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Nanoose
12-02-2006, 02:17 PM
I may start building the 10 1/2 foot Acorn dinghy...

Is a bandsaw necessary equipment? I built a stitch and glue dinghy last winter using just a jigsaw and am wondering if I can avoid the additional expense (I'd rather buy better wood and nicer fittings).

Thanks for the help!

Dave

Bruce Hooke
12-02-2006, 02:57 PM
I'll second Jim's opinion. Sure a bandsaw would be nice, but not having one will simply mean that you will have to spend a bit more time cleaning up the cuts.

There are two things a bandsaw can do that it is hard to do with other tools:

1. Cut curves in thick pieces of wood. If, for some reason, you need curved cuts in a 3" thick piece of wood, a jigsaw is not going to help much. Fortunately it is pretty rare that you have to make such a cut on a small boat. A big bowsaw, handled with skill, could make the same cut.

2. Resaw boards to make thinner boards. This can be convenient at times, but I got along for years without being able to do this. It often simply means that you can make more efficient use of wood.

Paul Girouard
12-02-2006, 03:07 PM
I'm with Jim and Bruce , bandsaws are way over rated, IMO (which is a aside to what Jim and Bruce said , they're opinion on bandsaws may differ so my agreement with them is the do without part ) . Unless you can spring for a really good one, like a CB75F Hatachi or better , I'd get a good jig saw , Bosch , or maybe that Festool barrel grip one .

Long blades can be had for both saws , so the situation Bruce mentioned is still do able . Or hire it done / rent so time on a good , read expensive , bandsaw . Or check out adult education class's in your area a local high school or comunity college might have just what you'd need in a situation like that.

For a guy to buy a bandsaw that is truely resaw capable you'd need to be in business or have a lot of disposable income for your hobby , IMO , YMMV:)

Nanoose
12-02-2006, 03:11 PM
YMMV??????????

Thanks, guys.

Paul Girouard
12-02-2006, 03:17 PM
YMMV??????????

Thanks, guys.

Your Mileage May Vary. Hey don't feel bad I had to ask awhile back the same question:o

Nanoose
12-02-2006, 03:18 PM
Thanks, Paul.

Paul Girouard
12-02-2006, 03:19 PM
[quote=seayou7]

IMO a poor man can't afford to but cheap tools. I learn my lessons reluctantly.

quote]

Sage advise;) , two aways cost more than one , at least in tools / my experiences:rolleyes:

pipefitter
12-02-2006, 04:06 PM
You don't "need" a bandsaw but they are nice. I have an older Craftsman which is supposedly junk. The junk turned out to be the blades that were available at the home centers(Name Brands) being too thin of steel and once I started getting the thicker blades,tuning the saw's guides to match the blades,day and night difference. Sure I could have done without it but for 75.00 used,how could I go wrong? I build alot of fishing lures and for things like that and other curved work,it just works good and better.With the bandsaw,I am able to utilize smaller pieces of wood,turning them into something more than the waste they would become otherwise.Also,you can cut a pretty severe arc on thinner materials with circular saw faster and nicer than can be done with a bandsaw or jig saw.

Not to say that it is superior or to argue the good points above but there is alot of fun things one can do with a bandsaw. Someone had given me a bunch of clear western red cedar designated for the dumpster and I have since turned it into 2 model boats and about 30 fishing lures most of which I've sold. All the planking and scale dimensional lumber for the models was resawn on my cheap saw.

Jay Greer
12-02-2006, 04:13 PM
In my humble opinion, a bandsaw is the most essential and versitile piece of power equipment a boat builder can have. I would choose that one tool if I were exiled to build a boat where only one power tool would be permitted. Granted, a seasoned and clever builder can make do with no power tools at all. But I consider the bandsaw to be acme of all wood working machines.
JG

JimD
12-02-2006, 04:21 PM
In my humble opinion, a bandsaw is the most essential and versitile piece of power equipment a boat builder can have. I would choose that one tool if I were exiled to build a boat where only one power tool would be permitted. Granted, a seasoned and clever builder can make do with no power tools at all. But I consider the bandsaw to be acme of all wood working machines.
JG

Provided its a good one. As in really good. Few tools more useless than a cheap band saw. Don't ask me how I know this.

JimConlin
12-02-2006, 04:43 PM
In my humble opinion, a bandsaw is the most essential and versitile piece of power equipment a boat builder can have. ...
JG
It depends a lot on what kind of boats you're building. For strip plank boats, large and small, i'd vote for the table saw.

Canoeyawl
12-02-2006, 04:47 PM
I can’t imagine building a boat without a bandsaw…I agree with Jay, that is the one tool I would put before all others.
Bandsaws are sensitive to set-up and I have seen cheap models turn out the same work as the best ones. They are very simple tools and all of them cheap and expensive alike suffer equally from wheel alignment, blade tension, guides set-up incorrectly, and cheap blades. One of the most prolific builders I have known built a hundred boats (at least) with an old (cheap) 12 inch Craftsman bandsaw. He didn't even bother with the side guides...to much trouble!

John Bailey
12-02-2006, 04:48 PM
In my humble opinion, a bandsaw is the most essential and versitile piece of power equipment a boat builder can have. I would choose that one tool if I were exiled to build a boat where only one power tool would be permitted. Granted, a seasoned and clever builder can make do with no power tools at all. But I consider the bandsaw to be acme of all wood working machines.
JG

I agree!

I've only had one for a couple of months, but it get more use than anything else. I learned quickly that almost alll problems were solved with a good, sharp blade. It's a 1948 Delta 14" with a 3/4 hp. motors, so it's not exactly one of the more expensive or best ones out there. I've used it with 5" teak and mahogony very successfully.

That being said, for the project you mentioned, I think a good jigsaw would do just fine.

John

Jay Greer
12-02-2006, 05:02 PM
Provided its a good one. As in really good. Few tools more useless than a cheap band saw. Don't ask me how I know this.

I couldn't agree more! A cheap crappy tool is more of a hindrance than a help! In my tiny home shop I have the first power tool I ever bought for building boats, a ten inch Atlas that was used when I got it. That saw is indistructable and has been a faithful friend through the years. I just don't let it know that I bought a 28" Agazanni for my commercial shop. Band saws are sensitive you know!


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid220/p29e68ddaf68fc28d2d4d0affc76f5951/ebcbbb55.jpg

Ken Hutchins
12-02-2006, 05:09 PM
What Jay said.

Paul Girouard
12-02-2006, 05:11 PM
Your Mileage May Vary.

It's always good to add a caveat, option to tool question and answers . As we see others have different experiences / training / ways to skin that proverbial cat;)

Bob Cleek
12-02-2006, 05:21 PM
Ditto... if you were going to by just one stationary power tool for boatbuilding, it would have to be a bandsaw. Bandsaws do demand tuning and set up time, but once set up, they are wonderful. Because they are simple machines, you CAN get by with a cheap one, if you put decent guides and blades on it. Always buy the best you can afford when it comes to tools. However, you can do okay with an Asian machine when it comes to bandsaws. (And you will note there is virtually no difference between the generic 14" machines.)

You can use a jig saw, but you won't have the control and you won't be able to cut thicker stock very well. Moreover, if you are planking lapstrake, the bandsaw will nearly cut your planking time in half because you can spile one plank on double thick stock, cut it to shape, and then resaw that to produce two identical planks, one for port and one for starboard. Try that with a jig saw!

Ron Carter
12-02-2006, 05:25 PM
Blade selection and setup are essential for decent band sawing. I have a 14" Jet borrowed from a friend who is without a shop temporarily. Darn near useless when it arrived. A good wood slicer blade from Highland hardware and very careful setup and it resaws better than several band mills in the neighborhood. IMO roller guides are over sold and not necessary to get a good cut. A quick release tension lever would be a better investment. I will be buying my own when this one goes home. Is a band saw essential for boat building? No. Would I be without one after having it available? No.

Paul Girouard
12-02-2006, 05:32 PM
You can use a jig saw, but you won't have the control and you won't be able to cut thicker stock very well. Moreover, if you are planking lapstrake, the bandsaw will nearly cut your planking time in half because you can spile one plank on double thick stock, cut it to shape, and then resaw that to produce two identical planks, one for port and one for starboard. Try that with a jig saw!

Can you say flush trimming router bit w/ ballbearing guide ! Ya slower , but I got lots of those:D up cut /down cut/ tpo bearing / bottom bearing .

Again YMMV:D

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-02-2006, 07:07 PM
Jay, my dad has one of those Atlas B/S and it's done a ton of work
I got lucky a few years back and bought a 14 inch Rockwell with the metal cutting gearbox, it will go down to 30 FPM, with the stand and motor for $300.... great saw. I am going to an auction next weekend that has a lot of tools including a 16 inch beaver BS if it goes cheap... hmmm...:)

Tristan
12-02-2006, 07:31 PM
Bandsaws, as has been said, are nice to have, but I've never had one. I've built 10 boats without one, including an 8 ton cutter. My first boat was built with a hammer, hand saw, hatchet, and 1/4 inch drill. I've had a series of jig saws and suggest you get a good one. Most of mine weren't very good.

pipefitter
12-02-2006, 08:40 PM
See the two bandsaws behind my boat?
http://home.earthlink.net/~tigmaster41/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/near1.jpg

The one on the right is the rockwell 14" metal cutting bandsaw with the gear reduc that my boss got and the sears 12" craftsman is on the left that we had initially. It wasn't even operable when I started working for him 7 yrs ago.I have a nearly identical 12" craftsman which was at the shop for 3 years until it started getting abused. Broken cover etc. because it was so much more tuned than the one pictured and everyone would go to mine instead. I since brought it back home when I started building the boat.See all the aluminum structures in the picture?All those copes were cut with the craftsman and we even have a pipe notcher. That craftsman gets used all day every day but I can cut out copes much faster with the bandsaw. Plus,the notcher only cuts slightly past 45º.It's wood cutting blades we use and with 2 fabricators that keep the blade soaped,one blade will last for 2 months.Once you get used to using a tool,you will be adept with it for many purposes.

Jay Greer
12-02-2006, 08:43 PM
The Abaco Schooner "Double Eagle" was, reportedly, first built with an axe, hatchet and adze. I would imagine they snuck in a hand saw and brace & bit after dark.
JG

ssor
12-02-2006, 11:14 PM
I wouldn't take a tea garden in china for my bandsaw if I couldn't replace it.

capt jake
12-02-2006, 11:33 PM
I use my bandsaw all the time. Usally daily. Is it really an absolute; probably not, but I like it. I am keeping my eyes open for an upgrade, though I haven't found the right one yet.

kc8pql
12-02-2006, 11:33 PM
If your building a small stich and glue boat you don't need a bandsaw. If you build big things, it's a very handy thing to have. Like Jay and others, I'd sell a lot of things before I let my bandsaw go. The bigger the better. Mine is just barely enough for some of what I do.

http://i16.tinypic.com/2dsl3pe.jpg

Howard Sharp
12-03-2006, 12:11 AM
The belt on my 16" Grizzly died on me one Sunday, and in desperation I went to the local car parts store, thinking I would find something to get me through until I could buy a "proper" bandsaw belt. (I've spent some time looking for the perfect bandsaw belt - I even bought one of those things that look as if they've been crocheted out of red leather scraps, all in an effort to maximize power, minimize vibration, etc.) Well, I came away with a car V belt - the kind which has notches cut in the V every 1 1/2" or so, and it has transformed the machine. I would say the power has increased by about 50%, and vibration is way down. Obviously the V notches reduce the amount of effort needed to compress the V on small pulleys, but the change is more than I would have thought possible just by changing the belt. Try it.

But before I bought the Grizzly, I built an Oughtred design called a Ptarmigan - about the same size as the Acorn, and my only power tools were a Bosch jigsaw and a 7 1/4" Porter Cable builder's saw with a small fence, which is great for ripping gunwales etc from big oak planks.

Bob Smalser
12-03-2006, 12:22 AM
I may start building the 10 1/2 foot Acorn dinghy...

Is a bandsaw necessary equipment?

Depends whether you're gonna remain in the game.

Building traditional without a bandsaw is a marvelous training event in overcoming the deficiencies of the jig saw....especially when working with thick stock. And when the stock is thicker than even the jig saw blade, a chain saw, scrub and compass planes have gotten me out of a hole more than once. But there's no substitute for shaping a strake in 5/4 then resawing and planing to a matched pair. Otherwise you can make do, although given the choice between a good tablesaw and a good 16" or larger bandsaw, I'd take the bandsaw hands down. Even if I only built furniture.

But if you figure you're gonna build in wood for the rest of your life and you have the space, then now's as good a time as any, because you'll eventually get real tired of that chain saw.

Syed
12-03-2006, 12:37 AM
Bandsaws, as has been said, are nice to have, but I've never had one. I've built 10 boats without one, including an 8 ton cutter. My first boat was built with a hammer, hand saw, hatchet, and 1/4 inch drill. I've had a series of jig saws and suggest you get a good one. Most of mine weren't very good.
"It is not the gun that fights"

Nanoose
12-03-2006, 03:45 AM
I really appreciate all the input on this. In less than a day I've had realy excellent opinions on my question and it's given me much food for thought.

I think Bob's last post asks the question that I'm least sure of i.e whether I'm going to be building in wood for the long term. At this point, I just don't know. I think what I'm going to do is see if I can barter/trade a dinghy for a bandsaw. I've got a decent 10 ft f****glass one that I can swap.

And I have it on really good authority that Santa is going to bring me a really skookum Bosch jigsaw that should get me through the Acorn project.

Thanks so much to all of you for your excellent advice!

Dave

Robert W. Long
12-03-2006, 07:40 AM
Bosch barrel grip jig saw, thumbs up. I have the same bandsaw as kc8pql. it was my first stationary power tool. Can't imagine life without it. It has shaped my 30 year woodworking education more than anything other than working in other guys shops on and off. is a band saw necessary? No. If you get one get a good book on how to tune it. Like many have said here, you can take a piece of crap saw and make it totally usable properly tuned and with a good blade.

Syed
12-03-2006, 07:49 AM
See the two bandsaws behind my boat?
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Etigmaster41/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/near1.jpg


Beautiful piece of work, pipefitter,
Is it in the picture (flash, light etc.) or you have actually toned down the blue so nicely?

djswan
12-03-2006, 10:19 AM
This topic may have unleashed a terrible pain for the entire woodworking world. This is going to be a hard one to fix. I'm praying that my wife never sees this topic. You boatbuilding pro's don't even know what you've done. Look at the question. Where have you heard it before? Is that ________________ tool necessary equipment? I am going to be asked this question later today, when I tell my wife we need a dustless sander. Is that __________________ tool necessary equipment? There is only one answer every time, all the time. Yes, it's necessary to make our lives and the world a better place. Pray for us all. Derek

Jay Greer
12-03-2006, 11:45 AM
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid220/p1f5fbdc4c203483c1d0134734c02ddd1/ebc8512b.jpg

Thats all for me too!

Paul Girouard
12-03-2006, 11:47 AM
This topic may have unleashed a terrible pain for the entire woodworking world. This is going to be a hard one to fix. I'm praying that my wife never sees this topic. You boatbuilding pro's don't even know what you've done. Look at the question. Where have you heard it before? Is that ________________ tool necessary equipment? I am going to be asked this question later today, when I tell my wife we need a dustless sander. Is that __________________ tool necessary equipment? There is only one answer every time, all the time. Yes, it's necessary to make our lives and the world a better place. Pray for us all. Derek

On the sander topic you could do a quick medical google and find the cancer stats for woodworkers / boat builders and add that. "She might want you around longer" angle . If she says no after that you might need to readjust your status / relationship :D

The band saw you'll have to "sell" to her yourself, I not big bandsaw fan. Althought not as worthless as a radial arm saw , a band saw is low on my needs list:D YMMV:D :D

Nanoose
12-03-2006, 12:33 PM
Ask Santa for the barrel grip, not the handle.

All wrapped and ready to go under the tree. :)

Rational Root
12-03-2006, 04:05 PM
I got the Bosch JigSaw (http://davesboat.blogspot.com/2006/11/bosche-gst-135-bce-1590-evsk.html)a short while back & I love it.

However, you cannot cut as accurately with a jigsaw and guide as you can with a sharp plane finely set.

Cut it slightly oversized and fit it with a sharp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scary_sharp)plane.

If you go to cut your second peice from your first with a Router, a straight cutter and a bearing, don't do like I did try to lift the grain (http://davesboat.blogspot.com/2006/12/routers-and-tearout.html)with the router.

Paul Girouard
12-03-2006, 04:46 PM
#1: I got the Bosch JigSaw (http://davesboat.blogspot.com/2006/11/bosche-gst-135-bce-1590-evsk.html)a short while back & I love it.



#2: If you go to cut your second peice from your first with a Router, a straight cutter and a bearing, don't do like I did try to lift the grain (http://davesboat.blogspot.com/2006/12/routers-and-tearout.html)with the router.

#1: Outstanding news :)

#2: Try to budget in / get a spiral flush trimming bit, like this ,

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/orderstatus/html/smarthtml/graphics3/spiralflus56.jpg

link :http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/orderstatus/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_solid.html#spiral_flushtrim_anchor

Less likely to cause a catch , feed rate and direction is not as important but still a climb cut / smaller bite / cut / positive control over both rate and direction are all required. You'll get smooth , clean cuts , less stress on your machine as well.:)

G/L Paul

Lew Barrett
12-03-2006, 05:04 PM
All wrapped and ready to go under the tree. :)

This is the correct and appropriate response. By the way, I used my bandsaw perhaps 10 times today.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-03-2006, 07:44 PM
I tend to buy my tools used.... especially stationary tools. I just went to an auction sale, and bought a stationary sander. It's a 6X48 belt, with a 12 inch disc. It's a chinese one, like the Grizzly one, with a 3/4 hp motor, and a floor stand. I finally bought it for $180.00 .... new they are about 300 up here... but here's the catch.. it came with 42 belts and 62 discs of sandpaper, various grits. The S/P was worth more than the sander. At the same sale, I bought a Beaver cast iron 6 inch jointer, big heavy bugger with the roller extension built in to each end of the table, spare blades, all the wrenches, a floor stand, 1 1/2 horse motor, and dust bin for $100.00. The deals on the old stuff is out there, you just have to fish around.

pipefitter
12-03-2006, 09:16 PM
Beautiful piece of work, pipefitter,
Is it in the picture (flash, light etc.) or you have actually toned down the blue so nicely?

That's actually the color.It's a custom blend arrived at after being misled by a inaccurate color swatch online. I hadn't read the fine print that said,"for accurate color selection,refer to the catalog" It's made from Largo blue and hatteras off white interlux brightsides paint.It gains brilliance in sunlight. Interlux doesn't do custom colors and their selection is somewhat limited.