ........ OK some of you may need to look away from the screen now ...... epoxy and fiberglass glass tape EEEEEEK :eek:
Then they painting a kinda faux wood over the patch to match the mast . I will tell you it looks like they did a dam good job on the repair. The mast is strait and true and strong and had I not started to look at it and hit it with a bit of sandpaper I would not have noticed it.

So what do ya do

One solution is to take the time and hone my skills and learn how to make a birds mouth mast using the main as a template.

Or just use the mast as is sail the hell out of it and work on a new one at a later date. When I get back down to the barn I will post a photo.

[ 03-08-2005, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Yer funny Floyd :D You don't read well LOL Its Ok you know your boats but when it comes to the linguistic arts your lacking hmm ??

FWIW Scot not I edited and will probably have to a few times on this thread. Some of yours may end up on the cutting room floor. So don't blame me when that happens ;)

Oh and I don't even own WD-40 but that has not penetrated to you yet, its OK I'm patient :D

[Dave Fleming]

Dhowman, the Epoxee and Feeberglaz tape repair method has been around a long time.

Get the rest of the work done, sail the boat and then see if you want to make a new one ***next*** winter.

[mmd]

Good advice, Dave.

[StevenBauer]

His problem is if he sands the mast down to get it all shiny and new looking will the patch stand out like a sore thumb? And are his faux finishing skills as good as the previous workers?
Where are the pics!? smile.gif

Steven

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by StevenBauer:
His problem is if he sands the mast down to get it all shiny and new looking will the patch stand out like a sore thumb? And are his faux finishing skills as good as the previous workers?
Where are the pics!?

StevenAsk and ye shall receive ;)

Walking down to the barn is depressing today, too much snow :(
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p921706104770b90cbac46cb2e47b63bf/f4e4eff8.jpg

This snow mound and one similar to this is in front of the barn Dove is kept. That is what's keeping her from heading HOME

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p43a221f4451ec718d9e7ddfbc2c4ad85/f4e4f291.jpg

This is one end of the patch. You can see the weave of the cloth and the yellow of the epoxy. The faux painting is incredible you can not tell unless you are looking very very very close. The patch is wrapped like a candy cane and goes down the mast 7 feet. The mast is about 20 ft long and the tape patch starts 2.5 ft up from the base and continues for 7 ft.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/pcedf56156354a33d9a595a576730e864/f4e4efb5.jpg

This is the sanded mizzen next to the main. You can see there is a big color shift. I have a pretty good feeling I can do a faux finish better than I can do a new birds mouth mast lol. The problem is how do you gauge it when the mast is all fresh and clean ?? not brown and yellow/orange. I will of course use multiple coats of spar varnish.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p1a890ccf18834635941a9518f67f5800/f4e4efcf.jpg

Oh and while I was in the barn I couldn't help myself but take this photo for Floyd, see no WD-40. Oh and I have never used White Lightning on the boat yet, hmmmm wonder if it would be good on the sail track its a paraffin based lube

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/pefa83c7afbc971204c71bd52161d4177/f4e4efe5.jpg

[ 03-08-2005, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Keith Wilson]

Joe, one small word of advice: be VERY careful of silicone lubricants anywhere near paint or adhesives. They can do surprising and unpleasant things to coatings, and they sometimes migrate in an almost magical fashion to precisely where you don't want them.

[NormMessinger]

Don't just be careful, don't even let any sillycone containing stuff in to your shop.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by R.Floyd:
Just to settle my own curiousity, do you believe they wrapped the mast with fiberglass and then painted a fuax wood pattern on the fiberglass?Yes, that IS what they did.

[ 03-09-2005, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I spoke to the previous owner of Dove. He said YES the mast had been repaired and faux painted. Probably by the artist that Nora mentioned in this thread, I try to read everything before I post. Just a suggestion ;)


Originally posted by Nora Lee:

FYI: the dove on the bow was painted by an artist friend Gail Adams, she is the one that did the wonderful bird paintings in Alan's house. She also painted doves on the bow of the Hudson Valley Clearwater Sloop "Woody Guthrie" launched in Kingston, NY in 1979 (we were there for the launch)
Currently the mast and rigging are displayed in my barn museum. The rest of her has been sitting in another barn museum for the last 20 years LOL :D :D

[ 03-09-2005, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Incredible but TRUE :D

I think what I will do is clean the spar match the grain and do the faux finish work myself. I'm a capable artist. I painted this.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p1b4e02bc30691dd2cb96a1f25e06d6bf/f9b58189.jpg

Or I might even get that artist that did it originally to freshen it up. :D

Whatever Im going to sail her and see how it goes come next winter possibly hone my skills and try making one of those nice birds mouth mast's, using the original as a template.

[Lion]

Joe

Keep posting, I for one find the process of 'discovery' during your rebuild interesting.

Congrats on your new-found restraint in dealing with the Floyd troll provocation.

Lion

[uncas]

Firstly...I am not Joe's lackey...for anyone who may think so...
Secondly, I have little experience in boat building and don't normally reply to threads dealing with boat building...There are people out there who do such work for a living....
What I do like is seeing someone start with a project from scratch...making mistakes...sure...I would make a lot....if I attempted this...But, the errors and the right things done help me...

I know when something isn't right on Uncas...I can see it...I don't know how to fix it...
I am getting good at varnishing but I have only learned the techniques because I am taking in what others...who know...have to say...
So...keep it up...Mistakes and all. I learn from both.

[Donn]

Only 2 more, Unc!

[Nora Lee]

Hi everyone,

Our "Little Brother" Scot is watching this thread on my request! Let this be a warning!!!

Joe, For any products that you are having trouble finding go to Crispell"s Hardware on Rt 9D in Hyde Park...if they don't already have it they will get it! I hope they are still there! We refurbished our house on Prospect Street using them all the time!

Ask Alan for the web site for Gail Adams, she is a wonderful artist! I would try www.gailadams.com (http://www.gailadams.com) in the meantime!

You are doing me proud, boy! Just heard that I will be going north for a wedding mid-April, I definitely will get to Cold Spring to inspect, whie gloves and all!

Keep up the good work...this is an amazing thread and you are doing things in an amazingly rapid fashion.

I am sure you will be glad when winter is over up there!

Regards,

Nora

[ 03-10-2005, 05:01 AM: Message edited by: Nora Lee ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Thanks Nora, that was very sweet.

I just got off the phone with Crispell"s they do not handle any marine hardware anymore :( Sound like nice guys. It is a real problem for me to find a MARINE hardware store around here. The only true marine hardware store and it's a GOOOD one is Brewer's In Mamaroneck but that's FAR FAR AWAY. Its so good though you don't mind the trip, real old time marine hardware store with draws and draws of fittings and silicone bronze screws and paint and varnish and and and. I'm not a big fan of buying everything on line. I love just walking around a good hardware store just looking and touching things. Brewers is that kind of place.

I'm so bad with my hardware store LUST that yesterday I had to go to Home Depot ( yea I know not a real old time store like Brewer's ) But I had to get some more 150 grit 5" 8 hole sanding disks for my ROS and a fresh can of my favorite varnish Man-O-War $30 a GALLON :D But after I picked up those things I walked around and window shopped for like an HR. I LOVE any kind of hardware store.

I'm fortunate to have found a spectacular place for marine lumber not far from me ML Condon in Stormeville truly a wonderful MARINE lumber yard with all the exotics. But if anyone knows a good Marine hardware store closer to me than Brewers I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks again and Im off to sand some more now ;)

[ 03-10-2005, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Mizzen DONE!!!!!
3 coats of varnish 3 more to go.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p7a4522e3bfa0949ff069d7a533e228c7/f4df3f34.jpg

Some detail shots with hardware temporarily on

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p02d463b2ab8cf0a3e8ed0ed2491f1d57/f4df3f4c.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/pa64343d82b1aeb28c4e2d5b41f5641c2/f4df3f41.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p41d1d52af6d20ee30cb02bbab79ae40d/f4df3f23.jpg

This weekend I am going to read up and buy a faux wood painting kit and attempt the main mast. THEN I'm gonna NEED the hull for something to do :D I figure at this rate with this much snow on the ground I may very well have a spring launch LOL smile.gif

Doubt it, just dreaming :D

[ 03-10-2005, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Nora Lee]

Condon's is wonderful isn't it? You can spend all day looking in their sheds! They have some really good deals on scrap ends or at least they did!

I am praying for a quick thaw!

Nora

[Ed Harrow]

Joe, Great Uncle Dick (of my varnish brushes), and "Poppie" (consumate doer of anything) both used Man-o-War exclusively on their stuff. I'd tell you Uncle Dick's brushes bristles have never touched a drop of other stuff, but I'd be lying.

Now, it might not be what it once was, or the other stuff might be better than it once was, or now is, but it's got a good history (tho I dislike the new cans intensely).

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

OK another Sunday and I’m going stir crazy in my office in town. I have with me at all times a set of vellums taken from the original plans for Dove. Figuring out what I need to look at after I clean off the 20+ years of dust and crud on her.

The weather has broken a bit and it’s a balmy sunny 40+F Snow is melting everywhere. So I called the the home where Dove currently resides. We are making plans for the BIG MOVE hopefully next week. :D :D :D

Oh and of course look for photos of the BIG MOVE smile.gif

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Looking forward to the photos Joe.
Wish I could be there to help.
Oh well, in spirit eh? ;)

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

WHEW I'm tired. Been working a lot lately but I set aside today to go and get Dove.

The day started off rainy and cold and drizzly, but cleared up at around 2:00 p.m. when we scheduled to get dove. Dove's previous owner was like, well we can do some work today and maybe then move her out on Wed. I was nodding yea sure ;) But I knew I was getting her home to my barn TODAY.

Look I already made a spot for her and cleaned out the barn this morning
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid161/pf2dd3b9d26722f3b785061ad461b6473/f4c10a13.jpg

When I got to Alan's barn he I was pleased to see he had already done an amazing amount of work moving the crap that was inside her and also some of the crap around. I knew for sure that she was coming home with me

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid161/pcfd4c0885cce139176b34b1cc254e7d2/f4c10ace.jpg

So we jacked the old trailer up and put on the new wheels I had brought. Cleared more crap from around the trailer including a bit of time chopping ice to open the barn doors.

The first time Dove has seen daylight in almost 30 years

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid161/p82d73ed28f39b81a550403903df2383b/f4c10aa5.jpg

Out and hooked to the old jeep she is ready for the SLOW but short trip back to her NEW home

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid161/peca5b0761e76382a6a433f7d135b65ca/f4c109e6.jpg

We put some straps on her and I was on our way

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid161/p91f5de4079a345c36be55a7d5f081754/f4c10a86.jpg

WE MADE IT

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid161/p3c9c33f14aa368d37e9231e52f1ee611/f4c10a58.jpg

[ 03-21-2005, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I took a power washer and set it on gentle and took off almost 30 years of dust and dirt.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid161/p953ab08d9a6d0a43abaaf7b7e6dbfce3/f4c109c6.jpg

Ahhhhh finally ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid161/pec98d20b4d061779ac12f9ed86270d67/f4c10a36.jpg

[uncas]

Joe...glad you got her home without too many glitches. Also looks as though the snow is melting! ;)

[L.W. Baxter]

What a revelation, getting a look at her out of doors. Excellent choice of boats to rehabilitate, Joe.

Very solid and pretty at the same time... like a Swedish dairy maid! :D

--Lee

[StevenBauer]

Great news! Thanks for sharing. smile.gif

Steven

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Glad to hear all went well. smile.gif
Nice boat ya got there Joe. :cool:

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I couldn't help myself from running down to the barn first thing this morning. Looking around and this new project. Just for giggles I decided to see if a motor would hang off the narrow V shaped dory transom. My 45# thrust minkotta fits with no interference with the rudder action. My idea is to bolt on a sacrificial wooden motor mount bolted through the transom, that will rise slightly above the aft deck. I might be able to get the seagull on that mount too.

My question is do you think this electric trolling motor sufficient for a boat this size and weight. Also when I went to pick up Dove the previous owner handed me 10 lead plates ( not all at once ;) ) that are supposed to go under the bilge boards and provide additional stability. So if the trolling motor is OK how about one of those trickle charge thin flexible solar panels. I could put out when she sits on her mooring and charge the battery ?

If not and I can't get the seagull working is there a NARROW little kicker I could hang off the transom.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid162/p8dd82204f6a36646d7ba9f7a53a06a85/f4bf4e23.jpg

[ 03-22-2005, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Looks bigger and better with the sticks in place :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid162/pee6b6b99e8c421c3345d061a4aa0f223/f4be62e0.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid162/p472008962535c816b19a69a610348962/f4be6265.jpg

[ 03-22-2005, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[StevenBauer]

Waddaya mean "If not and I can't get the seagull working "? I thought you could rebuild those things hanging over the side with a swiss army knife! Someone gave you the links to the Seagull sites, right? And while we're at it why would you want the motor way back there on the transom? Why not just use the bracket on the quarter where it belongs? If you don't still have the bracket Roger at Bristol Bronze has them.
Oh, yeah. She looks great with the sticks in.

Steven

[Keith Wilson]

Great boat - looks even prettier out in the open where you can really see her. Why would you want the motor all the way back there where you can't steer it, or worse yet, change the speed without a long stretch? Yes, you can just lock it stright ahead and use the rudder, but one point of a little outboard on a sailboat is manuverability in tight places where it'd be tricky to sail.

As far as the electric motor goes, I use a 55 or 60# Minnkota on a sailboat (of that unmentionable substance) displacing about 1500# empty. With the sails down, it'll make steerageway against a 20 mph wind, and cruise along at about 4 or 5 mph in a calm. We don't have tidal currents around here, and I haven't ever sailed it in the river. It's fine for pulling away from the ramp or dock, and OK for getting home if the wind dies on lakes. Drawbacks are lack of reserve power and limited range. It's almost completely silent, and doesn't smell or leave an oil slick on the water.

About the Seagull: opinions differ, some people love them passionately. I don't. However, everyone agrees that they're REALLY LOUD, and the older ones used a 10:1 oil mix ratio. Old-technology 2-strokes burn at most 3/4 of the gas and oil you put into them; the rest goes out the exhaust mixed with the smoke. That's a lot of oil to be dumping in the Hudson.

[ 03-22-2005, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[westinghouse]

While I agree with what has been said about the drawbacks of a seagull, I thought I'd add: the head is held together with four screws. If the thing won't go, check for spark. If you have spark, open head and wire brush the top of the piston. Reassemble and clack clack, ten more years out of a seagull (curse or blessing, hard to say - mine went with the last boat and I'm not going to replace it). If nothing else, it's worth something if it's running, and not if it's not.

G'luck Joe.

[StevenBauer]

If you don't like the Seagull your best bet is the Honda 2HP 4-stroke. Brand new around $700.
But you don't want her out on the transon.

Steven

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Last week I faxed a copy of her sail plan to North Sail and Quantum to get me an estimate on the sheets. Both are sending me swatch books of material. I'm still thinking of tanbark even though the guy at North sail said that the oz on Tanbark may be a little to heavy for the sail plan. Quantum says they have a tanbark in the same weight as regular darcron and is sending me two weights. The are also sending me samples of Egyptian Cotton looking dacron which may also be appropriate even though $$$$ its more of a creamy color than stark white.

What are you opinions.

Here is her sail plan

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/ActiveIII-1.gif

[John Bell]

My next boat (assuming SWMBO gives the go ahead) will likely have 'egyptian' dacron sails. Tanbark looks so old-world and workboatish, whereas the creamy egyptian looks more classic-yachtish to me. I think it comes down to whether or not you see the boat as a fish boat or a yacht as to what you choose. I'd go egyptian myself.

BTW, now that I've see some pictures that allow me to have a sense of scale on this boat: I beg you, please don't put a house on her! ;)

[Hwyl]

Joe, I posted somewhere (I think it was the convertible cabin thread) that short, one halyard, Bahamanian style gaffs or oversize headboards would look good on this boat. They would also hugely improve the sailing characteristics.

Todd Bradshaw does not seem to post here anymore (I'm close to emulate him). I would love to have the input of a sail expert, but to me the boat is crying out for some kind of modification.

I'd say headboards, curved in an arc about 4 to 6 inches long.

[ 03-26-2005, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Hwyl ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Hwyl sorry I really do not want to change the sail plan at all. All the sanding rigging is way to beautiful and the 3/4 Bronze sail track is just too nice. The goal is to keep her as dead on original as possible. I just removed some not traditional calking below the waterline and I think Im going to forgo the dynle and epoxy in favor of more traditional canvas and white lead.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Hard to work on a beautiful day like this with a good breeze a blowing and over 50 F and the sun is shining. And with a perfectly sailable skiff sitting in my barn ready to go out for the first sail of the year. Ha but there is work to be done. I got about 3/4 of the hull sanded & ready for caulking & painting.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid164/pe2dd100d294ee05abfba18fc692bea60/f480b7ff.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid164/p21c5ae156cfce0ec2e1419ee6e7d132f/f480b7d4.jpg

One great thing that came out of the Mystic EBS was talking to Margo about the shims for the mast. I got a bunch of ratty cracked and splintered cedar shims with dove. Margo said make 4 nice ones out of mahogany for the shims. She told me think door stopper.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid164/p6e3c50d603ba9b571a3703bc8dfe3d16/f480b7ad.jpg

I added the leather to protect the thwart a little what do you guys think.

[ 04-11-2005, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Matt J.]

Joe, please excuse my ignorance, perhaps this was covered before - or even I'm just plain wrong (no!?) - but wouldn't a heat gun and a scraper be faster, cleaner, quieter, and just as effective without risking sanding into the wood?

Yer just removing the paint, right? I just scraped clean Rarus' bulwarks last weekend - took a grand total of 6 or 8 hours; that's 24' on deck, about 10-12" high, with frames to work around... It's just so much more effective than sanding (if I had to sand them, I don't think I'd do them - it's that much worse to sand).

Just asking, correct me if I'm wrong. :confused:

[Matt J.]

BTW, regarding shims for the mast... should work, but rememberwith only 4 of them they could shift if they're not tight and you're sailing hard - the stresses in the rig transmit down to the hull, thwart, mast, etc... a moving shim on one tack could spell trouble (or just inefficiency) on the other tack.

Rarus has 20 shims for each the main and mizzen masts - a job to put in and take out, but if yer boat's meant to be kept wet, It's possible that more shims could be better suited. With 20 in, they don't move much if at all (last year I tweaked them after the first sail, but that was it, they hadn't moved before November when the rigging came down).

Rarus' are oak, all fit carefully together around the mast. It's a half hour job to put them in and tighten them up - obviously not a real option if this is strictly a trailer sailor, but then, those seems won't like trailer sailing anyway, will they?

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Matt, it's just what I have been used to using. I do not have a heat gun or a scraper, but I have tons of sanding disks smile.gif On the hull im not going down to the bare wood above the waterline. Just down to the primer white. Getting it fair and smooth works better for me with a ROS. Then I will prime and sand and prime and wet sand and then paint.

As fro the shims, I was thinking 4 might be to few and since the mast is an octagon at that point I will probably go with 8 shims per mast. And yea I can see how this is going to be a PITA to rig properly. I'm not going to trailer her she will be on a mooring and come out and the end of the season. So hopefully I will only have to rig her once. I'm assuming I will have to make some sort of covering or boot over the shims. Back to work.

[ 04-11-2005, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Keith Wilson]

Joe, you have more energy and persistence than most folks, but there are ways to take off paint and varnish that would be easier on both you and the boat. Go getcherself one of these. A cheap Chinese one will work just fine; twenty bucks is about the normal price.
http://www.diydata.com/tool/heat_gun/heatgun.jpg

And one of these (accept no substitutes); they generally sell them at Sherwin-Williams paint stores. Sharpen it like a cabinet scraper, (if you don;t know how to sharpen a cabinet scraper, look here (http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/lifeaftersandpaper.pdf)) and you'll go about twice as fast and won't end up with paint dust clogging every orifice.

http://www.woodzone.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/pro-prep-single.jpg

[ 04-11-2005, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

First full day with the shipwright going over her. He walked into my shop with a bag of tools and a Woodenboat T shirt. Ya got to like that eh ? ;) Lots of good news as he surveyed the situation.

No real rot some sore places that we are going to hit with some CPES ( Yes I did use that word ) This guy is the real deal. I mention about 50 shortcuts and he dismisses them with a roll of the eye and looking at Dove snickering do you really want to do that to her ?

The goal at this point is to shore up the hull and make her float. So we have assessed the garboard. All the outer apex of the garboard screws #10 will be removed. A large pipe clamp with temp blocks to get a good clamp on will be fastened. The garboard will be pulled tight and new #12 SB screws will be driven in. Looking at the bottom and from the existing drawings there is 3/4 planking for the flooring that has been used to screw the garboard in place. There is also a 3/4 rabbet plank the runs inside the hull. We will be replacing the bottom and drilling new every other spot above into that rabbet plank refastening to pull it in tight. The side seam will be 1/4" router with the proper taper up top and a clean flat spot on the bottom. Then a new white cedar spline with the correct bevel will be replaced, then traditional calking and bunging.

The rubrail is removed and the coaming is removed. We are sistering some of the deck frames 2 have a little dry-rot. We may attempt to CPES the dry-rot. Then the deck which has NEVER had any canvas will be canvassed. White Lead paste ( shhhhh I'm gonna need a source for that (( not easy to find I hear ))

We removed the entire coaming so we can wrap the canvas and monel staple it in place.

At this point I cant even bare to take photos she looks like a wreck all broken apart. It scares the bejesus out of me to see her this way. But we are starting to have serious progress and I trust this guy to do a good job. I may go out sailing on his restored Herrshoff this weekend if I can steal away.

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

I'll show you my naked boat if you show me yours. :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid138/pd74029479a133494292ba987a902f285/f713fe29.jpg



This is the interesting part Joe.
Seeing how they take her apart and put her together. ;)

Where do the guys in the know buy SB screws from?

Are the old screws breaking off on "Dove"

Flatheads?
Details man, we need details. :D

[ 07-01-2005, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

*****EPIPHANY *****

After much sanding I finally went out and bought a heat gun and paint scraper as recommended by some on this forum. WOW Oh My GOD did I just make my life simpler.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you :D

Dove looks like hell now all bare and bits removed but work is progressing. I may even celebrate and post a photo of her naked later tonight. ;)

[Keith Wilson]

Tolja. ;)

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by Keith Wilson:
Tolja. ;) Didn't ya :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid176/pe617a8f8aa8c15000b1f914c87ca415e/f3604238.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid176/p96a6409fb1f950a8779982996ccc5e51/f360425f.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid176/p5e5c5d34a9d043af76428fa2f04f56ac/f3604216.jpg
(removed all the bungs and screws by hand all around whew :eek: )

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Joe.....I know what a nasty job that is. tongue.gif
Ya gotta make em ugly before ya make em beautiful. ;)
Good job! smile.gif

[StevenBauer]

Don't forget lots of ventilation. smile.gif

Steven

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

DOVE Flew the coupe

We made the big move today of having Dove no longer being worked on by the Shipwright in my barn.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid197/pdede83b7a1ae0ec9fe2ae603032e8be6/f108c468.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid197/paf49004c23b2112c1a9c70104c761c57/f108c474.jpg

She will now be a full time restoration in his shop. He needed to finish a few projects and get them out of the space to fit her in. Now since he cant work on anything big until he gets Dove out work should progress dramatically in the next two month ;) . Look for more progress photos soon.

Kinda leaves a big hole in my barn :( Hmmmmmm what can I fill it with hmmmmm how a bout a nice ol Catboat, yea thats the ticket ;)

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Ok it's starting to go back together we are getting the garboards back on. Yeaaaaaaaaa :D Still looks like hell but it's more cosmetic now than structural.

New oak

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid201/p706acd71796baf3bdd3bf07891ddffbf/f0381337.jpg

New epoxy encapsulated ply gussets.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid201/pbf12675acf1300e271860f6d93e6242f/f038132b.jpg

Sikaflex and through bolted. It IMMEDIATELY made a HUGE difference in the rigidity of the boat. It went from being a wet noodle to a stiff solid boat.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/pc09ea7979cb2c1d8699256b1b6f48d38/efd38c6d.jpg

Notice the floor timbers are caulked

Phil works on scraping the rub rail.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p5ef5ef47b536fa12410b9309f4221498/efd38c5e.jpg

Perfectly scarfed bottom edge of the boat

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/pfc0b6324bfa3675a73ea070355f9b235/efd38c8d.jpg

Garboard back in place, with a router jig for cutting a fresh edge to spline a new calking bevel.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p7f56b21bde713f9d4850698c14721a93/efd38c42.jpg

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Eric carefully routing the garboard

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p366f2d98aa1f17a137991eb5c0f107e8/efd08cd2.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/pc9938e35c99b3aaaa57c591ba5a5da65/efd08c7b.jpg

Next we had to prep both the comings and the garboards chewed up screw holes.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p82e749c6f9e1b68e39993694eaf92ba4/efd08d2b.jpg

Eric developed a jig to center the bit over the old screw hole

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p45cbe522f347a5023a9eccb659f17de5/efd08d14.jpg

The fresh hole

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p4e1afc057b49b44e3c5cf63c4fd86b2f/efd08cb1.jpg

Next we had to make some bungs. We used a nice 1/4 sawn oak for the coming & nnice white cedar for the garboard.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/pcc246586c01de53fc2c4004d09fae6f8/efd08ce3.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/pa4edca4b07d7c264a4b119a2f014a29f/efd08c8a.jpg

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Good Stuff

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/pfb8989dd5835fdda974adeb0a5069877/efd08c9f.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p37b749a5548b5fe54e966f8966ad5aaa/efd08cf8.jpg

Ta da bungs

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p9dca2870ed2248be6ce7d3264889c989/efd08cc1.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/pd3b12ca3ad052506af07ef4e597cd96b/efd08d05.jpg

[Alan D. Hyde]

Good photos, Joe. :D

Phil, I won't tell Smalser about your respirator (see above). :D

Alan

[Phil Heffernan]

I needs me a RESpirator, before OSHA finds out ;)

Not healthy, I know...

PH

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Got the good stuff came today - Must mean we are getting close ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p91a5cf7c68e3cb14fda439294d284608/efcbad91.jpg

[ 03-21-2006, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

You should find that nice little boat a good home in Canada. ;) :D

Nice Job Joe... That boat is going to be a real gem :cool:

[ddeaton]

Joe, sorry to jump in on Dove's post. Is your sheet laced at the foot, or sailtrack on Tidbit? Do you have any pics of the rigging? I am planning out my Wittholz 17 now.
Thanks,
Danny

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Both Dove & Tidbit have sailtrack at the foot. Tidbit has 4 - 7" mast hoops on the main and sailtrack on the gaff & boom. Dove has sailtrack on the main and the mizzen.

Sorry since the sails are still being made fro Dove we do not have an image of her rigged. We are looking to launch tidbit in about 10 days or so I hope we can figure out all the rigging at launching :eek:

[ 03-19-2006, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Jim Mathieson]

Love the Dove project Joe....envey!

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

The work continues

Beautiful spline with caulking bevel epoxied in place.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p6180d058a6c6c906814cf5ad60b079ea/efc1b99e.jpg

A sharp plane makes fast work of fairing the spline to the plank.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p9cde1134a4dcc4b35ac88bd356f58cf8/efc1b967.jpg

Dove gets her first taste of Kirby's finest red lead.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p06699f94807fc3dce98123a3446eb448/efc1b9ab.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p03afd3a5f53cac3ed927f321b69ba4ed/efc1b987.jpg

This is the chewed up garboard before.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid162/pbaae9f9c4dcbb4cbd4ab257bccff29ca/f4accaf0.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid162/p8dcb549a51b4bc518816c9c1dcbae10d/f4accac3.jpg

garboard now

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p947dafac53cf7010f0d7eb73db7c0566/efc1b94f.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p50383439d437eb21a2748bbf1ba8b055/efc1b936.jpg

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Started makin with the pretty smile.gif

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/pd942738a832c8df5faeadb519828bf90/efbea013.jpg

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

What's up no comments no advice I feel like I'm talking to myself over here :D

[dmede]

No advice, I'm a novice myself. But thats a fine looking boat Joe. I can't wait to see her in the water.

BTW, people may not be saying much but I bet, like me, they are all checking this thread for new pics every day! :D

[ 03-22-2006, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

[Tom M.]

Yup, I'm watching Joe. Thanks for posting pics.

[Thorne]

Very nice to see the restoration photographed so well -- great job!

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Getting to the end zone
Garboards are finally in place and calked and they look great. ( I will have photos next week ) The coming is done with a nice detail in the aft end.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/p73061d0f8173e712cf7aee26e0f6dd2f/ef74c37a.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/p37cac5150f45728827b301ba598c88f1/ef74c190.jpg

The deck will be done next week and then we are on to prime and paint. I had to do a little test run on the pain so I set up the rudder to give an Idea of the color scheme. There will not be any other red above the water line except that little part on the rudder I think It makes a nice accent.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/p19f4521dc086c906dd4c928f6a5b0fb2/ef712dbd.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/pecd6ab8189030d0f49c256689857b05a/ef713239.jpg

[pipefitter]

Thats a nice boat. I have been silently watching it over the last yr or so as well.Has that,get you there and get you back look to it. I suppose next we are going to read where you have taken all these new skills and built one someday. You and your partner there have some interesting projects. Thanks for the pictures and updates.It's topics like these that make for a perpetual issue of a real time wooden boat magazine.
For what it's worth,I have some bronze door locksets built by a company called detroit ship or something(with skeleton keys) and the parts that were protected within the door's mortices,look much like the parts you boiled.That looks to be more correct than the polished pieces.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

It rained today so I couldn't go sailing on Tidbit. So what better way to spend a rainy day than go and work on Dove :)

She is coming along even if it is at a glacial pace. But the deck is done and the comings are on. We painted the canvas deck today a nice taupe beige.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid206/p1bb2e738a610ce949f75a35dc1419121/eed296ea.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid206/p949a13a3762cf037f8da5a9a7ba90cf1/eed296b4.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid206/p6c9a320821cf1a320bf9f1844bd3e36d/eed2964e.jpg

I cant wait to get to paint and varnish

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid206/peffdfab4f190ff6e98caec7dcea35518/eed295e7.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid206/p68f24a9a2213234955240ba544ed0933/eed295b1.jpg

Lookin crisp

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid206/pe5b3a7629be04879916aee869c5e4f16/eed2958c.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid206/pf8582e8ae330f6e5e81b1b804f26fa00/eed29568.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid206/p2a942929c03370fcd89efba159f333e8/eed29504.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid206/p0006fce35cec18ac6ce4dc8ba1c5eb68/eed294ca.jpg

Different exposure

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid206/pf9c6075064e959e906f9fb579a13a7ef/eed29496.jpg

Twas a good day for Dove.

The sails are done and being shipped cant wait to see the whole boat rigged and ready.

[Farmer Diddley]

Joe, I've been following your threads for a while now... and I have to tell you I am green with envy... green with envy for the two beautiful boats you have... and probably more envious of the all the time you seem to have to sail and to work on your boats... how do you do it??? :confused:

[botebum]

Looking great, Joe. Slow and steady will get it right every time.

Doug

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Joe, I've been following your threads for a while now... and I have to tell you I am green with envy... green with envy for the two beautiful boats you have... and probably more envious of the all the time you seem to have to sail and to work on your boats... how do you do it??? :confused:


I think he might be on a "pension" of sorts;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid206/p6791196d17644e416e0f2d24b07c9940/eee65f0d.jpg

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Ok a lil update I have found a great way to make oak look like mahogany and more important look as good or better than the original finish on Dove.

I used Winsor Newton Burnt Sienna oil paint. Dabbed a bit on an rag and rubbed it in. WHOA what a beautiful finish I tested it on the taff rail and on the stern cleat. WHOA lookin good. Just did the rub rails and tomorrow I'm doing the coaming. Sets oof the deck beautifully.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p76a9601313a8c8bbb50801ad21794c87/ee9aadaf.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pb5167d7ab951432fd86590337ca8f87b/ee9aad5a.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p9cc6b11110ac4232a217eed5788aa771/ee9aacce.jpg

I even mixed some into plumbers putty to make my own mahogany bedding compound ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p7e92577591d7f383aaf50a77f39691d6/ee9a8f3e.jpg

[geeman]

Not Bad for a paperpusher LOL,lookin good

[katiedobe]

Joe, kudos on your restoration. I just finished reading all three pages. Interesting history located here.

I comend you on your patience and devotion. Those skills are ones that I am learning. It is good to see that it works for others. It give me inspiration. I want to develop good boatbuilding skills and the "devil is in the details" and taking time is always the best thing to do. Rushing a boatbuilding job sucks. I was installing a samson post on the QE16 I am building and I did not take a moment and step back and check plumb and now I have a bow samson post that is bolted and epoxied in and is bulletproof, but tilted at an angle. We can't have that now can we? So I am pondering what to do. I am thinking of cutting it off and living without it. Better to hide an unfixable mistake than to live with it. All this because I rushed the glue process. Keep up the good work.

[katiedobe]

Joe, where did you get that idea? It sounds good to me. I too do not have a marine hardware store within driving distance. (My choice).

What do you other guys think?

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Joe, where did you get that idea? It sounds good to me. I too do not have a marine hardware store within driving distance. (My choice).

What do you other guys think?


Well Oyster Mike who knows a fair bit about boat building ;) says that plumbers putty is about the same as marine grade Dolphinite.

I used plumber's putty to bed the CB cap on the Salisbury skiff. It worked JUST like Dolphinite even better because of its thicker putty consistency. Also if you work it and kneed it before applying it thins up substantially. I think its a perfect solution for this application. You can always go back and re work the putty it's not permanent which is a good thing for a bedding compound to be.

[Paul Girouard]

Ok a lil update I have found a great way to make oak look like mahogany and more important look as good or better than the original finish on Dove.





http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pb5167d7ab951432fd86590337ca8f87b/ee9aad5a.jpg



I even mixed some into plumbers putty to make my own mahogany bedding compound ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p7e92577591d7f383aaf50a77f39691d6/ee9a8f3e.jpg

Joe nice job although the oak just looks like oak stained Mahog color , Mahog. grain is not that wide / wild looking .

The puddy idea is good :) , the stain shouldn't upset the puddy I wouldn't think. Not sure , never done it and I'm not a chemist.

Still it looks like Oak stained Mahog. to me;)

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Joe nice job although the oak just looks like oak stained Mahog color , Mahog. grain is not that wide / wild looking .

The puddy idea is good :) , the stain shouldn't upset the puddy I wouldn't think. Not sure , never done it and I'm not a chemist.

Still it looks like Oak stained Mahog to me;)

Still it looks like Oak stained Mahog to me too ;)
Which is better than Oak NOT stained Mahog IMHOP. :D

Also as said previously the Oak was originally stained Mahog, and Im trying to keep the original look in all of the bright work. Besides I think on this boat varnished oak would look like crap. Again JMHOP ;)

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Ok so I finished the coaming & rub rail and Man-O-Man its starting to look totaly sweet stained Mahog ;). Next week the boat comes back into MY shop for final painting. Yippee :D

I forgot to bring my Leica so I took these photos with my camera phone.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p82c072f99ed8556c65752d9f97c24bd0/ee96621c.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pb8ba1432c321fae50c2c54fa95abcf45/ee966209.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p386b86533b86175fcd250494877b326e/ee9661f0.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pebc5aac74fcb19d9db0f5c6f78757918/ee9661da.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pf3d9c0c92cd1f3b4f44107fa509bbaa9/ee9661c6.jpg

Now I cant wait to see how it all looks after 12 coats of varnish sitting in the water ;)

[katiedobe]

Wunnerful.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Ya know what I like best ? Is that we sistered the deck frames and rebuilt the camber in the fordeck back to the original plans. It makes the whole deck and coaming have that loverly curve that just set off the sheer so perfectly.

[geeman]

She's gonna be a pretty boat Joe.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

She's gonna be a pretty boat Joe.

Yea she has a lot of old time yachtyness to her. She was built for show, with lots of incredible details and bronze jewelry.

[Russ Manheimer]

Joe,

She's looking great. Thanks for saving her and keeping her as built/designed. She has that no nonsense Atkin look that doesn't need any embellishment.

The dark stain on the rails and coaming may help with the dings that are inevitable, and particularly noticeable on varnished oak.

Looking forward to seeing her grace the " American Rhine (http://www.monacellipress.com/bookpages/HudsonRiver.html)".

Russ

[geeman]

Joe should be feeling pretty selfish by now ,if so let me know and I'l be glad to take her off yer hands LOL

[Phil Heffernan]

Joe, I've been following your threads for a while now... and I have to tell you I am green with envy... green with envy for the two beautiful boats you have... and probably more envious of the all the time you seem to have to sail and to work on your boats... how do you do it??? :confused:

Having a partner helps ;)

Two heads are better than one, I hear...;)

[JimD]

Sure is looking good.:cool:

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Dove returned home today

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p9178d9da12dc5b6ffea8e2b9ac3ddb15/ee81420f.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/pc90a63365a5bf7745c4c984fbd84a458/ee81423c.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p930ee92d6ac8325c2851882ed01813a4/ee8141b1.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p130d96da5d0e0ea0d4b81bab32eb7d50/ee81418f.jpg

Time to prime and paint :D :D :D

[StevenBauer]

Great news! Hey, that deck looks nice....

Steven

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Don't it ;)

There is a lot of structural work that has been done thats hard to see in photos or even in person, but it make the boat so much more seaworthy and honest to shape of the plans. Now the work will be cosmetic which will make it look like a the work is speeding up fast.

Also I can work at JCSOH pace and any time I want to, which will have the boat looking totally different by tomorrow ;)

[geeman]

Shes gonna be somethin else,,great lil boat

[Klabi]

For the record bronze cleaning NOW as follows:

#1 LOOK at part.
Using only white linen gloves to prevent oil from my skin penetrating the soft bronze
#2 220 Sand paper light sanding
#3 BRASS Wire disk on a drill
#4 buffing wheel with a small amount of compound polish.
#5 place in hermetically sealed marked lexan display case
#6 Take a sip of beer
#7 make complex casting drawings to have NEW bronze parts fabricated
#8 Only use the new cast parts on the actual boat cause the originals are far too precious and should only be used for display purposes.

NO Steel wool
NO Steel wire
NO WD40 that was Bob's method I just agreed with him on the aging and patina, but I would not dismiss his advice he knows his stuff.
NO solvent of any type.

[ 03-06-2005, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Moin moin Joe,
thank you for this thread with so many pics!!!!
Its very intressting for me (think about my smal english!!)!
Very great documentation and good work.
Hope you have a lot of fun with the nice little boat.
The method with the bronce, i think is very good, because i like the point #6;)

Nice Day and Tschüss Heiko

Edit: ps. A good adress for you is www.Toplicht.de (http://www.Toplicht.de) . You can order the catalogue(its in english too), it is a gold mine for old ship restauration!

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

So taking Steven's advice on getting yer kids to help paint, Tess & I primed the topsides.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p67af51183d8a8c72fdf6a4af475d5315/ee80a326.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/pe4f19c516cff0b7cb3f417d9347219e2/ee80a246.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p539d756b9e5c57d68fe341fd20ff4bf3/ee80a2af.jpg

The kids does pretty good eh ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/pa8c3ddcda5ea38550dd16dc7f108f3ed/ee80a179.jpg

[StevenBauer]

Nice job Tess! :D

I haven't even shared the best part of having the girls help. Mary and Celie tipped the first coat, Holly tipped the second coat. Then, while I was at work yesterday Holly and Celie rolled and tipped the third coat! :) By the time I came home the boat was done. They took all the masking tape off and everything. Now it's ready to flip and we can start the inside. :)

Steven

[Paul Girouard]

Nice job Tess! :D

I haven't even shared the best part of having the girls help. Mary and Celie tipped the first coat, Holly tipped the second coat. Then, while I was at work yesterday Holly and Celie rolled and tipped the third coat! :) By the time I came home the boat was done. They took all the masking tape off and everything. Now it's ready to flip and we can start the inside. :)

Steven

Great job to all hands/ both post's :) Steven photo's :) Please:cool:

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Lookin good Tess!!!

Beauty boat Joe... that little lady (both of them)has class.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Moving right along. I really like this color scheme. Tomorrow I will put on a white boot stripe. Red White & Blue, hey maybe we will have a July 4th launch.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p20d4117333ce764f0680b0d118773963/ee7d4912.jpg

Still have to attach the bow brass stem rubrail

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p743b53ca385df0253ed5639fa18d4764/ee7d48b7.jpg

And the interior still needs painting

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/pc2f1da0efe51dc4c0e671c3249014f21/ee7d4838.jpg

Im going to do a gold cove stripe with a small Dove detail at the bow end.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p740b32a97846fe7daa36741407672de0/ee7d4817.jpg

Wow what a lil paint can do eh ? ;)

[StevenBauer]

Lookin' good, Joe. :) I just went to page one of this thread and it made me wonder about Nora Lee. She hasn't posted since last November. Anyone know what's up? She'd get a kick out of these pics. Any North Carolinians?

Steven

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Ill give her a holler.

Wow From this

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid158/p35358c2051d0f912ebabc76bfba8eb0a/f51d4644.jpg

to this

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p740b32a97846fe7daa36741407672de0/ee7d4817.jpg

What you don't see in these photos was the enormous amount of hull repair and stiffening. Like, sistering the deck beams to make the foredeck camber back to the original plans. Fixing the garboard and replacing the gussets and pulling the whole boat back into alignment. Lots of those things are never seen as much as felt. I like knowing when she is sailing she is going to be stiff and harder and structurally more sound than the day she was launched.

Still more pretty to do ;)

[Russ Manheimer]

Joe,

What a joy. Spars and sails ready? Seems like its time for a driveway sail!

Thanks for sharing.

Russ

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Joe.... WOW!!!! She looks awesome buddy..:D:D:D:D:D

[JimD]

This question probably already asked and answered but what material will the sails be made from?

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

This question probably already asked and answered but what material will the sails be made from?

Gamble and Hunter have made a a set of Egyptian Cotton colored dacron with one set of reef points per sail. They used a smaller panels more in keeping with the era of the boat.

[JimD]

Gamble and Hunter have made a a set of Egyptian Cotton colored dacron with one set of reep points per sail. They used a smaller panels more in keeping with the era of the boat.

Cotton coloured sails oughta look awesome and I hear Gamble and Hunter have a solid reputation. But you might want to consider using reef points instead of reep points as reep points can sometimes get snared on your gronicles, especially in a hard blow.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Boot stripe on .

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p11ac40212468a23f6c73c622bb697aca/ee7c6983.jpg

[katiedobe]

Don't forget to paint that trailer too. It would be a shame to carry such a beauty on a pumpkin. It needs a lovely paint job too.

[LLaver]

Hi Joe,

Thanks for this thread, I have been watching for some time and have been enjoying the updates.

I like the choice of colours, keeping in touch with the original Aussie theme of green and gold, except that now you have gone with our actual flag colours of red, white and blue :p .

I'm looking forward to the pics of her sailing and hope you and Phil have as much fun sailing Dove as you do Tid Bit.

I only hope I can have my two (make that three, forgot the wife) girls help me with the painting in a few years when they grow up a little. ( youngest is 2 1/2 weeks next is 18 months and I won't say how old the wife is :D )

Cheers

Lee

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

What do you guys say 4th of JULY Launch ?

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/pa02e22fbf81f376b8563b912bfdca333/ee67ec23.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p444980c1b540f3adb66a459838e75717/ee67ebb0.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p107ebd51093e93371b483a06b657d6bf/ee67ebd9.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p4a49cb68225427108b0f94f7e7633519/ee67eb87.jpg

[StevenBauer]

How about a July 2nd launch? Then I could be there with my whole family. :) We'll be on our way home from Ocean City.

Steven

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Oh great Steven I don't even know if I can get her in the water for the 4th and you want to move it TWO days ;)

Hey get in contact with Russ he want's to schedule a sail on Sjogin, I might join ya ;)

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Ok I got an interior paint problem.

I just painted the inside of Dove the same color as the inside of Tidbit. Interlux Grand Banks Beige. I'm not crazy about the color on Dove. It looks way to close to the deck color and is kinda dull. I know there will be lots of bright mahogany thwarts and such. But Im toying with doing a creamy white to brighten it up a bit. But worried about dirt and glare. I definitely do not want to go back to the battleship gray she was originally. So any interior color suggestions would be appreciated.

Oh almost forgot photos ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p10b40916d28e41f48fd8f1c5b0802ccc/ee527ebc.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p0155ffbab5c7b1fc3878e248c2601a98/ee527e81.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/pee92fdf1e7292504ce3b4b06cf83d1b7/ee527e1c.jpg

Here is a lil test

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p4338e9aea2dc26fe736adfdfd74113c6/ee527e4b.jpg

[Mrleft8]

I think it looks good. Maybe the floor boards could be a brighter color...... Sky blue?

[geeman]

How about a very light tan shade of some sort?

[Paul Girouard]

That lighter color will be blinding if the sun ever shines on the east coast again .

I'd just do something "different " with the floor brd colors , to break up the cream color some what. Not sure what color but it wouldn't be white . G/L , lookin good BTW;)

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

All ready for the dance she just needs her new dress.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pea85a6c16c7e8a3eadd4e8c770b31801/ee26d2c4.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p43d38364d9cafa1da6f67ea543cef100/ee26d125.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p0619e0f88654e98f324cb6aff617d252/ee26ca15.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p72caf49e7ecc117ae1d5dd73afa1c560/ee26c875.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p68efd9cd51b9596b8614d64700cd2801/ee26c7e9.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p3bfc57fb57b1d3a5c5d3a5fcfcda4783/ee26c6a2.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pb346f01581ef91ba39da2182f7528b05/ee26cd44.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p6334e3c0a03d6c8e11b9ec746dab7e88/ee26cc9e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pe2eefcbfe5964465a1e65839335ed52e/ee26c582.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pb8cbfcb71bbe94744fe6153c70b26031/ee26c44a.jpg

Ok yea I feel a little like a proud dad on prom night.
And yea, she needs a couple more coats of varnish and little bits tweaked. Oh and all the interior seating. But damn she is starting to come together.

Hurry up Gamble & Hunter we are waiting for her new dress of Egyptian dacron

[dmede]

Thats a lovely boat.

[Russ Manheimer]

Joe,

Dove looks great. I also vote for a darker color for the floorboards. Any soaking going on yet? (Though the high humidity of the last week should help.)

I like the tiller line. Using it you can place your weight at her sweet spot. I know it works on Sjogin

Looking forward to pics of your first sail. Say Hi to Phil for me.

Russ

[JimD]

She looks awesome. Bet she's gonna sail way differnt than Tidbit. Looking forward to her trials.

[Tar Devil]

Can't wait to see her dance on the water!

Looks great, Joe!

Later,

Phil

[StevenBauer]

I thought I'd posted this here but it must have been on the other thread. :)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p2c0dda4e925953dcf1c1a17c7a7b73c7/ee3962b0.jpg

Looking forward to sail trial pics.

Joe, I'm heading back to NJ to install my sister-in-law's kitchen in a month or so. I'd love to sail in Dove on my way home. :)

Steven

[pipefitter]

Sweet!

[Ken Hutchins]

Sweet.:) :) :) :)

[bholderman]

SO here's a dumb question from a know-nothing begginner point of view in regards to a beutiful resoration.

Why is the forward mast "bent?" I realize that its supposed to be that way, but could someone give me some sailboat 101 training?

Cheers,
Brad

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

SO here's a dumb question from a know-nothing beginner point of view in regards to a beautiful restoration.

Why is the forward mast "bent?" I realize that its supposed to be that way, but could someone give me some sailboat 101 training?

Cheers,
Brad

Quick answer on this Brad is, she is not rigged yet. I just stuck the poles in the holes and set it up to photograph. The mizzen doesn't even have the shrouds attached. The main doesn't have the front halyard on. She will be rigged way more balanced when she is done.

Oh and thanks for the heads up on tightening and tuning. It would decently be my proclivity to over tighten and make her sing. On a 1945 wooden boat that would not be ideal. I will keep her loose and tighten a little at a time.

Sails still have not arrived. :(

[bholderman]

Joe,

Thanks for the tutorial. I want to add, again, its a gorgeous thing you're doing, even with the Snow Goose a few weeks back. I grew up in upstate New York, you views of the Hudson bring back a ton of memories, another source of jealousy.

Can't wait to see more progress.

Cheers,
Brad

[katiedobe]

Way to go Joe. She looks beautiful!!! You have done a great job.

[KNOCKABOUT]

Quick answer on this Brad is, she is not rigged yet. I just stuck the poles in the holes and set it up to photograph. The mizzen doesn't even have the shrouds attached. The main doesn't have the front halyard on. She will be rigged way more balanced when she is done.

Oh and thanks for the heads up on tightening and tuning. It would decently be my proclivity to over tighten and make her sing. On a 1945 wooden boat that would not be ideal. I will keep her loose and tighten a little at a time.

Sails still have not arrived. :(

So wheres the tutorial on overtightening old woodies... I need it.http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/vbulletin/upload/images/icons/icon11.gif

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

First let me just say what an outstanding job Gambell & Hunter did on Dove's set of sails. The workmanship and details are well done.

Too late and too HOT to drag the boat out and do a little driveway sailing, but I had to show you all a lil peak ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pa3633a5bab78e3935dc63211d37eb2f6/ee155575.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pa1187ddcfee8bb6c1fee0c5219853685/ee1555ba.jpg

And no that is not just the late afternoon sun making them look that golden cream color. They really are that golden cream color. YUM

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p2e0bfaea70ba1960a8233317b82d238e/ee15562b.jpg

A little plug for a job well done. ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p16b82fe6f92649c18909dc53a7039bc4/ee155731.jpg

One set of reef points more for show than reefing

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pb133ef81e2e8f4aca4124c22dfda364a/ee155790.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p1da84c02a3c6a450e9c7a423dde71811/ee1557e9.jpg

WHOA might be a launch this weekend :D

[paladin]

Joe...just tighten the screws so that the wire is comfortably finger tight....if it has a tendency to bend appreciabbly in either direction, tighten the other side a few turns...work at it slowly and comfortably and you will get there...then you can install the cotter keys and sail tape....also carry the duct tape...it's useful for silencing kibitzers....:D

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Had to just see if the new gown fit her.

Oh and please no comments on the rigging this is totally for photo op only. Lots of work still to do.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p8759e0e1a4b275a060ed7625a6ce07fd/ee119173.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pd4fe21aa773ea50fda545be330d12584/ee118c1c.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p85f8cc9358de3974c7f968325b27eda4/ee118828.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p6f2271749a91784efa9757e51258edad/ee118671.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p059badefbbdb7e0eab08af030e0e3399/ee11854b.jpg

[katiedobe]

Are you really going to wait four days to put her in the water?
You have a lot of self-restraint.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Don't it just look like it's come a Looooong way baby ? ;)

I have to say it's going to be hard to choose. There is just something about Dove, she looks fast and just ..... just .... just ya know just ....;)

[JimD]

Those be fine looking sails. I bet she's gonna feel tender compared to Tidbit.

[John B]

She does look good.

Joe, I REALLY hope you've taken note of Pissedasanewt and Ian Mc re the triatic, because you'll be sloop rigged before you know it otherwise.

edit. wrong dam thread. ah well.You'll read it anyway no doubt.

[Bill Perkins]

Nice stuff . If you're assuming that the reef indicated on the original sail plan is " more for show than reefing" I don't know why . Dove will be less tolerant than Tidbit if over canvassed in a blow . You'll need to prefit and carrry the pendants ; it's just part of the craft of sailing . The guys of the "Real Men Don't Reef "school of sailing would never own a Dove , or a Tid Bit ; too bad for them .